Wouldn't you think I'd know SOMETHING by now?? ARRRRGGHHH!

Old 05-28-2003, 01:35 PM
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Wouldn't you think I'd know SOMETHING by now?? ARRRRGGHHH!

I swear, I USED to think I had common sense but the more I'm having to deal with all this mess, I'm really beginning to question my judgment.

Ok, I want honest, BRUTALLY honest opinions here. I have my seat belt buckled and I'm bracing myself.

I called the daughter's counselor yesterday (hold on, don't go crucifying me YET... ) to ask her a few legitimate questions or what I thought were legitimate questions: For instance: questions about family week and just what goes on, suggestions on where to stay, how to handle sending need $ to my daughter and......this is the clencher, to ask if certain parts of the rehab program were definitely going to be incorporated into my daughter's recovery...i.e., budgeting and transition back into real world and relapse therapy. I was never told so I thought I'd ask.

Now I don't claim to be the brighest bulb on the tree but doesn't it make sense that if my daughter is there because of a relapse, relapse prevention would definitely be something they would want to work on with her? (Everyone shake you head, "Yes, Hangin', yes."...lol) Ok, simple enough. So I asked that question. Counselor said, "Well relapse prevention usually comes in Phase II and since Dr. M said your daughter could go home in 45-60 days we'll just have to work some of that into her Phase I." Hmmmmmmm. So just to make sure I understood I said, "So relapse prevention is in Phase II but she will be coming home before ya'll normally reach Phase II?" She said yes but they could incorporate some (hear that??....'some') into Phase I. Ok, I let that one go.

Then I asked about the budgeting and transitioning back into everyday life. Guess what...that comes in Phase II but was told again they could probably incorporate 'some' of that into Phase I, also.

I told the counselor that in NO WAY was I calling to tell her what kind of time frame I THOUGHT my daughter should be on but more to tell her of things her dad and I had seen that definitely could use some work. I said and I quote, "You and the doctor's are the professionals and I am not trying to tell you how to run your program. I know ya'll know best." She said "Yes ma'am" (and I know why...she's young enough where I could have birthed her!) and said she would relay my concerns to the doctor. She also said she really didn't get to call the shot on how long my daughter is there, that the doc does that. I told her that was fine by me but would she please just tell him of the areas where her dad and I thought she could use some work. I told her "45 days, 60 days, 3 months, 6 months. Whatever ya'll say goes." And please notice that budgeting doesn't have anything to do with me trying to tell her how to 'work her program'. And relapse prevention....well, to me that is just a no brainer.

So guess what? Daughter calls today, not in a good mood and sad, saying she is just so lonely and wants to come home. (Has she forgotten that she HATES living at home?....big sigh) Then she proceeds to tell me that the counselor told her I called yesterday and then got to the point she really wanted to make.

"Mama I think you are trying to tell them how to run my program."

Well, well, well, here we go again, for the millionth trillionth time!

I remained calm because I know she is unhappy. I talked to her about her needing to be there and she agreed. Part of her was just plain sad and still adjusting and the other part was mad at me for calling and voicing my concerns. I know what is all behind this. She is so fearful that she will have to stay longer because her dad and I have said we think she could use relapse prevention and budgeting/transition help.

I made it clear to her that I called yesterday to ask the counselor, "Will she be able to get these things because we think they will be helpful." Counselor told my daughter I called and daughter heard "Mama is trying to tell them what to do."

Where is the blasted, dern book that tells me how to do this correctly??? I honestly, honestly, HONESTLY know by now that I cannot work her program. And I HONESTLY called the counselor yesterday with concerns but I was not (or at least I think I wasn't but now I question every dern move I make) trying to tell them how to treat my daughter.

This is all so stupid! I know some of ya'll are saying, "Oh hush, Hangin'. Be thankful your daughter is in treatment." I am, I am, believe me, I am! I guess I'm just so sick of worrying about every word I say to anyone involved in her treatment, including her. Can't a mom call the counselor to basically say, "Hey, we'd like to get the most bang for our buck while she's there" without being accused of trying to work her program?

I'm serious. I'm so confused now as to what is genuine concern and what is working her program. I swear, I might not have been the valedictorian of my class, but I used to pride myself on having common sense. And NOW, this *@&$#^@ disease is making me question even that!

And thanks if you've read this far. I owe ya'll big time!
(Now going to sit back and wait to see if the "Big Kahuna's" step in to answer this one. Seems they always respond to the sickest and I think I win the prize!!! Bring it on, Big Kahuna's. I need help!!!)
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:43 PM
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Hi Hangin In,

There really isn't much You can do except work YOUR Alanon program. Whatever happens, happens while she's in rehab and when she's out. Everything will fall into place ONLY if SHE wants it to.

Ngaire
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:38 PM
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Hangin,

I know what you mean about common sense. I thought I could intuit what was the right and wrong things to do and say, but NEWSFLASH....I can't. And part of that is because of MY codependence. Old habits are hard to break but they can be broken.

As for that book....you didn't get your copy??

Let's see, if memory serves, in chapter one it says that rehabs don't ask for your opinion. I wanted to know the same things you do and Pernell told me very nicely that those things are covered.

Oh and in the last chapter of that book? It says in bold print. It aint over until they decide it's over! There is nothing the center can do except give her the tools and the strength to do it when she is ready.

So grab a mint julip, a juicy novel and climb in that porch rocker and try to get her off your mind. She is in God's hands.

Hugs,
JT
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Old 05-28-2003, 07:17 PM
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JT, well put! What a way with words.

Sorry I really don't have any more input, but just wanted you to know that I did read to the bottom and You and your Daugter will be in my prayers.

See ya on the front porch, Constant
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Old 05-28-2003, 08:43 PM
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(((((((Hangin' in)))))))))))

Stupid Counselor! Now why would they relay that tidbit of information--did they think it would HELP her recovery! They did not have to tell her you called! Geesh!

I think you explained it well to your daughter, when you talked to her, and I'm sure she understood.

Now, as for the book........... Personally, I think we should have all received one that starts out with how to change diapers without getting anything on you, and ends with when they take your car keys away and start driving you where you need to go........ This is not an easy job! And, did you ever wonder why they expect the little darlings to sit behind a steering wheel, with a fresh new picture of themselves on their driving permit, and you shaking like a leaf on the passenger side? How many good drivers do you know? How many bad drivers do you know? Well, those bad drivers are teaching their kids to drive--without a book! Yikes!

I think JT gave you some good information. I know I'd be tempted to call, I'm not a very good "sit back and do nothing" kind of person, so I sure can't fault you for calling--though I'm sure everyone would say to sit tight. Don't beat yourself up. Just have patience that God will take care of it. You are in my prayers.

Lyn
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Old 05-28-2003, 11:20 PM
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Hi Hangin In,
It was great to hear from you...

A question for you: What would happen if your daughter went to treatment, and you WEREN'T involved at all? You didn't know when she began, when she got to leave... you didn't know of her fears about being there, and in response, you didn't feel scared FOR her... You had no idea how the program worked, what the counsellors were like, what the agenda was... what if you didn't even know she was there?!

Would the outcome be the same? Chances are, that if recovery is going to WORK for your daughter... if she is ready... that it will happen whether YOU want it to or not.

Remember it is all up to HER.

My thoughts are with you
many hugs
Meg
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Old 05-29-2003, 06:00 AM
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What do you mean Rehab's don't want MAMA'S (my) input? Well, what in the heck is wrong with them????? Don't they know that I went through the valley of the shadow of death to give birth to this youngin' and that I've watched her grow for near 21 years and that I know things that she needs, that I just KNOW, KNOW, KNOW?????????????

A friend helped me see that maybe I wasn't totally in the wrong yesterday. I called the rehab place to talk to them about what THEIR program offers and to share with them what aspects of that program I/we felt would benefit our daughter. Afterall, we have lived with her for 20 years and have seen where she needs help....ie. budgeting and managing her money. That was asking about their program, NOT working my daughter's program. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Now that I have that clear in my mind, I will clear it up for my daughter and the counselor IF the counselor and I ever have reason to talk again. She's hoping NOT, I'm sure....LOL
(Can see her now. Phone rings, she looks at caller ID. "OH NO! NOT HANGIN' IN AGAIN!!!!!!!!"... )

But on the other hand, ya'll convinced me that I just need to back off. (Dad gum it, why did I have to ask ya'll's opinion?...lol)

So ya'll being the good friends that you are, which one of you wants to glue my fanny to this chair and take my phone away? I don't do the 'sit back and do nothing' thing very well either, Lyn...

Hey, ya'll don't ALL have to rush forward for this job!.... I see JT heading toward my fanny with a hot glue gun...YIKES!!!!!
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Old 05-29-2003, 07:07 AM
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LOL - Lyn, we're not changing diapers anymore, but we're still getting "it" on us.

Hangin', I love ya lady, and I know the turmoil.....but repeat after me...oh let's say 150 times....

"Hands off the Addict", "Hands off their recovery" "I am Powerless", "Let Go and Let God" "The birthin' is OVER - let them walk"...and a new one, related to diapering..."Don't get any on ya".

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot...."When in doubt, DON'T".

Sending hugs and prayers. Don't make me come down there!!

Lova ya.
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Old 05-29-2003, 08:02 AM
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LOL...okay, alright already, Ann! Darn, you are just NO fun! If I admit the birthing process is over then I don't get to whine about it anymore! Geeze, I never knew people in recovery were so outspoken and opinionated (me excluded, of course...lol.) Maybe I should have EXPECTED these responses since I did come to a message board and ask ya'll's opinion?

(Hmmmm. Note to self: "Hangin, Don't ask for advice if you don't want to listen." )

Ann, when is read the last line of your post it reminded me of what I used to say. Heck, I STILL say it. "Don't make me stop this car!"....

Ok, I WILL take ya'll's advice and I'm taking it to work with me. I work with Mr. Hangin' In. (I'm the boss, he just doesn't know it...lol.) I just hope and pray I don't get confused today.

"Hello, HANDS OFF THE ADDICT , uh, er, I mean, good afternoon, Mr. Hangin' In's Office. Oh hello, Mrs. Snodgrass. What? You say Mr. Hangin' In didn't return your call yesterday? Hey, what can I say? I'm POWERLESS. I say don't worry about it, Mrs. Snoddy baby. Just LET GO AND LET GOD. But I'll speak with Mr. Hangin' In regarding those papers you want us to draw up. And in the meantime, DON'T GET ANY ON YA!"

Yep, I think this just might work. And if it doesn't, well it at least it won't be the same ole boring day at the office....
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Old 05-29-2003, 09:18 AM
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OMG! Hangin', you are too funny,

I love that you have a sense of humour... can you pass it over? I would love to be able to "laugh things off".

"whats that honey? you spent all our life savings, your in jail, and you don't love me anymore???"
"HA HA HA HA! Oh well... I'm hungry, whats for lunch?"

As much as I DIDN'T want to come across as an advice-giver earlier, I think that I made you feel a little less than adequate... I apologize. I agree with Ann on the "hands off" thing, but YOU know how much is too much... Don't think I gave you enuf credit.

After all, what do I know?! I've only been in recovery for a year! you guys are old hands at this

Take care, and let us know how things are going...
Love Meg
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Old 05-29-2003, 09:33 AM
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I feel confused about all the phasing stuff, shouldn't the whole
program be geared for recovery : in the real world !! not just in phase 2 or whatever??
Hangin I think your doin just fine, so you had some questions and why the heck not,who's paying here ?
but.....you need to relax and let the show go on without you. it will you know. and you know that too!
try and not get any on Ya !
Hugs
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Old 05-29-2003, 10:53 AM
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i don't think you're totally out of bounds

If you're footing the bill, you should know what you're paying for. Just like with any other major purchase. (I never paid for rehab, but I suspect it ain't cheap.)

Problem may be that your questions might have been better posed and answered prior to your daughter enrolling in the program. You're in a situation where the horse is already out of the barn....

I don't have kids myself, but I can only imagine how your heartstrings get pulled. Take care that maybe your daughter is aware of how to play you like a harp. The nature of this illness/disorder is that they are very self-absorbed and manipulative.... I know that you know that..... but just thought I'd send a gentle reminder.

Take care
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Old 05-29-2003, 10:58 AM
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Hi Hangin' in.

You could have titled this thread "C'mom and tell me what I already know". I know exactly where you're coming from. When Dino got into treatment, I couldn't understand how in the world they intended to fix him if they didn't know what I knew. From what he told me, I KNEW he wasn't telling them everything. But it seems that, just like his falling down was a progressive thing, the getting back up was gradual and progressive, too. He dealt with things a chunk at a time and I imagine that was because it was too much to face all at once. It certainly made ME a mess trying to handle all his problems at once. LOL

A thing that helped me to let go was imagining this scenario. The gang here have more or less been my counselors, so my imaginary saga took place here. What if Dino had come here and told everybody what's wrong with me and what needed fixing? Dino is not that kind of guy, so it really was a forced thought... but what if... what if Dino acted like me? I had all the denial anybody could hope to have. What if it had been reinforced with defensiveness? I have had the luxury of facing myself in my own good time with the gentle help of people who have been through the same things. I know how impatient you feel. Dino's problems were URGENT after all. He needed to fix them NOW so I could be okay. But my okay has to come from inside me, and I had to recognize the urgency myself. If it works that way for me, then I have to reconcile myself to the fact that it works that way for him, too. And while it's true that I can recount events, causes and effects are surmises and suppositions and his are probably as good as mine. Boy, was that hard to swallow.

Hugs,
Smoke
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Old 05-29-2003, 11:00 AM
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LMAO . I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Mr. Hangin's office.
Poor Poor Mr. Hangin' - dealing with his ladies and all of us too. I think we will start a board just for him. We'll call it the "And All Us Other Poor Souls Who Have To Deal With It" board, or maybe the Anon-Anon board.

My poor husband just throws up his hands and says" you been on that computer again honey??" .

"Hello, Mr. Hangin's office..."

"No, Mr. H. has a headache and can't find the cold pack"

"What happened?...."He got some on him"

"I'd help you myself, but I am hot glued to my seat, so you'll just have to "keep it simple".
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Old 05-29-2003, 11:09 AM
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Oh Oh - When Smoke and I cluster post at the same time, you know you're in doo doo .

Actually, I love Smoke's answer. When I think about what she said, I would have been horrified to have had to deal with it all at once. And if I can't handle it all, how can I expect him to? Yup - good answer Smoke.
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Old 05-29-2003, 09:43 PM
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Oooooooooooooo, cluster post by Smokes AND Anns? See, I told ya'll I was in need of SERIOUS help!...

Ok, first things first.

1. I DID NOT speak to the counselor today...only to her answering machine.... ... . Well, what's a mama to do?????? Seriously, it was short and sweet. "Please let my daughter know that I was only calling to find out about the aspects of the program ya'll offer, NOT to try and work her program. And I realize you and Dr. M are in charge, and I'm thankful for that. I don't want responsibility for any of the recovery decisions. Have a nice day. Talk to you later." (And her immediate thought to my last sentence was, "NOT if I can help it!"...lol)

2. I did talk to Mrs. Snodgrass and I don't think she had a clue as to what I was talking about. Some folks are soooooooo slow...

3. Just to give proper credit where credit is due, Mr. Hangin' In is an official, card carrying member of Al Anon, too. He doesn't miss a meeting. So when I was on the phone with Mrs. Snodgrass, he was on the phone, calling our Pastor, "Hello, Rev. Scott. Could you please come to the office quickly? It's an emergency. Hangin' In needs special spiritual counseling on how to Let Go and Let God.".... (I have a feeling it's going to take fasting and praying to get me to catch on to "Let Go and Let God" and I'm not one who likes to miss a meal. This doesn't look good...lol.)

Ok, back to the responses:

Meg, no need to apologize. I honestly don't get offended easily and had to go back to read what you wrote to see what you thought made me feel less than adequate. I wasn't feeling less than adequate, but now that you mention it...lol. Naaaaaaa, no problem, really.

Liddy, I'm with you....Phase I, Phase II. Shoot, all of this is leaving me in a phase or is that DAZE?...lol

Eyes, I would have asked questions about rehab prior to her going into treatment but, honestly, I had very little time. We had to strike while the iron was hot, as they say, and get her there while she was willing as she started hedging a couple of times. Plus her outpatient doctor was recommending this place and we trust him very much. I got as much info as I could before we had to fly out.

Smokes, so the bottom line is maybe I should play a little 'role reversal' in my head and realize that my daughter has to realize for herself the urgency of her problem. No amount of urgency on my part for her to 'get it' is going to make it happen any quicker. Am I getting this?.... She nor I got to this point overnight and neither one of us is going to get better overnight. But my timing isn't her timing and visa versa. I have to be 'okay' inside of me whether she is where I want her in her program or not. (Like how I'm thinking this through outloud? I think I'm having my own counseling session...lol)

And Anns, Mr. Hangin' would probably love that "All Us Other Poor Souls Who Have To Deal With It" board even though he is a Al Anon member in good standing. Our personalities and temperments are SO different and I just frustrate the tee whatty out of him when I'm so stressed over our daughter. He's so laid back that sometimes I just have to check to see if he has a pulse!...

Thanks guys. Again, I say...."Ya'll are the best." I honestly don't know what I'd do without the support I get here.

P.S. Is is coincidence that today's reading in Courage to Change said the philosophy of Al Anon boils down to 4 words, "Mind Your Own Business"? This maybe, just MAYBE, possibly, could be, might be my HP saying, "Hangin', don't make me hit you over the head with a 2 x 4!" I think I just heard my HP sigh deeply. Looks like I'm good at frustrating the tee whatty out of Him, too.... I'm blessed He hasn't kick me to the curb, so to speak....lol.
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Old 05-30-2003, 05:40 AM
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Hangin'In,
I can't thank you enough for this post. Wow. I would have been right with you in "talking" to the counselors etc. When my son had trouble in school a couple of years ago I stepped in and tried to "manage" him out of the problem. This only made the situation worse and everyon tense and me half crazy. Finally I steped back and let him manage his own way. It turned out fine and he is graduating high school next Monday!

Smoke, thanks so much for your response. How true. My husband more than anyone else COULD outline my problems, my issues and probably what needed to be done to correct each one. Oh boy, if he was that kind of guy I would probably have high tailed it out of here long ago!!! I want to get better and improve but only on my schedule!! LOL. Lets not move too fast. I may just want to wallow once more in that river of pity, or go on a last spending spree!!! I will try to remember this when I feel the URGENT need to get hubby fixed and fast!!! Maybe the URGENT need in inside me.

And the sense of humor, I am with you EmotionalMeg, boy do I wish I had a better sense of humor. Thanks again this has been just what I needed. Ok I am putting it on my white board: Mind your own business. My coworkers are going to be looking at me funny today!!!!!!!LOL
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Old 05-31-2003, 10:00 PM
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I only have one thing to say to you people.......

THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING!!!!

One more time life has been happening around here faster than I can keep up with it so I came to this thread behind the horse and the cart.....BUT I did need to be reminded that I can laugh and be happy no matter what is happening around me....

Hang in YOU' RE DOING GREAT....

My sponsor keeps reminding me, especially when I think I am doing everything wrong....THERE ARE NO MISTAKES IN GOD'S WORLD....I am right where I need to be ... to get to where God needs me to go.....

Take care and God bless you all this is the first time today I've even smiled and YOU'RE ALL to blame...Thank you.
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