These boundaries are driving making me crazy.....
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 104
These boundaries are driving making me crazy.....
I put so much time and effort into forming my list of boundaries and makes me crazy that it sits on my dresser collecting dust. I am at such a crossroads with that darn list. Meanwhile, both me and my A are just going through the motions of this so called relationship. He is well aware that this precious list of boundaries exists. It is not discussed because we both know what it means.
Have any of you ever had difficulty with this??
I know for certain it is not because I won't follow through on them, I am confident that I will. I'm thinking, once I give him these boundaries, I will have to put an honest effort into this relationship, and I'm not sure if it's what I want to do on a day to day basis.
The other area I'm having difficulty with is trust. There is none for the obvious reasons. He's an addict. I'm not sure I want to put an effort into this relationship, only to find out once again, that I have been played. I mean, it is one thing being able to deal with his slips as they happen, at least I would have a choice, because the truth is staring me in the face. The part I can't seem to accept, are the secret binges that I know nothing about. It's like I won't be allowed to enforce my own boundaries if I don't know the truth. I've tried reasoning with myself. "maybe what you don't know can't hurt you" Then I go off on a little mini tangent (in my own head of course) Bull****, I have a right to know, it effects my life too.
I think my biggest struggle lies with being deceived again, only to find out many months later. Maybe I could have already been on my way to a better place without him during that time. That would be my decision to make, but first I would have to know the truth.
I don't know for sure. This is causing great turmoil in my life for me right now. Any word of wisdom out there.
Have any of you ever had difficulty with this??
I know for certain it is not because I won't follow through on them, I am confident that I will. I'm thinking, once I give him these boundaries, I will have to put an honest effort into this relationship, and I'm not sure if it's what I want to do on a day to day basis.
The other area I'm having difficulty with is trust. There is none for the obvious reasons. He's an addict. I'm not sure I want to put an effort into this relationship, only to find out once again, that I have been played. I mean, it is one thing being able to deal with his slips as they happen, at least I would have a choice, because the truth is staring me in the face. The part I can't seem to accept, are the secret binges that I know nothing about. It's like I won't be allowed to enforce my own boundaries if I don't know the truth. I've tried reasoning with myself. "maybe what you don't know can't hurt you" Then I go off on a little mini tangent (in my own head of course) Bull****, I have a right to know, it effects my life too.
I think my biggest struggle lies with being deceived again, only to find out many months later. Maybe I could have already been on my way to a better place without him during that time. That would be my decision to make, but first I would have to know the truth.
I don't know for sure. This is causing great turmoil in my life for me right now. Any word of wisdom out there.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Depends what your boundaries are. Whilst I had one which was about not living with an active alcoholic, it was the behaviours that were make or break. I actually didn't give much of a stuff whether he drank or not, as long as he was treating me in the way I wished to be treated. He didn't, so I left.
BTW, my boundaries still stand. They are not person-specific.
BTW, my boundaries still stand. They are not person-specific.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
My boundaries are for me; if I share them, it's once. If I don't follow through, then I have let the other person know they are idle threats, not my needs for a serene life.
If I tie my boundaries to someone else's performance I am bound to get frustrated; they need to be tied to what I will or will not have in my life.
Take care.
If I tie my boundaries to someone else's performance I am bound to get frustrated; they need to be tied to what I will or will not have in my life.
Take care.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by denny57 
If I tie my boundaries to someone else's performance I am bound to get frustrated; they need to be tied to what I will or will not have in my life.
L
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
I view boundaries much like Denny and LaTeeDa do. And yeah, it was a tough one to digest.
Since I identify what my boundaries are, the only behavior, or action that I need to look to is my own.
Example: a boundary of mine is not to tolerate verbal abuse from anyone. When a person becomes verbally abusive towards me, I will walk away, hang up the phone, etc. It doesn't matter if they 'get it' or not because I took action by removing myself from that situation.
Since I identify what my boundaries are, the only behavior, or action that I need to look to is my own.
Example: a boundary of mine is not to tolerate verbal abuse from anyone. When a person becomes verbally abusive towards me, I will walk away, hang up the phone, etc. It doesn't matter if they 'get it' or not because I took action by removing myself from that situation.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 104
Thank you for your responses so far. Sorry I have not replied, darn internet has been acting up the last couple of days. I understand what you guys are saying about boundaries being for me. I do think when I wrote them I may have worded them incorrectly (assuming this by your examples)
Example: If you continue to drink and smoke pot, you are not respecting the kind of life I want for me and my children. I will confront you about this behavior. I will end this relationship and expect you to leave this home.
If you do not take the necessary steps to address your issues with alcohol (AA, counseling etc), I will consider your statement about needing help just another way of manipulating me to stay in this relationship. I will end this relationship and expect you to leave this home.
If you ever threaten to hit me or hurt me physically again, I will call the police and have you removed from my home. I will press charges against you.
When you threaten to take your life, either directly or indirectly, it upsets and frightens me. If you continue this behavior, I will call 911 and ask for help.
Ok, these are some of the more important issues that I have addressed. I have no problems enforcing these boundaries. The one boundary I am having the most difficulty with is lying. Boundary: Lying is unacceptable in this relationship. If you continue to not value honesty in this relationship, I will confront you about this behavior and share my feelings. If you continue to repeat this behavior, I will consider that to mean you do not respect honesty in this relationship and I will no longer want to share my life with you.
How can I enforce this boundary if I don't know that he is lying?
I am losing my mind this weekend because he has taken our daughter to his parents home ( they live out of town) for the weekend. It's Thanksgiving long weekend here. This is a place where he has repeatedly drank and smoked pot and lied about it when confronted. Of course like all the other times caught, he says that this time is different. I have a hard time swallowing that, for obvious reasons. Maybe I am not looking at this situation the right way, I just don't know.
I have reached the point in this relationship that I know for certain that I will have no problem enforcing these boundaries if I so choose to share them with him. Of course that would mean I want to give this relationship another chance. I have not decided about this yet. Reason being, I'm stuck on the lying issue. It makes me feel like I don't have the control to make the proper decisions for me in this life if I don't know what the truth is. It's making me crazy and obsessive. I don't like these feelings.
Help!!!
Example: If you continue to drink and smoke pot, you are not respecting the kind of life I want for me and my children. I will confront you about this behavior. I will end this relationship and expect you to leave this home.
If you do not take the necessary steps to address your issues with alcohol (AA, counseling etc), I will consider your statement about needing help just another way of manipulating me to stay in this relationship. I will end this relationship and expect you to leave this home.
If you ever threaten to hit me or hurt me physically again, I will call the police and have you removed from my home. I will press charges against you.
When you threaten to take your life, either directly or indirectly, it upsets and frightens me. If you continue this behavior, I will call 911 and ask for help.
Ok, these are some of the more important issues that I have addressed. I have no problems enforcing these boundaries. The one boundary I am having the most difficulty with is lying. Boundary: Lying is unacceptable in this relationship. If you continue to not value honesty in this relationship, I will confront you about this behavior and share my feelings. If you continue to repeat this behavior, I will consider that to mean you do not respect honesty in this relationship and I will no longer want to share my life with you.
How can I enforce this boundary if I don't know that he is lying?
I am losing my mind this weekend because he has taken our daughter to his parents home ( they live out of town) for the weekend. It's Thanksgiving long weekend here. This is a place where he has repeatedly drank and smoked pot and lied about it when confronted. Of course like all the other times caught, he says that this time is different. I have a hard time swallowing that, for obvious reasons. Maybe I am not looking at this situation the right way, I just don't know.
I have reached the point in this relationship that I know for certain that I will have no problem enforcing these boundaries if I so choose to share them with him. Of course that would mean I want to give this relationship another chance. I have not decided about this yet. Reason being, I'm stuck on the lying issue. It makes me feel like I don't have the control to make the proper decisions for me in this life if I don't know what the truth is. It's making me crazy and obsessive. I don't like these feelings.
Help!!!
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
Why not just say you are unwilling to accept living with a person like he is.
It’s pretty simple.
The list means nothing to him, it really doesn’t.
Why on earth would you stay in a abusive relationship?
The only way to achieve what you want is to leave the pond.
I say this because there is a large croc in the pond and even though you don’t like getting bit, you still stay in the water.
I think it may be timer to head for dry ground.
It’s pretty simple.
The list means nothing to him, it really doesn’t.
Why on earth would you stay in a abusive relationship?
The only way to achieve what you want is to leave the pond.
I say this because there is a large croc in the pond and even though you don’t like getting bit, you still stay in the water.
I think it may be timer to head for dry ground.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I knew AH was a liar. I chose to ignore it for a long time. Listen to your gut. There is no reason to share boundaries unless you want to. One day I finally realized I had stated my needs many, many times. I was married to someone who did not want to meet them and that was his choice. My choice was to get on and find the life I wanted.
I well remember the anxious sick feeling I had, not wanting to believe I was being lied to. One day, I ran out of excuses for him.
((()))
I well remember the anxious sick feeling I had, not wanting to believe I was being lied to. One day, I ran out of excuses for him.
((()))
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: WA Rainforest
Posts: 209
I think part of the reason you are struggling so, aside from being in a deep deep hole, is that you are making your boundaries about controlling him. Like Denny said, your boundaries are about YOU. Not him.
Now try rewriting that boundary with no You statements, only I statements. For instance: I will not tolerate alcohol or drug use, or impaired behavior, in this home or around myself and my children. See the difference?
And a boundary can only be broken once before enforcement, otherwise it's just an idle threat. Try rewriting your boundaries without using the word 'continue'. One strike and you're out. Well, not necessarily out of the relationship, but like 'If I hear you threaten suicide Then I am calling 911 immediately'.
As far as the lying goes, beyond the old adage "how do you know when an alcoholic is lying? if his lips are moving!" , you will never know when someone else is lying. Or you will KNOW but have no proof. Either way, if you have to wonder, then that itself is the problem. Lack of trust, on both your parts. He has to behave in a way that allows you to trust him, and YOU have to feel that he is someone trustworthy. He could be the model of truthfulness and honesty and it won't matter a bit if YOU don't trust him.
Our part of this toxic dance is trying to control the uncontrollable. Other people are uncontrollable, whether they're addicts or not. Even 'normal' people are uncontrollable! but they run away when someone tries to control or manipulate them. Your part in your recovery is to let go of the controlling and manipulating. "I" statements are setting boundaries, but "you" statements are controlling. Obsessing over secret binging is controlling behavior too - you cannot control that! and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to do the impossible. The only thing you can control at all, and even that not much, is yourself.
Example: If you continue to drink and smoke pot, you are not respecting the kind of life I want for me and my children. I will confront you about this behavior. I will end this relationship and expect you to leave this home.
And a boundary can only be broken once before enforcement, otherwise it's just an idle threat. Try rewriting your boundaries without using the word 'continue'. One strike and you're out. Well, not necessarily out of the relationship, but like 'If I hear you threaten suicide Then I am calling 911 immediately'.
As far as the lying goes, beyond the old adage "how do you know when an alcoholic is lying? if his lips are moving!" , you will never know when someone else is lying. Or you will KNOW but have no proof. Either way, if you have to wonder, then that itself is the problem. Lack of trust, on both your parts. He has to behave in a way that allows you to trust him, and YOU have to feel that he is someone trustworthy. He could be the model of truthfulness and honesty and it won't matter a bit if YOU don't trust him.
Our part of this toxic dance is trying to control the uncontrollable. Other people are uncontrollable, whether they're addicts or not. Even 'normal' people are uncontrollable! but they run away when someone tries to control or manipulate them. Your part in your recovery is to let go of the controlling and manipulating. "I" statements are setting boundaries, but "you" statements are controlling. Obsessing over secret binging is controlling behavior too - you cannot control that! and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to do the impossible. The only thing you can control at all, and even that not much, is yourself.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 104
I guess I understand what you guys are saying. Hard to change the thinking patterns of a person you've been your entire life. Maybe I'm just not ready yet. I don't know.
The only thing I do know right now is I'm sick and tired of feeling this way.
I have an appointment with an EAP Therapist soon, same one that helped me when he left a couple of years ago. She knows the history, saved my sanity once. Hopefully she is up to the challenge again.
The only thing I do know right now is I'm sick and tired of feeling this way.
I have an appointment with an EAP Therapist soon, same one that helped me when he left a couple of years ago. She knows the history, saved my sanity once. Hopefully she is up to the challenge again.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
WPG, it definitely isn't easy to change our thought patterns. Heck if it were, we'd all have great lives and the therapist/mental health professions/support groups would not exist. But it can be done with time and effort on our parts.
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Originally Posted by Barbara52
WPG, it definitely isn't easy to change our thought patterns. Heck if it were, we'd all have great lives and the therapist/mental health professions/support groups would not exist. But it can be done with time and effort on our parts.
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Originally Posted by wpgwoman
For just once I wish I could find an easier path.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Okanagan BC
Posts: 328
Do you love him still? Do you think want a future with him if he is clean? Some one wrote on this site once to me saying, Is being with him an asset or a liability? I think it was Mr. Chritian...anyway that really helped me look at my relationship very hard. Love shouldn't be so much work!! Just know you are not alone! My thoughts are with you!!
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 34
I am married to a guy that was raised to lie. It's not an excuse, but for him it's a lifestyle. I overhear him on the phone and lying when it makes NO difference. I can't understand it. It used to infuriate me! Decades ago I threatened to break up if he lied again - (about drugs, bad behavior, gambling or even the color of his socks!) Finally I let it go, for my own sanity. I have said many times that he should've married a dumber woman. I think it's strange to want to lie, especially about tiny meaningless things. He has a crappy memory (even straight) and can't remember his crap. I was raised to be as honest as I can. Oh well.....
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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it's a bit confusing at first when setting boundaries
becuase when you set one...it gets broken right of the bat.
I break them...not my gf
it's was imposisable for me to set boundaries when me gf was using.
The doctor jackle and mrs hyde rountine would keep me guessing forever.
after many years and heatache i was able to say..."if you use, there's no us"
I knew she had to do it for herself and not for me, so i had to work
through that process that our relationship in the grand scheme of things
would be secondary. it took me time to accept it.
my perceptions of boundaires changed over time. i finally figure out
the boundaries i set are for me to follow, not my gf.
it's a slow process for me, cuz i'm a bit sicker than others.
The more i learned and love myself, i more I gain myself back,
The more I'm able to say...."NO" and not feel so guilty.
becuase when you set one...it gets broken right of the bat.
I break them...not my gf
it's was imposisable for me to set boundaries when me gf was using.
The doctor jackle and mrs hyde rountine would keep me guessing forever.
after many years and heatache i was able to say..."if you use, there's no us"
I knew she had to do it for herself and not for me, so i had to work
through that process that our relationship in the grand scheme of things
would be secondary. it took me time to accept it.
my perceptions of boundaires changed over time. i finally figure out
the boundaries i set are for me to follow, not my gf.
it's a slow process for me, cuz i'm a bit sicker than others.
The more i learned and love myself, i more I gain myself back,
The more I'm able to say...."NO" and not feel so guilty.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Originally Posted by SaTiT
...my perceptions of boundaires changed over time. i finally figure out the boundaries i set are for me to follow, not my gf.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
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WPG,
Thanks for posting your list. Sharing it makes it real, opens it up a bit to crafting and refining. For example: On your first two boundaries, I think you might be better off making them more specific. Tie them to specific actions, not "if you continue to..." but "if you come home drunk and high again" Not "if you don't seek help" but "if you are not in a program by XX/XX/XXXX" Be specific, or he will use your vagueness against you.
I wish I could tell you that there were anything that will stop the lies. Fact is, many people who are habitual alcohol and drug users lie, and many will continue to lie for the rest of their lives.
There are men out there who do not lie, who actually have too much self-esteem to lie. I have learned that, as challenging as this can be sometimes, I greatly prefer this kind of life. If this is a deal-breaker for a romantic relationship, I'd suggest that the quickest path to peace of mind is to start heading for the exit with this relationship, to open yourself to one that meets your minimum requirements, which I assume are the same as mine: DO. NOT. LIE. TO. ME. EVER.
I could no longer stay with a liar, even though he promised treatment, swore up and down he hadn't lied (he just got incredibly good at hiding them) went to counseling with me, etc. etc. etc. I could not stay with him. I was exhausted all the time, sick, stressed, and it DIDN'T START GOING AWAY UNTIL I WAS FREE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you my personal experience: that all the trying in the world couldn't cover up the disgust I felt at being romantically involved with a lying drug user & alcoholic. There was nothing left there for me, and the energy I expended trying to convince myself that there WAS........should've been used for things that brought me & my family joy, not more pain.
Anyway. Hope that wasn't too candid. This is all your choice, and you need to take things at whatever pace keeps you sane. But at the very least I would sharpen your boundaries and prepare to protect yourself by sticking to them. You have a right to peace of mind.
Hugs and strength,
GL
Thanks for posting your list. Sharing it makes it real, opens it up a bit to crafting and refining. For example: On your first two boundaries, I think you might be better off making them more specific. Tie them to specific actions, not "if you continue to..." but "if you come home drunk and high again" Not "if you don't seek help" but "if you are not in a program by XX/XX/XXXX" Be specific, or he will use your vagueness against you.
I wish I could tell you that there were anything that will stop the lies. Fact is, many people who are habitual alcohol and drug users lie, and many will continue to lie for the rest of their lives.
There are men out there who do not lie, who actually have too much self-esteem to lie. I have learned that, as challenging as this can be sometimes, I greatly prefer this kind of life. If this is a deal-breaker for a romantic relationship, I'd suggest that the quickest path to peace of mind is to start heading for the exit with this relationship, to open yourself to one that meets your minimum requirements, which I assume are the same as mine: DO. NOT. LIE. TO. ME. EVER.
I could no longer stay with a liar, even though he promised treatment, swore up and down he hadn't lied (he just got incredibly good at hiding them) went to counseling with me, etc. etc. etc. I could not stay with him. I was exhausted all the time, sick, stressed, and it DIDN'T START GOING AWAY UNTIL I WAS FREE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you my personal experience: that all the trying in the world couldn't cover up the disgust I felt at being romantically involved with a lying drug user & alcoholic. There was nothing left there for me, and the energy I expended trying to convince myself that there WAS........should've been used for things that brought me & my family joy, not more pain.
Anyway. Hope that wasn't too candid. This is all your choice, and you need to take things at whatever pace keeps you sane. But at the very least I would sharpen your boundaries and prepare to protect yourself by sticking to them. You have a right to peace of mind.
Hugs and strength,
GL
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