codependency or low self-esteem and good instincts
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Join Date: May 2007
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codependency or low self-esteem and good instincts
I am kind of wondering about codependency.
I know I put up with a lot of stuff because of low self-worth, but I am not sure I was was addicted to/or liked the drama. I know that because of my low self-worth I gave power of my self-worth to someone who couldn't make me feel better (maybe no one really can) but the "drama" was really just good instincts. I knew (like most of you, I am sure) when something was up and now in retrospect I am learning all those times were RIGHT. It was NOT MY panic/anxiety, but an APPROPRIATE response to someone else's wrong-doing/hurtful behavior.
What do you all think?
I know I put up with a lot of stuff because of low self-worth, but I am not sure I was was addicted to/or liked the drama. I know that because of my low self-worth I gave power of my self-worth to someone who couldn't make me feel better (maybe no one really can) but the "drama" was really just good instincts. I knew (like most of you, I am sure) when something was up and now in retrospect I am learning all those times were RIGHT. It was NOT MY panic/anxiety, but an APPROPRIATE response to someone else's wrong-doing/hurtful behavior.
What do you all think?
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
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I never felt like I 100% fit the codie mold. I mean, if you look at it from the perspective that I was way too caught up in the goings on of another persons daily rituals, then okay, that shoe fits. But if you look at it from the "I want to fix this person" or "I do for other people before I do for me" side of the coin, it doesn't fit at all for me.
I think, like you, that self-worth, or the lack of one, played a huge role in my situation. Here's an analogy my doc used last week. Everyone walks around life with a bowl full of chips (poker, not potato) that kind of represent our self-worth. Those with "low self-esteem" don't have very many chips in their bowl, and not knowing how to get them for themselves, they will go to lengths to get a few here and there. I've done some really stupid stuff that, using this analogy, were feeble attempts to fill up my bowl. Other times, I just play that nice, agreeable TG, as when people like me, I get a few more chips in my bowl. I think in my relationship, amidst the drama and chaos, he also threw me a few chips here and there....ones I really needed.
Okay, I'm officially rambling.
I think, like you, that self-worth, or the lack of one, played a huge role in my situation. Here's an analogy my doc used last week. Everyone walks around life with a bowl full of chips (poker, not potato) that kind of represent our self-worth. Those with "low self-esteem" don't have very many chips in their bowl, and not knowing how to get them for themselves, they will go to lengths to get a few here and there. I've done some really stupid stuff that, using this analogy, were feeble attempts to fill up my bowl. Other times, I just play that nice, agreeable TG, as when people like me, I get a few more chips in my bowl. I think in my relationship, amidst the drama and chaos, he also threw me a few chips here and there....ones I really needed.
Okay, I'm officially rambling.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
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I appreciate this thread because I too find that I don't quite fit the codie-mold except for in that one relationship and it eroded my self-esteem which I really didn't have much trouble with before. It was eroded gradually over the alcoholic and abusive relationship that trashed my self esteem. I'd always been confident before.
And the trick here is that is was so gradual and escalating.
Had it started out that way...I would have been out of there without a qualm.
With my usual motto of "NEXT!" LOL
And the trick here is that is was so gradual and escalating.
Had it started out that way...I would have been out of there without a qualm.
With my usual motto of "NEXT!" LOL
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by TexasGirl 
I think, like you, that self-worth, or the lack of one, played a huge role in my situation. Here's an analogy my doc used last week. Everyone walks around life with a bowl full of chips (poker, not potato) that kind of represent our self-worth. Those with "low self-esteem" don't have very many chips in their bowl, and not knowing how to get them for themselves, they will go to lengths to get a few here and there. I've done some really stupid stuff that, using this analogy, were feeble attempts to fill up my bowl. Other times, I just play that nice, agreeable TG, as when people like me, I get a few more chips in my bowl. I think in my relationship, amidst the drama and chaos, he also threw me a few chips here and there....ones I really needed.
good analogy!!
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, wa
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Your posts read like I wrote them myself. I truly had all your thoughts and feelings. God this journey can be so trying and painful.......
If I can say ONE thing to you, this is your journey as each of us have walked our own. You will walk it out in your own way, you will fight with yourself, your emotions, your (special other causing so much drama).......then one day after many days of tears you will walk away......and you will better.....you will be walking out your new life, your recovery (whatever that entails).
I have walked and cried so much along my path, but now I cry less often and I see how much better, how much worth there is in me for me! I am better, I will be great! And so will you I promise.....
If I can say ONE thing to you, this is your journey as each of us have walked our own. You will walk it out in your own way, you will fight with yourself, your emotions, your (special other causing so much drama).......then one day after many days of tears you will walk away......and you will better.....you will be walking out your new life, your recovery (whatever that entails).
I have walked and cried so much along my path, but now I cry less often and I see how much better, how much worth there is in me for me! I am better, I will be great! And so will you I promise.....
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
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Growing up with name calling and being belittled... it is what I knew. I would pass on what I knew to others and if someone would say something true about me that was nice... I had no idea how to handle it. Name calling and belittling I knew and what I knew, I felt safe around. If I didn't start to gather some self worth along the way, my needs to feel safe would be a striving to remain in an environment I knew how to deal with. My Coping skills were already available to me. They were my umbrella in the sick environment I was living in and knew.
When I knew better, I did better.
I don't need the drama to feel at home any more. I am worth more then that.
When I knew better, I did better.
I don't need the drama to feel at home any more. I am worth more then that.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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The nice thing about recovery is we have a choice to get healthy and get better.
We can choose to leave those relationships behind and have healthier and more satisfying relationships with people who are deserving of our time. We can start to have relationships where people are fairminded and aren't throwing chips/hooks to keep us engaged with them.
Earthworm
We can choose to leave those relationships behind and have healthier and more satisfying relationships with people who are deserving of our time. We can start to have relationships where people are fairminded and aren't throwing chips/hooks to keep us engaged with them.
Earthworm
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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i 100% agree with TG. i don't think i fit the "codie" mold completely either. i have some traits that coincide, i'm giving, generous, wanting to help others, etc. but i never wanted to "fix" my ex or make her into someone she wasn't. i was never totally caught up in what she was doing everyday either, although i did place a lot of my happiness on her shoulders. for me, it was low self-esteem, and i kept going back and getting sucked in again because it made me feel better, even if just for a few minutes or days. i was happy with her in my life and very unhappy without her, but it all boils down to me not feeling complete unless i had her to lean on.
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I agree, gns. So many of my responses were entirely appropriate to the situation. I just lacked the one that told me to walk out the door. THAT is an appropriate response, not trying to get him to understand or change. There doesn't need to be any drama around that.
Because of my low self-esteem, I think perhaps I chose someone who either a) was never going to be available and/or or b) was in a crappier place than I was so I could feel superior AND so I could tell myself "even HE doesn't want me" to reinforce my lack of worth.
When I refer to wanting to fix someone, I don't just mean it in a literal sense i.e. cure them of their ailment. I see it as more about seeing a person's (supposed) potential and then putting effort into "helping" them achieve it, whether they ask for it or not.
Because of my low self-esteem, I think perhaps I chose someone who either a) was never going to be available and/or or b) was in a crappier place than I was so I could feel superior AND so I could tell myself "even HE doesn't want me" to reinforce my lack of worth.
When I refer to wanting to fix someone, I don't just mean it in a literal sense i.e. cure them of their ailment. I see it as more about seeing a person's (supposed) potential and then putting effort into "helping" them achieve it, whether they ask for it or not.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
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I don't see any connection with my good instincts and the drama. Yes, I usually 'knew' when something was up...I had suspicions, but this had nothing to do with the fact that sometimes...many times I made poor choices that had negative effects on myself and others...including the addict. Many times my instincts told me to do the right thing as well.
I wasn't addicted to the drama, nor did I like it, yet I still behaved in ways that were out of bounds. I still wanted to help and usually my reasons had everything to do with me feeling better/safer and me trying to take care of the rest of my family. I was dealing with each crisis and finding the best solutions to 'his' and 'our' problem.
I like your choice of words: "an appropriate response to someone else's behavior" which was what I thought I was doing, but wasn't.
I've never met one enabler/codpendent who was 'codie' through and through, ie codie all the time in all areas of life. I'm about the farthest from that of all the people I know of...yet I began to respond in ways that were making me 'co' dependent on the other person's actions. "He/she does ______, so I will do _____."
And the cycle continues until I stop it.
Melody Beattie describes it in Codependent No More: “Codependency is all about the subtle and sometimes overt ways we make ourselves miserable and let other people make us crazy....I knew something was ruining my life way back then in the late seventies and early eighties but I didn’t know what it was. Discovering my codependency issues, and how to heal from them, was like discovering fire...codependency issues affect lives in a variety of ways – from feeling overly responsible for an alcoholic parent, to feeling controlled by a spouse or child, to the morass of feelings and lack of energy caused by overcaring for the people around us and not caring enough – and in the right ways – for ourselves."
I wasn't addicted to the drama, nor did I like it, yet I still behaved in ways that were out of bounds. I still wanted to help and usually my reasons had everything to do with me feeling better/safer and me trying to take care of the rest of my family. I was dealing with each crisis and finding the best solutions to 'his' and 'our' problem.
I like your choice of words: "an appropriate response to someone else's behavior" which was what I thought I was doing, but wasn't.
I've never met one enabler/codpendent who was 'codie' through and through, ie codie all the time in all areas of life. I'm about the farthest from that of all the people I know of...yet I began to respond in ways that were making me 'co' dependent on the other person's actions. "He/she does ______, so I will do _____."
And the cycle continues until I stop it.
Melody Beattie describes it in Codependent No More: “Codependency is all about the subtle and sometimes overt ways we make ourselves miserable and let other people make us crazy....I knew something was ruining my life way back then in the late seventies and early eighties but I didn’t know what it was. Discovering my codependency issues, and how to heal from them, was like discovering fire...codependency issues affect lives in a variety of ways – from feeling overly responsible for an alcoholic parent, to feeling controlled by a spouse or child, to the morass of feelings and lack of energy caused by overcaring for the people around us and not caring enough – and in the right ways – for ourselves."
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Yeah, I must admit, I still enjoy the heck out of a heated thread, but only if I'm not in the thick of it. I'd rather watch someone else get slammed from the safety of the sidelines. Don't like hearing that I'm less than perfect. Yet, when I notice a jucy thread in progress, I'm all over it, like white on rice. I jump in an out of it again and again, waiting to read another juicy tidbit. So, right you are, Minnie.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia
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This is a GREAT thread.
I, too, am not addicted to the drama- the low self-worth and low self-esteem. Involvement with the addict awakened all of my self-esteem issues and slowly erroded my sense of self.
I became compeltely reactionary. And to be quite honest- when I first UNDERSTOOD what I was doing- I STILL felt powerless to overcome it. I would stand there like a deer in headlights- in a panic- KNOWING what was going on but STILL feeling paralyzed to change.
Minnie- I, too, felt like I saw the potential in everyone and kept wanting to "help them see it" regardless of whether they asked or not.
HE validated alot of my feelings and I felt made things better for me. Because I did not like myself ,him loving and liking me superceded my lack of self-esteem. WIthout this I truly felt like I could not psychologically survive. Now I KNOW that I can, but am still trying to gather the tools to move forward.
I, too, am not addicted to the drama- the low self-worth and low self-esteem. Involvement with the addict awakened all of my self-esteem issues and slowly erroded my sense of self.
I became compeltely reactionary. And to be quite honest- when I first UNDERSTOOD what I was doing- I STILL felt powerless to overcome it. I would stand there like a deer in headlights- in a panic- KNOWING what was going on but STILL feeling paralyzed to change.
Minnie- I, too, felt like I saw the potential in everyone and kept wanting to "help them see it" regardless of whether they asked or not.
HE validated alot of my feelings and I felt made things better for me. Because I did not like myself ,him loving and liking me superceded my lack of self-esteem. WIthout this I truly felt like I could not psychologically survive. Now I KNOW that I can, but am still trying to gather the tools to move forward.
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And GNS I also know in retrospect that everytime I called him out on what he was or was not doing- since my bottom line was that I kept saying I would not stay unless he was getting help. Clearly I disrespected myself by not sticking to my boundary, but in HIS denial and trying to protect HIS addiction he would lash out at me.
My reactions and codependent behaviors were an accurate response to an addict.
My reactions and codependent behaviors were an accurate response to an addict.
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I am definately a reactionary and always said a drama addict too, when I think about it I remember at a very young age coming up with something exciting or awful to share with my friends, thinking that like good drama movies that was the way to keep people around. Now Im seeing it more as low self worth and my way of coping and keeping that high in life and adreniline(sp) feeling, cause truthfully I hate being involved in drama
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Missing the "drama" of our former lives is often talked about at AA meetings. In sobriety..and early sobriety at that... from time to time, my life seems a little dull. I've had to call on "normie" friends to ask if staying home on a Saturday night cuz I'm tired and don't feel like talking to anyone.. is normal. I swear. The drama..and pleasure/pain cycle is all part of the addictive personality. I am addicted to alcohol and cigarettes.. just as I have been addicted to men who were not good for me.
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: WA Rainforest
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drama - I avoid it like the plague. My childhood was nonstop drama and I kept out of it as best I could by being invisible. I love a quiet Saturday night at home! that's what I normally do. Homebody, stay home with my dogs and my books and my stereo. No drama.
I put up with the drama in the alcoholic relationship because I was convinced I could fix him. No one took care of me when I was a kid, but by golly I was going to take care of him and make up for that!
I'm not sure how poor self esteem fit into this relationship. I know it's held me back career wise and financially, big time. And with men I avoid the ones you'd call a good catch - they wouldn't be interested in me, after all. I'm not good enough. So I'd 'settle' for someone with issues, that's what I felt comfortable with. Someone who needed me. So what if he has issues? no one's perfect, least of all me!
I remember an aunt describing my cousin's new husband as 'boring', but when I met him, he turned out to be a very nice young man, reliable and rock solid, 'normal'. He spent his days off working around the house! and our big adventure of my visit was a simple day hike! just my style, but 'boring' to my aunt.
Codie? you betcha. But in every single way possible? of course not. The descriptions are meant to match up with a whole gamut of people with different backgrounds and experiences and no one fits anything 100%.
I put up with the drama in the alcoholic relationship because I was convinced I could fix him. No one took care of me when I was a kid, but by golly I was going to take care of him and make up for that!
I'm not sure how poor self esteem fit into this relationship. I know it's held me back career wise and financially, big time. And with men I avoid the ones you'd call a good catch - they wouldn't be interested in me, after all. I'm not good enough. So I'd 'settle' for someone with issues, that's what I felt comfortable with. Someone who needed me. So what if he has issues? no one's perfect, least of all me!
I remember an aunt describing my cousin's new husband as 'boring', but when I met him, he turned out to be a very nice young man, reliable and rock solid, 'normal'. He spent his days off working around the house! and our big adventure of my visit was a simple day hike! just my style, but 'boring' to my aunt.
Codie? you betcha. But in every single way possible? of course not. The descriptions are meant to match up with a whole gamut of people with different backgrounds and experiences and no one fits anything 100%.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia
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Mushroom- I TOO have the problem of not believing myself good enough for those "good catches" -- I still think that way to some degree. Someone who needed you was always good too because then maybe you did not run the risk of them not wanting you? I don't know- I still harbor ALOT of these awful feelings so I am not quite over the hump of accepting that they MAY be dysfunctional- to me some of them are still alive, well and feel very real. Mushroom- how did you break out of thinking that way?
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For me the need to fix him was all about control. If I could only make him behave the way I wanted/expected/pictured in my fantasy world, then my life would be happy and grand. He would be the caring husband/father/partner I needed and we would all live happily ever after.
It was quite uncomfortable for me when my therapist pointed out that I was using his problems as a distraction so that I wouldn't have to face my own. What was it about me that drove me to believe that there was such thing as a "perfect" relationship? What was it in me that made me think I would be happy if everyone around me would just do as I thought they should? Fixing him, for me meant getting him to behave as I wanted him to. So I could then live out my fantasy. Finding out why I chose to persue a futile path is what made the biggest difference for me.
L
It was quite uncomfortable for me when my therapist pointed out that I was using his problems as a distraction so that I wouldn't have to face my own. What was it about me that drove me to believe that there was such thing as a "perfect" relationship? What was it in me that made me think I would be happy if everyone around me would just do as I thought they should? Fixing him, for me meant getting him to behave as I wanted him to. So I could then live out my fantasy. Finding out why I chose to persue a futile path is what made the biggest difference for me.
L
Guess what, I'm not crazy.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oregon
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Great thread. I am co-dependent. I joined a group for people living with alcoholics and it was pointed out to me right off that I should join a coda group. I was thinking WHAT? but I did and it all clicked. I hit the disfunctional jackpot. I knew I was a mess but I had no name for it and here it was. That was about six or eight months ago and I am just starting to get a real handle on things. (I think)
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