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i dont believe alcoholism is a disease, is this a problem?

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Old 07-22-2007, 11:45 AM
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i dont believe alcoholism is a disease, is this a problem?

I dont and never have bought into the whole "Alcoholism is a disease" concept. To me, its an addiction, plain and simple. I used to be addicted to sugar (and why not, since almost all alkies are hypoglycemic). I would never have dreamed to call that sugar addiction a "disease."

I surely hope that my differing belief on this doesnt get me cast out from the land of Alcoholics!

Its an addiction... like an addiction to caffeine, or nicotine. Cancer is a real disease, so is Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or many other ones. But addiction to the chemical of alcohol, a disease? I think not.

Will people be "upset" or "offended" with me cuz I dont agree?

I say, whatever you call it, as long as u find a way to get OFF it, thats fine!
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:49 AM
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I would never be upset or offended by your beliefs. Although I do find it comforting to know that its a disease for 'me'. Somehow it just makes it easier for me.
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:55 AM
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Illness, Condition, Disease, Addiction, who cares what we call it?

All I know that it was killing me. I was basically the walking dead.
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:58 AM
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here's a great thread to read.................

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:59 AM
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Call it what you like, amigo. I ain't offended.

Addiction is certainly more technically accurate, although I don't personally think the two terms are mutually exclusive. We think of it as a disease in the sense that it is a progressive illness which is PERMANENT and TERMINAL.

Probably most of the things you mentioned are really no more technically 'diseases' (so-called 'heart disease' being another prime example) than alcoholism is. But if you must draw a distinction, alcoholism is primarily mental whereas cancer for instance is bodily.

I urge you to consider why you consider 'cancer' a 'disease' and not alcoholism. Neither are caused by virus/bacteria/other known infectious agent, so what is it about cancer, physiologically speaking, that makes it inherently different from alcoholism? Both are, when untreated, progressive 'illnesses' which can lead to death. Both are, in a very real sense, one's brain/body attacking it's own self. So, is it the fact that cancer requires 'medical treatment' to arrest in most cases? Well, so does alcoholism when it's advanced far enough.

Tell you what, why don't you attempt to DEFINE for all of us laypeople exactly WHAT a disease is - rather than giving 'examples', which is not a definition. I think you'll find it a bit more complicated to do than you are making it out to be ...
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:09 PM
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I only see it as a problem when debates over the issue come up or when a person uses what they believe or don't believe to continue useing.


Alcohol does not put me at ease so from that standpoint I see it as a dis-ease that can be addictive.
Seeing alcohol as a problem in our life and doing what is needed to correct the problem is the important thing.
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:10 PM
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You could have lengthy discussions about if alcoholism is a disease or not. In fact, we just did this recently, if you missed it look here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-explain.html

The import part of your question was "is this a problem?"

Not really, IMHO. If you are using AA as a recovery/support system, the word "disease" does not appear in the 12 steps. In fact it only appears once in the big book, in a quote about diseased thinking. (Admittedly there are many synonyms of "disease" in the big book suck as "sickness" or "illness" however).

Is it a problem for you to not believe in the disease model? A lot of people will argue with you about this, although I do not know why. If such arguments do not persuade you or you don't get anything from them, just keep your beliefs on the disease model to yourself and avoid the arguments altogether.

Good luck with your recovery.
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:17 PM
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Well, all disease really means is a lack of ease in the body .

No, I don't think so. You can call it a panda bear if you like. While most likely innacurate, all that matters is you think of it in a way that helps you to stop.

The only way it really matters is if you're looking for a support group, it's helpful to have one that agrees with your belief system. Fighting over terminology and the like will have a negative impact on all involved.

So I guess you might be asking can you be in AA and believe that alchohol isn't a disease. I honestly don't know, I don't have enough experience with them.

Anyone?
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:27 PM
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DGilz is correct, the Big Book doesn't mention the word disease. It does allude to an allergy of the body, and an obsession of the mind.

This is from Chapter 3

We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:43 PM
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Absolutely NOTHING about AA is predicated on the idea that alcoholism is a 'disease'. As GP says, the closest we get is 'progressive illness', and there is little doubt that it meets that definition, but it doesn't matter WHAT you think 'alcoholism' really 'IS' in technical terms. AA is simply not that technical, it's merely a set of tools that have been shown to be effective for maintaining sobriety for most everyone who employs them consistently and diligently. You don't have to 'agree' with AA's insights into 'what alcoholism really is' in order to use the tools. Not at ALL...
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:12 PM
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It feels like a disease to me - I haven't felt this ill in a long time; 3rd day of sobriety
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:32 PM
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Heard at a meeting:

An alkie and his normal buddy are walking next to a lake, and suddenly both men's pants burst into flames. The alkie wants to know what happened, and his friend says "Idiot!, just jump in the lake with me."

Just put the fire out and quit analyzing.
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassPrisoner View Post
an obsession of the mind.
That about sums it up really!! ^
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:47 PM
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Is it a problem for you to not believe in the disease model? A lot of people will argue with you about this, although I do not know why.

***************************

I tried to put that in quotes but somethings wrong with my 'puter or something here.

Yes, its a problem. Ive heard people say stuff like, "Oh my disease this..." and "My disease that..." when referring to alcoholism. I am like ? You mean your ADDICTIOn.

I think this is a personal problem in that i need or seem to feel the need to assign blame. Cuz people dont get cancer from over-indulging in a substance (well, secondarily they do.... but not in and of itself, alone).
I feel with me, drinking.... I CHOSE to drink, for however "real" the reasons when I first started.... the bottom line is, had I never drank, I never would have become an alcoholic. The addiction runs in my family, and I kinda knew it when I was much younger, but didnt care because I was so severely depressed. I didnt care what happened to me, to be honest.

To call alcoholism a "disease".... I dont know. I just dont like it. Its not true.
Its not true cuz I dont like it or vice versa. Its just a wrong definition. But I guess if that helps some people to come to grips with their problem/illness/problem, then so be it.

Part or a big part is, people with cancer dont make it worse by their behavior, which is something we can control. They get the tumor(s) and thats it.
They dont go out and get drunk and say Oh my disease made me do it or whatever.

Anyway, I think this is moot to argue with. Yes though, I would argue in person with someone whi insisted on it, about A being a disease. It is not!

Tell me why my sugar addiction is a disease then....


Or, is not.

I do think alcoholism does set forth in the body chains of motion that are indicative of a *disease process*, but that the process of pouring large quantities of alcohol down one's throat is not in any way, shape or form a "disease" in itself. It is an addiction, and addictive behavior, and causes "bad" changes within the body that can then set into motion all sorts of real diseases, illnesses, so on and so forth.

Anyway..... who cares I guess, as long as once recognizes a PROBLEM, and quits!

I just wanted to comment for discussion is all.

I need to check out the link to some thread that someone put on here... yes, I must have missed it............


Peace.
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:42 PM
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Hi overcomer, how about "condition"? That's specific enough to help in thinking about this thing about you that's f***ing you up, but it's not quite as "medical" a word as "disease," with the implications you (me too, sometimes) don't much like.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:20 PM
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There is a very helpful and informative AA Glossary having to do with AA terminology that might be confusing to the newly sober members of AA. I hope the following will be of interest:

Alcoholism:
While there is no formal 'AA definition' of alcoholism, most of us agree that, for us, it could be described as a physical compulsion, coupled with a mental obsession. We mean that we had a distinct physical desire to consume alcohol beyond our capacity to control it, and in defiance of all the rules of common sense. We not only had an abnormal craving for alcohol, but we frequently yielded to it at the worst possible times. We did not know when (or how) to stop drinking.

The American Medical Association formally recognized alcoholism as a disease in 1972. In 1956, it had classified alcoholism as a 'treatable illness.' Alcoholism results from a genetic predisposition working in combination with psychological and environmental factors. There is no cure. Abstinence is the only treatment.

Definition of Alcoholism
Approved by the Boards of Directors of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (February 3, 1990) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (February 25, 1990).

Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial.
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity in addition to and separate from other path physiologic states which may be associated with it. Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage.
Often progressive and fatal means that the disease persists over time and that physical, emotional, and social changes are often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues.
Alcoholism causes premature death through overdose, organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart and many other organs, and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.
Impaired control means the inability to limit alcohol use or to consistently limit on any drinking occasion the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
Preoccupation in association with alcohol use indicates excessive, focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value thus assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to a diversion of energies away from important life concerns.
Adverse consequences are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal syndromes, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, neurological disorders); psychological functioning (e.g., impairments in cognition, changes in mood and behavior); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems and child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.
Denial is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.

Alcoholism as a Progressive Disease:
The term 'progressive' is used to describe alcoholism because, as a rule, it only gets worse over time.
Whatever you choose to call it, I know I've got it! And, I'm trying to do something about it, without overanalyzing/intellectualizing...Keep It Simple.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:33 PM
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2: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms: SICKNESS, MALADY
3: a
Harmful development (as in a social institution)

Mr. Webster defines the term above. That pretty well sums up the problem between me and the bottle.

I might suggest that the concentration should be on the definition of CURE. In my past that has been 1. Admission 2. Recognition that I can't do it by myself. 3. Restitution and reconciliation with those that I have hurt and damaged. 4. Inspiration and continual contact with something greater and more capable than I am by myself to find a way to live a life that doesn't require the use of a substance to let me "deal" with my world!

Sobriety became a reality for me when I stopped analyzing my troubles and began addressing them head on. I thank all those in the rooms who helped me face the fact that NONE of my ideas were working and allowed me to borrow theirs and those of the first 100 men who helped write the Big Book of AA. I just do what works one more day and wish the best to any and all that choose a different path.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:51 PM
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JFangle, you may want to add 5. Helping others that are afflicted with the same condition recover

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Old 07-22-2007, 05:33 PM
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Glass, you are so very right, and it is just the fact that when I forget there is some other sober member who is there to "take me by the hand" and show me the way!!

Your post is why I can't and don't want to try and do it ALL BY MYSELF! Thanks GP. Point very well taken.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassPrisoner View Post
DGilz is correct, the Big Book doesn't mention the word disease. It does allude to an allergy of the body, and an obsession of the mind.

This is from Chapter 3
Progressive illness is disease.....
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