Hangin' In

Daughter moved out yesterday because she just can't live here anymore. She used a flimsy excuse to move out, but we knew it was coming. Boy did I hear quacking. :-(

She picked up her 6 month chip on Friday but my gut and her behavior tells me she isn't being honest with herself. (Oh, I do remember someone's response to a post I made early in my recovery..."How will I know is she's using?" They said, "It will come out sooner or later." How smart ya'll are! );

So here's the gray area. On certain issues my husband and I don't really know what is enabling and what is supporting. We know she chose to move out, so we are saying "Ok, then you're on your own." But we bought the car. Now if we keep it, the how does she go apply for jobs and work? I know we don't give her money. She has two medications she needs. I feel we need to continue with those.

She left with no money, no plan and no place to stay. When she left, I did cry some, but I was calm, rational and knew there was no getting into any debate about it. I hugged her, told her I loved her. The last thing I said when I looked in her eye was "be honest." Funny thing is she sang a solo in our church yesterday a.m. before she left. Title of the song? "I Am Blessed." And then she walked away from our support and everything we provide for her. She finished singing, turned around and looked at me (in the choir), and I mouthed to her that I love her. We have had a happy, loving home. She admits she loves us, and she has thanked us for going to Al Anon. She KNOWS we love her. I KNOW she loves us. But she just can't wait on anything. Couldn't wait to get a rational plan to move out. We were going to work with her on that, but nope....she had to go.

I'm praying and trying so very hard to remember every word I've read here and heard at my Al Anon meetings. If anyone has anything else they can tell me that would help, I sure would appreciate it. We're really hurting right now. Thank all of you for being here and supporting me. I'm trying to remember "I am powerless, I am powerless."

Love,

Hangin' In

osier59

(((((((((((hangin))))))))))))))))

Wow. what a big weekend! Perhaps it will help you to remember that she has some life lessons to learn and they aren't from you.
I would probably pay for the car stuff, meds etc but not provide any cash.... without a plan or a goal I imagine she'lll be back in touch with you soon to try to get help or to iron things out. As my 20 yr old son will tell you, living on your own is a lot of work and not nearly as fun as it sounds.

I am in a similar situation as he dropped out of school and moved home with his dad. I have provided the car but dont give any $$$ and have recently quit paying his car insurance. If he's not going to attend school he can learn about working 40 hrs a week and trying to make ends meet.

You'll probably get lots better answers and advice from the others. Just know we are here for you... and remember that we HURT our kids when we do for them what they are able to do for themselves.

HUGS
O59

Live

Hangin In"


Big big hugs. You have really been through the mill lately. I KNOW how ardently you love her and how passionately you want her well being. And the real scares that are so recent.

It hurts so bad.

We are both loving, close, involved mothers. It killed me when Dayna and I got in that big argument awhile back.

I did leave her with the consequences. And it didn't take long before she realized that she was as rooted as I in that love, care, closeness, and involvement.
I suggest that what you have with your daughter is so strong that it will speak for itself to her.

In the waiting time, it just hurts.

The difference between enabling and the support of unconditional love, and this is just my opinion, would be as you and others have said. She really does need the car and she really does need her meds.
As someone who has to be on meds, I can say that I feel that anyone who cares about me will not let me go without them if I am unable to get them myself.....because I CANNOT be well without them.

It gets really gray areas beyond that and has to be determined individually.... and re-examined and re-evaluated constanltly as circumstances are always in flux. Nothing ever stays the same.

There is no answer for good and for all.

I know you already know ALL this, I just hope I can affirm you a bit here.

Love,
live

smoke gets in my eyes

Allow me to take one more pot shot at the enabling boogeyman.

Providing your daughter with a means of transportation won't make her use drugs. Taking it away won't keep her away from them. What you do for her, do because and when it makes you feel right in yourself. If it's a burden financially it's not a good idea FOR YOU. If later on you feel you made a wrong decision, it's okay to redecide.

Letting her stay in your home was a kind and generous thing. I'm glad you don't feel you owe providing her with a home away from yours. If she doesn't want to compromise her lifestyle to fit in with your homelife, that's her row to hoe. She has to make the decisions about what's harder to deal with. She may redecide, too.

Hugs,
Smoke

Rose56

((((((((((Hangin)))))))))
I agree with the others about the car and the meds and the cash. Also that other things will have to be negotiated along the way. When I am feeling fearful I want tend to be a bit black and white (understatement here). Trust that you will be able to work through the requests and the decisions on whether or not to fulfill them. We can help you here, step by step.

On feeling the pain, I know how this deep level of pain feels. I have been there, not with my daughter but I have been there. What helps me through it is to share here and with other trusted friends. That truely lessens the pain somewhat. It also helps to distract myself by going shopping, to a movie, for ice cream. Anything that I enjoy doing may give me a few minutes releif from the pain. The other thing I do is give into it, just cry my eyes out. Please trust that this pain will lessen.

Is it possible to add a meeting or two into your week? I am praying for you and your daughter.

Hangin' In

Thank you all for your responses.

Osier, how right you were. Oh yeah, she was back in contact today, pleading her case for a deposit for an apartment in the town where she did attend school, where she will work (as soon as she beats the streets and finds a job) and where she attends AA meetings. It's about 45 miles from us.

She had been to her IOP treatment center and spoke with the doctor there. He told her the moving out and working for a year would be good. She then said, "Can I ask a favor? Could you and daddy just help me with the deposit for an apt? I just need the deposit." I said "Well, they usually want the 1st month's rent too, and there are deposits for utilities." She could tell I wasn't liking the idea. She then started pleading her case, saying she has been working very hard on her recovery and couldn't we just do this for her. Well, I think she HAD been working her recovery very hard, but lately....uh, nope she hasn't.

She did say, after asking me for the deposit $, that the doctor at the treament center said he'd try to help if we couldn't. Hmmmmmmm, I just wonder about that. Keep in mind she works part time at the treatment center, so maybe he's thinking he could use her paycheck as payback if he loaned her money. But this man is a 36 years sober recovering A. Wouldn't you think he would know by now not to loan $$$ to an struggling A? Me thinks so. I think my daughter heard what she wanted to hear, which is VERY often the case when we talk.

She is bent and determined to stay 'moved out'. I know if we suggest she move back home, get a job, and earn enough money to pay the deposit and rent, she will say absolutely not. And that is where my old thinking, (absent of my good Al Anon training), kicks in and worries just where will she be staying. With the friends that she is gravitating to now? The drinking and drugging ones? Oh for the days when she was working a good program, or even better, when she was in treatment! At least I knew she was 'getting it' then. Now...ppppppffffffffftttttttt, I know nothing.

And Live, we've got that mother/daughter relationship thing going for us or against us. I'm not sure which one it is, but I know you understand. Thanks for your words of encouragement and compassion.

Smokes, this girl can get to me. She is so bull headed that I think she is going to have to be the kind to learn it on her own. I do think moving out is the best for her. And we do live in small town and she has no friends here. She is miserable at home because all her AA and college friends (even if I don't like them) are over in the other town. But just as you said about the car, same goes for apt? Providing deposit or not, she will still do what she's going to do. It's like I said before...I worry where she will end up staying. Set me straight on this? (I think I'm fixin to get 100 lashes with a wet noodle!)

And Rose, thanks for your sweet words. And, honey, if I could make another Al Anon meeting I would. But I already am waiting at the door every time the Al Anon doors are open! THANK YOU, LORD, for Al Anon!

smoke gets in my eyes

Hmmm... I dunno if I'd put the apartment in the same light as the car.

Think of it this way. Say her car is a lil' fuel efficient thing like a KIA. Considering you don't owe anybody a car to drive, it's just plain terrific of you to have provided that. But she grouses and kvetches because it's teal instead of magenta and besides she really wanted a Porsche. Well... she'll show you. She just won't drive it. She'll just WALK everywhere until you see that you need to buy her a Magenta Porsche.

You provided her with housing. Your home. That was generous considering you don't owe another adult housing. ANY other adult... not even your child.

If she wants a Porsche... she can bloody well drive her little KIA to a JOB until she has enough money of her own to buy it. If she wants her own apartment, she can also drive her little KIA to a job until she has saved up enough money to have it. Two jobs would make it faster. And trust me... the difficulties of your housing situation become barely noticeable if you're at work all the time.

No. I really don't think making a deposit on an apartment will be the difference in whether she uses drugs or not. You're not in control of that. And if you have more money than you know what to do with and would do this for her if she was a golden child instead of a pain, nobody can say thee nay. But somewhere along the line, my friend, you have to start thinking of yourself. Making sacrifices and concessions to make things be okay with her is useless. She is the only one who can make things be okay with her. If you like the idea of providing basic needs for this young adult... remember you have done that already. Why set yourself up to be more resentful of her actions? Picture yourself 6 months down the road. Imagine the worst... it could happen. You have footed the bill for this entire apartment the whole way and she still jobless, the car needs repair and every time you see her she has to keep telling Buzz Lightyear to be quiet so she can focus her dialated pupils on your strangely familiar face. Okay... feel yourself gettin' mad? Hear yourself thinkin' "Look at all I've done for you?" If you do... maybe you need to decide what your boundaries should be so that doesn't happen.

Hugs,
Smoke

Hangin' In

Smokes, I'm laffing!!!!!!!!!

You'll like this. When I saw you had replied to my thread, I said to myself, "OH NO! Smokes is fixin' to let me have it!"

And I needed it. Thanks my dear recovering friend. Now do you think you could come live with me and whisper all this good stuff in my ear EVERY day while standing behind me, pushing me to do what's right?.....

Live

LMAO

Hangin'...where do you think she got that stubborn streak from? I know where mine got hers

Well, you know if she were working her program and being rational she wouldn't have just up and moved without a plan.
Doesn't sound like her moving was a thought out step process it was an impulsive leap. I wouldn't want to encourage that.

She CAN sleep in her car In between jobs.

Or make a roomie arrangement with one of those AA friends??

Being on your own is a healthy dose of being on your own!!!!

I am getting ready to sort of shut my daughter down too.

I did get leap and leave but it was a crisis situation. And it is all for the best. My being there stabilized their situation, and crippled them from growing up and being able to really see their situation and be realistic and responsible about it.
And I can tell ya now, it is going to get worse before it gets better.
and she is really going to get mad at me..when I say, I can't let this continue to involve and affect me, because I have my own plans that I must protect.

Sigh.

Pass the aspirin and cold pack.
This too shall pass.

Rose56

Smoke,
Thanks for your response, it really teaches me a lot about boundaries. I feel that way all the time "Look at all I have done for you!". I guess that means that my boundaries are weak. Even though I gave up doing his laundry, I still fold it and put it away if it is bothering me. I need some major work here. Stop piling on the resentments - take care of yourself now. Some of these concepts are so simple that you skim right over them. Take care of yourself, sure, and now on to the important stuff. But, wait, if you take care of yourself when you make decisions, then some of the stuff gets better and you make better decisions. Hummm. My new mantra: : What is best for me in this situation? What do I want?".

Hangin' my prayers are still with you today as you move through this trying time. You can do it! We all can!

Jewel

Hangin-in,

Just read your post and my heart and love goes out to you, God bless you and your daughter, it sounds like it may be something she needs to do for herself, but she knows you are there for her and from reading your post, sounds like you and your daughter have a very strong bond.

My daughter is a recovering A, and my son is still using, and I have had to work hard on not enabling, I dont give money, but help with the car, food and love to me is just about being a mum.

After all I am their mum and it is natural to want to help your kids when they are in trouble and to be happy for them when things are going good.

My sponsor said to me, Julie just be their mum, instead of trying to sort out their lives and all their problems, they have to find their own way and make their own mistakes and hopefully learn from them. All I can do is be here if they need me.

Thanks for replying to my post, (Back from the Lakes) and thanks for the huge hug I needed it, Sending one back. God Bless.

Jewel

smoke gets in my eyes

Gee... was I harsh? LOL Honestly I boiled those noodles for 5 minutes longer than the directions said.

"Right" is such an elusive concept where drug users are concerned. The only thing that can ever clue you into what's right (for you) is when your actions start to give you some peace of mind. Somehow I don't think letting her drive her KIA over your prostrate form is going to do that... but it's your sacrorylliac. Please just remember that you matter. I don't happen to think there's anything wrong with taking care of people you love. That's what families are when they're functioning... people who help take care of each other. But you are a part of that family. Your security and sanity are just as important as anyone else's, and offering them up as a flaming sacrifice isn't going to save someone who won't help take care of themself.

Hugs!
Smoke

Jon

It's very rare that I venture over here, but this thread has been awesome.

I have just one word to share with hangin' that us A's cannot be taught by gifts of kindness or love.

Accountability.

And without it, though we may be sober/dry, we are not recovering.

D MOM

Hangin’ In,

I would like to add something to this situation. If it would not be a financial burden to help her get set up than maybe it would be the right thing to do for you. I know for myself, I didn’t worry as much when my kids were out on their own as I did when they were living at home. When they are living at home especially as adults and they stay out late I could never sleep. When they are living on their own I don’t know if there home or not and so I don’t worry as much. That may sound very selfish but it has been easier for me to detach from the when they are not living at home. I am certainly not suggesting that you set her up in a luxury apartment that she can’t afford. But maybe by helping her with the deposit you both win. She gets to prove she can make it and grow up and you can sleep.

Good luck and as always I am saying a prayer for your family.



DMOM
:kisshug:

liddy

Hangin In
big hugs to you ! I posted a thread last night to you that never went through, dumb comp; anyway, everyone has had such good thoughts. and i also felt the need to just give you added support.
My daughter came here because i had female surgery last wednesday and she , out of love and concern came to help.
well... what she actualy did was drink for three days , here.
and as we are all still learning i learned , again,
one she will never drink here again, two, I am absolutely
convinced of my powerlessness over alcohol and three I will
continue to suck up recovery in massive amounts !
her third day here i left for a spiritual weekend and almost didnt go i was so upset about leaving her here in that condition.
But my HP handled the rest after i was gone, she went back to her husband the next morning and apologized to her father.
I love my 27 yr old daughter as much as anyone here loves theirs
I tried to save her and control her drinking. It doesnt work.
Hangin In you do what feels right to you,we cannot control
one iota their choice to drink, to make things nice for them or not.
Their recovery is all theirs and their HP. As ours is ours.
Jon said it well,accountability.
much love
liddy