Layla2222

I have lots on my mind and just need to share…
Thanks for listening:wink2:

So today I wasn’t sure if this was a good idea or not…but I really missed my AH boyfriend, who was recently PUT into rehab.

I guess the whole visit--considering how it went---got me thinking:
***Can someone who says they want to quit but does not want to be in rehab, actually succeed?****

He had never done anything that I felt was intentional to hurt me—he never made any intentional actions or has said anything to me with the purpose of making me feel bad. He never called me names, never belittled me, never physically abused me, etc…Most of my hurt comes from disappointment, let downs, broken promises & such. Either way, I missed him, still wanted to be with him (the sober him) and felt/feel that—even though the pain he caused me was unacceptable—it wasn’t because he had the intention of hurting me in mind, and that my pain was a byproduct of his disease…maybe I am being naïve but whatever…but anyways, I went to see him today…

I had talked to him on the phone a couple times since he was admitted. The first time was not so good—he sounded frustrated and could “blow” (meaning mostly anger/screaming) at any second. The next ones got better…I set boundaries like, “I love you, I want to talk to you, but if you are going to yell I am going to hang up.” I would just repeat that same phrase and if he didn’t stop I would hang up…he actually apologized and stopped.

I was nervous to go—I didn’t know if I would be helping or hurting myself, as well as his rehab process by going there.

Well, in the end I thought it went actually went really well.When I walked in he was reading from the bible (just days before he hated God) and talking with some other patients (he has been making friends--or at least having conversations & playing cards with---the others there). He was really happy to see me...and seemed in a different mood than over the phone the last few days. I said he seemed to be doing a lot better today…He said he has had a lot of time to think, and is trying to make the best of being there--taking from it what he can. He told me that this is the first time he had been completely sober (free of all marijuana & alcohol) in about 2 1/2 years. Today he said his head felt clearer, he had taken
a shower today & he was getting his appetite back. (Before he refused to shower or change clothes for days as some sort of weird protest!)


He still doesn't like it there--and would leave today if he could--but admits he has a problem & being there has helping him. He says he's committed to staying sober (Although seemed surprised when I said--sober of everything? meaning marijuana too! He wasn't real happy--but not mad-- that I threw out his "stash". When I saw the look on his face I asked if he still wanted it? He said no, but wanted to sell it back....I guess it was worth a lot OH WELL!!) Anyways, he went to an AA meeting today in the clinic and said it went really great. He told me that he has a plan for when he gets out, which is called a "90 meetings in 90 days" plan--I'm assuming 90 AA meetings--everyday for 90 days.

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I have trying to let him be responsible for himself—by not thinking, “Oh! What if he needs a toothbrush, or clothes or whatever…” I figure, if he wants anything, he can ask for our help and then we will help. So I didn’t bring any (of what I would consider) necessities. But I did bring him a drawing a had done for him, and some photos of our pets, and pictures of us—also our mutual friend had drawn him a picture too and bought some candy for him, so I brought that. Oh, and a spiritual book of his. He was so appreciative, and kind, and he loved the drawings…

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Seeing the stuff our friends had made/bought him, he realized they must know where he was—and he asked what they knew about it. I was nervous to tell him—but I said, “they know everything & I needed them to know & be there to support me.” I was actually really surprised to see he wasn’t mad at all—he understood and wasn’t (too) embarrassed—We actually talked about how the root of embarrassment is seeing someone else judge you…and letting it effect your own self-worth…

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We talked about a lot of things…some things I wasn’t so sure we would talk about, as they were “touchy subjects” with him…but the conversations all went well! In everything we talked about, I made an effort to stop doing what I did so many times before…I never said --"you should do this" or "you should do that.”
I told him how I wont ever tell him what to do, and I was sorry about doing that in the past & making him feel like a child or inferior—from now on he makes all his own decisions and that is exactly how it should be.

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He brought up the living situation stuff (I posted about it before—but the short story is we were living together—now he’s in rehab & I can’t afford the rent by myself). The last time we talked about it, I told him I might have to move & he got mad at me! He thought I was trying to leave him—meanwhile I am thinking, you should be feeling bad that you left your girlfriend “up a creek”!

Well, this time it actually turned out to be a pleasant “normal” conversation. My dad has a lawyer friend who is willing to get us out of our current lease (Yea dad!!), and surprisingly he now agreed this was the best idea…

He suggested that when he is out, we move together to either my hometown area (or maybe to my parents house first for a while) or into his mom’s house. THIS WAS HARD, but I think it was a BIG step for me in the right direction… (now I just have to follow through):

I told him, “I don’t think either it is a good idea that we live together & you should live at your mom’s when you get out, and I will live at my moms for now. I don’t know what will happen later, but this is what we need to do for now…”

After I explained to him what I will explain below—he actually understood and agreed!!! WOW....

More in a few....

Layla2222

So....about not living together.....I told him how I have issues I need to deal with too—I am sick like him—and even explained a little. He had known about some of my issues from telling him about my past and AcoA stuff…I explained how codependent I have been on him & it isn’t healthy.

He told me, “My number one concern is you” & kept saying how much he loves me, I told him… “You can't love me like you want to until you can love YOU…and the same goes for me.” Bottom line: I explained & said, “My NUMBER ONE priority needs to be taking care of me—and your NUMBER ONE concern/priority needs to be taking care of you--your health, happiness and sobriety"

Again, he completely understood and agreed! I explained the BEST thing we can do for each other and for our relationship—is to take care of ourselves.

Now at first he was really scared again that I was breaking up with him by saying this, but he wasn’t mad or yelling this time—just looked sad & afraid. Well I took the great advice of a fellow Alanon man in my meeting last night and said—“I love you & I want to be with you” (because today, I do! And today is all I ever have to speak for). I don’t know what the future holds—it depends on so many things, but TODAY I love you & TODAY we are not breaking up. He ended up being totally understanding again!—and agreed that the best way we can help each other is by helping ourselves first…

We talked about other priorities too—not only taking care of ourselves, but I said spirituality is a priority for me. He told me his are: sobriety, taking care of himself, God, and me.


I also talked to him about each of us being more independent—in reading more about co-dependency I realized this is a BIG problem for us—and part of the problem to going right back to living together was that we would be in danger of isolating our selves again. I said I think we need space—not a break up, just space—to figure out what we want to do with our own lives & what makes us happy and healthy independent of one another. We need to get jobs we enjoy, making our own friends, our own decisions & our own lives happy first—and figure out the rest out later. He again, thought this was a great idea…he said he knows he needs new friends. We agreed if we ever want our relationship to work, this is what we need to do.

I also told him about some things I had come up with in the last couple days that have helped me, and maybe he would find them helpful—or maybe not—it is up to him…

I told him how—with the millions of questions floating through my head—I have trying to answer each one with this basic rule in mind: "What would be best for me? Or what would best suit my priorities? (Sobriety, recovery, God, etc…)

I also told him how I have been doing this for myself, and maybe it would help him: When you have a "break through" in your life, write it down & make a plan…For me, over the last couple days, thru SR and reading, there have been many of those “Ah-ha!” light-bulb moments. I started to think—I had these same light bulbs go off in my head the first time I began recovery—and I let them get away from me. I realized I need to take these “Ah-ha” moments—remember them and utilize them. This all stemmed from him telling me how yesterday, his therapist helped him realize he is a person who needs a lot of reinforcement…and for example, that is why he so often begins to think “God hates me” when things go wrong. I suggested that if he decided "reinforcement" would help him then write it down & come up with a plan to put structure/reinforcements in his life…

He also told me how he had been trying so hard to talk to a priest, and asked if I could ask his mom to get their priest to come in from his church (His mom had actually already asked the priest & he was very willing to come in. This priest is eager to talk to him—and has much in common with my AH—they are both war veterans and both suffer(ed) from Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome.
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Well the last good thing I thought we talked about is that I said to him, “We can talk about this later, but I have some boundaries to set & stick to this time.” He said how sorry he was for violating them before. I also said that there were some trust issues between us now…He wanted to know everything & anything he could do to fix the trust he violated. I just said, “Actions speak louder than words.”

There is also a possibility that he will be release within a week, so I had started to come up with my own “Bill of Rights” (as that one posting here says)…and I suggested he take some time to come up with his own needs and expectations. We agreed to do this, and share with each other later.

So overall, I felt really good when I left…despite a few things:
A. I love him & I want to be with him, but the past tells me, he’s lying! Don’t be fooled again. I hope I am not wasting more time.
B. He still holds immense anger towards his mom for “putting him there”. He said he had to be sedated yesterday because he was so mad.



***Question: Also, does anyone know how large of a roll anti-depressants play in suicide?? The day he attempted it and the other times he threatened to do it—he had suddenly stopped taking his anti-depressants & anxiety meds—saying he hated having to depend on pills (I think they make him feel weak/embarrassed/ and like less of a person because of their negative stigma). Isnt there suicide warnings all over the bottle? Could this be a large part of the attempts or would he have attempted anyways? Maybe that is an unanswerable question.....

Well, thank you for listening!!!
Much love & support,
Stephanie

Buffalo66

Stopping the use of anti depressant drugs can certainly cause suicidal feelings in people, and if not that, very serious mood swings, and severe anxiety. Yes, it is all over the bottle. I am sure that if he spoke to the therapist about that, they they would inform him of that danger.

I stopped using Zoloft abruptly once,b/c I couldnt afford my prescription, and my mind went bezerk(sp?). From what I understand there are other drugs, like Paxil,m or, celexa that can feel alot worse. You are supposed to wean down off of them very slowly.

It sounds like you were very clear, and stated youer boundaries. I always judged my interactions with my A by how I felt when I walked away... Did I lose anything to him? Did I lose ground? focus? energy? It sounds like you did great JUST for Today!!

congrats, and I hope he continues to do well.

mallowcup

When we love someone and the decisions being made for them could determine their future, it is our responsibility to step out of it and let the professionals handle it. In order to even consider his rehab outside a facility, you shouldhave no questions at all. You should not only have all those answers, you should be convicted about them.
If he unintentionally runs over me or kils my kids driving drunk, I don't really care what his intentions were.

DII

Layla, I have been to many rehab visits with my AW. Most were filled with remorse by my AW and yes they turn to the bible, exercise....you name it. The rehab is the EASY part believe it or not because they have SO much support. The tough part is when they enter their "real" life. In real life they have to maintain their recovery without as much supervision with the old temptations all around them. I have learned to see the signs that she is slipping. Feeling sorry for herself, angry at others that judge her, pretending everything is fine etc......

Remember it's not what the recovering alcoholic says its what they DO that matters. If you go by this rule you will never be disappointed....well you will but you will never be suprised at your disappointment!

denny57

Hi Stephanie. I understand your love for this man. I would think about exactly what you said - he has lied in the past; it is possible he is keeping up a front for you to get what he wants when he gets out - a place to live. I would take it very seriously that someone got so angry at their mother (or anyone/anything else) that they had to be sedated.

Take care of you and everything else will fall into place as it should.

((()))

embraced2000

my ex needed time to get the cobwebs outta his brain after detox and entering recovery......he could get very weird. i backed out of the situation, because there was no way he could handle the dynamics of a relationship and maintain his recovery at the same time.

i wish you well. take good care of yourself.

jeri

queenteree

Layla,
About 20 years ago, I left my husband (before he was my husband) for 3 weeks (we lived together). He drank himself almost to death and then went to rehab. While he was in rehab, I wrote him and told him the same things you did about not living together anymore, etc. We didn't for a full year before we became engaged, plus I was seeing someone else, and AH had to accept that too. AH remained sober for over 14 years (without a slip), we married, raised kids, etc. Then 5 years ago, he relapsed. He only got sober recently (5/27 went to rehab again) and he has relapsed already for 8 days, and is now back on the wagon. With alcoholism, there is always that possibility, and knowing what I know today, I probably would not have married him, cause frankly I'm sick to death of this alcoholism thing hanging over my head at all times. I do love him, he's a great husband and father, but it's draining at times.

Layla2222

Thank you everyone for all the advice/support/encouragement....

I am beginning to feel like crap today about all this stuff.....yesterday I got all "gung ho" or excited (for lack of a better word) about what I need to do & the "taking care of me" idea.....

Today, I am sitting here alone in my apartment feeling anger & sadness.

I am surprised at myself b/c usually I express my self in sadness, disappointment and hurt--usually crying.... But I have been feeling myself begin to fill with rage at times....

(We had just moved in a month ago) and I sit here looking at the accent walls I spent so long painting & how everything has finally been put away-- all organized in it's own little place-- and all the folded clothes in the drawers (mine & his)---all of which I did BY MYSELF (no help from him). And it makes me so mad that again--by myself--I will be packing it all back up & moving it.

And as I sit here alone, i feel overwhelming sadness for the "apartment that could have been"---all the plans and dreams I had for us living here--together. Now gone.

I feel regret for what I said yesterday--even though it is probably the right thing to do--but I feel like, I don't want to move away from him...why did I say that!?

How quickly I forget his behavior before he left.....My mind pushes those "bad nights" out, and I find myself sitting here crying and wishing he was sitting on the couch holding me as we watched movies together--like we used to do....I WISH he was here with me---but I am here and so alone.

To make it worse, I get so sad & I call him (in rehab)....and I think I half expect some sadness on his part--for me! ---but I don't get any.

Thanks for listening
Steph

dollydo

Would've, could've, should've....the watch words of both addicts and codies.

And,

If only, is what we codies cling to. But this is not reality, this is fanatsy..I too, engulfed myself in that thinking...then I woke up and realized that I was not doing the right thing for me, I was allowing my addict to take up way too much space in my mind, and, it was affecting my well-being, my future.

Vent away, I did. It did help me make the right choices for me....

ARealLady

((((Layla))))))))

I was curious so I went back and read some of your early posts on the other board about your struggle with being the child of an A, the work you had been doing on yourself with regard to co-dependency etc. And then there was a post about your ABF to whom you were becoming very attached. Even then, back in February, the RED FLAGS were all over the place in that relationship. And then little more until your posts here over the past few days.

I have to ask: Did you forget everything you had been learning about addiction, enabling and co-dependency? You mentioned in one post that you had read my all-time fav "Co-dependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Did you ever read her second book, "Beyond Co-dependency" where she talks at length about getting into relationships with inappropriate people....ADDICTS? Of course, I am the last one to talk because I had also read Beyond Co-dep when I was thick in my relationship with XABF. I "thought" that if he said he wasn't drinking, he wasn't....we were long distance. I "thought" that if he said he could control his drinking, he could. (I am not an A so I couldn't know what it is like to be an A. I drink socially but I never have to think about when I can have a drink or plan space in my day for drinking....never even crosses my mind!) Basically, I didn't have much of a clue about addictive behaviour. If I had taken Beattie's wisdom on board the first time I read Beyond Co-dep, I would have broken off the relationship immediately with XABF....the man, as wonderful as he is when sober and not that bad compared to some when drunk, is NOT relationship material until he has worked a 12-step programme for at least one year.

I sit here looking at the accent walls I spent so long painting & how everything has finally been put away-- all organized in it's own little place-- and all the folded clothes in the drawers (mine & his)---all of which I did BY MYSELF (no help from him). And it makes me so mad that again--by myself--I will be packing it all back up & moving it.

((((Layla)))))), it's just stuff at the end of the day. Get out of the lease (fingers crossed for you!), pack up YOUR stuff and move on with your life. Please do not listen to your BF's words because they are JUST WORDS. They get very remorseful in rehab and they know exactly what to say to keep US sucked into their drama. And some of them, like my XABF, even tell their SOs that they have just been through a rehab as a way of hooking us back in (XABF was in jail for DUI when he went silent for a week last spring....NOT rehab although...LOL...he probably managed to dry out!).

Please go back and read all your posts to these boards then think very, very hard about what your BF has put you through. XABF and I had dreams....his were alcohol fuelled and it took me some time to realize that. Coming here I learned that is the REALITY of life with an A. Lots of words. Little or no action.

ARL

Layla2222

Thank you again everyone--for the advice & support!

ARL~ Thank you also for the advice... you asked if I forgot the stuff I learned back in Feb. when I first started recovery....I actually had recently posted about that here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-question.html

But unfortunately the short answer is yes, i did let all those things I learned just slip away.... I got to a point where (I thought) everything was going good--and I didn't want to go back and read about painful memories, etc..... I realize I have to make a constant effort to work on these things now

I also have a question...you said there were red flags even back in February with my ABF....I am not being sarcastic at all when I ask this.... but I really want to know what the signs were....I honestly don't know??? Could you tell me? You can PM me or post it here or whatever if you want.... I didn't even think I wrote that much about him in those old postings.

Well, thank you again everyone & thank you for listening!
Much love & support,
Stephanie

ARealLady

I got to a point where (I thought) everything was going good--and I didn't want to go back and read about painful memories, etc

(((Layla))))))) and that is usually the point where it is going to help you the most! But I know what you mean. Things were GOOD (in my mind) with XABF and that is probably why I chose not to "listen" to the messages in Beattie's writings. I'd just come out of a long-term failed marriage to a workaholic. I had lived for nearly 25 years based on his moods, whims and needs. I had apologized for and to him, accepted his accusations about me and struggled to change myself for him. At the back of my mind, however, I kept wondering why I was surrounded by so many good friends and lifelong friends. How could I manage to be acceptable to others but not to the man to whom I was married? So, I was hurting when I fell in love with XABF and his "love" helped me ignore my problems. But they didn't go away because they re-surfaced once I was truly on the way to re-establishing a life of my own. In many ways I was just as bad relationship material as XABF was....he should have stayed away from me! But maybe he identified weaknesses in me and I seemed like a good match/enabler for his addiction. Because of the physical distance involved, I think it was during the times apart from him that I started to realize how much freer I was when I wasn't directly living with his alcoholism.

Here are two of your early threads from March and February this year where you talk about your BF. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1259887 and this http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1213230 . Have a read through and remember too how you felt at the time. I'm sure you can see all the red flags!

ARL

Layla2222

ARL,
Um WOW I forgot I posted those! But I didnt forget those incidents with him! I had been with him for about 2 years at that point....that was "the beginning of the end"
Thank you again for all your help & support!