Frog_2hop

I am the mother of two wonderful children ages 8 and 10, and the wife of an active addict )he has now been out of the house two years). His addiction started from the pain meds he needed from an injury that never went away, until the next injury and the next injury...you get the picture.

I believe that with everything you experience in life it either makes you stronger or it makes you weaker, nothing leaves you the same. I obviously want my children to become stronger as a result of this nightmare. I know I cannot protect them from everything but hope that with intentional efforts I can at least lessen the 13 characteristics listed in the stickies.

I want them to know it is right to wrap around family members that need help - but I'm needing to model boundaries instead. They are watching as I close the door to 'poor me' allowing their father to hit bottom. I want them to learn that feelings are okay and they should feel safe say, "hey that is not okay" when someone lets them down or lies to them....but when he doesn't show up for a soccer game, without calling or anything then later tells them he was sick or hurt or hadn't slept for days or whatever the excuse is - I can't call it for what it is in front of the kids without breaking that cardninal rule of not bashing the other parent in a broken family...am I teaching them to just allow the lies to happen without saying anything?

I don't know what is more damaging in the long run. I've tried to be honest without judgement. But that is easier said then done - that line is grey. I feel my son is learning to close up and just take whatever life throws at him in stride....kinda like the outter part of me has to model. I feel my daughter sees him as the 'poor me' that he portrays falling right into the pattern of wanting to rescue him.

I just thought that many of the readers on this site are adult children of addicts you might tell me what you wish your parents would have done or did do. Thanks.

best

Tell the children the truth always. Tell them the truth as they are able to understand it and handle it as well.

Dad has an illness and can't live here till...

and as they get older...

Dad has an illness call addiction...

and as they get older... explaining the how and why he may do or not do certain things.


Skirting an answer with... I don't know why he didn't show up....you would need ask him.
Such is a truth because you don't know why...you can only assume and most likely be correct.

As they get older, they can understand the dangers of drugs better as well....reasons to never start or even try it once... could get hooked.
Children see and understand a lot more then we give them credit for. Ask them the questions and you may find just how much they know.

GingerM

I think Best said it pretty well. I could always tell when my parents were lying to me or not telling me the whole truth - I believe that children of addicted parents are even more sensitive to those subtle communication cues people use because we had to be.

I remember feeling very betrayed and wondering why on earth they couldn't just tell me the truth - there was a big pink elephant in our living room and everyone kept saying it was just a sofa. No, no, it wasn't. It was a freakin' elephant. I wasn't stupid, even at 8 or 10. I wish that someone had had the strength to tell me "yes, what you're seeing is there, but we really need to wait until the elephant decides he wants to move, we can't move it on our own, it's too big for us".

Eventually, when I was nearly an adult, that did happen. In a way, that was even more disappointing to me, because it was proof that they had been lying to me all those years.

I don't like giving people parenting advice, but am happy to share what I distinctly remember feeling as a child in a similar situation.

Frog_2hop

Thanks for your replies. I feel that knowing what is was like to experience as a kid is far more helpful than any 'research' or 'parenting advice' out there. I know each person's situation and how they respond is different so I just want to hear what it was like and what you wish your parents would have done differently (or what you think they did well).

What I've explained is that medication is a scary thing because although it is very helpful and necessary, the ones that are used to kill pain effect the brain and if too much is used or it is used for too long, it can start doing the thinking for you...that is what has happened to Daddy. He has taken pain medication for so long that it has started thinking for him and telling him he needs more and more. I have tried to explain to them that the best way to help someone get back control of their thinking is to make sure all the problems the medication causes for them is not fixed by people around them. That when people are sick, it depends on what the problem is on how we help them. To help Daddy best we need to make sure we take care of us, because we are so important to him and he would want us to stay healthy and strong. We need to make sure we do not let any of the drug use hurt us, only him so he has the best chance of taking back over his thinking. We need to pray for him and trust that God is taking care of him and will take care of us too.

However, this just feels wrong...it feels like I'm teaching the kids that when someone in our family gets sick - boot them out, let them struggle, let them fall flat and keep living our own lives. Yuck! That is not what I want my kids to learn. BUT I also don't want them to think they can control or fix anything for him.

Thanks again for the replies - the more thoughts, perceptions, and experiences the better!!!

DesertEyes

Hi there Frog, and welcome to this little corner of recovery

I have a couple things to add to the excellent suggestions above.

Have you looked into al-ateen? It's a part of al-anon and operates at the same time as regular al-anon meets. The program is designed to do exactly what you are asking, and is run by other parents who are in al-anon. I've seen a number of kids attend a few meetings here in town and the difference is amazing. Once they have a group of their peers to share with they "get it" so quickly, and so well. I strongly recommend it. You can find them in your phone book under al-anon.

Yeah I think you're right about that. I think what you're missing is one step farther into the "disease concept". We don't boot out our "A" because they are sick. We boot them out because they refuse to follow doctors orders and take the actions necesary to get well. They refuse to be responsible for their own actions and do the thing necesary to get well. If they _did_ take those actions... well then they would get well.

Do you see where I'm going with this? See if that concept would fit with your kids. I've known a lot of parents here take that approach and it works for them.

Oh yeah, as far as the most damaging thing in the long run, for me it was the feeling that my mother was not willing to do _anything_ about my father's drinking. Any action would have been better than none. It's clear to me that your kids are going to grow up just fine, because you _are_ taking action, and because it is so obvious that you love them.

Welcome again, and keep tossing out your questions, that's what we are here for

Mike

Frog_2hop

Thanks Mike for your response. I have tried to find alateen or similar programs here in our town but there aren't any. We did attempt to do a program through our church because of the lack of that kind of program in town but it was a flop. It was missing the 'get it' factor.

I am 100% in agreement that the part I'm missing is making sure the 'booting him out' part is because of his lack of doing what has been put in front of him over and over as opportunities to get better, not because he is sick in the first place.

Now the questions I have are how do I do that without 'bashing' him. As I think about ways I can communicate that message or at least make a point of not covering that message as he communicates it so often on his own, I feel like I'm bashing him. He is so 'poor me' about everything that I would have to clarify the facts to the kids or point out lies/exaggerations/twisted facts for them to see that it is actually him not doing what is necessary. That feels wrong. That feels ugly. That feels like X-bashing - a game I refuse to play for obvious reasons.

I fell for his 'poor me' act for year. I know how easy it is to believe because you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was my husband, I love him and how could he possibly not be honest. I was on protective mode. If it was that strong for me to fall into, man o mighty it would be easy to fall into as a kid. I attempt to protect them from even hearing his lies so he can't trigger the protective mode in them through his illness - but by doing so I'm also stopping them from experiencing the truth, if they could 'get it' inthe first place.

I wish I could implant truth into them without bashing. I wish I could go inside their precious brains and put a screen inside that filters out the lies and sees things on their own for what they really are.

The logically part of me things they need to figure that out on their own. They have to be burned enough times and catch them enough times to see things for how they really are - HOWEVER that is when the damage is happening to them. I don't want his ugly choices to damage them.

I have been a broken record in saying that with all things we experience they will make us stronger or weaker, but they will never leave us the same - we can choose how we let them effect us. I pray that this bottom line messge will put a shield around them. Maybe it will allow those ugly things to come their direction and I'm there to provide them with the support on the lasting effects rather than me protecting them from experiencing them int he first place.

That make sense to me, but then again, when the rubber hits the road - the moment to moment issue, I struggle to know what to say, what to tell them, what truths to allow them to know vs saying that is a big person issue?

best

Hate the sin not the sinner.

Or to put it in context here...
The actions, not the person are what is unacceptable.

Because drugs make some people act poorly....
Because of poor choices...
Because improper actions...

As for programs that could be used at your church... Celebrate Recovery and Alcoholics Victorious are a couple of nice programs you may want to look at.
A bible ref. that also fits the situation..Matthew 18:15-20...(paraphrased) tell them once, tell them a second time and if they still don't get it... remove them so that they may see what they are missing and may find the answers that return them to proper actions.

DesertEyes

"Bashing" is all in the tone of your voice. Your kids are not dummies, they _know_ you far better than you think. If you work your own recovery so that _your_ heart is free of resentment or revenge, then you won't have to worry about "bashing". It'll take care of itself.

That is _exactly_ what you are doing. Kids learn by example, not by words. They see how _you_ act, how _you_ protect yourself and them, they see how _you_ don't believe his words. That is how they are going to learn lies from truths, by watching what _you_ believe.

Yes, I understand. I helped raise a very troubled teenager. That struggle that you feel? We _all_ feel that. I don't think there is a way to know _for sure_ that what we are doing is always the right thing. What I have done is simply do my best, and let God take it from there. After all, my daughter is really His kid, He just put me in her life because He needed somebody to raise her.

You know, Ms. Frog The more I chit chat with you the more I think that you are doing just fine by your children. You love them, you worry about them, and you are doing your best for them. When they're grown ups, having their own kids, they will not remember the details of their childhood. They won't remember the words. What they will remember is the _feeling_ of being loved and cherished. _That_ is what makes the difference, and you're doing that just fine.

Mike

Frog_2hop

Thanks Mike. You make some really good point about how they are learning what they need to by watching me. This is something I thought I'd never ever have to face and I hate the thought of raising kids in a broken home. I come from a family, although not perfect, that has no divorce, not addictions as far wide as we can see. To me, divorce was not an option. I always felt there is nothing that couldn't be fixed if we both tried hard enough - well I was wrong. I think that is why I question my trusting that it will all be okay with for the kids. I think no matter how perfect of a childhood a kid has, as an adult they can always look back at something they are dealing with and attribute it to how they were raised. I know mine will did that too, I just want them to have the 'normal' gribes about childhood - not the garbage that comes along with having a dad as an addict.

My oldest has said some amazing things in the last two years that Dad has been out of the house. He doesn't 'talk' muck about it, which is okay, but when he does it is profound. I think he sees the lies for what they are. With him, as he shares his thougths I try to acknowledge it, commend his thinking but I don't add my 'thoughts'. For example, one day he asked, "Mom, if someone takes more medicine then he is suppose to, does that make it a drug?" I answered by saying, "Sounds like that is something you've been thinking about for a while, what do you think?" He said, "I think it does." And we left it at that. Another time we were talking about the stages of grief that comes even from change and we were comparing what stage each of us thought we were in. My daughter (7 at the time) said denial because she can't believe Daddy is really gone. My son (then 9) said, "Nope, I think we were all in denial when he still lived in our house." WOW!!!!! How right on was that??!?!?

My youngest, however, thinks her Daddy walks on water. Whenever things are upside down because of something he did or didn't do, she is oblivious to the cause and even says, "Call Daddy he'll come fix it." He has been down since she was born so she has never even witnessed him well enough to fix anything in her life. When she asks me why Daddy hasn't shown up for this or that, I used to find a way to cover so not to hurt her but now I just say, "I'm not sure, you'll have to ask him." That is hard because I know I'm setting her up to be hurt but I 'think' it is better that she 'gets it' then to be blinded by the truth. Of course she never asks him. She just thinks she is in heaven everytime she does see him so she doesn't want to bring up times that he wasn't doing what he should have. This scares me. It is so much of what I used to do when he was in the house. I didn't approach things while he was drugged out because there was no sense talking about it then...but when he was clear I didn't want to rock the boat so things he did just went unmentioned. Now I don't mention it much either because it us useless to. Asking why he didn't do this or that just opens up an opportunity for him to lie. I just protect myself with boundaries that the least amount of his choices have a direct impact on me. I fear that I am watching her become a little codependent at such a young age. I never want her to live in the heck that I've lived the last 16 years....

Thanks so much for your thoughts and encouragements. I need to trust that God will take care of the details that I have no control over. I need to stay faithful to follow His guidance and know He sees every detail.

DesertEyes

well... the question here is whether _he_ tried hard enough, or at all. I'm not so sure you were wrong, I think _he_ didn't step up to his half of the marriage vows.

Depends on whether you look at the glass half full or half empty. I see kids that are going to grow up knowing that they are loved, and having a role model of strength, honesty and independence. You know, that's more than a lot of kids _without_ a drug addict father will ever have.

yeah, me thinks you've done a fine job there

Absolutely. Dont' add to the hurt she will have someday by lying to her now.

That's hard to do when your up to your rear in alligators That's why there's al-anon and nar-anon and ala-teen and this website and so many of us willing to help each other out. You just keep posting here and we'll all get thru life together

Mike

Opus2

Frog your kids are tough, and IMHO based on experience - they need to know the truth, however you need to tell them and in a way that's appropriate to their age. The truth has got to be better than feeling/sensing something but being told something else. It messes you up later in life ... something i have first-hand knowledge of.

Frog_2hop

Opus, Your comment about them feeling/sensing something and being told something else is a good point. I feel like I can use that as my guage of knowing what to tell them and what not to and at what stage. They are kids and don't need the burden of big people's ugliness. I've always promised myself that although their might be things I choose not to share, I would never 'lie' to them. If they are feeling/sensing, a lack of facts opens the door to their imaginations to fill in the pieces....that is never good. I feel good about that being my guage on when to and what to share - if it is something they'll feel or sense I need to give them facts - non-judgmental, non-criticizing, none-blaming facts. Then I need to provide them with safe people to share their feelings with beyond me so they are free to process any emotion they want without feeling like they need to be loyal or tough one way or the other.

Mike, Thanks again for the encouragement. Sometimes it helps to have others point out the glass half full part. My kids are great, they are strong and happy. I need to remember that and keep plugging away. Do you have kids? You sound so grounded and 'real'.

DesertEyes

* lol * If I'm grounded and real it's only because of these wonderful programs of recovery

My ex-wife came pre-equiped with a very troubled 14yr old daughter. She was quite a challenge. Today she's a charming and awesome young lady with 4 kids of her own, a wonderful husband, a huge house and a small business she runs with hubby. Oh yeah, and two dogs *lol* I tell her that the only regret I have in life is that considering how good she turned out I can't claim that it was my genes

Mike

Opus2

Frog your approach sounds awesome, it's easy to see that you've been doing a lot of work on this and are in tune with your kids' needs. Hang in there!!

fairyprincess

My grandmother raised me and she just kept telling me that my mom was sick because of the alcohol and I just had to look over her...meaning she was doing these things because of a disease she couldn't do anything about...As I got older, I saw her go through rehabs and come off the bus and get drunk before we could pick her up....I wrote her off emotionally, and your children will too, they will become teenagers and worry about themselves and they won't take time to worry about him...as long as you keep a stable loving home, the affects will minimize. When they are older they may ask their dad those questions, I did....I felt sorry for my mom but I figured she's an adult, she makes her own decisions and I am so better off to not be a part of them...good luck...kids need most unconditional love, and stability...

CaliGirl1234

I am in my early 20's and my father has been an addict since before I was even born. I remember the very first time I realized what was going on, I was around 7, and I was watching TV with my dad, and he just got up and left, and I was home alone for the rest of the night. Didn't know how to call my mom at work cause I was too young. My parents are still together, but he is still an active addict, and I think they might be ending it very soon.

The one thing I wish that would've happened is that I wish my mother kicked him out. The worst thing that she ever did was allow this to continue, because now it has snowballed. Also, I recommend telling children not to worry about hiding it and making up stories about why your addicted parent acts the way he acts. I was very relieved when I finally got the courage to tell my closest friends about what I was going through. One of the hardest parts when I was a teenager was having to lie about why my father didn't pick me up from school, or why he went by my friends' houses asking their parents for money.

Just don't put yourself in a bubble for too long, or you'll never let yourself get out of it. You have to realize how to break free. Because the bottom line is, while it is your problem, it's NOT your problem.