Frog_2hop

I just want to hear other's perspective of when it is okay to allow the kids to ride in a car with an addict? My husband is doing MUCH better. We are still separated because there are issues that need dealt with bigger and deeper than the actual drug itself. He is a chronic pain sufferer and has a pain pump now in addition to oral meds for break through pain. It is unlikely that he will ever be med free. We currently have court papers that say he cannot be alone with or drive them until agreed upon by both of us....he thinks he is ready - I'm scared to death. I have tried very hard to make my choices re: time with kids to have NOTHING to do with my emotional reaction to the situation but factual and in the best interest of the children's physical and emotional wellbeing. He is now able to be alone with them for short periods of time, but no overnights. I really think I need to have that line of knowing "when" he can drive them set in my mind....what have you all done?

lightseeker

I can understand your concern. I'd say "if in doubt, don't". What type of pain meds is he getting through his pump? Most pain medications (whether for a chronic condition or not) state that you should not drive when you are taking them.

I, for one, would never be able to forgive myself if something happened to my children when I knew that they were driving with someone that was under the influence of ANY mind altering substance.

I would need to see some kind of documentation from a doctor that said that it is safe for him to drive while he is taking his pain meds.

If it is unlikely that he will ever be free of pain meds have you thought of alternatives to his driving them?

Take care, Donna

Ann

I agree with Lightseeker, that one important thing to do would be to get his doctor's opinion, from him to you.

There are other questions I might want to consider...

Does he drive himself responsibly?

How far does he want to drive them?

Is he capable of making responsible decisions, like when he's having a bad pain day and may be unbalanced?

If you are not comfortable with your kids staying overnight, that suggests to me that perhaps he cannot stay responsible for long periods of time (and this may be due to his illness and not bad choices). If there are any times at all when driving could be dangerous, then I think the "no driving" rule should stick. Also, I believe in trusting our instinct, and yours seems to be screaming at you not to allow this.

Hugs

dollydo

All I can add is that, I spent many an hour in a car with my father, who was drinking and driving...it was a terrifying experience, one that I rememeber to this day. We were almost killed several times. And, all I could do is sit there and watch...I had no control, there was nothing I could do...

Trust your gut, don't let him manipulate him into making a bad decision.

Lia

I'm a total lurker, but I saw the title of your thread and felt compelled to jump in simply because I worked for a Neurologist/psychiatrist who treated chronic pain patients, many with long term opiods, including implantable pain pumps. I'm not an expert by any stretch. I myself am dealing with being separated, soon to be divorced, from my husband who is addicted to, and binges weekly on crack cocaine and I do NOT allow him to be alone with, nor drive with our kids (now 13 and 17).

However, while the rules and behaviors of addiction are very similar across the lines, the effects each user's drug of choice varies wildy. One poster before me suggested that you speak to your husband's doctor. THAT IS ESSENTIAL. If your husband feels he is ready to drive with your kids, he should be willing to allow communication between you and his doctor so that you may have a professional opinion on his sobriety level and driving ability. Long-term opiate use at the appropriate dosage titrated slowly to an efficacious level will not usually impair a person's driving ability. This is NOT the same scenario as someone who is not used to opiates driving on their prescribed vicodin after a root canal.

If possible, maybe a couple of weekly drug tests to determine that the level of drugs in your husbands system is consistent with the prescribes level. If he's using a pump, it is likely that a test like this is already being done since it is important from a medical perspective to ensure the pump is working properly.

The doc I worked for had many patients that used long-term opiates and most (insert standard "there are always exceptions" here) were fine driving. After using opiates the body accommodates. Unlike alcohol, pure pharmaceutical opiates used at prescribed levels cause no long-term end organ damage, and unlike street drugs, you know the dosage and quality.

With my husband, who is a crack binger, I wrote out that I would require weekly clean urine tests for at least 4 weeks, and then random whenever I felt like it before I would allow him to drive our kids anywhere. Not that it matters much anymore, since he has refused because I have "control issues". The kids aren't really interested in seeing him anyway. The truth is, he's more dangerous driving after a binge, when he's crashing, falling asleep constantly, and explosively angry, even though at that point a urine test would probably come up clean.

Good luck to you!!

Frog_2hop

Thanks so much for your replies. I tried in the past to include the doc. While he was still living here I had a plan that he would not drive until the he, the doc, and I all agree that the meds were at a safe and controlled level. After months of hard work on his part to wean down, me counting and handing out meds...we got there. His doc called me and we had a conference call to say that the time has come that he believed he was safe. I asked the question directly and he answered directly YES he is safe to drive. Because he was still on regular meds (just tons less), like always I clarified what he was on and what levels and even specifically asked, "and nothing else, right? Just this this and this?" he answered clearly...." yes this at this amount, this at this amount, this at this amount and nothing else." My husband came home and we went out to dinner to celebrate, he drove the kids home from the resturaunt. The next morning he woke up drugged out. That is when I grabbed the bags and finally left. That night he attempted suicide via taking too much meds. When in the hospital we searched the house and found bottle of other meds prescribed and filled by the doc the same day he told me he had nothing else. I turned him into the state but they did nothing. For a long time he didn't see this doc because he got the pain pump doc. That was part of the agreement for him to get the pump is that he would see no other docs. Well, eventually that doc refused services because my h demanded the levels and types of oral break through and the pump doc wouldn't give it to him. He found a new pump doc that allows him to get all the breakthrough from the doc I turned in. I think his new pump doc is 'fooled' by him and I don't trust the one giving him orals. He is now seeing psych that I think I like but he is 4 hours away and sees him rarely and only on days he is doing well enough to make the trip...he doesn't see the 'ugly'. I am thankful that I have court papers that support this. I wish recovery was more black and white, and more predictable.
I too have took the stance that if ANYTHING were to happen and I questioned the safety before allowing them to be in a car with him, I'd never be able to forgive myself. I've been a broken record that if I error, I will error on the side of safety. His sister now allows her children to ride in a car with him, be left with him for days at a time, and is increasing the pressure that I should too. She is the one that they stay with when he has them, the extra effort has landed on her. I have always 100% trusted her opinion. She is an awesome person with a very wise mind...that is why I question this...I just need to recheck my thoughts, balance my reasonings.

duet_4-8

I have to chime in here. My XAH is an opiate addict and one of my stipulations is that he cannot transport our youngest son anywhere. I am afraid to be in a car with him myself, much less to let my child in one.

I say go with your gut, especially if you can't trust the doc. Better safe than sorry.

((HUGS)))

Lia

Wow, Frog_2hop. I guess if you cannot trust the doc to be straight with you, nor your husband, then I would say the answer is right there. The doc I worked for was a "good guy" I guess. The folks who abused their meds and used them for the wrong reason's almost always were eventually weeded out. If chronic pain was still an issue as well as addiction, the diagnosis was adjusted, and methadone for pain management with maximum 7 days at a time RX's was offered, along with further counseling. If the patient said no thanks, it was bye bye. I was always impressed that even after being fooled by a few, the doc never left them hanging, dismissed them, or made them feel bad. He offered an alternative. Not all took it, but some did.

Anyway, I think your answer as far as driving is right there in front of you. I wouldn't allow my kids in the car with my husband under the circumstances you described for a whole lot longer. I would definitely want a longer time frame demonstrating stability.

Take care!