My "insensitive" friends

Old 05-30-2003, 07:39 PM
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Angry My "insensitive" friends

Hi Guys,
Something has been bothering me today... and I just wanted your expert input

I have 1 really close girlfriend, and a few social "friends".... and then there are those that are kind of inbetween. There are two friends in particular, who are fun to be around, have lots in common with... and are great fun to sit around and have gab-sessions with. But these two friends - lets call them Sharon and Wendy - have also been there in times when I needed a shoulder to cry on; and I have been there for them.

So I was under the impression that Sharon and Wendy had something invested in our friendship; something of value and meaning. BUT, I get so confused! For example: Wendy is a single mom, and a social drinker. She has weight and self-esteem issues and uses alcohol to escape and be someone else (I know, I know - RED FLAG!). Wendy and I have talked extensively about her drinking and mostly because she figured she had a "problem". We also talk lots about me, and G and our whole "addiction" issues etc. She is supportive etc YET.... She calls me up on a Friday night wanting me to GO OUT and get drunk! Trying to explain that I don't drink ESPECIALLY when someone I love very much is in recovery, is understood at the time.... but she STILL asks me to go! I find it so rude and insensitive.

And Sharon... She does the same thing. We used to be GREAT friends! I mean we did everything together... and then I moved about 1/2 an hour away and I never hear from her. I'll call her every once in a while to see how she is, and we insist on getting together... but she is always "busy". I wonder... Is it me??

And here it is... the real kick in the teeth.

Today is the 3rd anniversary of the day my Lauren Hope died. And at 8:00am this morning, Sharon calls "hey Meg! Me and some girls are goin' out to party tonite! wanna come!??"
Did she FORGET that I live with an alcoholic??!
(oh ya, and her hubby is an A too - just no one likes to admit it )
Did she ACTUALLY forget that the 30th is the day I lost my baby girl?!! How hard is it to remember ONE day in May?

Grrrrr.... anyway, I guess I am emotional. My best friend sent me an email to say she is thinking of me.... I got a phone call from Laurens' old daycare-taker to say she is thinking of us...

I guess I have to suck it up... I need to figure out which friendships are worth saving... I just wish people were a little more understanding and sensitive

NAHHHHHH! I don't ask too much LOL :p

Thanks
Meg
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:53 PM
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**************{Meg}}}}}}}

Just wanted to send you some hugs. I don't have any expert input but just wanted to tell you I care. Be as emotional as you need to be. We are here to listen and lend a shoulder when you need it.

Love,
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:19 PM
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Meg,

I have learned...not mastered....that people change. Right now you are changing big time. You are sensitive to different things today than you used to be. Not that any of this is your fault..but sometimes (nah...all the time) codependency reaches beyond the addict in our lives. Could you be expecting different things from these friends than you used to??

Beavettes mom was gone a year the 19th of this month and very few people remembered. I am blessed to have those that did...several of them here. People have their own lives and some think they are the center of the universe more than others.

I am messing this all up. What I am trying to say is that all friendships don't last a lifetime. They or we outgrow it...we take different paths. You can choose to enjoy what you love about these friends and bow out when you are not comfortable. I have an entire gaggle of those sorts of friends.

(((Love ya Meg)))) We have angels watching over us. Perhaps they have met.

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Old 05-30-2003, 08:31 PM
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:32 PM
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Hi Meg.

I understand. But your friends don't. A person who is truly consumed by substance abuse is the stuff of movies for most people. It's a dramatic saga to tell. But until you've been in the middle of it, you don't get it. I dated a guy for a very long time that didn't drink at all. He had at one time drunk way too much. It didn't make any sense to me that he wouldn't drink with me. Obviously he was under control. I had no idea. Last week a friend of Dino's took him out and and kept insisting that he drink. Alcohol was not Dino's doc... but what was the idiot thinking? Last Christmas I went to a party and watched one of the smartest women I know keep pouring drinks for a friend of ours that calls herself "L*** the Lush." That was after even the Lush said she needed to slow down for the nite. But the smart one wanted her to have a good time. I have friends now who know that I drink dangerously... yet they ask me to drink with them. I have friends who know some of what Dino and I have been through... yet they suggest drinking and talk drugs in front of me. I decline and thank them and say a prayer that they never have to know what I know. It's ignorance, or maybe denial. And you and I understand about denial, eh?

I also understand how mystifying it must be that a friend would not remember such a sad anniversary. (((( Meg! )))) But just to give an example of how dippy people can be... that same fellow I mentioned above I was with for 5 years. He disappeared. I mean like... without a trace disappeared. A couple of years later I was talking with a woman who called me her best friend, and I mentioned him. "Gosh... that was so long ago... do you still think about HIM?" Yep, and I also still thought about every stick of furniture and scrap of memorabilia that he owned that I still had in storage for him in case he wasn't dead. But it wasn't my friend's tragedy, and it just didn't register with her how huge it was for me. I still don't get that one.

Whether you want to cut these people any slack is, of course, up to you. I don't hang out much with the insensitive types, but I don't take their thoughtlessness personally. It's not a reflection on you. They just don't get it.

Hugs,
Smoke
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:35 PM
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Meg,

I personally don't think you are asking too much to expect your true friends to be sensitive to what is going on in your life right now.

I think JT said it best. Your life is taking a new direction and 'partying' friends just don't seem to be your cup of tea right now, if ever. And yeah, we'd sure like it if everyone could do the right thing and consider other people's situations, but it's a sad fact that they don't.

I often think about what a real shame it is that the American public is so uneducated when it comes to the world of addiction and how it not only affects the addicted but the family of the addicted also. I swear, if I could go on a campaign to educate the world, I would (not that I'm an expert, but you know what I mean.)

Meg, I say choose the friends who make you comfortable. And it doesn't sound like Sharon and Wendy are those friends right now.
It's called working your program, gal. Do what is best for you!
(Listen to me? Like I'm the queen of working my program?...lol )
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:47 PM
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Hey Meg. I've learned one very important lesson in my life and that's for the most part, people are in your life due to what you can "give" them, and how you can make their life interesting, better, etc... I try not to be that way myself, but we are all that way really. I mean, look at all of us here. We're here because we have some need for each other. None of us would ever really be a circle of friends without this warped existence that we are forced to live by our A's. People in general suck, they really do. It's dog eat dog and everyone is out for themselves. Most of us on here don't really live by the "dog eat dog" motto, due to our nature as "pleasers". I've simply just come to terms with it, and I can't change my nature to try and "help" people, I'm just trying (and somewhat succeeding) to understand that I'll never get back what I give, because it's just not in the nature of "takers".

Am I making any sense?

Lastly, please yourself first and foremost be sensitive to yourself and your needs, cause God knows honey, ain't nobody else gonna be!
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:01 PM
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:01 PM
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Wow.. thanks
U guys are so right. And to be all "smart" about it, I KNEW in my heart what you guys would say...

I AM going thru huge changes. I used to want to be around people who partied and drank - u know, the outgoing types - because I found them attractive; they had what I DIDN'T have. These people attracted attention, and I got some of that while around them. Sure, friendships would develop, but I don't get out of it what I used to. I have realized that I am capable of attracting people, attracting attention just because I am ME.

But, I can't say it doesn't make me sad. Sad that these friends don't actually see the changes in me... or don't care to pay that close attention. Part of this healing and empowerment in my recovery, is proving my worth... but I am beginning to think I ONLY need to prove it to myself, and not everyone else.

So, here I am bawling my eyes out as I type this. This is HUGE for me. I KNOW I am important, of worth to this world... yet I hate that I still yearn for the attention. I am soooo emotional already...

I guess there is alot more to it as well (there always is ). Part of the whole "thing" with my daughter ties into all these self-esteem issues. When my Lauren was waiting for her heart transplant, and after we came home, so many people dropped by or called to check up. They cared about us, my daughter, about me. And I was told how strong I was! I was given this child as a GIFT, and I took such good care of her. I learned everything there was to know about her meds, her medical procedures, her general care. And she did so well... I was so extremely HAPPY every moment I had her, and loved that I was given this "job" as her caregiver.

And then she was GONE.
I was left feeling so empty. I had no goals to work towards in her life. I had no more of the attention and pats on the back for how strong I was... The phone calls and visits from friends dwindled off... the local TV and newspapers stopped checking up on our "miracle child"... It was just all GONE.

And the hardest part... the reason why I am choking back tears is that I am just realizing how important this little girl was to me, YET I thrived on the love and support I received from others BECAUSE of her.

I guess you could say that Lauren is STILL teaching me lessons about myself; about the world. She gave me the strength I needed to survive the tragedies. She also taught me how STRONG I am even without someone holding my hand. I am capable of surviving all on my own.

I miss her very much - I hope she knows how influential her little soul has been.

Thanks guys
Meg
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:03 PM
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Wow! Y'all came up with some very thought provoking posts while I was busily typing my response. Smoke you said it so well! You know, I can take myself back to the day when I was the party queen, and had a friend who's husband would get really upset when I gathered her up to go drinkin. I was like, Oh, stop being such a control freak and an A-hole, let the girl have fun! I couldn't see back at the time that she had a SERIOUS problem. To me, her insane behavior when she was drinking was hysterical. Now I know the hell he must have been going through watching his wife self destruct in front of him. 90% of the friends I have don't have a clue of DH's problem. They don't realize that he's not just drinking when he's with them on occassion, he's drinking steadily everyday. I come off as the stick in the mud, because anymore when he's drinking, I shut down, and I'm not my happy bubbly self. I imagine they think I'm a controlling, b!tchy nag (which I don't nag, but I'm sure they all say, oooh, she's being quiet, so he's in big trouble later on).

Anyway, I'm rambling! :o
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:06 PM
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Justfedup,

That sounded just a tad harsh to me. Do you really believe that? I know that I do have people in my life that are not there only to "get what I can give". Thank God for that. The ones that are as you describe are no longer around. I have carefully weeded them out. It sounds like you may need to do the same.

Dog eat Dog?? If I believed that I would have a hard time leaving my house. There was a time, a long time ago that I believed that, but after alot of work on my part I know that is not true. I choose my arena's alot more carefully and I surround myself with people who are not looking for the nearest fire hydrant.

I was a bitter, unhappy person in the past. Now, because of the people that I have met as a result of what you call my "warped exsistance", I have support, laughs, comraderie and understanding. I take as much as I give. That is what I call friendship.

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Old 05-30-2003, 09:33 PM
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Just Tired, I didn't mean it at all to be "harsh" (although I'm always blamed for coming off as harsh). It's truly not my intent. I guess I've never been very eloquent in my ways.

My usage of "warped existence" is by no means a slam on anyone. We DO live a warped existence. Friends or no friends, our lives are not as we wish them to be, due to circumstances beyond our control. That IS warped, and it ticks me off to no end that I can't just fix it.

As far as my friends go, I can't expect them to understand what I'm going through, I can't expect them to "be there" for something they cannot possibly comprehend. It goes both ways for me and my friends. I've got a friend "in love" with the biggest man ***** that ever existed. I can't understand that existense no matter how hard I try. It's not in my nature, it's just who I am. We all as human beings have thresholds of tolerence to which no one can understand except for others that have that very same threshold. Know what I'm sayin?

And I swear I'm not bitter, LOL, I'm the least bitter person you'll ever meet in this world. I just hit it head on and make lemons into lemonaid (actually I shove those lemons down my shirt, cause I need all the help I can get! LOL)

I do apologize if I come off "harsh" or "bitter" it's really not the intent.

Was just tryin to help darnit!
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:50 PM
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And btw Just Tired, I do have a friend I do have a friend who understands this "warped existence". I swear an angel sent her to me and me to her. From the day I met her (we work together) she's had a HUGE effect on me. I am soooo not an emotional person, but even before we fessed up that we were living with "A's", I'd be in her office bawling my eyes out because some little demon did something really awful to my child, and she'd be in my office because some little demon did something to her kid.(aka, to save the confusion, demon=bratty little kid that did something really rotten to my/her kid)

We just sort of had a bond. I just can't even explain it. Well a little over a month ago she told me that her and her husband seperated (after 20 years together), which threw me for a loop because her life (to me) just seemed so perfect. Then we got to talking as to why, and it was because he was an alcoholic. It just sent chills through me, because her life was my life and we just never talked about it. (we're all so good at hiding it). She is one amazing lady. I sent her the link to this forum. Not sure if she's read it or not. We'll get around to discussing it eventually, but she's like me, we're not big "talkers". But what's nice is the daily "how ya doin?". And when she says that I know exactly what she's asking, no one else does, it's just the typical "hey, how ya doin." But we both check in on each other and make sure all is well and if not, we try and find a way to at least make that one day a little better for each other.

So there! :p I'm not really Miss Bitter. LOL
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:59 PM
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And Meg, you are one great lady all on your own! Don't you ever forget that! You've shown so much strength and spirit where most would just curl up and stop living. And just know I admire you immensely. gosh, now I'm second guessing if I should even have posted this. I always come off as such a ******!
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Old 05-31-2003, 12:13 AM
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A big hug ****{MEG}}}!!!!!!!

I am so sorry for your pain.Family and friends can tend to be so insensitive at times.They don't do this delibrately.Involved in their own everyday lives alot of times we grow apart from close friends.The things that we used to enjoy doing with some people we think about now and wonder how in the world we ever could be happy doing at all. You have grown alot emotionally and some of your friends are still stuck in limbo! Don't fret now, we are here for you anytime you need support.

Love and prayers,
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Old 05-31-2003, 12:26 AM
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((((((((((((Meg))))))))))))

I don't know you that well. I barely have time to get to this side of the board anymore with all the necomers on the A side but your last post touhed me so much, I had tears in my eyes. I am so sorry for the pain you've had to endure and so in awe of your deep insight into yourself.

I saw the title of the thread and I wrote the same title in this same forum a while back about 2 friends of mine that were my best friends. I don't talk to either of them today because that's how they have chosen how to handle my boundaries. Jt said something important that we go through phases of development and we sometimes grow away from people. It's sad but it is also positive because it means you are doing some hard work and god will open you up to be available for some more meaningful friendships.

smoke also said something very important in my opinion. I've had to learn this and it's a harsh lesson to learn but it is reality. Just because I don't drink and my husband is an A not in recovery, does not mean that everyone has to accommodate me. I have to make my world comfortable around me. For example, if I have trouble with a friends drinking then I can choose to not be around this friend during this time...but I can't expect this friend to change their life to accommodate me. In fact I think that would b codependent of them. i had the biggest fight with my husband because I didn't want alcohol at our wedding. He convinced me that just because we were alcoholics doesn't mean we have the right to deprive people of having a drink if they want one. Smoke is right, if you don't live it, you don't get it. My parents keep asking me when do I graduate from AA and do I still have to go to the classes. Alanon helps me try to put appropriate boundaries in place for myself. That's all I can do because having expectation of other people usually just brings me dissappointment.

One more thing and I'm done sorry. I have also learned in recovery from Alcohol and drugs that relationships are formed and move to the next level when we have confrontations and work them through. Every relationship is going to hit a rough spot. It's how we handle it that tells the future of the relationship. In my case i told my friend I didn't like the way she spoke to me and I wanted an apology. Haven't heard from her since but I don't regret standing up for myself. if these girls mean a lot to you, I would tell them how you feel. If they are true friends they will respect your feelings and not ask you to drink with them anymore. I always expect people to think the way I do or to be as empathetic as I am but that's just not how it is. My guess is that they don't even know this stuff bothers you.
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Old 05-31-2003, 08:55 AM
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**********{Meg}}}}}}

I am so sorry for your loss, and I know God blessed you with your precious angel for whatever his reasons are. And you are special and worthy all by yourself!! You are a very special person! Don't you forget it!!!

I'm sorry your friends are so insensitive. I think Smoke had said, it wasn't the friends tragedy, therefore wasn't as huge to them. Altho, I guess if they were there for you then, and not self centered, I would think that they would still be there for you now. I think as we grow and change, sometimes it is time to move on. God puts people in our lives for whatever reason, and we learn from them and gain whatever it is that He wants us to gain. But as we grow, perhaps we have learned all we can and it is time for new experiences and friendships in our life. I have a lot of old friends who are not in the same place as me any longer, we have outgrown each other (alot of them are still stuck back in the partying) but recently I have realized that now I have all kinds of new friends, esp. in the program, that have replaced the old, and my life is much richer.

((((((((((((((((((((((((Tons of Hugs to you)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Old 05-31-2003, 09:12 AM
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Meg, I am so sorry for your loss and really sad that your friends didn't remember. You are such a wonderful person and deserve to have friends that are lookin out for you too!

I have NEVER had very many close friends.....true friends. Women tend to be very back stabbing and two faced. There are the "good" ones out there. They are not easy to find, but I have been blessed to find 3. We also do change as years go by, I also was the "party" girl, but things have changed and priorities have changed. Two of my friends have been through EVERYTHING with me and one is fairly new, but I have determined that she is a keeper. I have been fortunate that the two friends have grown right along with me. There were some along the way that I thought were loyal friends, but found out as I grew, they didn't. It is tough, but ending the friendships turned out to be the best.

As for the "dog eat dog" comment......I truely don't believe that as a general statement. There are those kind of people out there, but there are MANY good hearted geniune carrying people out there! We are told to Love thy neighbor as ourselves and there are some of us that REALL try to live that way! I am not saying that that those of us trying to live that way are perfect or don't over-look other needs, but we not out to hurt anyone.

My prayers are with you Meg.....I hope that you resolve the issue with your friends.

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Old 05-31-2003, 09:43 AM
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Thanks Fed Up,
No no no, you didn't come off as a ****** at all!
It's hard for me to take compliments, but I KNOW the strength it takes to have survived under the cicumstances... so Thank You... Most times I DO feel strong.

One thing I got from other responses here was MY role in these friendships. Yup, I guess if this bothers me, I need to TELL them... maybe it's partly my fault.
I am learning a lot about my codependant self; some of my issues include my inability to communicate my feelings and needs / wants to those close to me. I expect them to come running when I am need, but I give them no indication of how I am feeling and why.

I am feeling better today (of course).
All of you helped so much by allowing me to put things in perspective.
Take care,
Meg
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