Separating Marital Problems from Alcohol Problems

Old 05-03-2007, 08:17 AM
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Separating Marital Problems from Alcohol Problems

How do you separate the problems in your marriage from the problems that resulted from a spouse's alcoholism?

I am preparing to move out and into a townhome with 3-year old DD. Our new lease starts next week. My AH (now in outpatient, actively attending AA) seems to feel that there is much more to the separation than his drinking. He was the kind of guy that never really talked about how he was feeling before, and now with his sobriety, 7 years of supressed feelings are coming to the surface. He feels that I have been too controlling and has felt "subservient" within the household.

I will defintiely admit that I need to work on some control issues. I MEAN THAT. That is something I feel I can own up to. That can be done through marriage and individual counseling once he remains sober for at least a 6-month stretch. But, how do I separate my control issues from his "out of control" behaviors? The more he was out of control, the more I felt I had to be in control. Probably a good thing we are separating for a while, no?

I.E. - one of the things that actually bothers him is that he doesn't get a say in dinner menus. I usually do the grocery shopping and cooking. He does like to cook too. But, the reason I do that is b/c he does work late and I would like to have a family dinner before DD goes to bed. ALSO, he has cooked intoxicated on MANY occasions and I felt many well intentioned dinners were ruined. He would cook stuff like Coq au vin (sp?) and then pass out and leave me to eat alone and do many dishes.

That's what I mean... how do I separate marital issues from those issues that stemmed from drinking?? Every couple has their problems -- disease or no disease! But, I am struggling with this twist from him b/c it makes me feel like our marriage was the cause of his drinking... and I felt we had a pretty happy marriage before everything started to spin out of control.

Advice???

Thanks!
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:48 AM
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I understand. We were not able (in the last few years) to discuss or workout any conflicts; AH began drinking the moment he walked in the door until he "fell asleep" every night. We went to counseling a few times before he filed for divorce (btw he is still drinking,etc) but his complaints were things basically involving the drinking issues (ie I spent too much time with our kids,did not want to go out and "party",etc....never an issue until his drinking picked up and started to disrupt our entire family largely because he no longer was participating). I know that many counselors won't even see a couple until the drinking stops and the A has been in recovery for a period of months.

Hopefully, you will both get your own recoveries under your belt and then be able to address a new start. Good luck!
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:56 AM
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I think co-dependency brings a certain degree of control with it. It's possible someone is controlling before becoming involved with an addict and it works because the alcoholic likes having someone take control of all the stuff he/she doesn't want to bother with.

For me it would be about whether the control issue was being used as blame for the drinking or an honest attempt to share. Counseling down the road could possibly help with that.

Good luck with everything.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:26 AM
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This is so familiar ! In my situation it was very gradual but the more & more he drank the more & more I couldnt depend on him so I stopped . I did everything on my own . Took care of the kids , signed them up for activitys without consulting with him , at every family party I fixed our kids plates and I said when it was time to leave ( on the occassions that he did go with us , the kids & I usually left him there )
I voiced this to my husband myself when he was in his last week of rehab . I told him the reason for the separation was so that we could both heal , that there was no way I could just, at the snap of a finger, give up some of the control that I have . I was going to have to learn how to depend on him and trust him to do things (like pay the bills and drive the kids to activitys) and it would take time . He has been in rehab before and was always quick to bring up all the things that were wrong with me . It took until this last time that he realizes he needs to worry about his recovery and I need to worry about mine .

I think you are doing great . It was adviced to us to hold off on marriage counseling for at least 3 - 6 months and during that time do our own individual counseling instead . I think we will all (you & your A .. & me & mine) will have a lot more to offer when he have a better view of ourselves and it can only help our chances of staying together.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:34 AM
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LGLG it sounds like you did just what my wife did, she took over, raised hell with me about my drinking, then hit me with the ultimatum.

Troubled all I can tell you is my experience, almost every marital problem we had dissappeared when I sobered up, but that sure does not mean that is true in all cases. My first sponsor and his wife divorced 2 years after he got sober after a 20 some year long marriage.... she said she did not like him sober and she hardly ever drank herself?

Alcoholism can break up marriages big time, but an alcoholic getting sober does not save every marriage.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:53 AM
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Some things that casuse marital problems are not related to drinking, but are simply just how someone is.

The way I separated issues where by asking myself..would this be any different if he was not drinking.
If the answer was yes..it was a problem related to alcoholism
If my answer was no, it was a problem unrelated to alcoholism

I found, ironically, most of my answers were no. I simply didnt like who he was after I found recovery.

For example, my ex is a jokester. Always making jokes..everything is funny to him and he doesnt like being serious. Nothing is important, nothing is a big deal, everything is a joke and everything in life should be fun. If itws not fun, dont do it! Think Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire.

That drove me nuts. Im not like that and I wouldnt be able to handle that whether or not he was drinking. Thats an issue unrelated to alcoholism, but related to who he is and who I am.

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Old 05-03-2007, 12:05 PM
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I had to eventually face the fact that I was wanting my husband to change. I wanted him to be someone he was not. First, that was someone who didn't get drunk every night. Then, when he stopped drinking, I wanted him to be dependable and responsible and open with his feelings, and etc. etc. etc. I don't really think you can separate drinking related issues from non-drinking related issues. The issues in you marriage are still there, even after you remove the alcohol. It comes down to how much each person is willing to give and how much each person is willing to accept. In my case, it turned out that we were still incompatible even after 18 years and sobriety. When I began recovering from codependence and he began recovering from alcoholism, we no longer had that much in common. Sad, but true.

I'm not saying it can't work. There are many examples where it has. I'm just saying that the alcoholic/enabler dance was part of the relationship and if you change that you have to replace it with something else. Hopefully, you can replace the unhealthy connection you had with a healthy one. But, the changes are big and both people have to be willing to work at it. It's kind of like starting the relationship all over again.

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Old 05-03-2007, 12:56 PM
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I used to be passive in our marriage and my husband was very controlling... however, as he grew deeper into his addiction and his health prevented him from doing the things he used to do... I had to take control of every aspect of our lives or everything we had worked for our entire lives would have fallen apart. It is only natural that when your partner in life becomes irresponsible, that we have to assume responsibility for things they can't handle. In any marriage... alcoholic or not ... if one partner is not taking responsibility for important issues .. the other one takes over, I have seen this in almost every marriage - there are simply things that must be done or you will not have a home to live in, utilities, phones, cars to drive, someone to make sure your kids are cared for and get to school safely... or food to eat. Most marriages have a balancing act where one take responsibility for certain things .. the other partner take responsibility for others. In a marriage with an alcoholic, depending on the degree of incapacity...more and more falls on the shoulders of the sober spouse. I had to take over everything eventually, even car and home repairs .. not because I wanted to ..because I had to.

That being said, it is only logical to assume since the divorce rate is 50 percent in this country... many of our marriages would have dissolved regardless of the alcoholism .. but we would love to get a chance to get to know the real person that is sober all the time before we can determine how many of the problems are alcohol related and how many are just personality clashes ... we just never get a chance to know the real person in order to make that determination.
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:41 PM
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What great posts! Keep 'em comin'! Especially the last one by Seeking Wisdom. Thank you! I do feel that way... his increased irresponsibility led to my increased responsibility -- took on too much -- resulted in too much control. And, I know I am controlling to begin with, so this was a pitfall I fell into easily.

I am very thin-skinned and hate feeling like I am some wretched control monger! As he gets better and stays sober, I need to learn to throttle back on that.

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Old 05-03-2007, 02:03 PM
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Just a couple of thoughts on responsibility.

Just because a person lays their responsibilities at my feet, does not mean that I have to pick them up.

And if I do for someone what they can and ought to be doing for themselves (as an adult), then I am taking away their dignity and de-skilling them.

I had to look very closely at why I needed to do that for the person that I was supposed to love.
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:08 PM
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Here's something I learned from some parenting counseling I once received on self-esteem. Maybe it translates some what to this situation if you focus on the "need to control" aspect.

A very young enthusiastic child wants to help w/ dinner and offers to carry her very heavy and awkward plate full of spaghetti to her place at the dinner table, do you?

A) Worry so much that the child will drop the plate because the plate is too big for her to handle and insist that you do it for her?

The cost of that response is the childs self-esteem.

B) Allow her to, realizing that it might very well get dropped and make a big mess.

The WORST CASE cost of that response is you and the child clean it up together, but probably won’t have to. And if you did, it would only take a minute of your time, and your childs self-esteem is spared.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:45 PM
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wow - i have been wondering a lot about what is alcohol related and what is not in my own failing relationship with my A. he was sober for the first 2 years of our relationship so i feel i know him pretty well - sadly almost every issue is related directly or indirectly to his boozing...and it does not appear he is willing or able to give it up, so i had to leave. very hard to let go....
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:11 PM
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Amazing, this sounds exactly like my marriage. I am separated and in the divorce process with my addict husband. He keeps saying that the breakdown of our marriage is not all his fault and that I have control issues.

I used to be passive as well, but because of his addiction...I had to take control of everything (house, children, doctor appt., money, etc.) to keep our family from falling apart. Because of his lack of support, I overcompensated and controlled.

Before I realized his addiction, he and I spent 2 years in marriage counseling, marriage encounter weekends, etc. I found my faults, admitted to them, and have been continuing to work on them. The funny thing is, the faults had nothing to do with the breakdown of our marriage...it was his addiction that caused the fall.

To begin with, his addiction put a wall up between us that kept us from growing in our marriage. It would take him breaking that wall down and going into recovery for a long time before we could even begin to work on our marriage. Unfortunately, he does not want that...so divorce is where we are!
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:29 PM
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Well....in my case he was already a full blown alcoholic when I married him its just that he hid the prior dui's from me even tho he drank a few beers in the evening I just didnt think that was out of line for a construction worker....so I didnt think a thing of it. NOW - looking back over all the years??? I just have to wonder how much or how many of our disagreements were with him having a wet brain and me not even knowing it. Alot of the time he just didnt appear to be drunk...but now after learning all that I have I have to admit that yes...he was intoxicated and I was taking over every aspect of our lives.....including the car maintenance and house repairs too. Even at the end the lawn care. He never did ever show an interest in anything that the kids had going on in their lives at all so this never was an issue that he complained about. Its just so sad that my marriage went this way. I so wish that I knew then what I know now. Because maybe if I had my life would have been different and my kids wouldnt be so badly scarred today. Not to mention myself.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:02 PM
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Having only been maried for 2 years when I was 19 I don't think I can say anything here--gee a husband gets upset about the dinner menu? I am glad I stayed single!LOL
Truly--best of luck to you both-sounds like there is a lot to work out--maybe ist good it's all coming to the surface....
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:00 AM
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I am so thankful for this thread!

Are you all inside my brain?
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:41 PM
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In my situation, AH's personality disorder and alcoholism were intricately woven together. He was diagnosed with something called "co-morbidity." Ultimately, the DSM-IV diagnosis showed that he had something called schizoidal personality disorder. Basically, this disorder manifests itself by isolating oneself, retreating into a fantasy world, and not having any particular meaningful attachments to people. It's not the same as schizophrenia, but the similarity is that people with AH's type of personality disorder don't have much of a personality - kinda like "flat-liners" as I call them.

Thus, the alcohol alleviated the lack of personality and he took on a "personality" when he drank. Other than that, he was pretty much detached and had no clue as to how normal relationships should function. When I realized he'd be out beyond Pluto whether he was drunk or sober, I realized it was time for me to cut my losses.

I think some marital issues would be there whether there was alcoholism as a factor or not. We all have distinct personalities and ways of doing things. A successful marriage to me is about being adept at the art of endless negotiation and the ability to laugh at oneself. Those factors aren't present when one is mired down in addiction. However, there are plenty of folks who don't drink and still don't have a clue how to negotiate differences in a marriage.
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Old 05-05-2007, 05:39 AM
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You need to give time to see if he sobers up and stays sober and you need to work on your issues. In time some of the issues will dissappear and others will stay. The ones that stay are the ones you'll end up workin gon if you reconcile.

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Old 05-08-2007, 06:26 PM
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Angry Anger/Anxiety Provoking Behaviors in Alcoholic Marriages

Hello TroubledNC. I am sorry to read that your life sounds so similar to mine. No one deserves to live the way a spouse of an alcoholic lives. It is so stressful and such a disruptive, sometimes scary and very exhausting way to live. God never meant it to be like this for any of us, including for the alcholics. I just figured out after 12 years that he is an alcoholic b/c he only drank on weekends. And he is NICER when he drinks, so I never associated the argry outbursts, controlling yet irresponsible behavior, with alcholism-and I'm a nurse! I developed an autoimmune disease 2 years ago (Rheumatoid Arthritis) and I truly believe it was triggered by the constant tension and pressure of being in an abusive/alcoholic marriage. Not being allowed to express ANY dissatifaction with his behaviors, the crazy-making, the projecting of his faults onto me, have all worn down my body, mind and spirit, leaving me vulnerable to disease. Since being diagnosed with this very painful and debilitating disease, he has gotten even worse, refusing to do ANY housework, parenting, etc. Finally, a month ago, I made him leave, even though I can't work right now. It was very scary, but the right step for me and my daughter who is 7. We are sort of dating, while I've joined Al-Anon, begun individual counseling and he has gone to one AA meeting, and has been to 3 joint marital counseling sessions with me. He denies he is an alcholic, but the test our counselor gave him puts him into the chronic addiction category.
I think that the alcoholic behavior IS the marital issue. "Anger and anxiety creating" are tools that they use to protect their position and addiction. With mine being sober almost all the time, except one night a week, the thinking is distorted whether they are drinking or not. I think it is called "dry drunk". He went 6 months one time and still behaved badly. So, as far as separating the behaviors; I don't think it's possible. Consider everything I do that impacts my marriage, whether it's overeating, controlling, smoking cigarettes, etc. ARE my marital issues, because they impact my husband and child. I've learned one thing that has helped me tremendously: DO NOT ARGUE WITH HIM. This sounds wimpy, but in reality, it only feeds his disease, and robs me of my dignity, peace and self-respect. I try to walk away, and don't always succeed, but at least now I reign myself in before it gets out of control. I'm working on not being reactionary, the only way to live in an alcoholic marriage. Good luck to you and all you other spouses out there. I hope my anger didn't show through too much; I'm working on releasing that, too
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