Romancing the past,,,
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Romancing the past,,,
And remembering the truth,,,
I went out and bought "Getting Them Sober" today. At the suggestion of Pick-A-Name (thank you Pick, I love you!!)
The author speaks of how we romance the past, and don't remember the truth. It struck a chord with me, because so many times in the past, when caught up in my "codieism" while arguing NONSENSE with my A, I forgot about what happened in the past. My A having a way of twisting and avoiding the subject at hand that oftentimes I would wounder if he heard what I said. Instead, he was doing what he did best, manipulating the situation to avoid the conflict. I would foget about incidents and situations that I wanted to bring to the discussion, because by the end of it all, I was "twisting" and thoroughly CONFUSED
The author of the book, suggest writing down things that happened in the past. He suggest that the reason we codies go into denial and minimization is because we can not trust our memories to come up with the truth.
I've had that happen to me more often than not.
One example I can think of is a never ending argument with my A. About my friends. One certain close friend, who has been there for me when I need him, and in return I tried to be there for him. This friend is also VERY close to my girls. And continues a relationship withthem. This drove my A CRAZY. He said it was "unnatrual". As my A learned about my friendship, during the heat of an argument, he would "twist" this relationships to be unhealthy. Telling me my "friend" was only trying to control me and I should break the tie. Saying that I "sold out" because he helped me. Pointing out to me, that he had ulterior motives and really wanted me for his own. Even saying, "How would you feel if another woman loved me like that". No matter how much I protested this was a friendship and I was in LOVE with my A and not him, my A would insist I was in "denial" and didn't care about how HE felt. At one point, he handed me an ultimatum to end the friendship. In fact, this was one of the incidents that brought us to where we are today. I could not/would not comply.
I thought I was losing my mind. Maybe a little alzheimers? At such a young age too,,,hmmmmmmm,,,,lol
Have you any of you expereinced this?
Peace
I went out and bought "Getting Them Sober" today. At the suggestion of Pick-A-Name (thank you Pick, I love you!!)
The author speaks of how we romance the past, and don't remember the truth. It struck a chord with me, because so many times in the past, when caught up in my "codieism" while arguing NONSENSE with my A, I forgot about what happened in the past. My A having a way of twisting and avoiding the subject at hand that oftentimes I would wounder if he heard what I said. Instead, he was doing what he did best, manipulating the situation to avoid the conflict. I would foget about incidents and situations that I wanted to bring to the discussion, because by the end of it all, I was "twisting" and thoroughly CONFUSED
The author of the book, suggest writing down things that happened in the past. He suggest that the reason we codies go into denial and minimization is because we can not trust our memories to come up with the truth.
I've had that happen to me more often than not.
One example I can think of is a never ending argument with my A. About my friends. One certain close friend, who has been there for me when I need him, and in return I tried to be there for him. This friend is also VERY close to my girls. And continues a relationship withthem. This drove my A CRAZY. He said it was "unnatrual". As my A learned about my friendship, during the heat of an argument, he would "twist" this relationships to be unhealthy. Telling me my "friend" was only trying to control me and I should break the tie. Saying that I "sold out" because he helped me. Pointing out to me, that he had ulterior motives and really wanted me for his own. Even saying, "How would you feel if another woman loved me like that". No matter how much I protested this was a friendship and I was in LOVE with my A and not him, my A would insist I was in "denial" and didn't care about how HE felt. At one point, he handed me an ultimatum to end the friendship. In fact, this was one of the incidents that brought us to where we are today. I could not/would not comply.
I thought I was losing my mind. Maybe a little alzheimers? At such a young age too,,,hmmmmmmm,,,,lol
Have you any of you expereinced this?
Peace
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When we were separated last year I would remember the past. But it wasn't really the past. My memories were skewed. It was dreaming of how I wanted things to be, not how they truly were. I remember when he came to visit in November. He looked so good, so "clean." Said all the "right" things. He was a changed person. Right? Wrong! Two weeks later I was wrapping Christmas gifts and I smelled that smell. What a fool I was. It was down hill at a rapid rate. I ask him to leave in March. He checked himself into a rehab. Stayed for 3 weeks. Called and ask if he could come home. I said, "No." I haven't heard anything from him since he sent an email on Mother's Day. I have been a tad bit sad today. It is just so darn hard.
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((((((LoveRoy))))
And maybe an explanation for why he "looked" so good?
There are differnt "stages" of alcoholism. During the later stages, the A needs the alcohol to SEEM normal. Once the need for alcohol chemically has been satisfied they seem calm and functional. But they can't stay that way for long.
As the disease progresses, the calming periods get harder to attain. The anxiety and/or depressed moods get harder to shake. And so it goes, the continum in the cycle until the A either gets sober, or dies.
We as codies get sucked in when the A is at this "stage" in the disease. Never realizing and seeing it for what it is. So when we "smell that smell" again, we are caught offguard and surprised
LoveRoy, it is NOT us, but the disease
I've learned, sad is part of the healing process. We need to allow ourselves to feel it.
Peace
And maybe an explanation for why he "looked" so good?
There are differnt "stages" of alcoholism. During the later stages, the A needs the alcohol to SEEM normal. Once the need for alcohol chemically has been satisfied they seem calm and functional. But they can't stay that way for long.
As the disease progresses, the calming periods get harder to attain. The anxiety and/or depressed moods get harder to shake. And so it goes, the continum in the cycle until the A either gets sober, or dies.
We as codies get sucked in when the A is at this "stage" in the disease. Never realizing and seeing it for what it is. So when we "smell that smell" again, we are caught offguard and surprised
LoveRoy, it is NOT us, but the disease
I've learned, sad is part of the healing process. We need to allow ourselves to feel it.
Peace
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Hey, CE, how's the weather at your end of the U.S.? It's a cool, balmy 104 degrees here in Arizona. BUT IT'S "DRY" HEAT!! Actually, the humidity is only about 20 percent, so it's dry ... but it's HOT.
They manipulate the situation to avoid conflict. They manipulate the situation to create conflict and grand drama. They manipulate, period. I spent way too long trying to defend myself against AH's false allegations .... everything from my throwing away his wedding band he placed in a drawer in the kitchen (it was in his pant's front pocket) to my attempts, on several occasions, to "kill" him.
Never-ending arguments end when WE walk away from all the b.s. and don't engage them in their sick little game. I refuse to act on my feelings. Sure, there are times I'd like to tell the s.o.b. off, but it would only give me temporary relief - and further convince him that I'm the crazy one. Personally, I can't stand him for what he did to me. However, I don't act on my feelings and usually I talk myself past them and detach. How they love to turn the tables on us and accuse us of doing the very things they do! Crazy-making for sure.
I thought I was losing my mind too until I took action to reclaim it!
They manipulate the situation to avoid conflict. They manipulate the situation to create conflict and grand drama. They manipulate, period. I spent way too long trying to defend myself against AH's false allegations .... everything from my throwing away his wedding band he placed in a drawer in the kitchen (it was in his pant's front pocket) to my attempts, on several occasions, to "kill" him.
Never-ending arguments end when WE walk away from all the b.s. and don't engage them in their sick little game. I refuse to act on my feelings. Sure, there are times I'd like to tell the s.o.b. off, but it would only give me temporary relief - and further convince him that I'm the crazy one. Personally, I can't stand him for what he did to me. However, I don't act on my feelings and usually I talk myself past them and detach. How they love to turn the tables on us and accuse us of doing the very things they do! Crazy-making for sure.
I thought I was losing my mind too until I took action to reclaim it!
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Hey, CE, how's the weather at your end of the U.S.?
Having a ~hot~ spell outselves, temps around 80. Ya, ya, ya, I know about that DRY heat,,,he,he,he, Anyway, its not too tough being on an island 
Caught me a 29 inch striper today, having it for dinner tonite with some friends.I feel like I am learning EVERY day.
The more I "detach" the more "normal" I become. I can't deny the calm and serenity. Sure, thoughts of 'romancing the past" come through, usually when I least expect it. But after banging my head against the proberbial wall for so long, I REMEMBER the truth. Each time I let my A suck me in, I contiue the growth and learning. Each time I get closer to reclaiming my lost mind, heart and core.
Peace
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I started writing everything down I could think of, all the rotten things he did and said. (One of his classics was not letting me go to the hospital to get my gallbladder removed because it was too much money. This from the man that considers four joints and ten beers a day as being a great use of money.) The more I wrote, the more I remembered. Lot's of stuff I just buried that took a long while to come out. Now when I start getting sentimental about the past that I essentially created in my own mind to tolerate reality, I read my list of AH's greatest hits (about ten pages and still going strong) and I start counting my blessings!
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thanks CE for posting this. I am dealing with the same thing. Distorted memories. So easy to forget how bad things really were... Easy to remember the few/rare good.
(((((CE))))).. Going to get this book.
(((((CE))))).. Going to get this book.
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Originally Posted by CE Girl 
I went out and bought "Getting Them Sober" today. At the suggestion of Pick-A-Name (thank you Pick, I love you!!)
Thanks,CE...I love you,too!
Glad you are finding the book helpful, and thanks for posting this timely reminder to me! Long weekends can get my thoughts racing.....
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yes, thank you for this reminder... as this is exactly what I am going through right now, thinking that I should give him another chance (even though he hasn't even asked for one!!) because "maybe things weren't so bad"... that is crazy!!!! of course things were bad or I wouldn't be on the brink of divorce...
I am going to write down all of the crazy stuff too, great idea guinapigjude! that would be the best reference when I am second guessing myself... ugh.
I am going to write down all of the crazy stuff too, great idea guinapigjude! that would be the best reference when I am second guessing myself... ugh.
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Writing down the things your A did that caused you to quoestion your sanity is EXCATLY what the book suggests. While I was at the bookstore, I bought a big arse journal. Between reading and writing, I think I found my calling,,,lol
Another interesting tid bit in the book. And NO I am not this authors publisher,,he,he,he is the concept that the alcoholic will ALWAYS come back.
What you say?!?!?!?
One of the main things holding codies back from keeping a no contact boundry is fear. Because of low self esteem, zero self confidence and deviating from the norm (no matter HOW dysfunctional) codies who 'detach" have a fear that their A will all of a sudden "see the light" and move on with their lives. Getting "healthy" and happy while we stuggle to find our own freedom. How many times on this board alone, do we read about newly detached obsessing about what their A's are doing, worrying they will find someone else who will reap the benefits of our labors for all those years?
Well, I'm here to tell ya, the author is correct, the A will always come back
Typically, its when you begin to not want to have he/she around anymore!!!
Why?
The A develops what he calls alcoholic radar
They know just what to do, and when to pop up. The example he gives is a woman who divorced her A 40 years prior. Remarried and went on with her life. He EA lived in the woods, but NEVER missed a b-day, holiday and sent his ex wife cards, flowers, gifts without fail. In converstaion, he STILL referred to her as his "wife"
Pretty sad huh?
The author was critisized for this concept, but felt that if the codie had this information, during the "panicky" times it can be comforting to have this knowledge. If the codie knowsthe A will probably come back if their willing to put up with it, it allows the codie to stop worrying/obsessing and focus on their own recovery
hmmmmmmmmmmm,,food for thought. Ya think?!?!?
Peace
Another interesting tid bit in the book. And NO I am not this authors publisher,,he,he,he
is the concept that the alcoholic will ALWAYS come back. What you say?!?!?!?
One of the main things holding codies back from keeping a no contact boundry is fear. Because of low self esteem, zero self confidence and deviating from the norm (no matter HOW dysfunctional) codies who 'detach" have a fear that their A will all of a sudden "see the light" and move on with their lives. Getting "healthy" and happy while we stuggle to find our own freedom. How many times on this board alone, do we read about newly detached obsessing about what their A's are doing, worrying they will find someone else who will reap the benefits of our labors for all those years?
Well, I'm here to tell ya, the author is correct, the A will always come back
Typically, its when you begin to not want to have he/she around anymore!!!
Why?
The A develops what he calls alcoholic radar
They know just what to do, and when to pop up. The example he gives is a woman who divorced her A 40 years prior. Remarried and went on with her life. He EA lived in the woods, but NEVER missed a b-day, holiday and sent his ex wife cards, flowers, gifts without fail. In converstaion, he STILL referred to her as his "wife"
Pretty sad huh?
The author was critisized for this concept, but felt that if the codie had this information, during the "panicky" times it can be comforting to have this knowledge. If the codie knowsthe A will probably come back if their willing to put up with it, it allows the codie to stop worrying/obsessing and focus on their own recovery
hmmmmmmmmmmm,,food for thought. Ya think?!?!?
Peace
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by CE Girl
And remembering the truth,,,
The author speaks of how we romance the past, and don't remember the truth. It struck a chord with me, because so many times in the past, when caught up in my "codieism" while arguing NONSENSE with my A, I forgot about what happened in the past. My A having a way of twisting and avoiding the subject at hand that oftentimes I would wounder if he heard what I said. Instead, he was doing what he did best, manipulating the situation to avoid the conflict. I would foget about incidents and situations that I wanted to bring to the discussion, because by the end of it all, I was "twisting" and thoroughly CONFUSED
The author speaks of how we romance the past, and don't remember the truth. It struck a chord with me, because so many times in the past, when caught up in my "codieism" while arguing NONSENSE with my A, I forgot about what happened in the past. My A having a way of twisting and avoiding the subject at hand that oftentimes I would wounder if he heard what I said. Instead, he was doing what he did best, manipulating the situation to avoid the conflict. I would foget about incidents and situations that I wanted to bring to the discussion, because by the end of it all, I was "twisting" and thoroughly CONFUSED
I went through this last evening with my A. It has been 2 weeks since our brief "break up" where I really thought I was done and ready to not give another moment to this relationship. Of course I listened to his pleas and promises etc and home he is yet again. Well after 2 weeks, the promises and committments for reaching out for help have not materialized. I ventured last night into the potential war zone when I dare speak up and ask for follow through. Of course it was exactly as you described above. I didn't sleep much last night, when I did fall asleep I woke within a few moments with a high anxiety level and would be startled awake by choking from not being able to catch my breath.
I am livid this morning because although A does have a cold, it isn't really bad but of course he called in this morning sick to work and is sleeping away like a baby while I got up at the crack of dawn to tend to kids etc. I'm exhausted and afraid and feel like I'm sticking my neck in a noose with this decision to try this whole thing again. I feel like I'm on a train heading for a wreck and too stupid to jump off before it crashes!!!
This post has given me a ton to think about and helped more than you know!
Again, thank you!
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((((((COnfusedgf)))))))
I know EXCATLY how you feel. And I am so SORRY for you.
In the past, I too would be the one who "suffered" after a bout of this insanity.
In 6 months, I moved out 3 times. I mean EVERYTHING!!! Usually, it was in the middle of the night. I have two cats, so not only was I MADLY packing my things, but wouldn't THINK of leaving the "boys" cause he would threaten to hang them. Wasn't gonna call his bluff.
We lived 125 miles apart. So every time I would move out, I had to drive 2 1/2 hours home, in the middle of the night, through rough windy moutnain roads. Once it was raining so hard, and I was crying so hard, I almost went off the road.
Now here's the kicker
The next day, I would be right back on the phone with him. He'd woo me back, and yup, you guessed it, packed EVERYHTING up again and off I went like the good little codie
I'd be exhausted, and he's be sleeping/eating like a baby
I'm still struggling. Haven't seen/verbally talked to him in almost two months
Up until 2 days ago (yup day 2, YAY ME!!) was still doing the codie/alki dance via email. I FORGOT to REMEMBER the TRUTH!!!! The only SAVING grace is I did not have to DEAL with him LIVE. It does lessen the blow a bit.
I know my A is "playing the game" right now. No email or contact from him these past two days. So, I'm takng the second half of my post, and REMEMBERING the "alcoholic rada". Just as I am confident and comfortable with the absolutly NO CONTACT, he will come back.
The focus now is building on my SKILLS to keep him away
Peace
PS, Confusedgf, write it down. While its still "fresh" and you remember the incident, the details and most importantly HOW YOU FEEL, write it down. Then continue your recovery. Some day you may need to go back and REMEMBER
I know EXCATLY how you feel. And I am so SORRY for you.
In the past, I too would be the one who "suffered" after a bout of this insanity.
In 6 months, I moved out 3 times. I mean EVERYTHING!!! Usually, it was in the middle of the night. I have two cats, so not only was I MADLY packing my things, but wouldn't THINK of leaving the "boys" cause he would threaten to hang them. Wasn't gonna call his bluff.
We lived 125 miles apart. So every time I would move out, I had to drive 2 1/2 hours home, in the middle of the night, through rough windy moutnain roads. Once it was raining so hard, and I was crying so hard, I almost went off the road.
Now here's the kicker
The next day, I would be right back on the phone with him. He'd woo me back, and yup, you guessed it, packed EVERYHTING up again and off I went like the good little codie
I'd be exhausted, and he's be sleeping/eating like a baby
I'm still struggling. Haven't seen/verbally talked to him in almost two months
Up until 2 days ago (yup day 2, YAY ME!!) was still doing the codie/alki dance via email. I FORGOT to REMEMBER the TRUTH!!!! The only SAVING grace is I did not have to DEAL with him LIVE. It does lessen the blow a bit.
I know my A is "playing the game" right now. No email or contact from him these past two days. So, I'm takng the second half of my post, and REMEMBERING the "alcoholic rada". Just as I am confident and comfortable with the absolutly NO CONTACT, he will come back.
The focus now is building on my SKILLS to keep him away
Peace
PS, Confusedgf, write it down. While its still "fresh" and you remember the incident, the details and most importantly HOW YOU FEEL, write it down. Then continue your recovery. Some day you may need to go back and REMEMBER
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Romancing the past. That's a great title because that is exactly what I do.
This is so true. What if this time is THE time? What if everything I ever wanted for him and from him I could have if I hadn't left? What if all I had to endure was another year? After 12 of them I could handle one more to get back my marriage, hopes, dreams.
But in my head I know better.
I have the list of everything he did to me. But I can excuse it all away.
Arguing with an A? No point in that.
There have been so many times after trying to reason with him when I would walk away and think, DOES he have a problem? He would totally convince me otherwise. It was so strange. Of course he has a problem. I can't really recall how that all came about but it happened over and over...things like that.
Originally Posted by CE Girl
codies who 'detach" have a fear that their A will all of a sudden "see the light" and move on with their lives. Getting "healthy" and happy while we stuggle to find our own freedom. How many times on this board alone, do we read about newly detached obsessing about what their A's are doing, worrying they will find someone else who will reap the benefits of our labors for all those years?
This is so true. What if this time is THE time? What if everything I ever wanted for him and from him I could have if I hadn't left? What if all I had to endure was another year? After 12 of them I could handle one more to get back my marriage, hopes, dreams.
But in my head I know better.
I have the list of everything he did to me. But I can excuse it all away.
Arguing with an A? No point in that.
There have been so many times after trying to reason with him when I would walk away and think, DOES he have a problem? He would totally convince me otherwise. It was so strange. Of course he has a problem. I can't really recall how that all came about but it happened over and over...things like that.
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I can't really recall how that all came about but it happened over and over...things like that.
Theres something WRONG with that picture.
They are MASTERS of manipulation and will keep "stabbing in the dark" to hit one of your buttons. That's the only way I can describe it when I think of how my A use to manipulate me emotionally. I too have come out of one of those "discussions" thinking I was the one with the problem. Ummmmmmm,,,,let me see, I don't DRINK
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't CURE it
Oh, and remember the second half of my post?
They always come back
Aren't you experiencing this now? You know why? Cause he KNOWS you have not detached. He can "use" you like he always did.
I'm gonna get tough now
Your treading on VERY dangerous waters. If you succum it is going to escalate. I'm concerned for your SAFETY!!!!
PLease stay strong and let him figure out his freakin MESS himself
I'm sorry if I overstepped your boundry.
Peace
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
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You didn't overstep anything, Sis.
I am questioning my own sanity. What a strange way to look at it.
They do always come back, don't they? The smell, the feeling, the thought.
The thought that maybe he is will always be there.
I think alcohol will always be a part of me...a part of us. If there was an us.
I am questioning my own sanity. What a strange way to look at it.
They do always come back, don't they? The smell, the feeling, the thought.
The thought that maybe he is will always be there.
I think alcohol will always be a part of me...a part of us. If there was an us.
Fool To Do Your Dirty Work
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thanks for this post.....i was actually getting so sick that i stated once to one of my friends, that i would actually take a punch in the face if that was what it took to make him stop drinking and never go back....WHAT??????? that was about 5 weeks ago - i guess we are all making slow, steady progress....
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Chero, thank you for your response, and tons of hugs and complete understanding to you! I am about to post a thread, after responding to this thread and reading responses again, I found a online checklist and filled it in and emailed it to myself with a letter to myself. I am going to post it here hoping that it will be of help to other people to whatever degree. I think it is a positive way to stop hiding from myself or conning myself and my way of thinking. It is just a step forward (I hope) but at least it's better than sticking my head in the sand and "romancing the past".
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I know my A is "playing the game" right now. No email or contact from him these past two days. So, I'm takng the second half of my post, and REMEMBERING the "alcoholic rada". Just as I am confident and comfortable with the absolutly NO CONTACT, he will come back.
So, i took the final step towards no contact and stopped responding to email three days ago. Two of them were BLISS. Today, I come to work and theres a barrage of them in my work mailbox. Ok, yup, I read em. And I could tell you when he was on his way, WELL on his way, almost there and finally TRASHED. Nonsense and incoherent.
But I am maintaining the boundry.
Back to my book, back to this thread and what I learned this weekend. I'm at the point, its too hard to learn the lesson only to ignore it later. My journal is helping me remember WHY I have to do this for ME.
It is NO LONGER about him, and his "alcoholic radar' is going off BIG TIME.
So, how'd everyone else make it through the weekend?
Peace
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Wow, ladies, what a great thread! I totally agree, it is easy to forget all the struggles we put up with. And that fear that one day he'll clean up and be wonderful to someone else...well, that's exactly what I have been struggling with while deciding whether to leave him or not! It helps to know that I am not the only one whose mind plays tricks on them. Hugs to you all!
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