prodigal

I heard something yesterday that I felt was worth sharing here. During a meeting, someone said, "Years ago, my sponsor told me that when we feel angry and guilty, it indicates we're allowing someone to control us; when we feel angry and resentful, it means we're trying to control someone else."

I gave that a lot of thought and listened to others input on our topic of discussion, which basically centered around our own anger towards the addict in our lives. One person mentioned, "I find myself angriest when the alcoholic in my life is obviously in denial." That really hit the nail on the head for me: "There he goes AGAIN, believing his own insane lies." I think that made me look at my own anger, and indeed it does come when he's in denial; whether that denial comes from chugging down a six pack and acting as if it's "normal" drinking behavior, or saying something that is right out of a fairytale. Then I realized it goes deeper than that; I want to control his erroneous perceptions. I hold my tongue, but in the back of my head, I'm saying, "Whaddya mean you DON'T care for desserts - you have two GALLONS of ice cream in the freezer!"

So what do you think it is that REALLY makes YOU angry when the A is acting out or doing what an A typically does? I didn't ask, what is the A doing that makes you angry? I asked: what is it with YOU that is motivating you to generate your anger?

Barbara52

For me the anger was rooted in being unable to control my AH's behavior or perceptions of reality. I know I'm right and he's wrong kinda feelings. I wanted for so long to make him understand, make him change.

There is also some self anger just being tickied off at myself for putting up iwth it all for so long but that is rapidly disappearing now.

Jfanagle

I suspect that most non-alcoholics are primarily motivated by LOVE for the alcoholic. Think about it, if we didn't have those feelings it wouldn't matter one iota what the fools did.

If you accept this premise that the caring is the cause of interest in the behavior of our "person" we then have to realize that since both the PROBLEM (alcoholism) and the SOLUTION (sobriety) are really so visible and soo...ssoo... simple to fix FROM THE NON ADDICT'S view then why in the world can't this idiot just FIX IT.

Concern=Frustration and disappointment=ANGER!

We form super resentments as the behavior becomes not only more bizarre, but more intense both in frequency and in duration. Since this emotion is compounded by our inability to get our "loved one" to see the error of their ways the frustration morphs into absolute full blown burn down the house and run over you with the car resentment. All of this from a simple seed of concern.

The resentment will kill you! I heard it said a long time ago that "carrying around resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other guy to die!"

Since the manifesting of concern into actions that the alkie ignores is the seed from which resentment grows, I have found that it is best to provide the abuser with a map and a compass. The map in the form of where help (outside of me) and in the form of a professional or AA group is available. So that he/she knows where to "look" for help. Secondly the compass is the actual location; time and place where that help can be found. After that wish them well and let them know if you should decide to find your way "back" into the world I live in then I have the love in a box waiting to use it again.

I won't drink that poison and lose myself in resentment. It is enough that one of us is already lost. Only the Alcoholic can help the alcoholic

dollydo

Lack of respect, that gets my anger going and then I am on a roll.

denny57

Definitely control. Which then boils down to fear. Today I am better at asking "what do I fear" when I am angry. Great post.

cmc

It's not just the A...in fact right now, it's hardly ever anything to do with him, or anything related to addiction. My son is busy living his life and in recovery.
Anger is a problem for me when I have _expectations_ of any kind and my real or imaginary 'line of toleration' is crossed. It might be a one time thing- from anybody who crosses my path, perhaps a person I'm doing business with on the phone- who doesn't know their job, a bad driver on the freeway...or a repeated conflict with say...the company who put the roof on my house. For me it's usually has to do with something I can't get out of or away from. It's rarely a loved one- because I can work things out with them or learn to accept and detach. I need to stop expecting so much and just accept- and be happy because that way when things do go well- it's a bonus. Truthfully- I'm not too crazy about giving up alot of my expectations- they are what I used to call my standards or preferences- but I'm working on it. How I try to handle it is to try to understand the other side of things and give that person the same consideration I would like- and then say or do what I feel is necessary before trying to forget the whole thing. I try not to give away all my emotions over these things. I hope that makes sense.

LarryATL

Jfanagle, you "nailed" it for me - that's it exactly in terms of the primary source of my anger. Thanks for putting it into words so simply yet eloquently.

Larry

prodigal

Thanks for the input. I learn from other people's responses, and my recovery is definitely a learning process. Okay, now I'm gonna put in my two cents (what??? ME put in MY two cents - oh, say it isn't so! LOL!!!!!!). I don't know if I'll get my request met, but I'll never know unless I ask. I'd like to hear from more folks who post here who grapple with anger now and then. We all do, don't we?

Please consider it enlightenment for this codie ....

Rella927

Anger-wow something I feel that I still battle with at times but, since I have now been sticking with my recovery have come a long way-

[quote]I don't know if I'll get my request met, but I'll never know unless I ask. I'd like to hear from more folks who post here who grapple with anger now and then. We all do, don't we?

Please consider it enlightenment for this codie ....[/b]

Grapple now and then YUP UH HUH this codie is so quilty of that one! I thank my HP, Al-Anon, SR and other resources that it is "Now and Then"


I feel that when my needs are not being met it creates this emotion of anger to stir up inside of me! Could be anything or anyone-co-worker, family member, a bee LOL!

Lack of respect DollyDo good one! For me too!

Also another big one for me is when I'am antagonized with awful behavior.I get super angry and eventually blow up! (The old me all the time! The new me only now and then...I'm working on this!)

JFanagle hit it on the head good!

Now I try to sit back and breathe and tell me myself "self it is not worth" and what is going on with you that you allowing this to get you angry? D-A-N-G-E-R is one letter away from ANGER I try to remember that and say that famous (Minnies thread) quote from Dr. Phil "Hows that working for ya?"

Wow I had/have/working on alot of anger issues?!

mallowcup

My anger comes from one place usually. It is when I find myself not using my own good judgement and not making sensical and simple choices for my own life. I find excuses not to make good choices and realize the life I have is the life I chose, it can change but I don't change it.

embraced2000

hmmmmm.........for so long i didn't feel anger. i just kept eating all the injustices in my life and saying....oh well, that's just how it is. this is how life is. this is how i am. i can remember having these feelings since childhood.

as i look back now, i can see that everytime anger would have been an acceptable emotion to feel in many of my scenarios, i just became a little more invisible, and felt very hurt and scared inside. and less than worthy. i can remember being ashamed and feeling guilty when i received new school clothes or presents.

now, into my glorious 50's.........through years of al-anon and counseling, anger works much differently for me.

and there are so many different ways it works for me now. sometimes, because i have repressed anger for so long, anger will work as a motivator for me to finally chit or get offa the pot.

with my xah, i would feel superior to him because, in my sick mind, he was actually less than me. i had a life plan for him. he would not follow it. i was going to be the one to show everyone that i was the one that changed him....and be glorified and admired by all that knew. very sick. indeed.

when he didn't follow the life plan i had made to make him successful and sober, i would get angry cause he was really messing with my ultimate goal of my own self-satisfaction of being successful.

for me now, at this time in my life, anger comes from fear of not being able to shine.

and the big one too is that it is the loss of control that i couldn't keep my marriage to someone that i loved so dearly. he just would NOT cooperate.

Loreena

GREAT THREAD Prodigal,

I have been thinking about my anger lately, I"ve been in an active state of almost rage for the past 3 weeks over AH's behavior, I think I am just still 100% looking at him as the problem and am not taking responsibility for the actions I need to take to get away from him. It is daunting and I have made several steps but am still very angry. Honestly, I am angry at ME for not seeing the truth about my situation. I was on my own away from him and took him back when he got out of jail, he started drinking agaiin almost emediately. I don't know why I have this built in forgetter - I forgot what he had done to me in the past, I had every opportunity before I bought this house to leave him and I didn't. I am REALLY TRULY angry at myself and am trying to forgive myself. His drinking has really escalated now and the days are getting very stressful and the money situation is getting tighter and I am on a sinking ship again because I made this mistake. I have prayed for him and I pray for myself to get off this roller coaster.

THanks for the thread, I have to forgive myself and forgive him and just move on, my spririt has been bruised again but it is still there.

Because of this thread, I am going to spend my day at work thinking about what I can do to change, I have the power to change myself and no one else. I knew in the back of my mind I was making a big mistake but put some faith in the fact that he had been sober for 2 years and I cared about him. I have to stop the contempt I feel for him because it is just making ME sick.

Courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.

thanks, Loreena

Grasshopper

Hi,a young man is hitting an elderly person.I of course get mad,and do something about it.So,putting this type of anger on the shelf,and talking about plain,ole, anger,my anger comes,from my thoughts,that say to me,why in the wolrd cant you be more like---me.--Then i wouldnt, be mad , at you.Thats really what im saying to myself.
Not allowing others the right to be who they are.
Its a choice,that i make,and also a habbit,to get angry.Sometimes owning anothers behaviour,which really has nothing to do with me,but them,however i learend this along the way,didnt know it before.....smile...
And it all has to do with my thoughts/feelings,inside.
If someone calls me names,does things,that are way out there,i dont ---have--to chose, anger.I can make decisions,for myself,for healthier responses.It better to let anger out if its there,but for me,its better,to make different choices for myself.All anger ever did for me,was give me ulcers,headaches,upset-stomach,,,etc,,,etc,break up communcations,with others,,,etc,,,and it never changed anyone.They still decided to be who they are,,go figure,,lol

cagefree

Codie behaviour/thinking motivates me. I've detailed my "sick" thinking below

The below made me PO'd at myself and him.
1. I viewed his progress/lack of progress in battling his disease a direct measure of the value of my help/control, etc.
*If he drank = I failed*
2. If he drank, I perceived that he considered my opinons and help worth crap and did not appreciate me. I took it personally.
3. I took his lack of empathy as a direct measure of my self worth, because I could not validate my self worth.

Basically, if a stranger drinks after a relapse it won't affect me, because I don't give him the power .

I was/am PO'd at my mother because of the below:
1. I feel she raised me to be a codie
2. I'm feel as though I have to put my life on hold to "fix" myself - I'm 34 and running out of eggs.
3. I am still giving mom the power over me when she gives me unwanted advice. (working on fixing this right now)

I gave an alcoholic and am giving another codependent unwilling to change (my mother) power over me. My expectations were/are too high and I took/take it personally.

There you have it.

Rella927

Wow flashback! I did this cage for so long-I had the anger kicking of her and the A at the same time! I worked on my mom/codie issues first-the focus was so set on not allowing her to have power over me-I finally reached a point with alot of help in counseling and my sister and 2 of my brothers-that I accept her for who she is and she is not going to change-I love her for who she is as a person and realize she was not dealt a very good hand in her life and she did the best she could with us. She is older and does not see and probably never will that she does i.e. says the things she does and I accept it and learn to REACT to her differently when she gives me unwanted advice. We have alot of fun together now because it is not worth losing anymore time with her than I already did in life.

A shame I did not grasp on to this with the XABF until later than I did!

Still a codie in progress!!

jillybean

Hmmm..What motivates my anger?

I guess it depends on what I am facing at the time what the root of my anger is.

Realizing that I can't do it all by myself. I have a hard time leaning and asking for help then feel overwhelemed because from childhood I was culivated to be the pail and shovel person at the end of the elephant parade. I get angry when I realize I am only human and vulnerable and I didn't save anything for myself and there is no support network to be found. I get angry when I can't accept my limits and I can't change my hand I was dealt into something I alone can manage. (OK this is a huge one for me.) I have to love and accept myself before I can love and accept anyone else.

My counselor wisely reminded me that when flying, we are instructed to first secure our oxygen mask in an emergency because if we pass out, we are no good to ourselves or anyone else. Anger comes from expecting someone to give what I need and not having those needs met. If they do give out of love and gratitude, all the better.

I need honesty and stability from others. I base my actions on feedback so if I am being lied to and I then am attacked for my actions, I get angry because I thought I was being appropriate.

Whenever I have given the benfit of the doubt to another and I get burned, it is because I assumed that the other person had the same thoughts and goals as I did. They see/saw things the same as I did and I emoted for them. I get angry when I realize that it was my own fault for thinking that way in the first place. If I had responded to the actions rather than the words, I would have had a clue.

Fear for sure. When someone jeopardizes my safety, I get angry at their callouness first then myself second for trusting even when my gut was screaming not to.

I get angry when I feel like I am reduced to non human status by someone because that is who they are. I can't wrap my mind around how someone can hurt another without remorse or consceince and remain oblivious to the damage they leave behind.

And yes, I get angry when I can't comprehend why someone can't see how harmful their actions are to themselves. That is my wishing to control and it is something I am working very hard on changing within myself. They have choices and so do I and the consequences belong to the proper parties and unfortunately, innocents get hurt at times but it's life and it's something that I have to accept.

parentrecovers

i've said this many times before - my fear motivates my anger. when i let go of my control, my fear/anger subsides. it's a peaceful place, k

sunshine85

CageFree: I just read your post and must say it got my attention. I am the mother of a 34 year old AS. If I may ask who is Codie? After reading your post, maybe, I am to blame for his dinking..hummm. Maybe, I was to protective of my children. Thanks for sharing.

sunshine321

I get angry when I feel that someone has not respected my boundaries. (My mom is a huge problem, oh and the abf)

I feel angry when in good faith, I trust someone to follow through with what they say and they let me down and don't. I not only get angry at that person but also angry at myself for trusting that person.

I feel angry when I am lied to over and over. Again at first angry at the person but then angry with myself. (Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.)

I feel angry when I am put in position I have no control over. Or I guess not having control. (my current living situation was my decision too, but the decision was made before I knew about the lies and deceit) Now I feel stuck because it's not just about me, but my kids too.

I feel angry when someone is trying to take my control from me. It is a hot button of mine. (Again left over from my mom).

I feel angry when someone insults or hurts me, especially if I haven't done the wrongs they are accusing me of.

I feel angry when I'm hurt.

I feel angry when I think that things aren't fair, to me or others in the world. I have trouble with injustice which sucks because it's all around us everywhere. It's wasted energy for me.

I feel angry when I see my ABF treat himself so poorly and it is ruining our life because I will not stay if things don't improve.

I feel angry when I feel I'm doing all the "right things" and another person that directly effects me isn't and I suffer the consequences too. But I think that falls under injustice again.

I feel angry with myself that I just can't seem to pick the right man to have a relationship with after all the work I've done to help me understand myself and heal myself. WTF? Guess I haven't figured it out yet.

I want a nice quiet peaceful serene life. It's a work in progress that has eluded me until now. I hope I'm on the right track this time.

If anyone sees things I've written that don't make sense or that I'm BSing myself, please feel free to let me know. Constructive critism is welcome. Sometimes I wish I had a direct hotline to Dr. Phil.

Jenny

cagefree

The only one to blame for him drinking is HIM - not you.

Hey Sunshine

Codie = codependent

I get lazy when I type and abbreviate a lot.

The way I see it, my mom taught me the defense mechanism she used. I learned by observing. I also grew up in a household where I was not allowed to feel unless I was given "permission". I had to have her validation before making any choices for myself. So, when I went out into the adult world I had a tough start because I couldn't rely on myself.

Thing is - I AM an adult now and responsible for taking care of myself, giving myself what I need (including my own validity).

Regardless of what I went through growing up and what I observed, I'm an adult, and adults keep their side clean

Just my 2 cents.

ps. wanted to edit quickly and say that I love my mother very much and through my own recovery of codependency I am learning to not give her power like that over me - but I'm still a work in progress