CE Girl

I'm learning JUST what a "relapse" is all about,,and Oh Brother, more "bonding" with the A

Back and forth with the A. All on email. Still won't talk to him on the phone. And now I'm glad I didn't. It's like it reaches a crescendo. He slowly, gently sucks me in. words of sweetness and light at first. All about respecting my boundry not to see/talk to him, understanding what he did to me, and apoligies all over the place. I bite, tell him about my "recovery" and then the venom begins. He tells me he didn't realize I was that "sick" and supports me taking care of me.

Then in the next breath, he asks me if I am "dating"

So, I know, this is a "hook". My past expereince tells me, no matter how I answer, I can't win. If I say no (truth) he will tell me the "spirits" tell him the oppostie. Yup, he uses my spirits against me. If I tell him yes (lie) he will attack me for my disloyalty.

SO, I don't answer

That pisses him off

He then accuses me of "avoiding the question. I finally tell him he should be worry about HIM and not me and that is why I didn't answer the question QUACK<QUACK<QUACK,,,,Ok, typing it I CLEARLY see how a full fledge relapse occurs. It's not just a "binge" there are levels and warning signs all the way TO that full fledged BINGE!!!!

I know I have to avoid FULL FLEDGE BINGE

My thinking is all over the place. Even though I had to be STUBBORN and prove to myself NOTHIING had changed, I still have grandioses ideas that he will GET IT!!! This is where the disconnect comes in my brain. It shouldn't MATTER if he gets it, what matters is my sanity and PEACE. I don't have any today.

I have to stop. Last email, I read, responded too and told him, ok, enough, back to block. The boundry stands.

Please spirits, help me keep it,,,,

Peace

chero

Relapse. That's what was discussed at my Alanon meeting this morning.

They were talking about how we hate it when the alcoholic relapses and yet we do it ourselves in our own recovery.

The only thing to do...pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start over.

It's totally doable. Remember how many days you went before? What was it, CE, 10 or so?? It's doable.

So you relapsed. What would you tell me?...Big Deal! Start over.

You can fall down as many times as it takes you to stop the cycle. I think it's safe to say we have all done it. We have all had relapses.

Remember how far you've come and now reach around and pat yourself on the back!

loveRoy

It is like I always tell my girls, "Tomorrow is a new day."

CE Girl

CHRIST (excuse my language) I can't keep the "boundry"

Just came back from dinner with some friends, 19 emails!! Ok, so I know half of them were written DRUNK!! I know his pattern. All over the place. First its my fault, then its his, all kinds of contradictions in the SAME email. THANK THE SPIRITS, I am at least not crossing the no phone call boundry!!!

So, what do I do like the "good little codie"?

Respond ot each and EVERY one of them

More and more rage coming out with each response

I'm thinking of getting a punching bag

Or a dart board where the bull's eye is HIS FACE

Ok, my SR Sears, why do I have so much RAGE?!?!? Why do I let him push my buttons like this?!!?!?

I don''t understand, that of ALL the people in my life why he has so much POWER and CONTROL over my emotions

I am so disapointed in my reaction. I want to scream. And NO,,,I don;t like the drama. I LOVED this man, isn't it NORMAL to not want him to think these things of me? No matter how I try to explain, he twist and turns EVERYTHING I say to me and MY shortcomings. Even as I type, I KNOW its not my fault. Then WHY do I feel he is right

I'm soooooooooo FREAKIN frustrated

So much for a "different" holiday

PEACE, (some day?)

Pick-a-name

Do you have "Getting Them Sober"? Sometime, when I feel like you describe and drifting back into the old "dance", I go to bed (if I'm lucky!) and read a few chapters of that and it calms me down and I go to sleep. That gives me time to regroup...usually!

Good luck. I'll remind myself as I remind you; it's a process!

newenglandgirl

Hey CEgirl,

Listen, it's NOT easy to break up with someone! Even when alcoholism isn't in the mix, it's still wicked hard! It's totally understandable that you'd have your "weak" moments. In a way, it's part of the process. A necessary part. There's no where to go but through. You've just gotta go through all the steps.

You ARE growing...and this is not going to go on forever if you keep working on you.

Instead of being so hard on yourself, take these "relapses" as a time to dig deep and figure out what exactly is in it for you to answer these emails? What part of you is being fed by keeping the dance going? Can you pinpoint what kind of feelings/thoughts lead you to let the boundary down?

You're right, he's just quacking...and communicating with him is only dragging you down and sucking your energy. But I know it's so hard to really realize that we're just not getting anywhere with them. Trust me, I've spent hours trying to "work things out" with my AH...but the sad truth is that it's just me talking and trying...my AH is no longer capable of normal exchange of info.

It's been really hard for me too (to not have contact with my AH). I think what helps me the most is just trying to always keep in mind what wise people at SR have told me: if he really wanted to get better...if he really wanted us to work and have a future...he would've run to detox/rehab/AA....there wouldn't be any need to have these crazy phonecalls/emails...he would just DO IT...but the sad truth is that he's not ready/willing/wanting. No matter how much he calls/emails. I have to pay attention to actions - not words.

chero

Hey CE! I hope you are getting some rest right now.

This is a new day and another chance to keep those boundaries you set.

New is right! Try answering these questions. Find out WHY you answer his mail.

So he calls you terrible things and lies to you and carries on...like an alcoholic!
It only matters if you keep responding. It only matters if it matters to you.

So ask yourself why it matters so much to you what he says.
Because of love?
Do you love him as much as you love yourself?

CE Girl

so, I got the morning after hangover I'm ashamed and embarrased and full of regret. I'm always said no one could be harder on myself than me

Thank you NEG. I've actually been thinking that this morning. Take the day to figure out how I got sucked in again. My immediate tendancy is to blame my A. But I know, I was in control (or out) and I let it happen. He was mearly following his usual "direction".

Can I pinpoint what made me let my boundry down? Right now, I'd say faith and hope. Faith that he can do it, hope that he WILL do it for "us".

How absolutely STUPID huh?

I think I should do a little more thinking on this.

SO, of course, I read his barrage back this morning. I know, I know, but I actually think it helped. Without going into detail, let's just say, he was none to kind Pushed me over the edge enough to begin day one. And truth be told, get back into my program.

What I learned

You have to PAY ATTENTION to your program. Don't let your guard down, or anything else detract from that. Don't take it for granted. It's hard, cause day to day gets in the way, and you think, I don't need to go to a meeting, I'm good. I don't need to post on the SR board, instead let me WASTE that time playing whose a BIGGER ******** with my A,,,DUH

PICKANAME, Thank you, you gave me at least the start of a plan today. I'm going to get that book

I'm so glad you guys are here

Peace

Oh, by the way SISTA CHERO<<<<you gave some kick butt advice!!! Your absolutely right. I got to face the fact I love him more than I love myself. That is very, very sad

kglast

(((CE))) - hmmm...loving him more than i love myself....definitely food for thought.

sorry you are having such a hard time, girl! i have been up and down all weekend - mine has not tried to contact me since last Monday and I don't know how i feel about it. part of me is glad that i have not been forced to try to avoid him, but at the same time, why isn't he calling????what is he doing?>??? this is my struggle this weekend. oh, and desperately missing the physical part of our relationship which was always very good....

anyone else dealing with that??? missing the physical part??? not ready to be with anyone else yet, and not WILLING to go back....grrr!!!!!

MsGolightly

CE - for months, i responded to every email from my A. they could be rude, nasty, nice, loving, etc., i ALWAYS felt the need to respond. for me, it wasn't about control, it wasn't having to get the last word in, it was like another way for me to clarify what i was thinking, how much i loved her, how much i wanted her to do what was right.

did any of them get the point across? no. i periodically go through my email and delete them, and i feel so ashamed and embarrassed at most of them, that i can't even bring myself to read what i said. it's that bad!

oh, those angry ones, don't even get me started. i've said so much out of anger, stuff that just isn't me or that i would never say if i wasn't in a fit of rage. it happens to the best of us... just gotta start all over. don't open any more emails - nothing said in an email is going to make the difference anymore. like NEG said, it's about actions, not words, so why bother reading that garbage!

CE Girl

Thanks for this ITFM. It appears I don't have to worry about opening any more, since its now the "familiar" game. He thinks I'm nuts, gonna call the police cause he's truly in "fear" of me and says I was drunk.

Oh brother

What he REALLY means is, lets see if my "quacking" worked and you respond to this trash

Naw, I'd rather have those words be the last ones embedded in my mind.

It makes it easier to not contact him

I was thinking today, I haven't SEEN my A for almost 2 months. A boundry I have not crossed. That would of been the end of me. In that thought process, I say to myself, when are you giong to BELIEVE its over? You can't have a "relationship" with someone you don't SEE!! DUH

So, I beat myself up for answering emails?!?!?!?

I need to PAT MYSELF on the back for not seeing him, or "speaking" to him "live" (no phone contact for 2 months either).

So why am I desperatly hanging on to this "connection" in email form?

BINGO!! That's why. I needed the "clarity". And when it wasn't the "clarity" I was looking for, I kept trying to CLARIFY!!! no, no, no A, think THIS way, not THAT. I'm sure that sounds NUTS, but it makes perfect sense to me if you think banging your head against a wall is sensible.

And not one has gotten the point across ye.

Ok, so my last "boundry". No email.

Day one

Peace

minnie

Interesting thread, and one that sparks tons of thoughts, but I don't have the brain power to get them out just now.

When dealing with an active alcoholic, it helped me to remember one thing - he needs an excuse to drink. And I needed an excuse to not look at the things inside me that needed looking at. The drama served the same purpose for both of us, in fact.

The interaction by email/text/phone satisfied both of our needs. The words didn't mean anything except to keep either of us from addressing the real issues. Trust me, there will come a time when you can read those emails for what they really are, however it takes time and distance.

You are not communicating on the level you think you are.The words are just a means to an end.

That doesn't really address what you have written about on this thread, I don't think, but they are just the thoughts that came up when I read it.

CE Girl

Actually Minnie, as usual, your post deals with this thread PERFECTLY

That's one of the LEVELS that brings you up and OUT of the relapse.

However, for me the level that comes before it is to avoid the binge. I'm on day 2, and actively working that level of diggin myself OUT of this relapse.

Someday, I hope to acheive the ability to LOOK back, and see those email for what they are. And take the next step and DELETE every single one of them

Peace

BTW,,,I missed you

chero

What does this mean?

CE Girl

Chero, I think what Minnie is saying is that the WORDS don't matter, its the conintuing "twisting" that satifys us. The means (words) to the end (twisting)

One of the things I have struggled with in my own recovery is realizing then ACCEPTING that twisting, obsessing and suffering at the hands of my A is a need I actually have to have satisfied in MYSELF!!

That frankly SUCKS

No one wants to admit to themselves that they actually NEED this crap in their life

What it means for me, then something is obviously MISSING in ME!!!!

I can't tall you what it is yet. Delving into that as we speak. I sense it has to do with how I think of myself. I call it , "I am unworthyness"

Now the trick is to convnce MYSELF I am WORTHY. Not only WORTHY, but the best CATCH in the sea

AM I making sense?

Peace

PS How'd I do Minnie?

minnie

Chero - if you read the "Famous Quotes" thread, you will see so many of the same words coming out of very different mouths. What does this say to you? That drinkers have a text file implanted in their brain via a glass of beer? Or that perhaps the words are used as a means to achieving a goal with the people with whom they interact? It is not a coincidence that the words are so familiar - they are their own language, the language of manipulation.

I used to pick up those words and run with them at face value. But that was a merry go round of hell, because that was not actually the level on which we were communicating - words were not about communication of facts and thoughts and feelings. They were about manipulation, drama, control and abuse. They were weapons (for both of us) that we used instead of fists.

CE - yes, I think you have got the jist of what I was trying to say, although I hope Denny or someone can shed some more light. I needed it too. The relationship with R wasn't the first time I had used similar tactics, although it was certainly the most intense and dramatic. I was trying to manipulate R as much as he was trying to manipulate me. He had way more experience than me, though, and at prolonged levels of intensity throughout his life. So, I was the one who came out the loser wondering what on earth was going on.

I believe that these kinds of dramatic interactions cause a chemical reaction in our brains that becomes addictive and familiar. On the infrequent occasion that I receive communication from R, I can actually feel a physical reaction. I think I used to get a (sick) thrill from it, but now it just feels toxic to me. That's as good a reason as any to maintain no contact.

Oh, and thanks for the "miss you". Just been on a quick sail to Dublin for the weekend. Had a fab time, although the family dynamics were interesting, especially as my bro and his g/f were there and I see red flags all over their relationship. Such a test for me.....*sigh*

CE Girl

Once a codie, always a codie,,,lol

The reason I started this thread was so we could "visually" see the levels we go through when we relapse and run the risk of a "binge"

As you can tell by my first post, I was on a downward slide. The skills I have obtained through RIGIROUS work of a personal program, stopped me from the "binge". Though in the not so distant past, I woulda been FULL FLEDGED by now.

As I post this, I have realized a "level' in my own recovery. Taking RESPONSIBILITY for what I own. I don't mean in a "boy, he was right way". My A doesn't derserve that. But in a way that makes me truly LOOK at what inside of me, allowed another to have control.

It was the drama and the manipulation that numbed me from myself.

I didn't have to look. It was EASIER playing the game. Just as Minnie says they were not about facts, thought or FEELINGS, but instead a deadly game of who could manipulate who better. I agree that my A came out the "winner". And you knoiw what, I'm ok with that. What I came out with was a realizaton that playing kept me looking at myself.

At the time of this relationship I had come off of some very personal crisis in my life. I beleive, I buried my feelings about those events, instead focusing on the A. Something I could control. The events were laden with hard core enlightenment about me. It is time for me to face them.

I wasn't gonna even write that. It just came out.

What I WAS going to say, I don't know about the whole "chemical" thing. But, I will say something happens to me phisiologically (sp) when I interact with my A. Heart pounding, breathing distrubed, sometimes I feel I'm hyperventalating. Very REAL physical symptoms. They have to come from some place right?

Peace

minnie

CE - ya know, it is really hard with my bro, even with a fair amount of recovery under my belt. My old pal Minx who used to post here was "suggesting" to me that I keep my hands off, and she is right. You'd a thunk that he'd know better, having witnessed my hell first and a half hand, but seemingly not. Anyway, he is big in the honeymoon stage, so any comment by me would cause no end of problems. He is not without his issues, and it would be cruel of me to take away a learning opportunity from him.

Yup, responsibility. To me, that is what recovery is all about. I own my part. That's not to say that I minimise the part of others, and in certain situations, a sense of "apportionment" comes into play. However, I ain't ever gonna get anywhere if I lay ot all at someone else's feet. At bare minimum, I let him do all that stuff to me. Passivity isn't a defence.

I have binged plenty in the past. Some of it not so recent, although my responses were very different than they once were and I was able to strip out the emotion in my words. The physical feelings were very similar, though. On that score, a very dear former poster, Equus, taught me a valuable lesson - the brain is a part of the body like anything else. Hormones, especially cortisol (make a note of that name, because I have hunch that you'll be seeing more of it in this context in the future), cause physical reactions, triggered by stress. Anyway, I'm kinda digressing.

A whole, vast tranche of my recovery stemmed from asking the question - why did I get so involved with a problem drinker and not walk away?

CE Girl

That IS the question isn't it.

For each of us complicated. I'm understanding the disease of alcoholism however, as I am expereincing some of the same tendancy's. I beleive if you get something out of a relapse, then it happened for a reason. And shame on you if you don't learn the lesson.

So, for me, this relapse, is leaving me attempting to answer that question. Oh sure, I've asked myself it before, but answer "how the hell do I know" before I REALLY get a chance to look at it. Think I'm "avoiding"?!?!?! Ya think?!?!?

One thing I did this time, that I have not done in the past, was ~purge~. Said some not so nice things, but let go of the guilt. In the begining I questioned and was validated that getting my TRUE feelings out to my A would not be beneficial. It was to me. that simple, May not be for others, but for me, it was like FINALLY letting the load of ballons free to the wind. I got it out. I'm sure he was shocked. In the past I cajoled, ***** footed and smoothed my way around them.

With those ballons gone. I can move on.

In a way, I hope it shocked/hurt him so much, he finally has accepted we will no longer be. It is TRULY over.

In this day, I "feel" it too. TIme to finally move on,,

Perfect timing too. I am about to leave my BELOVED island for a new and exciting phase in my life. I'm scared as a jackrabbit, but CONFIDENT I can "pull it off".

Oh, and Minnie, I know how difficult your brothers sitatuation is and how you must be living what you learned to stay away. Going through the same thing with my sister. Recovering 30 year DA. Relapsed last week and tried to take her life. right now, I'm struggling with whether to go see her in the rehab. I know she wants me to come, but frankly, I don't feel it would be good for ME. Reminders of the past with my A, plus I've been a codie in her life before too. Don't want to replace one with another.

Is that bad?

Peace


Peace

minnie

Heck, CE, I can see now that I have had the same lessons thrown at me over the years but it took one hell of an experience for it to hit home. So be it.

Purging? Interesting topic. I think purging is good for my soul. I'm just not sure that purging at HIM does me any good. After all, am I not just feeding him by doing that?

On a tangent, I was having a conversation with my mum tonight about my 94 year old Gran who is hospitalised at the moment and really needs to be in a residential home and is resisting all the way (there is a lot of her in me lol!), although we are being quite gentle with her at present. As I said to Mum, perhaps she needs to go home, realise she can't cope and THEN will go willingly. And as long as we voice our concerns without expectation of the outcome, perhaps she will take them all on board in her own good time. Not much different to dealing with a drinker, no?

p.s. you won't get any closure on this situation unless you give it to yourself.