Giving up our power.

Old 05-15-2003, 05:37 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
JT
Supply Manager
Thread Starter
 
JT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Giving up our power.

Last night I was reading Dr Phil's book on finding our authentic self....(My name is JT, I am 50 and I am a forgettaholic)...and he talks about 10 defining moments, 7 critical choices and 5 pivitol people.

I realize at some point in my life I gave up my power and I vividly remember taking it back (one of my critical choices) but when did I give it away?

One of my earliest memories is getting babysat overnight by my aunt. I loved my aunt but this time she threw my bother and I in the tub, and laundered our cloths. I know I felt like she didn't approve of something. I have always, for as long as I can remember felt "less than". I doubt if it really began there, but that certainly helped cement it. The memory is vivid enough for me to be aware of how I treat my grandson when he visits. Of course he baths at my house but I am very careful to not try to make him "more presentable" even if I would like to.

Anyone?
When did we give it away?

JT
JT is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 06:24 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Gave it up, Jt?

As an infant I had none, as a toddler I wanted some......my parents were always the power...I think I tried to take some in my early teens, rebellion etc...as an adult my life has been a gradual emerging awareness of my power and it's PROPER use and application..and I am still struggling with it...
Live is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 07:13 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Paused
 
Gypsygirlmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Climbing outa da Black Hole
Posts: 146
I'm glad started this thread JT. This is something I've been working on alot lately. And I know intellectually, that this is where I stopped believing in myself, where I stopped growing in my ability to take care of myself. Over & Over I keep playing in my mind..."Where was it?" I did come up with several "safe" answers. But as I sat down to type this, and this is hard, it just dawned on me that when I was 10 or something and my father sexually abused me...this is when I could not or did not know how to say NO. And to make it worse, I must have given up all my own power when I did not trust myself to tell anyone about it. Yet, I know I knew it was wrong. This is where I stopped listening and trusting myself. Yet to this day actually, my sister is the only one who knows some of it. And I spent alot of energy protecting her for many years to make sure he didn't do this to her as she was 4 yrs younger than me. I guess it was easier to protect her, than to take care of myself.
Gypsygirlmom is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 07:28 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
margo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 1,714
Perhaps there are small events that start the process of giving it up, giving it away, or just having it eroded by others more powerful - things like shaming, or the need to please when we override a young sense of what's right or fair in order to feel loved by a parent when they show dissaproval. And perhaps there are moments, like Gypsy just spoke of, where there is such a core violation of a child's being that it's not so much given up, but stolen. Gypsy, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
margo is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 07:40 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Good answer,Margo!

I think my earliest recollections are of not being heard..that it was my place to fit the rules and not expressing myself when the rules didn't fit, were a problem, or not appropriate. I saw it as my inablility to fit the rules, not that the rules were wrong. Now, I know those rules were inappropriate. My parents were the rule-givers, the guide book to how it is.

live

PS guide? Geez, they were the final answer! Guide would have been nicer.
Live is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 08:35 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
believer
 
journeygal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
Great thread JT.

I've spent all my life trying to get my power back and I think it was taken away from me at a very early age. It wasn't violently stolen from me, as was the case with Gypsy, but taken nonetheless.

When I was four I attended preschool. Every day a note was sent home to the parents to summarize the child's behavior during the day. They fed us breakfast and lunch and they would give us bad marks if we left any food on our plates. I hate oatmeal, so on the days they served oatmeal I would never eat it. My dad would pick me up from school, read that I was a "bad" girl for not eating my oatmeal, he would yell at me, and then I would get the silent treatment. I vividly remember how it was to ride home in the car, staring out of the passenger window, trying to make myself as invisible as possible.

Wow. That's the first time I really put that into words, but that's exactly what it was. I wanted to be invisible, so he wouldn't have to go out of his way to avoid me.

But you know, even though I knew I'd get in trouble, I never ate the oatmeal. So maybe I still had some of my power at that point....

My dad loved the silent treatment. I got it all the time. During one instance of it I was walking past him in the house and he called me a bitch under his breath. I was probably 14 or 15 at the time. This certainly wasn't the first time he'd said that to me, but for some reason this particular time got me really upset and I started crying. My mom saw me and asked what was wrong and I made the mistake of telling her. She kind of laughed, told me I was too sensitive and to get over it. So I was a bitch and I was too sensitive. Yup, I'd say my power was gone by then....
journeygal is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 09:02 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
margo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 1,714
You know, I have to confess that there was a time when I used to scoff and sneer about the theory of the inner child and would look at it like it was just a bunch of whiny people looking for something to complain about - it was a GREAT avoidance tactic.

I really feel the need to say that I am so completely humbled by reading the posts on this forum, and in particular what Gypsy and Journey just wrote. It's one thing to talk about living our lives with our addicts, but this is absolutely soul-baring stuff and I find it wrenching to read sometimes. The codie in me just wants to gather you all up and hug the living daylights out of you!

I want to thank you for being so open and honest about these events that shaped who you are - it really is a privilege to be here to listen to your stories and participate in these discussions.
margo is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 12:23 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Stephanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
Margo, actually I am still shaking after reading your post the other day. It really broke my heart.

Anyway I'm pretty sure I know when I gave my power away. My mother was very misreable for a variety of reasons. She basically took it out on me. I was "a stupid Fu..en idiot" pretty much all the time. Get the hell out of here was how she greeted me most of the time. Nothing I ever did was good enough. She was resentful that I existed and she let me know it. Driving me to school yelling at me the whole time that she has to do it. She would practically rip my hair out when she brushed it, then she would yank my hair to get my head to turn so she could brush the other side. In the morning to wake me up for school she would rip all the covers off me and yell, GET UP!

She didn't like herself and i reminded her of what she didn't like in herself. She was constantely critisizing my clothes, my hair, my makeup....everything. She insisted on perfection but I was not an A student and in those days I was more comfortable in jeans. She's in politics and wanted me to be some show piece. If I went to eat desert she would give me a dirty look but I didn't have a weight problem, she did.

I don't think I gave my power away through my childhood because I turned to drugs and alcohol and felt powerful in my own right. It wasn't until I started getting involved with men that I started giving my power away and I still do it. I am much more aware of it now and it's gotten a lot better.

I want to change my name back now, Jon's gonna kill me
Stephanie is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 01:26 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
margo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 1,714
(((((Steph))))) I know just what you mean - I will never forget reading these posts as long as I live.

One thing that just occured to me is I think that we all share something else in common here, and that is the gift of empathy. Do any of you that have suffered these outrages believe that you have a more finely tuned sense of empathy? Is this one of the good things that comes from suffering?

Even though I do believe that empathy is a gift, I also wonder if an overload of empathy is what drives us sometimes to try and "save" other people. Is that why we end up being drawn to addicts?

And for those like JG who did not know about the addiction initially, maybe you were able to sense things that were not told to you out loud.

Just thinkin' - does this make any sense?

Last edited by margo; 05-15-2003 at 01:31 PM.
margo is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 03:24 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
Stephanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
Definitely Margo, I think people who have gone through adversity have a deeper sense of empathy. I know that I do and I have always liked the fact that I have so much compassion for others. In thinking about my children, I watch my friend push school and so forth. Personally I would feel more successful if I were to instill empathy and compassion in my children even as opposed to straight A's in school. I think it's more important. Now my husband didn't go through any kind of trauma as a child although he did in his 20's but he is one of the least empathic people I know.

In regard to your other question. For me I don't think it is my ability to empathize that attracted me to an addict. I think, for me, it's because I didn't feel worthy of being treated really well and I think overall people are attracted to and feel more comfortable with what they know best.
Stephanie is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 03:50 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
JT
Supply Manager
Thread Starter
 
JT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
What I am getting out of this is what Live said way up there. Give it up? Did I ever have it?

As an infant and a toddler the adults have the power. They set the rules and the boundaries. If that is done dysfuntionally we never learn true limits. Everything I read about kids says that they appreciate stucture and to know what the limits are. In my life it varied from day to day. What my parents laughed about one day got me in trouble the next.

As I became older I rebelled and exerted power (or so I thought) I became involved with people and situations where I gave up my power. I turned to drugs and alcohol myself...there but for the grace of God...

Now I am remembering a time when my mother was dating her soon to be second husband and I came home after being out with friends. His car was in the drive but the house was dark. I walked in and they jumped off the couch. Nothing bad...just making out. I told my mother the next day that if I ever pulled up to a dark house again with his car there I would not come in. I was 16. Not earth shattering but I smile when I think of the nerve I had to talk to my mom that way.

Falso bravado and empty ultimatums. Not power. Dr Phil talks about those defining moments being the ones where were one person before and another after. That might have been one of them. It was clear that my world had changed.

Hugs,
JT
JT is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 06:22 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Paused
 
Getmylifeback's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wis
Posts: 9
Wow! Being new to the boards and trying to stop drinking.....
I am a ACOAA and I am realizing that I brush my daughters hair very hard sometimes....I need to watch that.
Getmylifeback is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 06:36 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 26
I don't think I ever had power! My very first memory is an incident that ocurred right after my dad married my step mother. I was 3 years old. I've said before that I felt like she resented me from day one. She locked me in a closet in my bedroom. I remember being so scared! I couldn't get out, I was panicking, couldn't breathe, was really hot, and screaming to the top of my lungs. I could faintly hear something (later found out it was the vacuum cleaner). I don't know how long I was in the closet, but it was soooo scary! To this day, I hate closed in spaces!

I learned from then on that I had no power! Another time she was washing my hair in the bathtub and I was wiggling around. She held me under the running water. I still freak out if someone touches me or tries to dunk me in the pool.

I was powerless when my dad molested me. I never said a word. I acted like I was asleep because I was so scared of what he was doing. Then, I never breathed a word of it until just a couple of years ago and then only to a select group of people because I didn't want it broadcast! (So much for that idea...it's been broadcast!)

I honestly don't know what it's like to have "power". That's why it kinda cracks me up when I'm referred to as a "control freak". I've never had any control, so how could I be a control freak?!
MelissaM is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 07:26 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
JT
Supply Manager
Thread Starter
 
JT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
(((((Melissa)))))

OMG...how frightening!

I look back on my own parenting sometimes with regret and I never came close to that! And I never came close to that in my own childhood. I am humbled.

Control Freak? I don't think it is such a far throw. You had no control and when you finally did it ran amuck? Do YOU think control is an issue with you? I know it was with me. The very first thing I did was stop telling my family how to dress. Everytime we went somewhere I was trying to force our best face and it was nothing but a fight.

Now I am the only one that looks good but I am a happier camper!

Hugs,
JT
JT is offline  
Old 05-15-2003, 08:19 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
Stephanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
It hit me so hard when margo siad she was humbled about Gypsy's and Journey's posts, because although they experienced true nightmares ((((Gypsy & Journey))))) I was humbled when Margo first posted about watching her dad beat up her mom. Also, JT just wrote "not earth shattering" about one of her experiences but I was blown away when I read her first post as well. My mother may have hated me and my father neglected me but they hated eachother more and stayed together so ALL of the focus was on me. Even though it was negative in a sense, I couldn't imagine what it must have been like to have both my parents choose new partners over me. ((((((((Margo & JT)))))))

What the hell .......((((((((((((Group Hug)))))))))))))

I'm wondering why I tend to minimize my own experience when I hear all of the other situations. It almost exactly mirrors how I lived my whole life, neglecting myself so I could focus on others. I see almost all of us doing that. What do you guys think?
Stephanie is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 05:06 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
JT
Supply Manager
Thread Starter
 
JT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Steph,

Minimizing our own experiences is what we do best. It is called denial.

There are people here who have experienced obvious abuse. In my case I believe it was more emotional neglect. Maybe MG will pop in here but it seems to me that sexual and physical abuse needs to be dealt with very very carefully. And only at a time that is safe for the victim of that abuse.

When I entered Alanon and heard stories that were much worse than my own I almost used that as an excuse...denial again. At that time there were places I could not go that today have been addressed and are safe. My hope is that this path will make even more places feel safe.

Hugs,
JT
JT is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 05:28 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
believer
 
journeygal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
*****Warning Warning - Rambling Post Ahead!!!! *****

I have been thinking about this stuff all night. So many different thoughts are going through my head...

(((((((Steph)))))))

I have been blown away by everyone's story here. I guess I'm still in denial too b/c my story just doesn't seem very....significant. When I speak of certain events, I'm very detached. I'm over my anger and I've forgiven my parents, but I think I'm too early in my recovery to feel any guilt for talking about it. Well that and the fact that it just doesn't seem all that bad...what all of you guys have been through seems so much worse to me.

My dad's mom was/is very abusive, so I know where he got it from. She's 90 years old and makes everyone's life miserable. My dad has stopped his abuse and he recently took back his power from his mom, who has been abusing him for 60 years. Sometimes people "get it" early in my life, sometimes it takes a little longer, and sometimes they never do.

My mom has not changed. She's still very critical. When I'm around her, I feel that detachment come over me, especially when she's criticizing me about something. It's almost like an out of body experience, like I'm watching her and me interact. I think it's some sort of protective barrier I've set up to keep her words from hurting me. I guess it was my way of taking back my power from her.

(Crazy conversation I had with mom on Mother's Day:

"Mom, I recently had my eyebrows waxed."
"What?!?! Why would you do that to yourself?"
"Cause I wanted to."
"Well I just can't believe you would do that."
Then my sister-in-law says to mom, "Don't you get your eyebrows done?"
Mom says, "Yeah, I get them done all the time!!!!!")

:bojo:
journeygal is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 05:44 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
JT....

I had to laugh....I am 44 years old and I still listen to my mom nag me about the way I dress nearly every time we speak.

GET OFF MY BACK and find something to really worry about!!!!!

Journeygal,

My mom is very critical. I am tired of her offending me. I fight back. Sometimes she backs off but she never learns.
I recently got one of THOSE letters and I just mailed it back to her with a note that said if you can't say something nice don't say it...at least not to me anyway.
I figure if one of us is going to be upset...better her than me.

I am sorry if I am not prepared to address the serious abuse issues here....that's a reflection of me only.


live
Live is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 05:57 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
believer
 
journeygal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
Lightbulb OMG

Can we say light bulb moment?????

I just read what I wrote again about my dad's mom and my own mom and it just hit me - my dad was drawn to my mom b/c she's very critical - just like his own mom!!!! That's what was normal to him, that's the behavior he was used to!!!! OMG - I never drew that parallel before!!! Wow....

Geez, do these cycles ever end?????

(Live, I'm with ya...if I had a nickel for every time the "if you don't have anything nice to say....." thought went through my head....)
journeygal is offline  
Old 05-16-2003, 07:43 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
 
Stephanie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Basement
Posts: 724
I wish I could say that to my mom but I have a whole other flip side of the coin. My mom can't emotionally deal with ANY kind of critisism or even telling her she hurt my feelings. She starts crying and gets so upset that then I have to take care of her.

Here's an example, my mother will just get finished telling me something that is wrong with me and I'll say something like well, that's not a nice thing to say. She acts oblivious to the fact that she said it, starts crying and asks me why I do this to her.

I have always just took it and not reacted to protect her. Does that make sense. Also, if something bad happened to me she couldn't emotionally support me because she felt my pain to much and got so upset. I had to deal with stuff by myself and pretend everything was OK because she couldn't handle it. It was like she didn't know where she ended and I began.
Stephanie is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:40 AM.