Paulie

Okay - I am posting this cause I need to get it out.

Recently I posted here that I had a normal childhood, then I went on to post how I watched my mom have a nervous breakdown. A dear friend her replied to me that there was nothing normal about that and she was right. but let me tell you, did I go into a tail spin. All kinds of memories came flooding back to me not just about the breakdown my mom had but all kinds of stuff. And I got angry. Angry with my parents for not realizing what impact things had on me as a kid. i didn't talk to my mom for 3 days last week, poor thing didn't know what the heck was going on. That is not normal for us.

Now, don't get me wrong I don't blame them for anyting, I know that they did the best they could, and I really am not angry with them but I am angry with things that happened if that makes any sense. I mean who could not see that this little girl of 10 or 11 watching her mom go through this would not be affectd by it.

I can tell you that it makes me look at my relationship with pauls kids in a totally different way. And I guess that is what it is about, learning from what happened in the past.

I just wanted to post this, don't know why, but that is the great thing about this site, I don't need a reason .

journeygal

(((((((Pauline)))))))

You know Pauline, that whole anger thing.....I remember when I first started confronting my childhood and my relationship with my mom and started realizing where a lot of my issues come from. I got angry too. And I was really angry at my mom. I remember her phoning me once and I was very short with her, to the point where she actually asked me what was wrong, said I sounded funny. It was a while before I could talk to her again normally.

The thing that makes me the most angry is the fact that all along I've assumed there was something wrong with me to make my mom not love me enough. And once I realized that it wasn't me, but her own personal demons, I was soooo pissed. I still am. I don't blame her for it, but like you said, I'm angry at the things that happened. I'm angry that I have spent 33 years thinking it was me. And I guess I still am angry at her b/c she still does her best to convince me that it IS me, by always being so critical of me. It's hard to keep telling myself that she has her own problems when instead of dealing with them she chooses to tell me all the things I'm doing wrong. In a way it's kinda like dealing with an A in denial, blaming everyone else instead of looking at their side of the street.

I guess I have a lot of work to do, to get past all this anger....

DolphinBlue

(((Pauline))) (((Journeygirl)))

oops I wrote a really angry long post and decided against posting it all.

thanks for talking about this stuff.

Amy

Paulie

Thanks you guys. Part of the anger comes from the fact that I have been clean and kinda thought I was done with all this crap....ha - don't think so. I do believe that God does not give me more than I can handle...and that is what is happening right now.

I would never say any of this to my mom, OMG she would crumble. And that makes me sad.

journeygal

Ditto....and it makes me sad too b/c I feel that my mom will never truly know or understand me. I have no desire to hurt her, and I don't think I could share any of this stuff without hurting her.

2stop

Oh Ladies, I know what you mean by being so afraid to upset your mother and feeling sooooo angry about it, too. I just got off the phone with my mom, mentioned I had made some friends, didn't tell her who or where or why, and she got all defensive and started with that don't forget about me!! She knows full well I have never forgotten her and have felt like since I was 4 I was responsible for whether she lived or die.. Hang in there girls, there's gotta be some way to work through all these feelings. sorry to get off on a tangent, every time I talk to my mother I feel like I am on the rollercoaster from hell!!

Many hugs and hope too,
Tammie

Doppelganger

Hi Pauline.

I've been pretending this forum does not exist for a week or so. You may get the idea thereby that I can absolutely relate to the churning sensation you are experiencing. (((( Pauline! )))) Who knew there was all that muck in there? Bleah. You guys are braver than me. I'm only gonna stick my toe in the water for now. Even that is being a shock to my system. I don't have kids to worry about, though. I think it's wonderful that you're reexamining the way you relate with them. I'll bet you have found some things to congratulate yourself about, too. Mental hugs with all my might!

Dop

Morning Glory

Everytime I would talk to my mother about my feelings she would always always turn it back around to make it about her. I finally screamed at the top of my lungs that it is not about you!!!!! It's about me!!!! She finally listened at 81 years old and became very sweet after my father died. I have closure after all these years. The hurt was always so deep that I couldn't ever even talk to her without snapping at her and then I would go home and cry and feel guilty for the way I treated her.

I finally surrendered and prayed hard that God would heal our relationship and I guess I finally got to the pit of grief and was able to let it go.

I can see now that my mother never never took care of herself. Always took care of my father. She is so pitiful without my dad it just breaks my heart. He was an alcoholic and she was codependent. She spent her whole life for him. Her emotional level was always that of a child and I think we were in some way competition for her. She was also unable to separate herself from us so God forbid if we expressed ourselves. I am kind of like that myself and have to watch it with my kids so they can express themselves. My kids are way more assertive than I am and I get a stomach ache over it sometimes, but grit my teeth and let them do it or leave the situation.

The hardest part for me is knowing that my parents never knew me. They made me up in their minds and it didn't matter what I did that's who I was to them. So many times I wanted to yell. Hey I'm in here, can anyone see me?

I still need to learn to free myself from the prison they put me in.

Hugs,
MG

Paulie

(((Dop))) Love you!!!
And you are right, who knew...bleah!!!!!!!!! but one day at a time. I have so much good in my life right now and it all works together, HP said now that you have all this good, it is time for you to deal with the bleah!!!!

MG - Your honesty means the world to me. everytime my mom and I talk about my sisters cancer she makes it about her and how much it hurts her. I have to tell her it is about Mary, but she doens't get it at all. I am trying to learn to not play the victim role that she plays. She is who she is I can't change her, but I don't want to be like her. Don't get me wrong, my mom is a great lady, but we live what we learn and my grandma was the most unhappy person I ever met inmy life.

And JG - I could never share this stuff with my mom either. My mom likes to cause drama and this would set her off and running.

Friends - this is great I apprecitate everyone sharing, we are really alot alike around here and it helps to know that I am not alone in dealing with the bleah from the past (thanks Dop, love that word)!

JT

I have talked to my mom a bit and it makes her sad. She must have some pretty deep regrets and who am I to cause her pain? She was the codependent to my dad's alcoholism and was emotionally unavailable.

My dad on the other hand has been in AA for 28 years and I said something once to him. He was visably stunned. Really I thought he had enough recovery to hear ANYTHING I said. So I doubt I do it again.

As the parent of a deeply troubled man I don't want to be blamed by him either. I had choices just like he did. My choices have not always been good ones and have caused me alot of pain.

I also know how it makes me feel when he blames me or makes a comment about something I did. Believe me...I KNOW what I did.

This one big circle for me.

Hugs,
JT

Paulie

JT -

I know you know this, but I want to clarify for the other moms reading this. In NO WAY do I blame my mom for my drug usage or really anything else that happened to me in my child hood and if any of your using kids try to do that, DO NOT take responsibility for it. We all make our own choices!!!
I know my mom did the best she could with what she knew. That does not mean I don't get angry as I work through this bleah!!! cause I do, but that is on me, not on her or my dad.

Love you JT - and moms of SR!!!!!!!

journeygal

Ditto what Pauline said. I don't blame my mom for being the way she was. It's not like she said, "You know what? I think I want my daughter to grow up alone and unloved. I know - I'll be emotionally unavailable! Let's see if she can be happy now!!!"

My anger is MY anger and I take full ownership of it. Which is why I can't say this stuff to Mom without it seeming like I was trying to make her responsible for my feelings.

JT, I had a similar experience with my dad. Said something to him once. He was incredibly hurt. I will never say anything again.

This is all so very sad. Do any of our parents really know us? Do any of you parents really know your kids?

JT

I didn't mean to sound like anyone was blaming...I was rambling.

I do think I know my son. First off I am not from the same generation as my mother and I have done much of what he has done. My son and I have always talked and been close. When he was younger I know he hid stuff but there isn't alot to hide anymore. He can say...and has said almost anything to me. We are in recovery together...only he isn't quite there yet.

I went through a cocaine phase and looking back now he knows it. He asked me about it and I said yes, but you also know I quit hanging around that friend very suddenly. That is when it ended. I stopped because it scared me to death.

He is definately still blaming...actually he goes back and forth, Saying the right things and then reverting to blame but he is getting there. He knows I don't buy it.

Hugs,
JT

SkyIsFalling42

WOW, Gosh, Jeeze!!!!

You ladies gave me so much to think about I am speechless
Need to re-read all of this stuff and do some thinking and digging..anyone got a sovel? lol

Love in spirit
Sky

Stephanie

Oh my god,

I can't believe I'm back here and this is the thread I read. God really gives us what we need. I only read the thread because I saw Pauline posted it and I didn't look at the forum. Dop and Pauline....I don't know if it was anger but I haven't read anything in this forum in a while and I was really into it at first. I think I just got overwhelmed. I really thought I was through with a lot of this work. I only thought I was through because I have learned how not to let my mother get to me and I have learned that I don't need to prove anything to her. However I think I learned in here that I still have a lot to resolve within myself.

MG, you blew me away with what you said. It sounds so much like my situation. I have said to her many times. This isn't about you, it's about me. Try to just be supportive and listen. She tries but has not been able to and I've just stopped trying to talk about anything real. When you said that she was unable to separate herself from all of you so you could not epress yourself. That is my life. I always looked at it like she felt my pain so I couldn't talk about anything bothering me and get help from her as a child because it would make her so upset and then I would have to take care of her. Is that what you mean????

My parents are coming here in a few days, probably why I've been avoiding this forum. I always feel so much anxiety over their arrival. I feel like everything has to be perfect and hunkey dorey or else they can't deal or they'll hurt my feelings in some way or I won't be enough. Now it's not so much not being enough self esteem wise, now it's not being enough to make them happy and give them a good time. I want so much for them to enjoy their visit and I always think that is about how my life appears. it's sort of like if everything is roses and butterflys then they'll feel good about the job they did as parents and feel good about themselves and if it isn't then they are not going to feel good about themselves. It's all so enmeshed. How do you even begin to unscramble the mess for your own kids?????

journeygal

Steph, your last paragraph completely sums up my relationship with my parents and I go through the exact thing whenever they come to visit. According to my therapist, one day I'm going to have to tell them, mostly Mom, that I'll keep drowning as long as I'm trying to live her life and my life too, that she needs to get out of my boat and start rowing her own. But I don't have the guts to do that, not yet. We don't talk about anything real. I really don't know how she would handle it and I'm not ready to tackle it. I don't know if I ever will be.

Paulie

This is how, by sharing and talking with others about it.

I was telling my sponsor about this thread the other day and I was explaining the anger that i am feeling over the memories I am having. Which by the way, continue to come after posting about my moms breakdown, it was like that post opened the flood gates. Anyway, she had a good point, the anger I am feeling is normal because of the part of my childhood that was lost, and she said that after the anger is gone I may go through a grieving process too, which of course thrilled me LOL! - but I understand and I think it has already started.

My emotions are on a rollercoaster right now, and PMS is not even close LOL!

I don't want my kids (i call them that you know that) to ever feel this way. I don't want a part of their childhood to ever be gone. But inside I know that has already happened, and that I had a huge part in that. i can't feel quilty, I have to take care of them today, their needs are what is important, and being there for them helps me to heal. Does that make sense???

My mother - I can't even go there right now!!!!