Co-dependency
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Co-dependency
Criss-Cross asked on another thread:
I agree - let's focus on us. Is codependency a disease or addiction? Is there a cure for us?
_____________________________
I believe co-dependency is a condition I ended up in, sharing my life with an addict. I personally do not prescribe to the inborn "codie" theory, or that I have a disease like the alcoholic does. I do believe at the end of living with an active alcoholic, I was sicker than he was. I am not now.
As always, my opinion only. Here is an article out of the U.K. I found helpful early on in understanding how I got to where I did and what I could do about it.
((()))
Why Can't I Help?
Alcoholism or drug dependency are very difficult illnesses to understand. A very conservative estimate has suggested that for every alcoholic or addict, there are seven people negatively affected by his or her behaviour. There are few other illnesses that involve so many other people - spouses, partners, children, family members, friends, colleagues and employers.
I have deliberately written this article referring to “Alcoholism” and “he”. This is to save any unnecessary duplication within the text. However, where I refer to alcoholism, you can just as easily substitute drugs, gambling etc - whichever addiction is appropriate. Where I refer to “he”, again, you can substitute “she” as women are just as affected by these problems as men.
---------- o ----------
This information is provided in the express hope that it will help some of those affected by addicted individuals to learn some constructive coping skills, rather than the progressively self defeating and harmful attempts to control the alcoholic that have most likely gone on before.
Alcoholism is a progressive illness, which has also been referred to as a family illness. As the alcoholic becomes trapped within the vicious cycle of drinking and negative consequences, so the family and friends may also become trapped in their own destructive cycle of negative consequences, caused by failed efforts to control the alcoholic’s drinking and behaviour. There is usually a direct link between the irrational behaviour of the alcoholic and the behaviour of the family and friends, who can themselves become quite irrational in their attempts to control him.
I think that, at this stage, it is quite important to outline the usual progression of alcoholism.
As the alcoholic’s behaviour becomes more bizarre, unpredictable and abusive, so he is likely to resort to certain mechanisms to try and withstand the overwhelming negative feelings which are normally associated with his excessive drinking.
Spontaneous defences will be used and these normally fall into the following categories:
Rationalisation The intellectual process of making irrational behaviour seem rational by inventing excuses. You could call this "good reasons for real reasons."
Repression The spontaneous forgetting of shameful and painful memories.
Projection The unconscious unloading on to others of personally unacceptable thoughts, feelings and attitudes about self.
These defences cause the alcoholic to be genuinely and sincerely out of touch with reality. I have known many a partner or friend who have asked the question, “ Don’t they see what they are doing to themselves?” The simple answer at this stage is “No”.
Alcoholics do not see the severity of their situation, as the repression forms gaps in the alcoholic’s memory and cushions them from the real impact of their drinking. They do not live life on life’s terms, they live life on their terms.
Any glimpses of reality that slip through are usually rationalised away by the alcoholic and projection usually allows him to unload his self loathing on to others whilst viewing them as unloving, resentful and the cause of most of the alcoholic’s problems. When combined, these defences form a veil of self deception and denial which keeps the alcoholic from seeing his condition, and effectively blinds him to the consequences that are all too obvious to others.
This process of denial is not only suffered by the alcoholic but can also be experienced by the family, friends, colleagues and partners who may unwittingly adopt unhelpful roles in a vain attempt to try and help the alcoholic. As these individuals absorb the brunt of the alcoholic’s denial or defences, it is not uncommon for them to fall victim to their own defences. It is at this point that unhelpful roles such as the following may be adopted by those closest to the alcoholic.
THE PROTECTOR
Initially the alcoholic’s behaviour will most likely ebb & flow. There will be times where things are calm and other times when it seems utterly chaotic. As the excessive drinking episodes subside, so the spouse or friends may unconsciously assume the role of protector.
This brings with it the responsibility to:
*Make apologies to family, friends etc for anti social behaviour resulting from the drinking.
*Call the employer / colleagues to make excuses for absence from work or lateness.
*Support the alcoholic’s rationalisations about their abnormal drinking or helping them to justify their excuses to themselves or others.
*Adopt some of the alcoholic’s responsibilities at work or in the home because they are not feeling well.
Every time that a partner or friend assumes one of these responsibilities, they actually help the alcoholic further into his illness, rather than out of it. It actually reinforces the alcoholic’s contention that he is coping with life because he does not seem to be suffering negative consequences. As the drinking escalates again however, so does the pain that the alcoholic feels and this is where the projection discussed earlier occurs. The alcoholic needs to unload and usually this is where the projecting of his anger and frustration on to others will usually occur.
See if you recognise any of the following statements:-
*Maybe if you were a better spouse / partner, I would not need to drink so much.
*Those kids would drive any man to drink. Why don’t you control them better?
*Why don’t you tidy yourself up, you look a mess.
*If you worked half as hard as me you would understand why I need a drink to relax.
*Why don’t you shut up and leave me in peace for a while.
As the partner or friends absorb this blame, they feel increasingly guilty and inadequate. They may question whether they are a worthwhile friend or spouse and might actually believe that in some way they are responsible for causing the alcoholic to drink. The worse they feel, the better the spouse or friend they try to become. Thus, in a sense, they are actually trying to become the ideal that the alcoholic is looking for. This is, of course, impossible and further lowers their own self esteem and self image when they are already trying to cope with a difficult situation caused by the alcoholic.
THE CONTROLLER
As the excessive drinking and blaming continues, so does the deterioration within the self esteem of the drinker’s partner or friends. This will commonly result in another form of defensive role called “The Controller”. In this role it is important to try and control every aspect of the alcoholic’s life to ensure that it does not go wrong. Of course, the harder they try to control, the more the alcoholic will resent them for doing so.
The behaviour may manifest itself as some of the following:
*Drinking with them in the hope that they might influence the amount of alcohol that is consumed.
*Cancelling social events that they think might result in excessive drinking.
*Trying to make sure that they buy the drinks or the alcohol supply in the hope that they may control consumption.
*On finding any hidden alcohol, pouring it out to limit consumption.
*Taking over the family finances and trying to use other family members or friends to manipulate the alcoholic to stop drinking.
All these attempts to control almost inevitably fail, so there is an increase in the feelings of inadequacy within the wife and family. The more that the alcoholic escalates still further out of control, the more the family seek to control them further.
THE BLAMER
As the alcoholic has gone through a phase of blaming others for his drinking and behaviour, so the family are progressing through their own stages and may also succumb to the blaming trait.
In a vain and desperate attempt to handle their own now constant and increasing feelings of low self esteem, the family may now project some of their own negative feelings on to others. Feelings such as failure, hurt, fear and anger are projected on to the alcoholic and in this way it seems that the alcoholic is the root of all the problems in the household.
This may be expressed by means of the following:-
Blaming
If you'd just drink like other people I wouldn't be such a nag.
Attacking
If you'd start to use some will power you could control your drinking. I control mine.
Sarcasm : So I suppose you were late at the office again tonight. I didn't know you had a bar in the office.
Threatening: If you don't do something about yourself then I'm leaving.
Silence: Giving the cold shoulder and glaring eye.
As time goes by, the family experience increasingly uncontrollable and inappropriate mood swings. They may suffer periods of deep depression resulting in many lonely hours of tears and misplaced anger. Commonly these frustrations may be directed at one another and through the children. It is common in this stage that some physical abuse between the family members may take place and may also be directed at the alcoholic. The family may feel that they are actually descending into insanity. Yet again, the defences rise in order to try and avoid this situation and the full impact of these feelings.
THE LONER
The defensive attitudes become even more fixed and rigid and the resources available to rebuild the spouse / partner and family’s self esteem become distant and even lost. Other people may begin to notice this pattern of behaviour and may become very uncomfortable with this. The spouse has lost all creativity and sense of purpose thus resorting to isolation and an ever deeper and more defensive pattern of behaviour. This may lead to statements like:
The Supermother: "I'm the only thing keeping this family together."; "You really should....."
Ms Self Righteous: "Why can't you be more like.....?; "I told you so...."
The Martyr: "What I put up with for the children's sake!"; "The life I could have had if only...! ; "There is no point, what is meant to be is meant to be."
This growing hostility and increasing self-pity will naturally alienate family and friends. Isolation is the natural consequence of these actions, whether it might be the family withdrawing from the spouse / partner, or her withdrawing from activities that require social interaction. Now the wife has fully adopted the role of the loner.
THE ENABLER
Once this stage is reached, the spouse / partner’s defences are so highly developed and sensitive, that she cannot see her reactions are actually making her problems worse. What she does not realise is that as she increasingly assumes the roles of the Protector, Controller, Blamer and Loner, she will almost certainly be assuming more and more responsibility for the alcoholic. The behaviour of assuming responsibility for his actions transforms the wife in to a new role, that of the Enabler.
This means that her behaviour actually helps the alcoholic to avoid the harmful consequences of his excessive and abnormal drinking. Her by now compulsive, and increasingly more desperate, attempts to manipulate and control his drinking actually help to convince the alcoholic that she is responsible for his drinking and therefore the relationship between them deteriorates still further. The result of this is that the levels of anger and feelings of hurt and alienation continue to grow, leaving the wife and family still further isolated.
THE CO-DEPENDENT
By this stage the Enabler is likely to move towards the last role, which is that of the Co-dependent. Having become so defensive during her attempt to cope with the excessive drinking, and her by now ingrained and sincere belief that the only problem in the house is the drinking, this simply indicates how far removed from reality the spouse / partner has become. She is now totally unaware of the damage her own defensive attitudes are doing and the part they play in keeping her locked in to a life filled with rage, self pity, confusion and loneliness. She cannot understand why all her best arguments and efforts have been unsuccessful.
Co-dependency is an illness in its own right and can produce emotional and psychological damage which is equal to, and often more severe than, that of the alcoholic. The sad fact is that, unless the wife gets help for her own compulsive behaviour, she will continue to deteriorate emotionally and psychologically whilst continuing to enable the alcoholic’s drinking and addictive behaviour. She will have become as addicted to controlling the alcoholic as the alcoholic is dependent on his alcohol. The more she does for the alcoholic, the more she hides his true reality from him, and the more she loses her own identity.
CONCLUSION
By identifying with the symptoms contained within this self-help article, a way out may begin to emerge. If the spouse / partner and family can understand the nature of the alcoholic’s illness, then they can stop blaming themselves for it. If they can identify their own destructive behaviour and attitudes, they might be able to focus upon changing their own reactions rather than trying to change the alcoholic’s actions. Only when you stop trying to control the alcoholic and his behaviour will your self inflicted pain begin to subside.
It is of the utmost importance that you remember that addiction is an illness.
You did not cause it, you can’t control it and you can’t cure it.
That lies within the hands of the alcoholic and the professionals
I agree - let's focus on us. Is codependency a disease or addiction? Is there a cure for us?
_____________________________
I believe co-dependency is a condition I ended up in, sharing my life with an addict. I personally do not prescribe to the inborn "codie" theory, or that I have a disease like the alcoholic does. I do believe at the end of living with an active alcoholic, I was sicker than he was. I am not now.
As always, my opinion only. Here is an article out of the U.K. I found helpful early on in understanding how I got to where I did and what I could do about it.
((()))
Why Can't I Help?
Alcoholism or drug dependency are very difficult illnesses to understand. A very conservative estimate has suggested that for every alcoholic or addict, there are seven people negatively affected by his or her behaviour. There are few other illnesses that involve so many other people - spouses, partners, children, family members, friends, colleagues and employers.
I have deliberately written this article referring to “Alcoholism” and “he”. This is to save any unnecessary duplication within the text. However, where I refer to alcoholism, you can just as easily substitute drugs, gambling etc - whichever addiction is appropriate. Where I refer to “he”, again, you can substitute “she” as women are just as affected by these problems as men.
---------- o ----------
This information is provided in the express hope that it will help some of those affected by addicted individuals to learn some constructive coping skills, rather than the progressively self defeating and harmful attempts to control the alcoholic that have most likely gone on before.
Alcoholism is a progressive illness, which has also been referred to as a family illness. As the alcoholic becomes trapped within the vicious cycle of drinking and negative consequences, so the family and friends may also become trapped in their own destructive cycle of negative consequences, caused by failed efforts to control the alcoholic’s drinking and behaviour. There is usually a direct link between the irrational behaviour of the alcoholic and the behaviour of the family and friends, who can themselves become quite irrational in their attempts to control him.
I think that, at this stage, it is quite important to outline the usual progression of alcoholism.
As the alcoholic’s behaviour becomes more bizarre, unpredictable and abusive, so he is likely to resort to certain mechanisms to try and withstand the overwhelming negative feelings which are normally associated with his excessive drinking.
Spontaneous defences will be used and these normally fall into the following categories:
Rationalisation The intellectual process of making irrational behaviour seem rational by inventing excuses. You could call this "good reasons for real reasons."
Repression The spontaneous forgetting of shameful and painful memories.
Projection The unconscious unloading on to others of personally unacceptable thoughts, feelings and attitudes about self.
These defences cause the alcoholic to be genuinely and sincerely out of touch with reality. I have known many a partner or friend who have asked the question, “ Don’t they see what they are doing to themselves?” The simple answer at this stage is “No”.
Alcoholics do not see the severity of their situation, as the repression forms gaps in the alcoholic’s memory and cushions them from the real impact of their drinking. They do not live life on life’s terms, they live life on their terms.
Any glimpses of reality that slip through are usually rationalised away by the alcoholic and projection usually allows him to unload his self loathing on to others whilst viewing them as unloving, resentful and the cause of most of the alcoholic’s problems. When combined, these defences form a veil of self deception and denial which keeps the alcoholic from seeing his condition, and effectively blinds him to the consequences that are all too obvious to others.
This process of denial is not only suffered by the alcoholic but can also be experienced by the family, friends, colleagues and partners who may unwittingly adopt unhelpful roles in a vain attempt to try and help the alcoholic. As these individuals absorb the brunt of the alcoholic’s denial or defences, it is not uncommon for them to fall victim to their own defences. It is at this point that unhelpful roles such as the following may be adopted by those closest to the alcoholic.
THE PROTECTOR
Initially the alcoholic’s behaviour will most likely ebb & flow. There will be times where things are calm and other times when it seems utterly chaotic. As the excessive drinking episodes subside, so the spouse or friends may unconsciously assume the role of protector.
This brings with it the responsibility to:
*Make apologies to family, friends etc for anti social behaviour resulting from the drinking.
*Call the employer / colleagues to make excuses for absence from work or lateness.
*Support the alcoholic’s rationalisations about their abnormal drinking or helping them to justify their excuses to themselves or others.
*Adopt some of the alcoholic’s responsibilities at work or in the home because they are not feeling well.
Every time that a partner or friend assumes one of these responsibilities, they actually help the alcoholic further into his illness, rather than out of it. It actually reinforces the alcoholic’s contention that he is coping with life because he does not seem to be suffering negative consequences. As the drinking escalates again however, so does the pain that the alcoholic feels and this is where the projection discussed earlier occurs. The alcoholic needs to unload and usually this is where the projecting of his anger and frustration on to others will usually occur.
See if you recognise any of the following statements:-
*Maybe if you were a better spouse / partner, I would not need to drink so much.
*Those kids would drive any man to drink. Why don’t you control them better?
*Why don’t you tidy yourself up, you look a mess.
*If you worked half as hard as me you would understand why I need a drink to relax.
*Why don’t you shut up and leave me in peace for a while.
As the partner or friends absorb this blame, they feel increasingly guilty and inadequate. They may question whether they are a worthwhile friend or spouse and might actually believe that in some way they are responsible for causing the alcoholic to drink. The worse they feel, the better the spouse or friend they try to become. Thus, in a sense, they are actually trying to become the ideal that the alcoholic is looking for. This is, of course, impossible and further lowers their own self esteem and self image when they are already trying to cope with a difficult situation caused by the alcoholic.
THE CONTROLLER
As the excessive drinking and blaming continues, so does the deterioration within the self esteem of the drinker’s partner or friends. This will commonly result in another form of defensive role called “The Controller”. In this role it is important to try and control every aspect of the alcoholic’s life to ensure that it does not go wrong. Of course, the harder they try to control, the more the alcoholic will resent them for doing so.
The behaviour may manifest itself as some of the following:
*Drinking with them in the hope that they might influence the amount of alcohol that is consumed.
*Cancelling social events that they think might result in excessive drinking.
*Trying to make sure that they buy the drinks or the alcohol supply in the hope that they may control consumption.
*On finding any hidden alcohol, pouring it out to limit consumption.
*Taking over the family finances and trying to use other family members or friends to manipulate the alcoholic to stop drinking.
All these attempts to control almost inevitably fail, so there is an increase in the feelings of inadequacy within the wife and family. The more that the alcoholic escalates still further out of control, the more the family seek to control them further.
THE BLAMER
As the alcoholic has gone through a phase of blaming others for his drinking and behaviour, so the family are progressing through their own stages and may also succumb to the blaming trait.
In a vain and desperate attempt to handle their own now constant and increasing feelings of low self esteem, the family may now project some of their own negative feelings on to others. Feelings such as failure, hurt, fear and anger are projected on to the alcoholic and in this way it seems that the alcoholic is the root of all the problems in the household.
This may be expressed by means of the following:-
Blaming
If you'd just drink like other people I wouldn't be such a nag.
Attacking
If you'd start to use some will power you could control your drinking. I control mine.
Sarcasm : So I suppose you were late at the office again tonight. I didn't know you had a bar in the office.
Threatening: If you don't do something about yourself then I'm leaving.
Silence: Giving the cold shoulder and glaring eye.
As time goes by, the family experience increasingly uncontrollable and inappropriate mood swings. They may suffer periods of deep depression resulting in many lonely hours of tears and misplaced anger. Commonly these frustrations may be directed at one another and through the children. It is common in this stage that some physical abuse between the family members may take place and may also be directed at the alcoholic. The family may feel that they are actually descending into insanity. Yet again, the defences rise in order to try and avoid this situation and the full impact of these feelings.
THE LONER
The defensive attitudes become even more fixed and rigid and the resources available to rebuild the spouse / partner and family’s self esteem become distant and even lost. Other people may begin to notice this pattern of behaviour and may become very uncomfortable with this. The spouse has lost all creativity and sense of purpose thus resorting to isolation and an ever deeper and more defensive pattern of behaviour. This may lead to statements like:
The Supermother: "I'm the only thing keeping this family together."; "You really should....."
Ms Self Righteous: "Why can't you be more like.....?; "I told you so...."
The Martyr: "What I put up with for the children's sake!"; "The life I could have had if only...! ; "There is no point, what is meant to be is meant to be."
This growing hostility and increasing self-pity will naturally alienate family and friends. Isolation is the natural consequence of these actions, whether it might be the family withdrawing from the spouse / partner, or her withdrawing from activities that require social interaction. Now the wife has fully adopted the role of the loner.
THE ENABLER
Once this stage is reached, the spouse / partner’s defences are so highly developed and sensitive, that she cannot see her reactions are actually making her problems worse. What she does not realise is that as she increasingly assumes the roles of the Protector, Controller, Blamer and Loner, she will almost certainly be assuming more and more responsibility for the alcoholic. The behaviour of assuming responsibility for his actions transforms the wife in to a new role, that of the Enabler.
This means that her behaviour actually helps the alcoholic to avoid the harmful consequences of his excessive and abnormal drinking. Her by now compulsive, and increasingly more desperate, attempts to manipulate and control his drinking actually help to convince the alcoholic that she is responsible for his drinking and therefore the relationship between them deteriorates still further. The result of this is that the levels of anger and feelings of hurt and alienation continue to grow, leaving the wife and family still further isolated.
THE CO-DEPENDENT
By this stage the Enabler is likely to move towards the last role, which is that of the Co-dependent. Having become so defensive during her attempt to cope with the excessive drinking, and her by now ingrained and sincere belief that the only problem in the house is the drinking, this simply indicates how far removed from reality the spouse / partner has become. She is now totally unaware of the damage her own defensive attitudes are doing and the part they play in keeping her locked in to a life filled with rage, self pity, confusion and loneliness. She cannot understand why all her best arguments and efforts have been unsuccessful.
Co-dependency is an illness in its own right and can produce emotional and psychological damage which is equal to, and often more severe than, that of the alcoholic. The sad fact is that, unless the wife gets help for her own compulsive behaviour, she will continue to deteriorate emotionally and psychologically whilst continuing to enable the alcoholic’s drinking and addictive behaviour. She will have become as addicted to controlling the alcoholic as the alcoholic is dependent on his alcohol. The more she does for the alcoholic, the more she hides his true reality from him, and the more she loses her own identity.
CONCLUSION
By identifying with the symptoms contained within this self-help article, a way out may begin to emerge. If the spouse / partner and family can understand the nature of the alcoholic’s illness, then they can stop blaming themselves for it. If they can identify their own destructive behaviour and attitudes, they might be able to focus upon changing their own reactions rather than trying to change the alcoholic’s actions. Only when you stop trying to control the alcoholic and his behaviour will your self inflicted pain begin to subside.
It is of the utmost importance that you remember that addiction is an illness.
You did not cause it, you can’t control it and you can’t cure it.
That lies within the hands of the alcoholic and the professionals
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: HK
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by denny57 
Criss-Cross asked on another thread:
I agree - let's focus on us. Is codependency a disease or addiction? Is there a cure for us?
I agree - let's focus on us. Is codependency a disease or addiction? Is there a cure for us?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
That's a good article. What is not included in this article is that many of those characteristics occur in people who are not affected directly by an alcoholic. I see it as learned behaviors that may be passed through the family. I am not blaming the family, just stating that people respond to 'life' in very similar ways. I had a very controlling mother and our family showed all the signs of having a member with this disease. I believe we learn from our experiences and use the same coping mechanisms with or without an addiction present.
I also wonder how many people are 'out there' who live with what many of us have and 'never' become codependent. Maybe codependency starts out as a natural response to a crisis, but gradually becomes destructive because of the nature of the disease of alcoholism, our human faults and lack of knowledge.
The end result is the same that without treatment/recovery the codependent is a desperately sick person. It's kind of like the eternal question about the chicken and the egg...which came first? I did not cause my loved one to have this disease but I will react to it in ways I have been conditioned to. I do what I know, until I know better. I have to change to avoid the oncoming trainwreck.
jmho
Thanks denny for a great thread.
Co-dependency is an illness in its own right and can produce emotional and psychological damage which is equal to, and often more severe than, that of the alcoholic. The sad fact is that, unless the wife gets help for her own compulsive behaviour, she will continue to deteriorate emotionally and psychologically whilst continuing to enable the alcoholic’s drinking and addictive behaviour. She will have become as addicted to controlling the alcoholic as the alcoholic is dependent on his alcohol. The more she does for the alcoholic, the more she hides his true reality from him, and the more she loses her own identity
I also wonder how many people are 'out there' who live with what many of us have and 'never' become codependent. Maybe codependency starts out as a natural response to a crisis, but gradually becomes destructive because of the nature of the disease of alcoholism, our human faults and lack of knowledge.
The end result is the same that without treatment/recovery the codependent is a desperately sick person. It's kind of like the eternal question about the chicken and the egg...which came first? I did not cause my loved one to have this disease but I will react to it in ways I have been conditioned to. I do what I know, until I know better. I have to change to avoid the oncoming trainwreck.
jmho
Thanks denny for a great thread.
Last edited by best; 04-29-2007 at 09:47 AM.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 351
Some interesting observations...
I believe I have read that 8 percent of the population suffer from alcohol addiction .... so out of the 300,000,000 people in this country...24,000,000 are alcoholic and if another 7 people are affected by it, then involves another 168,000,000 people. That means well over half our population are affected. The enormous impact from alcohol addiction alone in incomprehensible .. and has a profound and devastating impact both financially and socially that is so huge it is almost beyond our ability to grasp and absorb. These numbers don't include other addictions ..frightening. Addiction would appear to be the single most destructive force within our country.
I believe the biggest problem of those closely connected (co-dependents?) to an alcoholic face is a lack of knowledge and information as to the nature of alcoholic addiction. The majority of the country doesn't begin to understand alcoholic addiction and it true impact on those around it - I have personally encountered this over and over again... yet the majority of people in this country have been affected by this devasting condition. We are repeatedly and relentlessly exposed to more absurd details about celebrity's lives that we ever are about addiction. We like, most everyone else on this planet, didn't have the knowledge we needed to effectively respond when we were faced with alcoholism in our families ... something that usually creeps up on us insidiously before it declares itself absolutely. Once we realize the addiction is so overwhelming powerful, extremely resistant to change, highly prone to relapse, that alcohol becomes the primary focal point of alcoholic's existance...and everyone and everything becomes secondary to their desire to drink.... we become enlightened and realize we can stop trying to reason and rationalize with someone consumed by something so powerful. We that co-exist with an alcoholic learn that history has proven, only the alcoholic can make the actual decision to change. We learn we must let them know that we care about them and encourage them to turn their lives around... then we must let to and step aside, and try to accept the reality we don't have control over something so powerful .. and we can only control how best we live our own lives separately by detaching... we learn we must let the alcoholic decide for themselves what future path their lives will take ... and not letting our lives be destroyed in the process.
Once those of us that co-exist with the alcoholic educate ourselves about reality of alcohol addiction, we make far wiser and better choices ... and that is exactly what this forum does so wonderfully... it tells the true and brutal reality of what this disease is all about, from people that have actually lived with it ... and teaches us how to effectively live our lives from that point forward. We shouldn't beat ourselves up over it, we are already struggling to regain our self worth and dignity ... the biggest problem anyone faces in co-existing with an alcoholic ... is the lack of knowledge on a very complex and perplexing condition. With knowledge comes power ... the power to change the things we can ... and the wisdom to know the difference.
I believe I have read that 8 percent of the population suffer from alcohol addiction .... so out of the 300,000,000 people in this country...24,000,000 are alcoholic and if another 7 people are affected by it, then involves another 168,000,000 people. That means well over half our population are affected. The enormous impact from alcohol addiction alone in incomprehensible .. and has a profound and devastating impact both financially and socially that is so huge it is almost beyond our ability to grasp and absorb. These numbers don't include other addictions ..frightening. Addiction would appear to be the single most destructive force within our country.
I believe the biggest problem of those closely connected (co-dependents?) to an alcoholic face is a lack of knowledge and information as to the nature of alcoholic addiction. The majority of the country doesn't begin to understand alcoholic addiction and it true impact on those around it - I have personally encountered this over and over again... yet the majority of people in this country have been affected by this devasting condition. We are repeatedly and relentlessly exposed to more absurd details about celebrity's lives that we ever are about addiction. We like, most everyone else on this planet, didn't have the knowledge we needed to effectively respond when we were faced with alcoholism in our families ... something that usually creeps up on us insidiously before it declares itself absolutely. Once we realize the addiction is so overwhelming powerful, extremely resistant to change, highly prone to relapse, that alcohol becomes the primary focal point of alcoholic's existance...and everyone and everything becomes secondary to their desire to drink.... we become enlightened and realize we can stop trying to reason and rationalize with someone consumed by something so powerful. We that co-exist with an alcoholic learn that history has proven, only the alcoholic can make the actual decision to change. We learn we must let them know that we care about them and encourage them to turn their lives around... then we must let to and step aside, and try to accept the reality we don't have control over something so powerful .. and we can only control how best we live our own lives separately by detaching... we learn we must let the alcoholic decide for themselves what future path their lives will take ... and not letting our lives be destroyed in the process.
Once those of us that co-exist with the alcoholic educate ourselves about reality of alcohol addiction, we make far wiser and better choices ... and that is exactly what this forum does so wonderfully... it tells the true and brutal reality of what this disease is all about, from people that have actually lived with it ... and teaches us how to effectively live our lives from that point forward. We shouldn't beat ourselves up over it, we are already struggling to regain our self worth and dignity ... the biggest problem anyone faces in co-existing with an alcoholic ... is the lack of knowledge on a very complex and perplexing condition. With knowledge comes power ... the power to change the things we can ... and the wisdom to know the difference.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Backwoods, PA
Posts: 223
Great thread!
I believe that we come into this world as blank slates. I studied this theory in one of my classes. Each person that we meet writes on our slate. Our parents are the first and most significant of our authors. My lack of a father and my addicted mother set me up to be codependent. My father was an alcoholic and he abandoned us. My mother was addicted to my father and she ended up abandoning us...emotionally. My grandparents raised us. I know that I am codependent because I watched all the codies and alcoholics around me while I was growing up. What is normal? I don't know. I'm sure that there are families out there somewhere who have not been affected by addictions. I don't know where they are though.
Good thread!
I believe that we come into this world as blank slates. I studied this theory in one of my classes. Each person that we meet writes on our slate. Our parents are the first and most significant of our authors. My lack of a father and my addicted mother set me up to be codependent. My father was an alcoholic and he abandoned us. My mother was addicted to my father and she ended up abandoning us...emotionally. My grandparents raised us. I know that I am codependent because I watched all the codies and alcoholics around me while I was growing up. What is normal? I don't know. I'm sure that there are families out there somewhere who have not been affected by addictions. I don't know where they are though.
Good thread!
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Something interesting I heard clothes shopping over the weekend. I was in the dressing room and heard 2 women speaking to each other from another dressing room.
Woman 1 says: you know he is drunk all the time, hides it from me, is a complete ass enbarassing me in public, calls me names and spends grocery money on beer.
Thats bullsh*t. Im not putting up with it anymore. Im done.
Woman 2 says: OMG, how long has this been going on?
Woman 1 says: Oh, he just started last month, but Im no about to stick around and take anymore of it..how crazy would that be!
I was just standing there thinking...she is NOT codependent. Everything made perfect sense to her.
Woman 1 says: you know he is drunk all the time, hides it from me, is a complete ass enbarassing me in public, calls me names and spends grocery money on beer.
Thats bullsh*t. Im not putting up with it anymore. Im done.
Woman 2 says: OMG, how long has this been going on?
Woman 1 says: Oh, he just started last month, but Im no about to stick around and take anymore of it..how crazy would that be!
I was just standing there thinking...she is NOT codependent. Everything made perfect sense to her.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
I don't really think co-dependency is a disease, I just think it is a set of learned behaviours, beliefs, attitudes and coping mechanisms.
Ones that I learnt early on in my childhood (and there were no addiction problems in my family, and no abuse, but there was a lot of unhappiness and chaos and anger and uncertainty and blame). I know I learned how to cope with the world by the example of my parents, and in ways that protected me during my childhood. I don't know how to be any other way. I don't think I'm sick, I think I am unskilled in how to lead a happy life.
This is only my opinion, and it may all be semantics, "sick" or "disease" makes me feel broken, defective or inferior - like I say just my reaction to words probably.
Viewing it this way helps me, - skills can be learned, its darn hard, like taking an exam in a language I've no knowledge on, but to me it feels better than "medicalising" my life.
JMO.
Ones that I learnt early on in my childhood (and there were no addiction problems in my family, and no abuse, but there was a lot of unhappiness and chaos and anger and uncertainty and blame). I know I learned how to cope with the world by the example of my parents, and in ways that protected me during my childhood. I don't know how to be any other way. I don't think I'm sick, I think I am unskilled in how to lead a happy life.
This is only my opinion, and it may all be semantics, "sick" or "disease" makes me feel broken, defective or inferior - like I say just my reaction to words probably.
Viewing it this way helps me, - skills can be learned, its darn hard, like taking an exam in a language I've no knowledge on, but to me it feels better than "medicalising" my life.
JMO.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Wow that was a great article, almost sounds like my wife wrote it with one exception, it left out how my wife left me with no choice but to face my drinking all by myself or quit drinking.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 30
Interesting article! And defines me to a T. (sigh) You know I always thought my compassion and concern for others was a good thing - I thought it was my best trait. Now I'm finding out otherwise. Maybe I should just keep to babying my pets. Less chance of doing damage and they suck up the love like a sponge.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
I wonder a bit about some parts of this... if shyness is inherited (and from what I've read there is a consensus that it is), then why not other personality traits?
My dad was a codependent alcoholic, my mom was just a "regular" alcoholic. I seem to have inherited many of my dad's attributes... including the tendency to not confront, to go along to get along and a fearfulness.
I see these same traits in one of my children, and in a great niece.... all at a very young age (at around 3 years of age).
It could be we were all subjected to similar events (though my assessment of what I know about each says... "not the same"), but it seems AS likely that we each inherited a similar tendency.
Does this make it a disease? I don't know... but I do know I have found some relief for this by attending Alanon.
((hugs))
My dad was a codependent alcoholic, my mom was just a "regular" alcoholic. I seem to have inherited many of my dad's attributes... including the tendency to not confront, to go along to get along and a fearfulness.
I see these same traits in one of my children, and in a great niece.... all at a very young age (at around 3 years of age).
It could be we were all subjected to similar events (though my assessment of what I know about each says... "not the same"), but it seems AS likely that we each inherited a similar tendency.
Does this make it a disease? I don't know... but I do know I have found some relief for this by attending Alanon.
((hugs))
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Tess L
You know I always thought my compassion and concern for others was a good thing - I thought it was my best trait.
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