Possible to control vs quit?

Old 10-10-2007, 08:40 AM
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Possible to control vs quit?

Hi everyone. I'm new here & new to the whole drinking 'problem' so please bear with me (sorry fo the length). I have a live-in bf whom I love very very much, but the further into the relationship we get the more I am realizing he has some sort of drinking 'problem'. Since day one I knew he liked to drink... but certain actions & incidents over the past year are really making his drinking become a big problem not only in his life, but in our relationship... & I'm not quite sure what to do.

Now I have honestly never known an 'alcoholic' so maybe I am just fooling myself... but my impression of alcoholism is an actual dependency ... whether it be to get you through the day, or deal with a difficult situation, or to escape from some reality, or the fact that your body phsyically needs it. I think an alcoholic would drink almost on a daily basis and/or go through withdrawal symptoms if they don't, try to hide their drinking from their loved ones, etc. My bf on the other hand can go a week or a month without drinking, he's never needed alcohol to get through something, & doesn't "crave" it. He very rarely drinks at home unless we have company, there has been plenty of times where there is no alcohol in the house & he's been fine with that. He's never once tried to hide the fact that he's drinking. So to me (us) the problem does not appear to be the alcohol itself... but

A) the decisions he makes when he does drink: He wouldn't touch drugs sober, but did a line once when he was drunk & a few times smoked pot when he was drunk... in all cases he blacks out & spends the next three days feeling guilty; there have been a couple of nights where he just didn't come home - didn't call, didn't answer my calls or texts, nothing - I wouldn't know where he was until the next day. Mind you I lose sleep over it, I've missed work because of it, & I go out of my mind all night because I have no idea if he's dead or alive. In our relationship that has happened 4 times... & thats 4 times more than enough. He gets so wrapped up in his having fun that he doesn't even think to call, doesn't check his phone, or whatever... & yes he's lost his phone twice & credit card 3 times.

B) the inability to stop once he starts: there is no 'couple of beers' with him. He may mean well when he heads out - but its like once he gets a few in him his brain stops participating & his hands automatically keep feeding his mouth alcohol. Also, the bars closing doesn't always mean the nights over... it means grabbing beer at the gas station & drinking till 7 or 8 in the morning. And yes if its Sunday football night he will miss work the next day or be late.

C) although he won't admit it he enjoys being hte 'coolest guy in america' (yes tons of people adore him cause he is such a likeable guy) and he cares too much what other people think of him. He has actually told me that he can't turn down a drink that someone buys for him or can't say no to shots if all the guys are doing them because it will make him look like a little b**ch.

He actually got to the point where he no longer wanted me to come out with him because I would always want to leave early (his definition of early was anytime before he was ready... which was never), or I would tell him he's had enough when he could physically keep going for hours more. It was like I rained on his 'drinking' parade.... He's never been physically abusive & only one time did he speak to me disrespectfully & that was because we needed to be somewhere early in the morning the next day yet he wanted to keep drinking and not go - but he apologized profusely the next day. We argue because although he doesn't treat me 'badly' I still feel disrepected because when the opportunity arises I feel like he puts his drinking before me.

Like I said... maybe I am fooling myself... but we talk about it enough to know that he doesn't want to stop entirely and I can't blame him for that. We're young, we have a lot of friends, and like I said in the beginning he likes drinking. So I guess the questions are:

A) Am I a fool for thinking that there is a way for him to learn to control his drinking without having to quit entirely? I have a difficult time accepting the fact that this is permanent because 95% of the time drinking is not an issue and things are great.

B) Are there resources out there to help people control their drinking without quitting? We have talked about him seeing a psychiatrist to try to get to the root of why he can't seem to control it. Are there people who specialize in helping someone control this instead of places like AA which will require him to stop altogether?

If I am fooling myself then I fear it may be the end of the relationship because he won't quit entirely but I can't stay with him if he doesn't change his drinking habits. I keep telling myself that losing me may be enough to change him but at the same time can't in my heart bring myself to walk away just yet.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:59 AM
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You just described my marriage about 20 years ago. My husband was always the "fun guy." Everybody liked him and he would go out of his way to be the good guy to his friends. For me, it got a lot worse, never better. I often wondered if the reason I got all the emotional and verbal abuse later on was because he had no where else to go with it. After all, he couldn't be angry with his friends, now, could he? I'm now 45, a single mom of a 15yo daughter and 10yo son, and sometimes I wish I could have all those years back.................

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Old 10-10-2007, 09:09 AM
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You described my husband 30 years ago, before he entered rehab and remained sober for 14 years. You then described him 5 years ago when he relapsed. Now, his only friends are drunks like him, the true ones don't want to know him. Our marriage was great 95% of the time when he first picked up, his drinking was the only problem, then as years and drinking progressed (and it ALWAYS does!), the marriage was regressing from 95% to 85% to 50% to 0%. And yes, they can control it - very much so to your eyes - while it appears to you that they are not drinking they are hiding it and the empties and while you smell it on their breath, they will make you feel like you're the crazy one. And if he did quit drinking, there is ALWAYS that RELAPSE hanging over your head - ALWAYS!!!! If I had known this when I married my husband (he was sober a while by then), I would NEVER EVER have married him. Needless to say, I am in the process of trying to find an attorney for a divorce right now (read my post on how expensive they are!), and we are still living in the same house, he's drunk and denying it every single moment (although slurring his words), telling me I'm crazy and my life has become sheer HELL!!!! Please don't let this happen to you.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
I have a difficult time accepting the fact that this is permanent because 95% of the time drinking is not an issue and things are great..
This jumped out at me because I said the same thing about my ex seven years ago. I rationalized her problem was not bad enough as long as it was only occasionally, and for a few years it was. But the problem got worse and at the same time my tolerance for it decreased. By the time I had enough... I was sick and tired of having a gut full of being sick and tired. At that point there was no changing my mind as to what had to happen.

We're divorced.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:42 AM
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Cannot Be Controlled

Here's what I went through. My boyfriend was trying to stay clean from hard drugs. He did this, but at the same time, was smoking weed and drinking beer sometimes. He couldn't just drink one beer. He couldn't just smoke one joint. He lost his job for this. He neglected me and his kids. He then got into this exercise trip and would go running for hours to overcome the cravings. He was sick a lot. He couldn't be around people. All he wanted to do was stay at home with me, eat, watch TV, have sex. No going out. Not even a walk on the beach and we live a block from the beach. In the end, he was off in his own little world, trying to "control" his habit. Meanwhle whatever mood he was in became the whole mood of the house. And I am working, paying the bills, dealing with whatever it takes to survive and feeling very tired and down. When I told him he needed to go to NA and solve his problem, he agreed, but did not go. I finally exploded after so many years of resentment and sorrow and kicked him out. Now he is in the street getting high and no one can convince him to change his life. This leads me to believe that no they cannot control any of this and if it looks like they are addicted then they are. And those of us who love them are left feeling lost and sad. You will not lose your bf in the future, you already have lost him. You need to wonder if you ever had him with you at all. The drugs and alcohol take up the most time and space, no matter how much they love you, they can't go all the way. Is this what you want?
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:46 AM
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Wow... thanks for your (quick) replies, and I am sorry for what each of you have had to go through. As I'm sure you all realize I'm trying to make sense of things in my head right now and I'm trying to make some decisions... so forgive me if I seem to be rationalizing where I shouldn't.

LaTeeDa and queenteree... in both of your cases it sounds horrible, bitter, and regretful. Fortunately enough I am not in a 20-30 year situation, no marraige, kids or home are involved (we live together, but I own the place). While I can understand the pain you've both gone through - I'm not in that deep... yet. I have refused talks of marraige, kids and purchasing a home together due to the issue we have at hand. Honestly the whole marraige and kids thing was something I never wanted before him - couldn't care less if I had either before him. Now while I do want it with him.. I want it with the "95% of the time" him.. and if I can't have I won't miss it - so before anyone tries to convince me I'm wasting my time please note that the scare tactics aren't going to work on me... it might be unfortunate but its true. I've never loved anyone before him, so if something in him made me love for the first time then its something worth fighting for. If it is a fight I lose then at least I can walk away and say I tried... but I will walk away if it comes down to it. If I have problems like this now why would I enter into a more permanent situation and subject myself to that. I am not trying to convince myself "oh he will change" - I am at a point where I actually need to SEE change otherwise I'm gone. Of course he could get 'better' then relapse later - but nothing in life is a guarantee is it.

queenteree... again, while I sympathize with what you've gone and are going through - but again please try to be objective, read my issue at hand and see the questions I am posting. I understand you are very hurt - but please don't try to convince me that because what one person did another will do. He is NOT hiding it from me - a) he has this distinct smell about him when he has even one drink I can smell it on him and not once did he tell me he hadn't been drinking but I smelt otherwise and b) we are literallly together ALL the time with the exception of our work hours and the times when I already KNOW he's going out drinking (i.e. Sunday football). Here is someone who told me he did a line that one time, and told me that he smoked pot when he was drinking even knowing how dead set against drugs I am... can you honestly tell me he's open to me when he screws up about some things but not others?

Jazzman... if you don't mind my asking was it a situation where you tolerated it because it was only occasional and left to its own devices it worsened? Or did you/she/both come to the conclusion that she needed help and was help pursued?

The reason I ask this is because he realizes that he screws up (yes I'm sure they always do) - and it kills me inside because I can see the hurt in his eyes, I can see the disappointment he has in himself, and I can see how much he regrets putting me through this. We've both come to the conclusion that he needs some type of help...
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:48 AM
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Welcome to SR sheshe, glad you're here!

Try to read the stickys here first. Al-Anon meetings and open AA meetings will help you learn all you can.

Bottom line is it doesn't matter if he is an alcoholic or not. What matters is are YOU living the life you want?

Your BF sounds like my husband 20 years ago, too, including the incidents you describe. Over those years, it went from bad to worse to divorce. Like LTD, I sometimes wish I had those years back.

Edit: I just read your reply - I can relate even more, as you sound exactly as I did all those years ago. Today my life is joyous - because I am not concentrating on someone else's behaviors, no matter how fun he might have been (less so as the years went by) or the hurt I saw in his eyes.

Last edited by denny57; 10-10-2007 at 09:52 AM. Reason: read latest post
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by acuera View Post
This leads me to believe that no they cannot control any of this and if it looks like they are addicted then they are. And those of us who love them are left feeling lost and sad. You will not lose your bf in the future, you already have lost him. You need to wonder if you ever had him with you at all. The drugs and alcohol take up the most time and space, no matter how much they love you, they can't go all the way. Is this what you want?
Again wow... please allow me to ask some questions. First question: At what point is a drug/alcohol classified as an addiction? For example as a smoker I CRAVE cigarettes - I wake up and the first thing I want to do is smoke, if I am forced to go a while (i.e. a flight) without a cigarette I go nuts and it becomes all I think about it (yes I'm looking into Allan Carr lol)... doesn't that sound like an addiction? My bfs drinking is NOTHING like that! Like I said he can go weeks or a month without touching the stuff... our house has been without alcohol plenty of times and unless he had already been out drinking he won't even look to see if there is any... Does that sound like an addiction?

Secondly, how do you mean I've already lost him? This is what's really confusing me and I'm sorry if I'm on the defense here - but my bf is currently not doing anything of the harsh things that have been described so far.. he's admitted the problem - don't they say that's the first step?

In all honesty I'm troubled here... it sounds like all hope is lost, and it sounds like people are no longer willing to give other people a chance? Is this really what its come to... a lost cause, run now, they're all the same, etc?
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
so before anyone tries to convince me I'm wasting my time please note that the scare tactics aren't going to work on me...
I'm sorry you feel that sharing the story of what happened in my life is a scare tactic. I know how you feel. Your relationship is different. The love you have for each other is different. Just because it gets progressively worse for others doesn't mean it will for you (or him). I know exactly how you feel because I once felt the same way.

The best thing you can do is learn. Learn about addiction, learn about enabling and codependence. Most of all learn about yourself and what drives you. I didn't just randomly happen to fall madly in love with an alcoholic. In a way it was destined, like pieces of a puzzle that fit perfectly together.

I'm just starting to learn about myself and what I want my life to look like. It's the best thing I've ever done for myself.

L
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by denny57 View Post
Bottom line is it doesn't matter if he is an alcoholic or not. What matters is are YOU living the life you want?

Your BF sounds like my husband 20 years ago, too, including the incidents you describe. Over those years, it went from bad to worse to divorce. Like LTD, I sometimes wish I had those years back.

Edit: I just read your reply - I can relate even more, as you sound exactly as I did all those years ago. Today my life is joyous - because I am not concentrating on someone else's behaviors, no matter how fun he might have been (less so as the years went by) or the hurt I saw in his eyes.
Thank you denny.. and everyone else I'm sorry if I sound defensive, but I felt like your anger and resentment was being directed as an attack on me when all I really expected is some type of motivational words as denny provides here.

Denny - yes and no, 95% of the time I'm happy with the life I have. It's those few times here and there that his drinking bothers me that I am not happy... so I'm not quite sure where that leaves me if that makes sense.

Maybe I am fooling myself, and as Jazzman pointed out it is very possible... but it really is just 5% or so of the time that this is a problem. I understand queenteree said that 95% will go to 85% etc - but is it wrong of me to feel like I can't justify giving up just yet if there is so much more good than bad?

Has anyone recovered from a situation like this at all? Has anyone had a control vs quit situation that ended positively?

Everyone.. thanks again, really.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
I'm sorry you feel that sharing the story of what happened in my life is a scare tactic. I know how you feel. Your relationship is different. The love you have for each other is different. Just because it gets progressively worse for others doesn't mean it will for you (or him). I know exactly how you feel because I once felt the same way.

The best thing you can do is learn. Learn about addiction, learn about enabling and codependence. Most of all learn about yourself and what drives you. I didn't just randomly happen to fall madly in love with an alcoholic. In a way it was destined, like pieces of a puzzle that fit perfectly together.

I'm just starting to learn about myself and what I want my life to look like. It's the best thing I've ever done for myself.

L
replies coming so fast I can't keep up. LaTeeDa - please forgive me I didn't mean to be offensive, and I certainly did not mean to undermine the story of what you went through. It's not that I think our love or relationship is different.. I just think people are different in general. I am realistic enough to realize that I could very well be fooling myself but it would kill me to not try... and I would hope that my head will continue to be strong in that I will get away before it gets too deep. But like you've said - you thought the same way once...

I am trying to learn about addiction - and I will explore enabling and codependence. And I have been considering Alanon. But why can't I shake the fact that people are different - both mentally, genetically, etc? For all the people who didn't change or get better aren't there people who did?
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:09 AM
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Controlled drinking is possible for someone who does not have an alcohol dependency or addiction. Only your BF can really judge whether he has that sort of a problem.

One thing I can say is that if someone's drinking is causing problems in their life or in relationship, there is a drinking problem. Only you can decide if your BF's drinking is causing you problems. And just as only the A can do anything about their problem, only those who live with or love an A can do something about the way we react to the drinking problem.

No one in here is going to tell you to give up. But we do try to focus on ourselves rather than the As in our lives. We all know we cannot change them. We change change ourselves and the way we react the the behaviors that cause us problems.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
Jazzman... if you don't mind my asking was it a situation where you tolerated it because it was only occasional and left to its own devices it worsened?
It worsened.
Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
Or did you/she/both come to the conclusion that she needed help and was help pursued?...
This comment implies to me that you picture the two of you sitting down and having a real heart felt conversation and he walks away devoted to a plan to avoid a bad ending type story.

Yes my ex admitted she had a problem and sought out treatment. Long story short, 3 rehabs later, 2 DUIs, Jail time, 2 totaled vehicles, lost of job/jobs, lost her kids (they don't want anything to do with her)... yes help was pursued but she's still drinking her life away. Not a scare tactic, just my story.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:14 AM
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I think people recover all the time. Something I had to think about was this: my situation was pretty darn bad if I was seeking out help on the internet. So it was MY problem, not his. Attending Al-Anon really helped me with this. I also went to open AA meetings. If you're willing, try six meetings - try to listen with an open heart and mind and you may find many of the answers you are seeking.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Barbara52 View Post
Controlled drinking is possible for someone who does not have an alcohol dependency or addiction. Only your BF can really judge whether he has that sort of a problem.

One thing I can say is that if someone's drinking is causing problems in their life or in relationship, there is a drinking problem. Only you can decide if your BF's drinking is causing you problems. And just as only the A can do anything about their problem, only those who live with or love an A can do something about the way we react to the drinking problem.

No one in here is going to tell you to give up. But we do try to focus on ourselves rather than the As in our lives. We all know we cannot change them. We change change ourselves and the way we react the the behaviors that cause us problems.
Thanks, I guess the key here is for him to figure out if it is a dependency or an addiction first and that's where I'm wondering if therapy will help.. if so are there therapists who specialize with this sort of thing or would any therapist do?

There is definitely a drinking problem because it does cause problems in our home, in our relationship... no matter how far and few between, it still happens and each time its the same argument. When it does happen it does cause me problems... and right now I am reacting to it with anger. You're right I do need to focus on myself more but I'm having a very difficult time of thinking of myself regardless of him because I've gotten so used to associating everything I think, do, see, etc with him.

acurea... you said he's lost already. Honestly I feel like I'm the one who's lost.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:19 AM
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I consider my situation to have ended positively, but he had to quit. Had he tried to control it, it never would have worked. Had I tried to control it, it never would have worked either! There has to be a bottom, and if his life is good 95% of the time, that might not happen soon. It could just continue to go downhill...85%.....75%, til there really is a bottom and you progressively suffer, more and more.....

I was in an Al Anon meeting recently where somone talked about the analogy of the frog and the pot....If you put a frog in a pot of cold water, put it on the stove and heat it up until it boils, the frog will stay in the water until it is cooked to death. But if you drop a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will jump out immediately (although, I'm sure, a little scathed!). I wouldn't want you to be the first frog....
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
I've never loved anyone before him, so if something in him made me love for the first time then its something worth fighting for. If it is a fight I lose then at least I can walk away and say I tried... but I will walk away if it comes down to it. If I have problems like this now why would I enter into a more permanent situation and subject myself to that. I am not trying to convince myself "oh he will change" - I am at a point where I actually need to SEE change otherwise I'm gone. Of course he could get 'better' then relapse later - but nothing in life is a guarantee is it.

queenteree... again, while I sympathize with what you've gone and are going through - but again please try to be objective, read my issue at hand and see the questions I am posting. I understand you are very hurt - but please don't try to convince me that because what one person did another will do. He is NOT hiding it from me - a) he has this distinct smell about him when he has even one drink I can smell it on him and not once did he tell me he hadn't been drinking but I smelt otherwise and b) we are literallly together ALL the time with the exception of our work hours and the times when I already KNOW he's going out drinking (i.e. Sunday football). Here is someone who told me he did a line that one time, and told me that he smoked pot when he was drinking even knowing how dead set against drugs I am... can you honestly tell me he's open to me when he screws up about some things but not others?

The reason I ask this is because he realizes that he screws up (yes I'm sure they always do) - and it kills me inside because I can see the hurt in his eyes, I can see the disappointment he has in himself, and I can see how much he regrets putting me through this. We've both come to the conclusion that he needs some type of help...
I, too, loved my AH so much, it was worth fighting for, and I thought if I lose the fight, I can and will walk away. And I did walk away 18 years ago, and he got help and was sober for 14 years. Now, after his relapse that lasted for a few years, it still hurts me to have to walk away, but it is something I must do. It isn't as easy as you think.
Please read my first posts on this forum a little over a year ago. You will see that I loved (still love) my AH with all my heart, you will see what a wonderful husband and father he truly was, you will see how close he and I were at one time. I can honestly say, even now, that my AH loves me w/all his heart, yet his disease prevents him from being the person he truly is. When I first came here, did I think it was going to get worse? Not at all. I thought some of the people on here were bitter, I'd say not my husband, he's kind, good and considerate, he'll never get like that. When I married him he was my lover and best friend, even up till 4 months ago, I could reel him in and make him see how he was screwing up his life. Now, there is no reeling in. It's not scare tactics I am using, it's called personal knowledge and if I can help one person in life not to live like I am living, then it's worth it. It may not be you, but there may be someone out there reading this post and it may help them. I so wish someone was there to tell me this 20 years go, I may not have taken this path in life. And you know what, even with all his drinking and drunkeness now, I can see the pain and saddness in his eyes, you think he wants this???? He doesn't, but he's got a disease, a disease that takes over and doesn't care what he wants and screws up his brain. Take what you like a leave the rest. Much luck to you. Terri
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:28 AM
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Well, if you really feel like you need to "define" it, I think you've just described someone who is addicted:

Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
the inability to stop once he starts: there is no 'couple of beers' with him. He may mean well when he heads out - but its like once he gets a few in him his brain stops participating & his hands automatically keep feeding his mouth alcohol. Also, the bars closing doesn't always mean the nights over... it means grabbing beer at the gas station & drinking till 7 or 8 in the morning. And yes if its Sunday football night he will miss work the next day or be late.
And someone who is codependent:

Originally Posted by sheshe555 View Post
You're right I do need to focus on myself more but I'm having a very difficult time of thinking of myself regardless of him because I've gotten so used to associating everything I think, do, see, etc with him.

Honestly I feel like I'm the one who's lost.
L
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:29 AM
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Everyone, thank you... sincerely. As you can imagine I feel how I sound... hurt, confused, unsure, etc. so thank you for continuing to reply and not just writing me off.

QU31 - that is a great analogy... and this is not the first time I've seen someone say they need to hit rock bottom first. I've had a close friend tell me to leave and if that's not rock bottom enough for him I would be better off (she left her husband for 3 months and now has one of the best relationships I've ever seen... and yes he still drinks occasionally).

I think denny's right... I need to give Alanon a shot. And my bf needs to get started on first figuring out exactly what the problem is. If he realizes it is a dependency and his only option is to quit he will have to do so... otherwise he will lose me. I just hope I'm strong enough to walk away if it comes down to it.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:30 AM
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I have a good friend who quit drinking, he knew about my ex and when I asked him why he quit he told me he couldn't control it. When he would drink he would get totally blitzed, not remember anything and wake up in strange places. I asked him how often he drank like that and he said maybe several times a year.

I have another good friend who drinks the same way but makes sure he's lined up a designated driver, (that would be me) and just knows that he's gonna party his brains out several times a year. His wife has accepted it (I guess) and they are one of the happiest couples I know (I think). As long as he never EVER again gets another DUI he'll probably stay happily married for the rest of his life (maybe?). I would call both of these buddies alcohol abusers.

But they're not 20 somethings either, they're adults with families and adult responsibilities. Not something that I would want for my life, but that's just me.

Yes people are different, every situation is different. Just know that for the loved ones of addicts, life can be one tough road.

Last edited by Jazzman; 10-10-2007 at 10:50 AM.
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