Breaking the cycle-need advice
It is what it is
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 280
Breaking the cycle-need advice
This may seem obvious to some but I am in the beginning of my recovery and I have questions that come up. I am asking about breaking this ongoing cycle that my abf and I have.
He is off the wagon for the past two weeks after a good run with sobriety, at least for him. I didn't ask or threaten him into it sobriety. He chose to test the waters in AA himself but I think it was in part because he saw me doing my Al-Anon work and was curious and competitive with me. I didn't ask why because it's none of my business and I was grateful that he chose to begin the process. It was going great but now he's back to his alcoholic behaviors.
The cycle goes like this: He inevitibly ends up drinking and becoming argumentative and irrational, spewing insults and degrading remarks with disdain in his voice at me. I have learned through my program to walk away from him. When he comes into the room again, I walk away. This is a huge improvement for me. I once spent hours upon hours trying to make him see that I wasn't doing all the awful things to him that he was acussing me of. I was so worried about his perception of me and how untrue they were that I couldn't stand to let it be like that. I've come to learn that it's his problem not mine. Thank you HP.
But, since his behavior still remains ugly even though I'm not engaging, I still get angry and resentful when he leaves the house for the night, stays out until daybreak or later and comes home to sleep it off. I do go on with my day and take my kids out (if it's a weekend) or get ready for work and get them off to school. I don't spend the entire day mulling over the situation like I used to. It still bothers me though and I refuse to call him and act like everything is fine. He will eventually call me out of guilt and start talking to me asking how I am or telling me he's sorry for whatever he said or did that he didn't mean. I have made it very clear that it makes me unhappy when he stays out all night. I have made it clear that I don't like that he risks his life as well as others when he leaves the house drunk and drives like that. I have told him that I don't appreciate that he talks to me that way. However I don't know the consequences that I can give to those behaviors. And I also am not ready to leave yet so that cannot be one of them.
I hate that he calls to talk the next day. I hate that I inevitably start talking to him. It wouldn't help to stay silent so I don't. But I am sick of the same old thing. Aside from leaving him, does anyone have a suggestion of what to do following the night after an episode? I don't know if there is anything I can do to break the cycle. I have changed myself to a point but that's as far as I've come besides continuing my progress in Al-Anon in baby steps.
Jenny
He is off the wagon for the past two weeks after a good run with sobriety, at least for him. I didn't ask or threaten him into it sobriety. He chose to test the waters in AA himself but I think it was in part because he saw me doing my Al-Anon work and was curious and competitive with me. I didn't ask why because it's none of my business and I was grateful that he chose to begin the process. It was going great but now he's back to his alcoholic behaviors.
The cycle goes like this: He inevitibly ends up drinking and becoming argumentative and irrational, spewing insults and degrading remarks with disdain in his voice at me. I have learned through my program to walk away from him. When he comes into the room again, I walk away. This is a huge improvement for me. I once spent hours upon hours trying to make him see that I wasn't doing all the awful things to him that he was acussing me of. I was so worried about his perception of me and how untrue they were that I couldn't stand to let it be like that. I've come to learn that it's his problem not mine. Thank you HP.
But, since his behavior still remains ugly even though I'm not engaging, I still get angry and resentful when he leaves the house for the night, stays out until daybreak or later and comes home to sleep it off. I do go on with my day and take my kids out (if it's a weekend) or get ready for work and get them off to school. I don't spend the entire day mulling over the situation like I used to. It still bothers me though and I refuse to call him and act like everything is fine. He will eventually call me out of guilt and start talking to me asking how I am or telling me he's sorry for whatever he said or did that he didn't mean. I have made it very clear that it makes me unhappy when he stays out all night. I have made it clear that I don't like that he risks his life as well as others when he leaves the house drunk and drives like that. I have told him that I don't appreciate that he talks to me that way. However I don't know the consequences that I can give to those behaviors. And I also am not ready to leave yet so that cannot be one of them.
I hate that he calls to talk the next day. I hate that I inevitably start talking to him. It wouldn't help to stay silent so I don't. But I am sick of the same old thing. Aside from leaving him, does anyone have a suggestion of what to do following the night after an episode? I don't know if there is anything I can do to break the cycle. I have changed myself to a point but that's as far as I've come besides continuing my progress in Al-Anon in baby steps.
Jenny
A work in progress....
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by sunshine321 
I am sick of the same old thing. Aside from leaving him, does anyone have a suggestion of what to do following the night after an episode?
If nothing changes, then nothing changes. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. (And various other recovery mantras that I had to repeat to myself over and over until they stuck.)
Silence is better than trying to reason with him, but do you really want to live like that? And what about your kids?
Said with love from one who has been there....
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
I dont have any answers for you, as I am trying No Contact, and I feel like I am dying from the pain that is flowing in to fill the emptiness.
I cannot fathom how people have lived in a house with the As. I always shut mine out. I just wanted to acknowledge that I have experienced the behavior.
I think you are brave for setting your boundaries, and, I know it is hard when they go their own way all night instead of respecting you. I know that all too well. Mine would rather be HOMELESS, literally, than respect my boundaries and stay with me and his son. I am actually struggling to comprehend that.
I think my A is a sociopath.
I cannot fathom how people have lived in a house with the As. I always shut mine out. I just wanted to acknowledge that I have experienced the behavior.
I think you are brave for setting your boundaries, and, I know it is hard when they go their own way all night instead of respecting you. I know that all too well. Mine would rather be HOMELESS, literally, than respect my boundaries and stay with me and his son. I am actually struggling to comprehend that.
I think my A is a sociopath.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by sunshine321
I hate that he calls to talk the next day. I hate that I inevitably start talking to him. It wouldn't help to stay silent so I don't. But I am sick of the same old thing. Aside from leaving him, does anyone have a suggestion of what to do following the night after an episode? I don't know if there is anything I can do to break the cycle. I have changed myself to a point but that's as far as I've come besides continuing my progress in Al-Anon in baby steps.
Jenny
Jenny
How do you want you and your kids to live? What life lessons to you want your children to learn from their father and from you? What are the conditions that would tell you that enough is enough and you must leave?
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
What payoffs are you getting by staying in a relationship that leads you to post on a forum?
And what might be your boundaries and the attendant consequences?
Sad to say, I have posted on here for quite some time and those few drinking spouses I have read about who embrace recovery and salvage the relationship are those whose spouse is ready to leave. And many of those who are ready to leave are in that place because they have truly had enough and the relationship is barely salvageable.
What are you looking to achieve?
And what might be your boundaries and the attendant consequences?
Sad to say, I have posted on here for quite some time and those few drinking spouses I have read about who embrace recovery and salvage the relationship are those whose spouse is ready to leave. And many of those who are ready to leave are in that place because they have truly had enough and the relationship is barely salvageable.
What are you looking to achieve?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: "Somewhere in Ohio" ... little joke from past
Posts: 481
My guess is that you will leave when you cannot stand the pain, drama an stress any longer. Or when he crosses the line too far.
Then there's the mixed bag of loneliness and peace. I have found that I am starting to enjoy the peace so much it would be very difficult to take a call from R, and impossible to be in his presence. Well, unless he were in recovery.
You have to get to the place where you crave the peace more than the drama. That's where I'm at right now.
Best wishes to you ... I hope you find peace soon!
Then there's the mixed bag of loneliness and peace. I have found that I am starting to enjoy the peace so much it would be very difficult to take a call from R, and impossible to be in his presence. Well, unless he were in recovery.
You have to get to the place where you crave the peace more than the drama. That's where I'm at right now.
Best wishes to you ... I hope you find peace soon!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
You have answered your own question. You'll have to put up with it as long as you decide to remain. Until you are ready to leave, he'll be assured that you'll take what he dishes out. After all, staying is a form of acceptance. You can't change him. You can have detachment, but A's are notorious for crossing our boundaries unless they are certain we mean business.
You hate alot of the stuff going on in the relationship, you say you're sick of "the same old thing." Since leaving is not an option you wish to consider at this time, I can only assume you are not sick enough of it yet. No, there is nothing you can do to break the cycle as long as you are there. Your presence = the continuation of the cycle. Sorry I don't have any other answer for this situation.
You hate alot of the stuff going on in the relationship, you say you're sick of "the same old thing." Since leaving is not an option you wish to consider at this time, I can only assume you are not sick enough of it yet. No, there is nothing you can do to break the cycle as long as you are there. Your presence = the continuation of the cycle. Sorry I don't have any other answer for this situation.
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Jenny,
We are going thru the same thing right now, and it's hard. I am sick enough of it to leave, I just know that he will be drunker than drunk thru the whole battle, and it's hard when you own a house, have committments to watch your grandkids while their mother works, the AH knows your work phone number and wouldn't think twice about calling 100 times to harass you and/or show up there drunk. Thing is, I'm just not it it for the fight. And like you, when he sobers up, begs forgiveness, etc., I wind up talking to him. I think now, after he has only been sober for 98 days, then relapsed for 8, then sober for about 2 weeks, now on a bender again, I really have to do something. I just wish my HP would take care of it for me for once instead of me taking care of it by myself. Unfortunately, I know that won't happen. I wish you luck and I'll be thinking of you.
Terri
We are going thru the same thing right now, and it's hard. I am sick enough of it to leave, I just know that he will be drunker than drunk thru the whole battle, and it's hard when you own a house, have committments to watch your grandkids while their mother works, the AH knows your work phone number and wouldn't think twice about calling 100 times to harass you and/or show up there drunk. Thing is, I'm just not it it for the fight. And like you, when he sobers up, begs forgiveness, etc., I wind up talking to him. I think now, after he has only been sober for 98 days, then relapsed for 8, then sober for about 2 weeks, now on a bender again, I really have to do something. I just wish my HP would take care of it for me for once instead of me taking care of it by myself. Unfortunately, I know that won't happen. I wish you luck and I'll be thinking of you.
Terri
Keepingmyjoy
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 328
You and I are in the same dance.....right now he is going to try to not drink for 28 days...
But, we do that dance, he is a jerk, says awful things, acts completely nuts, and then the next day, he gets me coffee and is all nice as if nothing happened. I made it clear to him too that I cannot do that anymore. I told him that just because he "forgets" or "doesn't remember" what happened, doesn't make it less hurtful and difficult for me to pretend it did not happen anymore. So I told him that I will not pretend anymore, but when it happens I will not discuss it or fill him in on what a jerk he was the night before. It is his life and he can choose. But right now, in this sober moment, just know that you will be hurting me by your behavior when you drink and if you continue to do so, I will have to make some choices of my own.
I did not elaborate on what choices I would make....that leaves me room to wiggle since I am not ready to leave yet either. But I could choose to leave for the day, or night, I could choose to go away for the weekend etc.
Wish I could be more helpful...but have the same thing going on! Hang in there!
But, we do that dance, he is a jerk, says awful things, acts completely nuts, and then the next day, he gets me coffee and is all nice as if nothing happened. I made it clear to him too that I cannot do that anymore. I told him that just because he "forgets" or "doesn't remember" what happened, doesn't make it less hurtful and difficult for me to pretend it did not happen anymore. So I told him that I will not pretend anymore, but when it happens I will not discuss it or fill him in on what a jerk he was the night before. It is his life and he can choose. But right now, in this sober moment, just know that you will be hurting me by your behavior when you drink and if you continue to do so, I will have to make some choices of my own.
I did not elaborate on what choices I would make....that leaves me room to wiggle since I am not ready to leave yet either. But I could choose to leave for the day, or night, I could choose to go away for the weekend etc.
Wish I could be more helpful...but have the same thing going on! Hang in there!
It is what it is
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 280
So what I gather from everyone's imput is there is nothing I can do to break the cycle of drunk, leave, apologize, continue on, until I decide that my boundary is leaving. I thought there might be more options since I do know that there are others who live (peacefully) with As, in recover or not.
I am detaching which is my part so that he effects me less and less but I still don't like the way he effects me. I know I'm allowing that but I don't think you can live with another person and have them not effect you in some way. I was hoping that my detaching would bring on an change in the relationship, not only in myself. Change forces change. I do see there is one in that I'm not engaging and dragging out the drama but I guess it's not enough of a change.
I am not ready to leave yet. Not because I can't live without him. I would manage just fine and I'm not too afraid of being alone. After all this nonsense the past two years, I would love to be on my own without any SO in the picture. I am not financially fit at this time. My kids are in school which I have to pay for and I work full time to cover all of our insurance benefits. Also I would have to afford a rent that is quite high in NJ and I don't know how I can afford it all. My exh has claimed poverty level in front of the judge when we divorced and proved it in taxes and only pays me $200.00 a month for our older daughter. It helps but not much compared to the money that has to go out monthly.
What keeps me here is the thought of yet another failed relationship, disrupting my kids' lives once again, depriving my baby of her father on a daily basis by leaving, having to handle child rearing alone because abf won't be able to take care of himself, let alone a child, fear of my baby spending time alone with an alcoholic father on his weekends, being able to financially support me and my kids without moving to a dangerous neighborhood so we can afford rent, and depriving them of their own rooms, their lovely backyard, their life as they know it. I know they are not the best reasons to stay, but they are my fears that I have to overcome.
What do I want to accomplish by staying in this relationship? Ideally I would like if abf would get his act together and work the program and get sober. Then we could finally start working on the real issues underneath the alcohol. I would like for us to be a loving and happy family. One family, not separate. I hate that I cannot seem to give this to my children and I never expected to end up here. I guess I have to give up the dream I have in order to find the courage to move on with my life without an alcoholic. I know that I won't stay with abf if he doesn't get into treatment. I know that I will not live the rest of my life like this. I've already stated this boundary to abf. I just didn't give it a timeline because I can't. I'm just not ready yet. Thanks for all your help and support.
Jenny
I am detaching which is my part so that he effects me less and less but I still don't like the way he effects me. I know I'm allowing that but I don't think you can live with another person and have them not effect you in some way. I was hoping that my detaching would bring on an change in the relationship, not only in myself. Change forces change. I do see there is one in that I'm not engaging and dragging out the drama but I guess it's not enough of a change.
I am not ready to leave yet. Not because I can't live without him. I would manage just fine and I'm not too afraid of being alone. After all this nonsense the past two years, I would love to be on my own without any SO in the picture. I am not financially fit at this time. My kids are in school which I have to pay for and I work full time to cover all of our insurance benefits. Also I would have to afford a rent that is quite high in NJ and I don't know how I can afford it all. My exh has claimed poverty level in front of the judge when we divorced and proved it in taxes and only pays me $200.00 a month for our older daughter. It helps but not much compared to the money that has to go out monthly.
What keeps me here is the thought of yet another failed relationship, disrupting my kids' lives once again, depriving my baby of her father on a daily basis by leaving, having to handle child rearing alone because abf won't be able to take care of himself, let alone a child, fear of my baby spending time alone with an alcoholic father on his weekends, being able to financially support me and my kids without moving to a dangerous neighborhood so we can afford rent, and depriving them of their own rooms, their lovely backyard, their life as they know it. I know they are not the best reasons to stay, but they are my fears that I have to overcome.
What do I want to accomplish by staying in this relationship? Ideally I would like if abf would get his act together and work the program and get sober. Then we could finally start working on the real issues underneath the alcohol. I would like for us to be a loving and happy family. One family, not separate. I hate that I cannot seem to give this to my children and I never expected to end up here. I guess I have to give up the dream I have in order to find the courage to move on with my life without an alcoholic. I know that I won't stay with abf if he doesn't get into treatment. I know that I will not live the rest of my life like this. I've already stated this boundary to abf. I just didn't give it a timeline because I can't. I'm just not ready yet. Thanks for all your help and support.
Jenny
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Jenny,
I too can relate to that. I babysit my two grandkids at night after working a full time day job. They now live in a dingy basement apt. but were evicted this month and my daughter has to find a new place to live by the end of October. My house has been their only salvation, nice home, beautiful backyard with swingset and pool, their own room at my house, good food, nice toys, and I truly love my house with all it has to offer too, except my AH. I couldn't really afford to live on my own and pay rent in a nice area and have all I have now. I certainly couldn't give my grandkids what they have now. I have the medical taken out of my paycheck also for myself and AH. This is my second marriage, and at first I couldn't fathom the thought at another failed marriage. But you know what, I didn't fail at this marriage, HE FAILED ME. And in fact, I am going to be proud of myself when I do end this marriage, that I had the courage to do it and put myself and my grandkids first (who needs to grow up w/a drunk grandfather and seeing their grandmother put up with it). It possibly may create a cycle wherein they will follow suit. Do I want that for them? I have decided I am putting my house up for sale, taking my half of whatever's left after the mortgage is paid and moving on w/my life, cause it can only get better. If I stay and keep doing this dance, it will only get worse. And always remember a key word after treatment - the possibility of "RELAPSE!!!" Do you want that hanging over your head for the rest of your life??? Good luck to you, I'll be thinking about you. Your posts have helped me alot.
Terri
I too can relate to that. I babysit my two grandkids at night after working a full time day job. They now live in a dingy basement apt. but were evicted this month and my daughter has to find a new place to live by the end of October. My house has been their only salvation, nice home, beautiful backyard with swingset and pool, their own room at my house, good food, nice toys, and I truly love my house with all it has to offer too, except my AH. I couldn't really afford to live on my own and pay rent in a nice area and have all I have now. I certainly couldn't give my grandkids what they have now. I have the medical taken out of my paycheck also for myself and AH. This is my second marriage, and at first I couldn't fathom the thought at another failed marriage. But you know what, I didn't fail at this marriage, HE FAILED ME. And in fact, I am going to be proud of myself when I do end this marriage, that I had the courage to do it and put myself and my grandkids first (who needs to grow up w/a drunk grandfather and seeing their grandmother put up with it). It possibly may create a cycle wherein they will follow suit. Do I want that for them? I have decided I am putting my house up for sale, taking my half of whatever's left after the mortgage is paid and moving on w/my life, cause it can only get better. If I stay and keep doing this dance, it will only get worse. And always remember a key word after treatment - the possibility of "RELAPSE!!!" Do you want that hanging over your head for the rest of your life??? Good luck to you, I'll be thinking about you. Your posts have helped me alot.
Terri
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by sunshine321
What do I want to accomplish by staying in this relationship? Ideally I would like if abf would get his act together and work the program and get sober. Then we could finally start working on the real issues underneath the alcohol. I would like for us to be a loving and happy family. One family, not separate. I hate that I cannot seem to give this to my children and I never expected to end up here. I guess I have to give up the dream I have in order to find the courage to move on with my life without an alcoholic. I know that I won't stay with abf if he doesn't get into treatment. I know that I will not live the rest of my life like this. I've already stated this boundary to abf. I just didn't give it a timeline because I can't. I'm just not ready yet. Thanks for all your help and support.
L
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by queenteree
This is my second marriage, and at first I couldn't fathom the thought at another failed marriage. But you know what, I didn't fail at this marriage, HE FAILED ME.
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
So true Barbara. I always worried about what others thought of me, but the ones that talk don't matter, the ones that matter don't talk. And AH did leave me a long time ago. When he went to rehab four months ago, he promised he'd do everything to not drink (did it once for 14 years), I gave him a second chance, he was actually a total sweetheart that I fell back in love with, until he relapsed three months later. Now I realize my dream will never be, at least not with him anyway. And I honestly believe this is a sign from my HP telling me so. Can't wait to see what the meeting topic is tonite (it seems it's all been fitting exactly and giving me messages).
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
One of the groups of people that I was concerned about, the congregation at my church. My AH was a member there years before me and I thought they would "be against" me for leaving him, let alone planning to divorce him. Much to my surprise, almost everyone has been very supportive and made comments along the lines of they are surprised it took me as long as it did to leave him. Of course, it would have been nice if they had talked honestly with me before the marriage but way too many folks just don't want to get involved and who knows if I would have listened anyway.
I still need to talk to our pastor since he apparently has been meeting with AH fairly regularly and seems to be supporting AH's fantasy that I will be coming back.
I still need to talk to our pastor since he apparently has been meeting with AH fairly regularly and seems to be supporting AH's fantasy that I will be coming back.
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
I'm also really surprised to learn that my close friends and own kids, and his own family, all who used to think that I should lighten up, accept him as he is, try and help him, try and talk me out of leaving him, are now truly saying "maybe it's time you leave." Or if I mention that I'm going to sell the house and divorce him, they say "can't blame you." You know it's gotta be bad when EVERYONE is agreeing with me.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Okanagan BC
Posts: 328
I find myself totally relating to your posts ladies. I put up with the cycle for a long time too. I think it is because when they are sober they are themselves, and we hope this was the last time. I told my BF each and every time that everytime he does this it puts me closer to having had enough and one day I would want to leave. Of course he understood... he would never do it again... well now I have told him it is over and he can't believe it is really over...just like that he says??
You'll put up with it until you don't. I too do not want to lose my house and back yard, location but now I think I am ready to do what it takes to be happy. Today he told me it won't matter if he stays clean because i won't believe him anyway. I said your right I probobly won't believe you, your actions will tell me not your words. This is my second relationship with an addict. I left my first one 11 years ago. I know I can do this! I think I can!
It is funny that once I started telling people that I was thinking I had to leave the relationship they said the same thing, I can't believe you stuck it out this long...it kinda tells ya something hey?
Thak god for this site, it is keeping me sane and strong. Thanks for your posts!!!
You'll put up with it until you don't. I too do not want to lose my house and back yard, location but now I think I am ready to do what it takes to be happy. Today he told me it won't matter if he stays clean because i won't believe him anyway. I said your right I probobly won't believe you, your actions will tell me not your words. This is my second relationship with an addict. I left my first one 11 years ago. I know I can do this! I think I can!
It is funny that once I started telling people that I was thinking I had to leave the relationship they said the same thing, I can't believe you stuck it out this long...it kinda tells ya something hey?
Thak god for this site, it is keeping me sane and strong. Thanks for your posts!!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
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Originally Posted by kj21
I told my BF each and every time that everytime he does this it puts me closer to having had enough and one day I would want to leave. Of course he understood... he would never do it again... well now I have told him it is over and he can't believe it is really over...just like that he says??
L
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