Mahym

I've been spending the last couple of hours lurking, reading various posts and informations. Just thought I'd write what brings me here and see what people have to say.

I met this really great guy. He's part of a choir that I am also a member of, he joined back in January, but I only recently started to notice him and talk with him. Last week I got brave and asked him out.

We had a really fantastic date, talking about anything and everything, feeling like we had known each other a lot longer than just a few weeks. Towards the end of the evening, we ended up making out on his couch. Which is when he suddenly stopped and just started talking.

He explained that being single was very important to him, that he didn't want to lead me on but that he needs to be single. Seeing that I seemed to be accepting of his honesty but somewhat confused, he continued to talk, and it all came out. He told me he was an alcoholic, has been for 8 years, that he's managed to stop a few times (no more than 2 weeks to a month at a time), and has relapsed each time, but that presently he's been sober for a month, feels really good and has been working very hard at staying that way. He ended up telling me about how he's been working towards this since July, going to AA meetings, implementing changes at home and at work to remove his triggers. Basically emptying his appartment of excess clutter and finding activities that have expectations of him. I found myself a little in awe of the work he was doing and the courage it must have required.

We spent the rest of the night cuddling and talking, about everything and anything. There were a few times that easily could have strayed into 'dangerous' territories, but we were both able to be completely honest about what was ok and what wasn't. So it was a very positive albeit intense experience.

Since then, we haven't spoken. I won't see him until our next choir practice I imagine. And I've been finding myself turning all of this information over and over in my head. From everything I read, I think he's absolutely right in his wanting to remain single, his sobriety seems to be and should be his number one priority.

I just wonder where to put myself... I really would like to keep him in my life. I understand what incredible trust he put in me by telling me all of this, especially seeing as he really didn't have to. I don't want to put any pressure on him, and yet at the same time, I'd like to let him know that I care about him and I'd like to be friends. Now I can tell that I really like this guy, so I don't want to get hurt either, just not so sure what to do I guess...

Like I said, this is all very new to me... but I can't help but feel like I don't have all that much say in all this. Any thoughts?

Cynay

Ohhhh Sweetie....

Welcome to SR... Im sooo glad you are looking for answers now. Please remember this is my opinion and experiences...

Where do you put him??? FRIENDS..... honestly and that means 100% just friends, no cuddling, kissing, romance....nada. Detach like hell and make sure to keep yourself detached... and if you really want to understand start attending Al-anon meetings.

He is only one month sober sweetie, I honestly feel that if you/he are anything but friends and I mean in the most platonic of ways.... there will more then likely be alot of pain. This is not healthy for either of you, he has to learn how to live and you should really research the Disease of Alcoholism.... I know you really like him, but please think about getting the information before your heart is fully engaged.

Im glad your here, keep posting, reading and getting to know us ... I look forward to getting to know you.

atalose

I see big red flags waving and suggest you begin to look into your codependency issues. After one date you are falling too fast and are already looking for reassurance of some kind with where to place your self with this man.
You need to not only listen to what he has told you, but really hear it. He has told you he wants to remain single, he has told you his history with alcoholism and relapses. It sounds very much like you are infatuated with this man and are building your emotions too close to him for comfort right now.

Mahym

ouch... yeah... hate to hear it, but you might be right... things to think about.

damn...

denny57

Welcome, Mahym

Not much to add to the excellent advice above, but that incredible trust he put in you? It's emotional manipulation and hooking. Works every time if you're a trusting and caring person.

Take care of you. Keep reading and posting here.

Good luck!

Mahym

so now I find myself just a little more confused...

Manipulation? Can I put no credence into what he says? He seemed rather honest about everything, and as far as I can tell, his alcoholism is not something that he has shared with many people... and it would seem to me that there would have been much easier ways to manipulate me...

I completely understand the need to detach, I definitely don't want to get hurt. Now obviously I was interested by this guy prior to knowing anything about his alcoholism... but can I maintain any sort of frienship with him if I start distrusting and second guessing everything he does or says? (which at this point I don't, but starting to wonder...)

Does any of this make any sense??

Rella927

Welcome Mayhym! What I think everyone is trying to say but I can only speak for myself- is that yes he has been honest with his alcoholism with you which is wonderful! Some us were not that fortunate...and jumped into relationships or were in already when the alcoholism began.

Can you maintain a friendship with him? Yes you probably can if you choose to do so but to just be aware of the signs that he as most alcoholics do and or will try to manipulate you to some degree and for one reason or another. I as a codie if not taking care of myself will start to deteriorate mentally, physically, psychologically, and spiritually if I allow myself to keep focusing on the A. In return the A will be able to keep taking advantage of this and manipulate. A nice ride on a roller coaster if you will.

I think what people are trying to say more or less is search more within yourself and see if this is what you want to get yourself into and if you do keep boundaries set and respect that he has admitted is an A....which is a step in the right direction-but he also let you know that he relapes-he is trying to protect you-and give you a heads up of who he is and that he wants to move towards his soberiety and sounds like turn it into a part of his life to get better-and not to be consumed in a realtionship other than friendship right now.

It was suggested to go to Al-Anon and I believe that is a good start for yourself.

It's very painful to watch someone you care about struggling with alcoholism. The helplessness we feel in dealing with them often leads us to drastic measures to attempt to change their behaviors which is what I think people here are trying to inform you of that getting into a realtionship of any kind be it a friend, or lover that it will involve some type of chaos. And I believe he is being honest with you letting you know this as well because I do not think he wants you to get hurt. It is what they do-when they drink.

It appears you are investing alot of energy into this before you even begin a friendship- just take a few steps back and go to an Al-anon meeting. Keep posting here as well before you make any drastic choices to pursue this further.

A's are not bad people it is just hard to allow yourself to go through what they need to go through themselves without dragging you down too.

(((Hugs))) Sorry for the long post but i hate to see someone not be aware of what they are getting into from my expierence

atalose

He's shared something with you rather quickly for not having known him at all. That is a stop sign! whether on his part or yours. For someone to open up that much to a stranger would make me guess he was using his illness as either a badge of courage or a weapon to keep you at bay. Manipulation does come to mind whether or not he realizes it.
As far as the friends things, your emotions are running in the direction of wanting to date this man, someone you made out with and are rather into very quickly. If may be hard for you to just be friends, maybe you should just see what happends in the next few weeks. See if he calls you to go out again or not.

Cynay

Well if he has only been sober for a month.... how many people has he had time to tell? Besides anyone that was around him probably already knew.

Emotional manuplation.... Well lets take a look at this. You went on a "really fantastic date" (If he was serious about recovery and being honest he would not have gone on the date. His sponsor would no doubt have told him no major changes in the first year).

You went to his place and started to get physical... oviously you responded. (He already knew he had nothing to give you, yet he lead you to the physical)... THEN he stops and tells you he cant be in a relationship, He does not want to lead you on? (what did he do all evening) he has a disease he is fighting and he does not know if he can stay sober and there are soooooo many triggers that he had to tell you all the steps to try as he might to get to where he is now (Hell, he would have any good Codie's heart beating by now... A man that is fighting a disease? and our ohhhh I can help him. He is sensitive enough to break down and be honest with you and not only honest but to tell you how hard it was.... all he had to go thought *sniff sniff* to just get to the edge he is now holding on too. *remember he should have told you before the physical*) ...

So then so cleaverly sets you up to make sure you have no expectations of him with the :" Basically emptying his appartment of excess clutter and finding activities that have expectations of him. ": If there are too many expectations it will trigger him....... and it worked cuz you said this ...." I found myself a little in awe of the work he was doing and the courage it must have required."

OK... so if your not softened up enough.... Lets push somemore Codie buttons.

At the very least he should have stopped the cuddling and the fuzzy right there, but nope... he holds you and opens his heart all the way... *cough* Im falling for him just breaking this out.

Now this is the cherry on top. Why have you not talked with him if you just spent a night so open that you are developing "deep" feelings for him. I will say for myself if I got that close to a man that on our first date we where that physical, that much depth that I would develope the beginnings of those feelings...... he Dang well better call me. But this one keeps slient and lets you "think" (another word is obsess) about it so you are primed when you two get to talk again.

OK.... so I know that sounds hard core, I know that it even sound kinda mean in places.... but I do remember VERY well the frame of mind my ex-ABF was in when he was 30 days sober.... and to say I have a lack for respect for what he said and did would be such an understatement. That is why I suggest you go to Al-anon, maybe some open AA meetings... that would not be a bad Idea. Ask the people in AA what they think of someone one month sober even going on the date in the first place and see what they say.

I only say this out of love.... Please dont take it personally ... just trying to share what has happened with me and what Im seeing.

Mhubb... welcome. How about starting a new thread to introduce yourself ... that way it will not get buried in this one.... and btw There is nothing on earth you can do to make them drink again.

fluffyflea

Hi,

This is my experience, strength, and hope.

I've been sober for nearly a decade. I think back to when I first was getting sober and wasn't in a relationship and am glad of it now. I wouldn't have been able to handle it and it most certainly would not have been healthy in any way shape or form. It takes a lot of time being sober to cope with a healthy relationship, to even know what one looks like.

All a relationship would have done for me at the beginning of my sobriety was make me drink again.

Take your distance from this man he has a lot to go through and you probably don't need the stress and strain of it in your life.

Earthworm

fluffyflea

Also, if he has a sponsor it is not recommended to people in a A.A to have a relationship for at least the first year, preferably first two years.


Earthworm

fluffyflea

He has only been sober a month, he has had no time to work on his program or the steps. He has dysfunctuional tendencies he isn't aware of yet, one of them being manipulative to get what he wants. He hasn't had to time get on his feet and become self-sufficient and not use people as tools.


Earthworm

fluffyflea

Ya know I've got to agree with Cynay about leaving you thinking (obsessing). A's are masters at that and by the time you see them again you are just jello to them.


You need to for your sanity not get involved with him.. If he was serious about his program he wouldn't have been on a date with you.


Earthworm

Astro

Thanks for throwing that in Earthworm. I attend a large meeting every day and get to see the effects first hand of people having relationships in early recovery. Most of them are not successful, relapses are more common than not, and the emotional turmoil can be very obvious.

Mayhm, I hope this doesn't sound too harsh and believe me when I say that I've fantasized many times in recovery about having a wonderful relationship. But.........

At one month sober dating someone would've been like holding a loaded gun to my head, at one year I was contemplating it and my head was still a wasteland of emotions, and at just over two years sober I'm still having difficulties coping with past relationships and the mark they've left on me. I'm afraid of being alone, I'm trying to sort through my emotions so that I can have a healthy relationship, but I'm starting to understand that I've still got a long way to go before I'm ready to be with someone again. Better to wait than to leave more destruction in my wake.

MsGolightly

hi mahym, welcome

i want to second cynay's posts. her info and opinions may be hard to swallow at first, but what she is expressing to you is something very common... something we've all been through!

if i were you, for now, i'd maintain that friendship from a distance, like only talking to him at choir practice, and detaching yourself from wanting any kind of relationship with him -- because if he starts one with you now, it might be all sunshine and roses for a short while, but he will not be fully capable of giving you the relationship or man you deserve (which is why they recommend one year... it takes that long for them to recognize how to help themselves and love themselves before they can love another).

for your sake, i'd give it time. i'd trust your gut from the beginning about the manipulation - be cautious and question things.

minnie

Hi there, Mahym, and welcome to SR.

Would you date someone who had been separated from his wife for a month?

BigSis

Good analogy, Minnie

Excellent advice in the posts above me. I guess I know you will do what you need to do... just remember the piece I quoted above. ... he warned you.

denny57

Yep. The next quoted piece will be "I TOLD you I needed to be single."
Emotional manipulation in BigSis' chosen quote: when he says he "didn't want to lead you on." The immediate response to that is oh no, you're not leading me on, I'm making this choice all by myself. What a great guy you are - not wanting to lead me on.

This kind of manipulation works whether the person is alcoholic or not. It's classic stuff. Al-Anon and/or individual therapy could really help in gaining some knowledge on this.

BTW I'm only cynical about the manipulators. Something funny is happening in my life; as I get healthier I'm finding out just how many other healthy people are out there.

Astro

Bring it on, Denny. Being a master manipulator I certainly appreciate the slap once in awhile

denny57

I heard a rumor you were working on that LOL