another forum?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,351
another forum?
I was moving around here in and out of some other forum to offer kind thoughts and support---and what should happen??????
In the ''friends and families of substance abuse"" forum
They to have a thread about choices and ?disease.
Very interesting to read--they are very open and are talking about this topic.
Interesting to read how much more open minded they areand more curious....
drugs vs alcohol wonder why they feel so differently then alot of the posts I read on our forum
In the ''friends and families of substance abuse"" forum
They to have a thread about choices and ?disease.
Very interesting to read--they are very open and are talking about this topic.
Interesting to read how much more open minded they areand more curious....
drugs vs alcohol wonder why they feel so differently then alot of the posts I read on our forum
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
My mind is very open this has been enlightening, the years of going through this.
You see alot believe such as I do. It's very common, doctors and non alike.
In the long run all of us affected by those that are alcoholics know we can not live in the crazy word they would like us to. So we find ourselves.
The reasons should be their's to find and deal with.
You see alot believe such as I do. It's very common, doctors and non alike.
In the long run all of us affected by those that are alcoholics know we can not live in the crazy word they would like us to. So we find ourselves.
The reasons should be their's to find and deal with.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, out there...
Posts: 512
sunflower,
i cruise around the boards as well - as i once mentioned - i have lots of issues
- i find what you say to be true though - the substance abuse forum is a lot more open minded - but i think, at f&f of substance abuse, a lot are parents going through addiction with their kids and here, it seems, we are going through alcoholism with our spouses - i find that interesting - different love maybe - i am really trying to find the right way for me - that involves my husband and a drinking problem, my sister and a substance abuse problem, a son who's been through an intensive outpatient program (which brought me here to sr) and then there's me - well, i need the most work of anyone...
que sara...
love,
s
i cruise around the boards as well - as i once mentioned - i have lots of issues
- i find what you say to be true though - the substance abuse forum is a lot more open minded - but i think, at f&f of substance abuse, a lot are parents going through addiction with their kids and here, it seems, we are going through alcoholism with our spouses - i find that interesting - different love maybe - i am really trying to find the right way for me - that involves my husband and a drinking problem, my sister and a substance abuse problem, a son who's been through an intensive outpatient program (which brought me here to sr) and then there's me - well, i need the most work of anyone... que sara...
love,
s
Becoming a Butterfly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 904
Maybe, I'm just thinking aloud here, they are more accepting because they are the kind of people who will live with someone who is doing something so blatently illegal. I would not live with someone who smoked crack or did heroin - I just wouldn't. But I lived in a situation just as sick with an alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, out there...
Posts: 512
Originally Posted by WantsOut 
Maybe, I'm just thinking aloud here, they are more accepting because they are the kind of people who will live with someone who is doing something so blatently illegal. I would not live with someone who smoked crack or did heroin - I just wouldn't. But I lived in a situation just as sick with an alcoholic.
these kids will hopefully live with their parents again, and their parents will find freedom from addiction - doctors are pretty hopeful they have found specific parts of the brain and the brain chemistry that addiction will be able to be cured like cancer - they are learning new things everyday - i would like to think we all could - if we tried - and you know that saying *there but for the grace of god go i* - i hope if you do encounter something like this you find someone to listen to you that isn't quite as close minded...
just my opinion...
love,
s
Always hopeful...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 429
I do think they are more apt to see things differently. Don't know why either....
I'm trying to think of my friends associated w/ family/friends with drug addictions. No recognition of a big difference between us....?????
Interesting tho!
I'm trying to think of my friends associated w/ family/friends with drug addictions. No recognition of a big difference between us....?????
Interesting tho!
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Just thought I would post a little in formation from the addiction
Series on HBO,
Myths of Addiction
Old Ideas
Since so much of our scientific understanding of addiction is relatively new, and since so much about drug and alcohol use is tied up in belief systems, it's not surprising that myths about this disease abound.
"There are two main misconceptions that really drive me crazy when it comes to addictions," says Dr. Kathleen Brady, a professor at the Medical University of South Carolina. "One of them is this whole idea that an individual needs to reach rock bottom before they can get any help. That is absolutely wrong. There is no evidence that that's true. In fact, quite the contrary. The earlier in the addiction process that you can intervene and get someone help, the more they have to live for. The more they have to get better for."
The other big myth, says Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the federal government's National Institute on Drug Abuse, is that you have to want to be treated in order to get better. Even as an internationally respected researcher, she once believed that to be true, Volkow says, but she knows now that people who are forced into treatment do recover. Addicted people may be pushed to enter a treatment program by an employer, a companion or the criminal justice system. Employers may threaten to fire a person unless treated; a spouse may threaten to leave the relationship, or the court may offer treatment in lieu of prison. (In this case, people convicted of nonviolent, drug-related crimes may go through specialized alternative courts, called drug courts, in which they can reduce their sentence or avoid jail altogether by getting intensive addiction treatment.) In fact, research has shown that the outcomes for those who are legally mandated to enter treatment can be as good as the outcomes for those who entered treatment voluntarily.
Myths About Addiction*
* Adapted from Myths of Addiction. Carlton K. Erickson, Ph.D., University of Texas Addiction Science
1. Addicts are bad, crazy, or stupid.
Evolving research is demonstrating that addicts are not bad people who need to get good, crazy people who need to get sane, or stupid people who need education. Addicts have a brain disease that goes beyond their use of drugs.
2. Addiction is a willpower problem.
This is an old belief, probably based upon wanting to blame addicts for using drugs to excess. This myth is reinforced by the observation that most treatments for alcoholism and addiction are behavioral (talk) therapies, which are perceived to build self-control. But addiction occurs in an area of the brain called the mesolimbic dopamine system that is not under conscious control.
3. Addicts should be punished, not treated, for using drugs.
Science is demonstrating that addicts have a brain disease that causes them to have impaired control over their use of drugs. Addicts need treatment for their neurochemically driven brain pathology.
4. People addicted to one drug are addicted to all drugs.
While this sometimes occurs, most people who are dependent on a drug may be dependent on one or two drugs, but not all. This is probably due to how each drug "matches up" with the person's brain chemistry.
5. Addicts cannot be treated with medications.
Actually, addicts are medically detoxified in hospitals, when appropriate, all the time. But can they be treated with medications after detox? New pharmacotherapies (medicines) are being developed to help patients who have already become abstinent to further curb their craving for addicting drugs. These medications reduce the chances of relapse and enhance the effectiveness of existing behavioral (talk) therapies.
6. Addiction is treated behaviorally, so it must be a behavioral problem.
New brain scan studies are showing that behavioral treatments (i.e., psychotherapy) and medications work similarly in changing brain function. So addiction is a brain disease that can be treated by changing brain function, through several types of treatments.
7. Alcoholics can stop drinking simply by attending AA meetings, so they can't have a brain disease.
The key word here is "simply." For most people, AA is a tough, lifelong working of the Twelve Steps. On the basis of research, we know that this support system of people with a common experience is one of the active ingredients of recovery in AA. AA doesn't work for everyone, even for many people who truly want to stop drinking.
Have a nice night, hope3
Series on HBO,
Myths of Addiction
Old Ideas
Since so much of our scientific understanding of addiction is relatively new, and since so much about drug and alcohol use is tied up in belief systems, it's not surprising that myths about this disease abound.
"There are two main misconceptions that really drive me crazy when it comes to addictions," says Dr. Kathleen Brady, a professor at the Medical University of South Carolina. "One of them is this whole idea that an individual needs to reach rock bottom before they can get any help. That is absolutely wrong. There is no evidence that that's true. In fact, quite the contrary. The earlier in the addiction process that you can intervene and get someone help, the more they have to live for. The more they have to get better for."
The other big myth, says Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the federal government's National Institute on Drug Abuse, is that you have to want to be treated in order to get better. Even as an internationally respected researcher, she once believed that to be true, Volkow says, but she knows now that people who are forced into treatment do recover. Addicted people may be pushed to enter a treatment program by an employer, a companion or the criminal justice system. Employers may threaten to fire a person unless treated; a spouse may threaten to leave the relationship, or the court may offer treatment in lieu of prison. (In this case, people convicted of nonviolent, drug-related crimes may go through specialized alternative courts, called drug courts, in which they can reduce their sentence or avoid jail altogether by getting intensive addiction treatment.) In fact, research has shown that the outcomes for those who are legally mandated to enter treatment can be as good as the outcomes for those who entered treatment voluntarily.
Myths About Addiction*
* Adapted from Myths of Addiction. Carlton K. Erickson, Ph.D., University of Texas Addiction Science
1. Addicts are bad, crazy, or stupid.
Evolving research is demonstrating that addicts are not bad people who need to get good, crazy people who need to get sane, or stupid people who need education. Addicts have a brain disease that goes beyond their use of drugs.
2. Addiction is a willpower problem.
This is an old belief, probably based upon wanting to blame addicts for using drugs to excess. This myth is reinforced by the observation that most treatments for alcoholism and addiction are behavioral (talk) therapies, which are perceived to build self-control. But addiction occurs in an area of the brain called the mesolimbic dopamine system that is not under conscious control.
3. Addicts should be punished, not treated, for using drugs.
Science is demonstrating that addicts have a brain disease that causes them to have impaired control over their use of drugs. Addicts need treatment for their neurochemically driven brain pathology.
4. People addicted to one drug are addicted to all drugs.
While this sometimes occurs, most people who are dependent on a drug may be dependent on one or two drugs, but not all. This is probably due to how each drug "matches up" with the person's brain chemistry.
5. Addicts cannot be treated with medications.
Actually, addicts are medically detoxified in hospitals, when appropriate, all the time. But can they be treated with medications after detox? New pharmacotherapies (medicines) are being developed to help patients who have already become abstinent to further curb their craving for addicting drugs. These medications reduce the chances of relapse and enhance the effectiveness of existing behavioral (talk) therapies.
6. Addiction is treated behaviorally, so it must be a behavioral problem.
New brain scan studies are showing that behavioral treatments (i.e., psychotherapy) and medications work similarly in changing brain function. So addiction is a brain disease that can be treated by changing brain function, through several types of treatments.
7. Alcoholics can stop drinking simply by attending AA meetings, so they can't have a brain disease.
The key word here is "simply." For most people, AA is a tough, lifelong working of the Twelve Steps. On the basis of research, we know that this support system of people with a common experience is one of the active ingredients of recovery in AA. AA doesn't work for everyone, even for many people who truly want to stop drinking.
Have a nice night, hope3
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
I've done enough experiment on my own or experince
it and live it. I don't need a dvd to conveince me
how destructive it is. I've also lived it from the outside
looking in, under my roof.
I view it as just a simple allergy. There are all
kinds of allergy and poeple dy from those too.
In the mean time, I'll just continue to attend AA or NA
until science finds a cure or open offices across the
the street to drill a hole in my head.
Btw...i wouldn't want to be a human guinea pig eihter.
it and live it. I don't need a dvd to conveince me
how destructive it is. I've also lived it from the outside
looking in, under my roof.
I view it as just a simple allergy. There are all
kinds of allergy and poeple dy from those too.
In the mean time, I'll just continue to attend AA or NA
until science finds a cure or open offices across the
the street to drill a hole in my head.
Btw...i wouldn't want to be a human guinea pig eihter.
Becoming a Butterfly
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 904
I knew that wasn't going to come out right. Let me try this again.
People who get addicted to rx pills often say that part of what happened was that the pills were legal - they came from a doctor. No one said anything to them, and they were in denial for a long time, because of the legality of it all.
Booze I think often happens the same way. It's legal, it's all over the place, and only for some does it become a problem. It can take a while for loved ones and for the alcoholic themselves to come to terms with what's happening because of the legality of it all.
I think for those of us who came to this place via these "upstanding looking" paths might find ourselves to be less forgiving and more angry in our posts about addicts' motives.
IMO when someone is smoking crack around you or snorting heroin there's no denying that something very heavy is going on. Am I off base here? In our culture sitting with someone who is drinking too many beers is different than sitting with someone who is shooting up I think. Maybe the people who have lived with an illegal drug addict are more tolerant of their addictions because they were tolerant of the illegal drugging behavior.
It's not a moral judgement. I don't mean it that way. It's an observation I believe.
People who get addicted to rx pills often say that part of what happened was that the pills were legal - they came from a doctor. No one said anything to them, and they were in denial for a long time, because of the legality of it all.
Booze I think often happens the same way. It's legal, it's all over the place, and only for some does it become a problem. It can take a while for loved ones and for the alcoholic themselves to come to terms with what's happening because of the legality of it all.
I think for those of us who came to this place via these "upstanding looking" paths might find ourselves to be less forgiving and more angry in our posts about addicts' motives.
IMO when someone is smoking crack around you or snorting heroin there's no denying that something very heavy is going on. Am I off base here? In our culture sitting with someone who is drinking too many beers is different than sitting with someone who is shooting up I think. Maybe the people who have lived with an illegal drug addict are more tolerant of their addictions because they were tolerant of the illegal drugging behavior.
It's not a moral judgement. I don't mean it that way. It's an observation I believe.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anomaly
Posts: 2,180
Bayer invented heroin in the earliy 1900's or late 1800s
The human body process heroin into morphine
But a lot of people became addicted to it...
A campain of demonizing to try to cruve the problem due to raising crime rate.
Germany invented methampthetamine for combat pilots for long
fights combat hours and hightening of awarness.
Alcohol was use as a trade with native indians...it basically almost wiped
them out.
Real coke was use in coca-cola
of cours..prohibition during the depression, but it turned into a blood bath.
Ciggerates was issued to US combat soldier in world war II
and of couse it's a $10000000000000000 industries today
as long as there's money to made. legally or illigally.
If your are a smoker today...You're veiw as a dreg of society..due to all
the campains on the tube...raising medicial cost.
mmm...the government use to issue them ?
I disconnet the TV...and I observe my stress level decrease.lol
frames are taking out of programs to increase advertizing time.
whatever you have...you'll need a new one pretty soon.
And of course of the drugs alvaliable for all types of problems..
I see where Mr C is coming from
My GF meds coast almost $2000 a month
what am I going to do ???
It is my chioce
I don't drink and i don't use drugs
I didn't want to be pump up with prozac in my earliy reocvery either.
But if I worked sometimes of a living program I'm able to live
life oj life's terms, without drugs legal or illegal
yes, feeling everything all the time is not easy.
but i face everthing. When I'm happy I'm truly happy
when i'm sad....it sucks. but they're just my emotions
my emotions can't injure me or anyone if i don't react to them.
It passes, good emotions or bad emotions.
I can only change myself, i can't save the world or my change my GF
The human body process heroin into morphine
But a lot of people became addicted to it...
A campain of demonizing to try to cruve the problem due to raising crime rate.
Germany invented methampthetamine for combat pilots for long
fights combat hours and hightening of awarness.
Alcohol was use as a trade with native indians...it basically almost wiped
them out.
Real coke was use in coca-cola
of cours..prohibition during the depression, but it turned into a blood bath.
Ciggerates was issued to US combat soldier in world war II
and of couse it's a $10000000000000000 industries today
as long as there's money to made. legally or illigally.
If your are a smoker today...You're veiw as a dreg of society..due to all
the campains on the tube...raising medicial cost.
mmm...the government use to issue them ?
I disconnet the TV...and I observe my stress level decrease.lol
frames are taking out of programs to increase advertizing time.
whatever you have...you'll need a new one pretty soon.
And of course of the drugs alvaliable for all types of problems..
I see where Mr C is coming from
My GF meds coast almost $2000 a month
what am I going to do ???
It is my chioce
I don't drink and i don't use drugs
I didn't want to be pump up with prozac in my earliy reocvery either.
But if I worked sometimes of a living program I'm able to live
life oj life's terms, without drugs legal or illegal
yes, feeling everything all the time is not easy.
but i face everthing. When I'm happy I'm truly happy
when i'm sad....it sucks. but they're just my emotions
my emotions can't injure me or anyone if i don't react to them.
It passes, good emotions or bad emotions.
I can only change myself, i can't save the world or my change my GF
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seeking Peace
Posts: 1,371
Originally Posted by WantsOut
IMO when someone is smoking crack around you or snorting heroin there's no denying that something very heavy is going on. Am I off base here? In our culture sitting with someone who is drinking too many beers is different than sitting with someone who is shooting up I think. Maybe the people who have lived with an illegal drug addict are more tolerant of their addictions because they were tolerant of the illegal drugging behavior.
My exah started using heroin several years into our marriage and after we had a son together.
It took me a year to figure out what was going on.
My brother died of a drug overdose two years ago and I NEVER knew he was an addict.
Thats how good drug addicts can be at hiding their drug use from the people closest to them.
Most addicts don't sit around using drugs in front of their family. Unlike alcoholics who might sit around the house or at a bar drinking, the addict uses someplace else and they are very, very accomplished at hiding the truth from the ones who love them the most.
Sometimes the addict goes into a rehab and seems to be working a program only to be running around using. Living with a drug addict is like living in a house of mirrors...they say one thing and do quite another behind the scenes. Sometimes it takes a long time to figure this out...but that doesn't mean that the spouse or parent is 'more tolerant'... Nothing could be further from the truth imho.
Whatever the doc...I assure you that the pain is the same. I don't post here alot...but I do pop in and read from time to time...and although the doc may be different, the stories and heartache are the same.
Last edited by DesertEyes; 04-18-2007 at 06:25 PM. Reason: fixed broken quote
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 25
Neither my dually diagnosed addict sister or my pot and alcoholic boyfriend ever used illegal drugs around me. In my home growing up, there was a moral and religious opposition to alcohol and drugs. I am against the legalization of alcohol and nicotine. So is my sister. She is an addict though, and even though she believed it was wrong, it didn't stop her. She is three months clean.
I think you are confusing the differing profiles of addicts and alcoholics. There is some evidence that some drug addicts are attracted to the anti-social criminal elements of drug addiction. Some alcoholics would not use a illegal substance, and do not engage in anti-social behaivior until late stage alcoholism. As far as I know, the profiles of codependents to drug addicts and alcoholics do not differ in the same way.
Anyone can be involved with an addict, if I am any example. I do not allow criminal activity in my home, and my boyfriend has been kicked out after I discovered his hidden pot and alcohol using and other criminal behavior. I was not protected against ANYTHING by my standards. My mother was not protected from having an addict daughter by her standards. My father...etc. I still love both of them, and my sister will always be my sister.
I am powerless over the addicts in my life.
I think you are confusing the differing profiles of addicts and alcoholics. There is some evidence that some drug addicts are attracted to the anti-social criminal elements of drug addiction. Some alcoholics would not use a illegal substance, and do not engage in anti-social behaivior until late stage alcoholism. As far as I know, the profiles of codependents to drug addicts and alcoholics do not differ in the same way.
Anyone can be involved with an addict, if I am any example. I do not allow criminal activity in my home, and my boyfriend has been kicked out after I discovered his hidden pot and alcohol using and other criminal behavior. I was not protected against ANYTHING by my standards. My mother was not protected from having an addict daughter by her standards. My father...etc. I still love both of them, and my sister will always be my sister.
I am powerless over the addicts in my life.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere, out there...
Posts: 512
that hbo addiction show was the most enlightening, eyeopening documentary i've ever seen - it dealt with all types of addiction - alcohol, heroin, meth, etc...addiction doesn't discriminate - the things that doctors are learning are truly incredible - if addiction is a choice and the drug choice and/or knowledge of the addiction - well we wouldn't have a need for sr now would we?...
you know the thing that keeps coming back to me is *there but for the grace of god go i* - you never know what life may bring - i prefer to admit i don't have the answers but i'm willing and open to try and find them - when one thinks they know the answers they judge - judging is one of the ugliest character traits i've ever seen - i'll leave the judgement of everyone, addict, nonaddict, and everyone inbetween to my higher power...
in the end it doesn't really matter what you think or what i think - we all have a right to be here - sharing and hopefully learning...
godspeed,
s
you know the thing that keeps coming back to me is *there but for the grace of god go i* - you never know what life may bring - i prefer to admit i don't have the answers but i'm willing and open to try and find them - when one thinks they know the answers they judge - judging is one of the ugliest character traits i've ever seen - i'll leave the judgement of everyone, addict, nonaddict, and everyone inbetween to my higher power...
in the end it doesn't really matter what you think or what i think - we all have a right to be here - sharing and hopefully learning...
godspeed,
s
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SC
Posts: 1,027
Whatever the doc...I assure you that the pain is the same. I don't post here alot...but I do pop in and read from time to time...and although the doc may be different, the stories and heartache are the same.
Its not about the drug, its about the same love that you have for your AH, knowing that maybe he is illegally out drinking and driving and has the possibility of killing someone, it doesn't always stop you from leaving.
Addicts are very sneaky. I didn't know of my husbands addiction for quite a few months after we got married.
Addiction is addiction, no matter the drug. Its all the same.
Last edited by Jwife22; 04-18-2007 at 07:01 AM.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
