Adddict HP Meets Your HP!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 107
Adddict HP Meets Your HP!
My AS is in recovery, working his program and I am so grateful for that. I too am working on my role in his life. My plan was always to pay for his higher education. However, he now lives in a half way house and the cost of his living expenses plus school approach the limits of what I can afford. His HP tells him to focus on recovery. My HP tells me to set limits which might require him to work. He tells me if he has to work he will either sacrifice school or recovery (meetings, etc).
I know, pray, pray, pray and I will. I just can't find it within my self to discourage him from what is keepig him sober each day.I find myself weepy and discouraged for the first time in months. Honestly he knows I can afford this if i keep working 70hrs a week, but If if do this want to save for retirement and provide for my DD, she deserves my full attentiion now.
I know, pray, pray, pray and I will. I just can't find it within my self to discourage him from what is keepig him sober each day.I find myself weepy and discouraged for the first time in months. Honestly he knows I can afford this if i keep working 70hrs a week, but If if do this want to save for retirement and provide for my DD, she deserves my full attentiion now.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: twilight zone,usa
Posts: 3,909
i will say a prayer for your wisdom to solve this. maybe your son could work on weekends to pay for his halfway house until he gets out.he needs to accept some of the responsibitliy for his living. this is not your problem.if he has the will he will find a way. hugs,
Bridge CLOSED
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: No ones business
Posts: 1,497
My parents made a deal with me from little kid-dom to adult hood. I was to go to college and I was to pay for it. I did too.
I commuted from home (that was their help.. I could live at home under their rules). I had to work. I owned my own painting business (exterior.. houses) and I worked on a farm and as a book keeper.. a bunch of stuff.. all part time. I learned to NEVER turn down a paying job.. I mowed lawns and drove a dump truck.. a lot of stuff.
You need to take care of you. He needs to take care of him. Many people work and put off education until a later date in their lives.
What he is telling you sounds not a lot like recovery and a whole lot like manipulation. I may be wrong about that?
IMO Education is important long term but it isn't worth much without sobriety.
I commuted from home (that was their help.. I could live at home under their rules). I had to work. I owned my own painting business (exterior.. houses) and I worked on a farm and as a book keeper.. a bunch of stuff.. all part time. I learned to NEVER turn down a paying job.. I mowed lawns and drove a dump truck.. a lot of stuff.
You need to take care of you. He needs to take care of him. Many people work and put off education until a later date in their lives.
What he is telling you sounds not a lot like recovery and a whole lot like manipulation. I may be wrong about that?
IMO Education is important long term but it isn't worth much without sobriety.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
Recovery is important - and TODAY, it may be more important than school. His decision on that one.
Giving up MY dream for my kids - and college was a big one - was extremely difficult (and I still slip back into that MY dream business even now). I think you are right on target, though... your higher power WILL bring you to the place you need to be ... just as He brings your son to the place HE needs to be.
And college may not be in the near future.
Letting go and going with the flow are HARD things to do. My sponsor would tell me to -
Wait. Pray. More shall be revealed.
(((Hugs)))
Giving up MY dream for my kids - and college was a big one - was extremely difficult (and I still slip back into that MY dream business even now). I think you are right on target, though... your higher power WILL bring you to the place you need to be ... just as He brings your son to the place HE needs to be.
And college may not be in the near future.
Letting go and going with the flow are HARD things to do. My sponsor would tell me to -
Wait. Pray. More shall be revealed.
(((Hugs)))
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 107
Thank you, these are good thoughts and opinions. He cannot live at home again. I don't want him to, and he doesn't either. Too many bad memories and former addicts live in the close vicinity.
[QUOTE]What he is telling you sounds not a lot like recovery and a whole lot like manipulation. I may be wrong about that? [/QUOTE)
No, not at all off base! My head tells me this is what is going on, but my heart wants to trust his recovery process since he is doing so well. The problem is that he knows I and my extended family have ample resources to fully support him... we don't want to. When we did, he got in major drug trouble. So his thinking is that we should support him now while he is in recovery rather than penalize him. I struggle with that. I guess it is time for, sorry, those options were available to you at one time but circumstances have changed....don't know if I have that in me.
I hate to kick an addict on his way up, KWIM?
If it makes any difference he is working on getting a chemical dependency counseling degree.
I dunno, maybe I am quacking here myself,,,LOL. I have just seen so many positive changes in him I hate to be a downer. I do appreciate all of your franks and honest opinions.
[QUOTE]What he is telling you sounds not a lot like recovery and a whole lot like manipulation. I may be wrong about that? [/QUOTE)
No, not at all off base! My head tells me this is what is going on, but my heart wants to trust his recovery process since he is doing so well. The problem is that he knows I and my extended family have ample resources to fully support him... we don't want to. When we did, he got in major drug trouble. So his thinking is that we should support him now while he is in recovery rather than penalize him. I struggle with that. I guess it is time for, sorry, those options were available to you at one time but circumstances have changed....don't know if I have that in me.
I hate to kick an addict on his way up, KWIM?
If it makes any difference he is working on getting a chemical dependency counseling degree.
I dunno, maybe I am quacking here myself,,,LOL. I have just seen so many positive changes in him I hate to be a downer. I do appreciate all of your franks and honest opinions.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
He CAN attend school and practice his recovery and work. Many do that. Or he can choose what is best for him today, recovery, and worry about school later.
The thing is, this is his recovery and should be his choice...AND his responsibility.
I see no reason for you to forfeit your retirement savings to try to keep all his dreams in place. YOUR dreams matter too and he can have his dreams if he is willing to work for them, just like you did.
Don't rob him if the lesson of looking after himself, and learning to make life choices that may include postponing some plans.
He will stay clean or use based on his own willingness to remain clean and sober. Where he is and what he is doing or whether his dreams come true will have nothing to do with it. Life is filled with problems that require patience, compromise, disappointments and hard work. These are his lessons to learn if he is to ever be able to take care of himself.
Save your money. In the end we can't buy their sobriety.
I say all this with love, as a mother who wishes she hadn't robbed her own son of some of these lessons.
Hugs
The thing is, this is his recovery and should be his choice...AND his responsibility.
I see no reason for you to forfeit your retirement savings to try to keep all his dreams in place. YOUR dreams matter too and he can have his dreams if he is willing to work for them, just like you did.
Don't rob him if the lesson of looking after himself, and learning to make life choices that may include postponing some plans.
He will stay clean or use based on his own willingness to remain clean and sober. Where he is and what he is doing or whether his dreams come true will have nothing to do with it. Life is filled with problems that require patience, compromise, disappointments and hard work. These are his lessons to learn if he is to ever be able to take care of himself.
Save your money. In the end we can't buy their sobriety.
I say all this with love, as a mother who wishes she hadn't robbed her own son of some of these lessons.
Hugs
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 23
I can totally relate to your experience. Being the mother of an addicted son, it's really tough.
Please remember that YOUR actions are not what is keeping him from being sober each day. As Ann said, you can't buy his recovery or sobriety. Ultimately, it will always come back to him.
I put thousands and thousands of dollars into my older son's rehab and attempts at a new life. It wasn't until I said, "no more," that he started to make some hard choices. I was spent...physically, emotionally and financially.
Like you, I also have another child who deserves the best I can deliver as a parent.
My thoughts are that whatever drew the addict to become an addict in the first place probably came from his or her wanting to escape from something. As long as we continue to allow that escape, we're not helping them. In fact, we're also hurting ourselves and the rest of our loved ones.
It's okay to just say, "I can't help you with that." That is the reality and that is what your son needs to face eventually.
Big hugs from one mom to another,
Marjatta
Please remember that YOUR actions are not what is keeping him from being sober each day. As Ann said, you can't buy his recovery or sobriety. Ultimately, it will always come back to him.
I put thousands and thousands of dollars into my older son's rehab and attempts at a new life. It wasn't until I said, "no more," that he started to make some hard choices. I was spent...physically, emotionally and financially.
Like you, I also have another child who deserves the best I can deliver as a parent.
My thoughts are that whatever drew the addict to become an addict in the first place probably came from his or her wanting to escape from something. As long as we continue to allow that escape, we're not helping them. In fact, we're also hurting ourselves and the rest of our loved ones.
It's okay to just say, "I can't help you with that." That is the reality and that is what your son needs to face eventually.
Big hugs from one mom to another,
Marjatta
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
I can really relate to your struggle. The hardest thing for me to realize was no matter what I did that was not enabling, I was not responsible for the choices my child made or for whther she stayed clean or not.
One of the tools I have been finding incredibly useful, with life in general, not just addiction, is to lay the issue out, express my thoughts and say "so this is the quandry, what are your thoughts on what you can do?" As an example, I just learned that someone's lack of oversight and testing on a project caused a half million dollar + mistake. I actually realized anger and frustration would do nothing to solve it (yeah! progress!), laid out the facts and asked for their input on how they were going to address it going forward. I'm thinking perhaps a firm statement from you that you can not continue to pay for school and the halfway house would place the problem right where it belongs, with him. No judgement, no frustation, no guilt... For it really is his problem to solve and his growth to achieve as he learns to deal with the ups and downs of life.
Lots of hugs...Keep trusting the process and more will be revealed.
One of the tools I have been finding incredibly useful, with life in general, not just addiction, is to lay the issue out, express my thoughts and say "so this is the quandry, what are your thoughts on what you can do?" As an example, I just learned that someone's lack of oversight and testing on a project caused a half million dollar + mistake. I actually realized anger and frustration would do nothing to solve it (yeah! progress!), laid out the facts and asked for their input on how they were going to address it going forward. I'm thinking perhaps a firm statement from you that you can not continue to pay for school and the halfway house would place the problem right where it belongs, with him. No judgement, no frustation, no guilt... For it really is his problem to solve and his growth to achieve as he learns to deal with the ups and downs of life.
Lots of hugs...Keep trusting the process and more will be revealed.
Southern through and through
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
Caught,
YOU ARE ME, just in another body with a son instead of a daughter.
And I have a good ending to this post, so read on.
Little background info: We had paid and paid and paid for college, over extended cell phone bills, bad checks...you know the drill. So when AD entered inpatient rehab, husband and I said that rehab will be her "college education" and we were DONE paying. Time for her to step up to the plate and live life on life's terms, as they say in recovery.
She completed 3 months in rehab. then went into a halfway house. I heard the VERY SAME STATEMENT..."I can't do all this (meaning working or school) and do my meetings, too." My very wise sponsor said my response should be, "I'm sure you'll figure it all out" or "I'm sure you'll do the best thing." And then I was told to LET IT GO. OUCH. Let it go? But my baby...what if...or what if.....or ...and you know the drill...again. Keep in mind that in early recovery, just like us, our kids haven't learned everything yet nor have they gotten rid of those character defects such as manipulating. I can only speak to my situation and it's taken a very long time for my recovering AD to stop the manipulation. But, hey, in her defense, it's probably taken me even longer to stop some of my stinking behavior. But you see, some of her "I can't do this and meetings, too" was only manipulation on her part. "If I can get mama to pay for it, then I can do exaclty what I want to do."
My sponsor kept reminding me that I am NOT to take my duaghter's repsonsiblities from her for when I do that, I ROB her of the opporutunity to build her self esteem, to see that she CAN do things on her own. Gosh, that makes SUCH sense to me today. Four years ago, I didn't get it.
So life rocked on. Daughter continued to work on her recovery and I kept my mouth shut (okay, so maybe a more honest statement would be "I TRIED" to keep my mouth shut. Sometimes I just relapsed.) My sponsor kept saying, "It's her's to handle. Stay out of it. Let her figure it out." And I did.
Today...oh here's the good part...I love telling this. Today, she is sober. Today she supports herself while working a waitressing job. Today she is in her 2nd semester of college, doing it TOTALLY ON HER OWN. She did the entire process by her herself. THAT IS HUGE in my book. She arranged to fill out all the paper work in order to get a grant. She was responsible and thought ahead to meet with a counselor. She is DOING RESPONSIBLE THINGS because I didn't do them for her. And her study habits, her grades, her concern for school and doing a good job are wonderful. Why? (1.) Because she's sober, and (2.) Because SHE is paying. Oh what a difference it makes.
Oh, Caught, words can't express how important I think it is to listen to the advice of those who have gone before us and worked the program with wonderful results. I am so thankful my sponsor kept drilling in my head, "Back off, let her do it".
I pray you'll come to a place where you feel comfortable. I just know for me and my daughter, I no longer want to rob her of the opportunity to feel good about herself. And when I take on her responsiblities, I am doing exactly that.
And just remember this. He needs to be sober in order to do all the other things you want for his life (even though we know he has to decide what he wants for his life...not our call.) So if he has to concentrate on staying sober and not do school for a while, that's okay. As I told my daughter, schools will always be open.
Big hugs from this mom cause I sure do understand.
Hangin' In
P.S. Sorry this is long. In my next life I'm going to learn to write more concisely!
YOU ARE ME, just in another body with a son instead of a daughter.
And I have a good ending to this post, so read on. Little background info: We had paid and paid and paid for college, over extended cell phone bills, bad checks...you know the drill. So when AD entered inpatient rehab, husband and I said that rehab will be her "college education" and we were DONE paying. Time for her to step up to the plate and live life on life's terms, as they say in recovery.
She completed 3 months in rehab. then went into a halfway house. I heard the VERY SAME STATEMENT..."I can't do all this (meaning working or school) and do my meetings, too." My very wise sponsor said my response should be, "I'm sure you'll figure it all out" or "I'm sure you'll do the best thing." And then I was told to LET IT GO. OUCH. Let it go? But my baby...what if...or what if.....or ...and you know the drill...again.
Keep in mind that in early recovery, just like us, our kids haven't learned everything yet nor have they gotten rid of those character defects such as manipulating. I can only speak to my situation and it's taken a very long time for my recovering AD to stop the manipulation. But, hey, in her defense, it's probably taken me even longer to stop some of my stinking behavior. But you see, some of her "I can't do this and meetings, too" was only manipulation on her part. "If I can get mama to pay for it, then I can do exaclty what I want to do."My sponsor kept reminding me that I am NOT to take my duaghter's repsonsiblities from her for when I do that, I ROB her of the opporutunity to build her self esteem, to see that she CAN do things on her own. Gosh, that makes SUCH sense to me today. Four years ago, I didn't get it.
So life rocked on. Daughter continued to work on her recovery and I kept my mouth shut (okay, so maybe a more honest statement would be "I TRIED" to keep my mouth shut. Sometimes I just relapsed.) My sponsor kept saying, "It's her's to handle. Stay out of it. Let her figure it out." And I did.
Today...oh here's the good part...I love telling this. Today, she is sober. Today she supports herself while working a waitressing job. Today she is in her 2nd semester of college, doing it TOTALLY ON HER OWN. She did the entire process by her herself. THAT IS HUGE in my book. She arranged to fill out all the paper work in order to get a grant. She was responsible and thought ahead to meet with a counselor. She is DOING RESPONSIBLE THINGS because I didn't do them for her. And her study habits, her grades, her concern for school and doing a good job are wonderful. Why? (1.) Because she's sober, and (2.) Because SHE is paying. Oh what a difference it makes.
Oh, Caught, words can't express how important I think it is to listen to the advice of those who have gone before us and worked the program with wonderful results. I am so thankful my sponsor kept drilling in my head, "Back off, let her do it".
I pray you'll come to a place where you feel comfortable. I just know for me and my daughter, I no longer want to rob her of the opportunity to feel good about herself. And when I take on her responsiblities, I am doing exactly that.
And just remember this. He needs to be sober in order to do all the other things you want for his life (even though we know he has to decide what he wants for his life...not our call.) So if he has to concentrate on staying sober and not do school for a while, that's okay. As I told my daughter, schools will always be open.
Big hugs from this mom cause I sure do understand.
Hangin' In
P.S. Sorry this is long. In my next life I'm going to learn to write more concisely!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 285
I too paid for my as's education, rehab, cigarettes, food, while he recovered off and on for over 2 years. Finally had had enough and now he is living with a friend. He found a job himself and has opened a savings account to buy a car. Really wish he was going to meetings though. He claims he can't have his friend drive him anywhere else. He carts him around enough. Hopefully, when he does buy that car, he will go to a meeting, but somehow I doubt it. He claims he's sober. But I'm done giving, and he now has to grow up and think on his own for a change.
I think it's about time. Hangin in, your story is inspiring, and I hope for the same outcome for my son. Caughtinthemid, I too have 2 other children to consider and am now focusing on them. Hugs.
I think it's about time. Hangin in, your story is inspiring, and I hope for the same outcome for my son. Caughtinthemid, I too have 2 other children to consider and am now focusing on them. Hugs.
Southern through and through
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
Oh, a little P.S. to my previous post.
I said this:
Oh, Caught, words can't express how important I think it is to listen to the advice of those who have gone before us and worked the program with wonderful results. I am so thankful my sponsor kept drilling in my head, "Back off, let her do it".
Just so I don't confuse you (or me), I wanted to clarify that working the program or working my program is about me, not about getting good results from my daughter. My AD is doing good and that is wonderful news. But the "good results" that comes from working a program is good for the person working it...that would be me. For example, when I detach from a situation that is causing such chaos in my life, I am more at peace thus feeing successful with the results of that detaching. Now if the addicted person takes cues from my behavior and decides for herself to make better choices, well then that's just a bonus.
Ok, hope I clarified what I said or what I meant or ... who knows?
I said this:
Oh, Caught, words can't express how important I think it is to listen to the advice of those who have gone before us and worked the program with wonderful results. I am so thankful my sponsor kept drilling in my head, "Back off, let her do it".
Just so I don't confuse you (or me), I wanted to clarify that working the program or working my program is about me, not about getting good results from my daughter. My AD is doing good and that is wonderful news. But the "good results" that comes from working a program is good for the person working it...that would be me. For example, when I detach from a situation that is causing such chaos in my life, I am more at peace thus feeing successful with the results of that detaching. Now if the addicted person takes cues from my behavior and decides for herself to make better choices, well then that's just a bonus.
Ok, hope I clarified what I said or what I meant or ... who knows?
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