Responsibility for Newbies
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,622
Responsibility for Newbies
This is to no one in particular.
I am a messenger so please don't shoot me.
I have heard first hand that some of the comments on this site about AA are putting people off going to their first meeting and giving AA a try.
We have a need to be honest and seek help from each other and so we may need to discuss whether or not AA is for us, whether people there are nice in our eyes etc. This is legitimate discussion that should not be squashed I think. We all have our difficulties and these may include struggles in AA.
So we have a dilemna.
Before we post how awful it is for us, we could ask ourselves - if I post this, could it put someone off that could have been helped? Maybe it is not the fault of the fellowship that it is not working for us right now.
I would hate to think anyone needing help in recovery would decide not to try AA because they read something bad about it here. When I came here, I hated the thought of AA and if I had read negative stuff about it, I may never have gone to a meeting and I am pretty sure I would still be drinking. Someone suggested nicely that I give it a try and I was desperate so I went along.
We are told we should not solicit new AA members and so no one here does that I hope. On the other hand, let's not put people off before they have had a chance to try it.
In summary, we need to be careful not to put people off a possible recovery tool that has been shown to work.
As I said, this has been brought to my attention without me asking for it. I don't have the answers on how to deal with it so I have made some suggestions and I would really appreciate someone else taking it from here.
I am a messenger so please don't shoot me.
I have heard first hand that some of the comments on this site about AA are putting people off going to their first meeting and giving AA a try.
We have a need to be honest and seek help from each other and so we may need to discuss whether or not AA is for us, whether people there are nice in our eyes etc. This is legitimate discussion that should not be squashed I think. We all have our difficulties and these may include struggles in AA.
So we have a dilemna.
Before we post how awful it is for us, we could ask ourselves - if I post this, could it put someone off that could have been helped? Maybe it is not the fault of the fellowship that it is not working for us right now.
I would hate to think anyone needing help in recovery would decide not to try AA because they read something bad about it here. When I came here, I hated the thought of AA and if I had read negative stuff about it, I may never have gone to a meeting and I am pretty sure I would still be drinking. Someone suggested nicely that I give it a try and I was desperate so I went along.
We are told we should not solicit new AA members and so no one here does that I hope. On the other hand, let's not put people off before they have had a chance to try it.
In summary, we need to be careful not to put people off a possible recovery tool that has been shown to work.
As I said, this has been brought to my attention without me asking for it. I don't have the answers on how to deal with it so I have made some suggestions and I would really appreciate someone else taking it from here.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 49
IMHO
I'm glad this forum embraces everyone from every step of their recovery and people are allowed to express themselves, vent and ask questions. The support is unbelievable and the participation level is so awesome.And also any small tip from someone that might save for me another moment in sobriety. Hence, my curiosity about the vitamin therapy and drinking juice, tea, etc (instead of alkie hall) Any little thing that someone else has tried. Small moments add up into days.
I appreciate not having AA shoved down my throat when I come here (I would have left).I have tried AA and it is not for me. I'm always looking for others who have tried different methods and their experiences and trials. But.... I do think if you are serious about recovery and haven't on the first try hit on something that works---at least give AA a try. Go at least once or twice before you say that AA isn't for me. I went several times and did enjoy myself and the people there. It did show me that there are real life other people in my town who's struggles were like mine. If only for that knowledge (that you see and experience for yourself) it was worth going. And working the steps may be your way of keeping yourself on track.
Just my two cents.
I'm glad this forum embraces everyone from every step of their recovery and people are allowed to express themselves, vent and ask questions. The support is unbelievable and the participation level is so awesome.And also any small tip from someone that might save for me another moment in sobriety. Hence, my curiosity about the vitamin therapy and drinking juice, tea, etc (instead of alkie hall) Any little thing that someone else has tried. Small moments add up into days.
I appreciate not having AA shoved down my throat when I come here (I would have left).I have tried AA and it is not for me. I'm always looking for others who have tried different methods and their experiences and trials. But.... I do think if you are serious about recovery and haven't on the first try hit on something that works---at least give AA a try. Go at least once or twice before you say that AA isn't for me. I went several times and did enjoy myself and the people there. It did show me that there are real life other people in my town who's struggles were like mine. If only for that knowledge (that you see and experience for yourself) it was worth going. And working the steps may be your way of keeping yourself on track.
Just my two cents.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 666
I agree Pilgrim. For years I was one of the biggest AA haters around. Because I'm lazy this morning and can't think of anything new to say I'll only add something which I posted a few months back...
When I was in my early twenties and full of the infinite wisdom that consumes many of us in that deluded stage, my younger brother went to AA.
"That's crazy," I said. "It's a cult... they're fanatics... addicted to dogma.."
As I sat and pontificated from my barstool I told my fellow drunkards, "All he does is go to meetings."
A year later it was "All he does is go to meetings and back to school..." and then... "All he does is go to meetings and study abroad... hike the Rockies... buy a house...learn the guitar... travel to Ireland... that's all he does."
Me? I never left my barstool on Harvard Ave. Crazy AA fanatics! Dogmatics! Hey, maybe they've got something here.
"There is a principle which is a bar to all knowledge, that principle is contempt prior to investigation." or something like that - Herbert Spencer.
When I was in my early twenties and full of the infinite wisdom that consumes many of us in that deluded stage, my younger brother went to AA.
"That's crazy," I said. "It's a cult... they're fanatics... addicted to dogma.."
As I sat and pontificated from my barstool I told my fellow drunkards, "All he does is go to meetings."
A year later it was "All he does is go to meetings and back to school..." and then... "All he does is go to meetings and study abroad... hike the Rockies... buy a house...learn the guitar... travel to Ireland... that's all he does."
Me? I never left my barstool on Harvard Ave. Crazy AA fanatics! Dogmatics! Hey, maybe they've got something here.
"There is a principle which is a bar to all knowledge, that principle is contempt prior to investigation." or something like that - Herbert Spencer.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,497
Hi Pilgrim,
SR offers many different recovery programs to people and they can read and choose what they think will work best for them. Many members use AA but there are other methods of recovery that are discussed as well.
I do believe that honesty is the most important part of recovery - honesty with ourselves and honesty with others. If we share what we know, then we will be doing our best to help the newcomers.
Recovery is not easy. It's very difficult and it takes a lot of motivation. I think that is the picture that we paint her in our posts. Mainly, I think we try to show newcomers that there is hope.
SR offers many different recovery programs to people and they can read and choose what they think will work best for them. Many members use AA but there are other methods of recovery that are discussed as well.
I do believe that honesty is the most important part of recovery - honesty with ourselves and honesty with others. If we share what we know, then we will be doing our best to help the newcomers.
Recovery is not easy. It's very difficult and it takes a lot of motivation. I think that is the picture that we paint her in our posts. Mainly, I think we try to show newcomers that there is hope.
Lurker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Western NC
Posts: 783
I was kinda of on AA when I got here, but some gentle pushing from some folks around here I went. I think with out it I would be drinking by now. I admit I have had a few not so geat expierences in AA, but I may have a part of that my self.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 557
All I know is that I can only tell it how it was for me, Warts and all. Today I am honest and its that honesty that keeps me sober. If I don't lie to anyone else about my drinking then I won't lie to myself about it either, when we share our stories with people it's purpose is two fold. We not only let people know where we fell so as they may not , but in doing so we remind ourselves of the old way of life so as we don't slip back either.
In regard of protecting the newcomer to Sober Recovery, we were all new here once and if we didn't like what it offerd us, we only had to click off. It's the same with AA, some shares are horrific and on hearing them the newcomer could run a mile. Isn't it better for somebody to get a true insight into AA meetings before commiting all there faith in going to AA and being devestated by not finding the miracle cure they sort.
I for one went to AA for 18mths without getting the message they offered, coming away thinking there was no hope left for me. Then thankfuly I came upon Sober Recovery where I found out that I wasn't the only one that had been disenchanted by AA. But by reading honest posts it actualy renewed my faith in AA and I now reattend meetings and havn't drunk for three months. I now have a chance of living life to the full, something that I thought impossible before.
But I am teachable so if someone can convince me that honesty isn't the best policy then I will change again.
chris
In regard of protecting the newcomer to Sober Recovery, we were all new here once and if we didn't like what it offerd us, we only had to click off. It's the same with AA, some shares are horrific and on hearing them the newcomer could run a mile. Isn't it better for somebody to get a true insight into AA meetings before commiting all there faith in going to AA and being devestated by not finding the miracle cure they sort.
I for one went to AA for 18mths without getting the message they offered, coming away thinking there was no hope left for me. Then thankfuly I came upon Sober Recovery where I found out that I wasn't the only one that had been disenchanted by AA. But by reading honest posts it actualy renewed my faith in AA and I now reattend meetings and havn't drunk for three months. I now have a chance of living life to the full, something that I thought impossible before.
But I am teachable so if someone can convince me that honesty isn't the best policy then I will change again.
chris
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 21
Part of going to meetings, posting on message boards, etc, is ti find commonalities with other people. The principles of AA did not click with me, and it was nice to find people that had quit drinking and felt the same way. I have never "bashed" AA, but I cannot connect with their principles. That is just the way it is, and I think it is more important to be honest than worry about the slim possiblility that it might scare someone away.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 595
Perhaps, and Ann maybe you could hep us here, there might be a thread created here called "Various types of support for recovery." Then some website could be posted within that have to do with the different types of recovery that have helped people. That way, people would get a good cross section of what types of programs are available.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
I am for any recovery program that helps anyone..........
The program you are in, may not be for me.
The program I am in may not be for you.....
If you need a program, get one, if you don't great...
I think that the important point is this...
All studies of significant importance state the same thing.
People that commit to some type of on going recovery program, counseling, and or a 12 step kind (theres many of them) has higher percentages of long
term sobriety, than someone that gets dry and does nothing else.
Hugs to all my freinds in recovery, hope3
The program you are in, may not be for me.
The program I am in may not be for you.....
If you need a program, get one, if you don't great...
I think that the important point is this...
All studies of significant importance state the same thing.
People that commit to some type of on going recovery program, counseling, and or a 12 step kind (theres many of them) has higher percentages of long
term sobriety, than someone that gets dry and does nothing else.
Hugs to all my freinds in recovery, hope3
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 98
How appropos that you would create this thread now, Steph, as I was recently discussing this very dilemma with another SR member.
I am not an AA participant and I have only shown the utmost respect for those who are, and for the program itself. I maintain that respect and acknowledge AA (and NA) as a proven, useful, tried-and-true vehicle of recovery.
On a few occasions, however, I have felt that some non-AA'ers...a few of my own posts included...have been greeted with an underlying message to the effect of, "You're not part of our AA group, you wouldn't understand!" Maybe they are right, maybe I don't understand. Maybe I DO understand, but my understanding lies within a different conceptual framework.
I liken the situation to some religious zealots (NO! I am NOT comparing AA to religion!) who claim that the ONLY path to God is through such-and-such religion. I am an athiest with a Jewish upbringing, and I observe several Jewish traditions for non-religious reasons (e.g. respect and rememberance of my ancestors, recognizing that some traditions build closer and stronger family bonds, etc). Some Jews would kick me out of their "club," claiming that because I don't participate in prayer, I cannot rightfully call myself a Jew.
On a similar note, I have gained insight into life from other religions: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. I have chosen not to become a member of their "clubs," but that doesn't imply that I reject their practices and preachings as "wrong" or misleading. Nor would I ever make that claim. (I'm cocky sometimes, but not arrogant).
How this relates to my experiences with SR: I came here looking for alternative (viz, non-strictly-AA) support for overcoming my alcoholism. I have gained heaps of wisdom and understanding from the perspectives of both AA and non-AA practitioners. I am VERY interested in what AA has to say about recovery, but it can be off-putting to read a suggestion that the AA way is the ONLY way (I am interested in Jewish traditions but I am not interested in attending synagogue every Saturday morning. I believe that Muhammed was brilliant, but I do not attend evening Muslim prayers, etc.).
I have read a few posts here where someone has said, "AA is not for me." When I read a reply to the effect of, "If AA isn't for you, then you haven't tried it," I am moved to liken that suggestion to religious fundamentalism. When an AA partipant recently accused me, without clarification, of delivering a "mixed message," I felt that same misgiving that I feel when a religious zealot says, "You haven't let our God into your heart, you'll never understand."
Yes, tell me the AA perspective! We can all learn from it! But please respect those of us who are finding non-AA routes to recovery.
Earl
I am not an AA participant and I have only shown the utmost respect for those who are, and for the program itself. I maintain that respect and acknowledge AA (and NA) as a proven, useful, tried-and-true vehicle of recovery.
On a few occasions, however, I have felt that some non-AA'ers...a few of my own posts included...have been greeted with an underlying message to the effect of, "You're not part of our AA group, you wouldn't understand!" Maybe they are right, maybe I don't understand. Maybe I DO understand, but my understanding lies within a different conceptual framework.
I liken the situation to some religious zealots (NO! I am NOT comparing AA to religion!) who claim that the ONLY path to God is through such-and-such religion. I am an athiest with a Jewish upbringing, and I observe several Jewish traditions for non-religious reasons (e.g. respect and rememberance of my ancestors, recognizing that some traditions build closer and stronger family bonds, etc). Some Jews would kick me out of their "club," claiming that because I don't participate in prayer, I cannot rightfully call myself a Jew.
On a similar note, I have gained insight into life from other religions: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. I have chosen not to become a member of their "clubs," but that doesn't imply that I reject their practices and preachings as "wrong" or misleading. Nor would I ever make that claim. (I'm cocky sometimes, but not arrogant).
How this relates to my experiences with SR: I came here looking for alternative (viz, non-strictly-AA) support for overcoming my alcoholism. I have gained heaps of wisdom and understanding from the perspectives of both AA and non-AA practitioners. I am VERY interested in what AA has to say about recovery, but it can be off-putting to read a suggestion that the AA way is the ONLY way (I am interested in Jewish traditions but I am not interested in attending synagogue every Saturday morning. I believe that Muhammed was brilliant, but I do not attend evening Muslim prayers, etc.).
I have read a few posts here where someone has said, "AA is not for me." When I read a reply to the effect of, "If AA isn't for you, then you haven't tried it," I am moved to liken that suggestion to religious fundamentalism. When an AA partipant recently accused me, without clarification, of delivering a "mixed message," I felt that same misgiving that I feel when a religious zealot says, "You haven't let our God into your heart, you'll never understand."
Yes, tell me the AA perspective! We can all learn from it! But please respect those of us who are finding non-AA routes to recovery.
Earl
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 595
earl,
how eloquent you are in stating your experience. i have the utmost respect for you and your beliefs. i am so sorry that sometimes aa is represented by closed-minded people. i know for myself, have been going to aa for almost 21 years, that i have run into the aa police many times and it's very disheartening. one of statements in aa is that it is very broad and all inclusive. however, not to be suggesting any religious affiliation, when i hear those people talk, it reminds me of some of the religious zealots around here in tennessee. i'm sure you've heard of the 'bible belt." well this is the "buckle of the belt." how common it is around here for someone to invite you to their church, only to find out that if you don't adhere to their dogma, you probably aren't going to go to heaven. funny, there are so many different versions of religions down here that if any of their ravings were true, heaven would be a very lonly place.
you may or may not have run into "HistoryTeach" on sr. she hangs out in the secular forum and i believe that she is jewish.
i always enjoy what you post earl, and again, tolerance and acceptance is what aa members should be striving for. if they are not, then i myself would question whether they truly are following directions.
Have a great day. i've got to cut the grass. down her in tennessee, spring has definitely sprung.
yours in friendship,
Ed
how eloquent you are in stating your experience. i have the utmost respect for you and your beliefs. i am so sorry that sometimes aa is represented by closed-minded people. i know for myself, have been going to aa for almost 21 years, that i have run into the aa police many times and it's very disheartening. one of statements in aa is that it is very broad and all inclusive. however, not to be suggesting any religious affiliation, when i hear those people talk, it reminds me of some of the religious zealots around here in tennessee. i'm sure you've heard of the 'bible belt." well this is the "buckle of the belt." how common it is around here for someone to invite you to their church, only to find out that if you don't adhere to their dogma, you probably aren't going to go to heaven. funny, there are so many different versions of religions down here that if any of their ravings were true, heaven would be a very lonly place.
you may or may not have run into "HistoryTeach" on sr. she hangs out in the secular forum and i believe that she is jewish.
i always enjoy what you post earl, and again, tolerance and acceptance is what aa members should be striving for. if they are not, then i myself would question whether they truly are following directions.
Have a great day. i've got to cut the grass. down her in tennessee, spring has definitely sprung.
yours in friendship,
Ed
Hope3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 2,155
Uncleearl, I've got to share with you what your statement
about Qoute earl: I have read a few posts here where someone has said, "AA is not for me." When I read a reply to the effect of, "If AA isn't for you, then you haven't tried it," I am moved to liken that suggestion to religious fundamentalism.
reminded me of when I came out of the closet 30 something years ago. I was told by both men and women that I wasn't gay, I just hadn't been with the right man yet.
I found it funny thenm and still do...
I only wish all people, of all walks of life and beliefs a great recovery...
Hope3
about Qoute earl: I have read a few posts here where someone has said, "AA is not for me." When I read a reply to the effect of, "If AA isn't for you, then you haven't tried it," I am moved to liken that suggestion to religious fundamentalism.
reminded me of when I came out of the closet 30 something years ago. I was told by both men and women that I wasn't gay, I just hadn't been with the right man yet.
I found it funny thenm and still do...
I only wish all people, of all walks of life and beliefs a great recovery...
Hope3
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto Ontario
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by hope3 
reminded me of when I came out of the closet 30 something years ago. I was told by both men and women that I wasn't gay, I just hadn't been with the right man yet.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 24
Steph-that's a great sentiment. Something like what you described happened to my father who is an alcoholic. When he was in his 20's/30's, my mother begged him to go to AA and seek help. Because of the things he had heard about it and some people he had been around that had been/were in it that were disparaging, he never went, and wrote it off as a bunch of cultist and religious zealots. He only became sober in 1996 when he had to have a liver transplant due to his drinking. He wasted the majority of his adult life drinking or sleeping it off. As a result he's painted himself into a very small corner and now he's 62. My mother died in 1984, and never got to enjoy my father sober, ever since they were in high school together. I had to grow up the only child of a drunk, etc.... I only wish he could have experienced what I was able to at age 35, and wonder what his life would have turned out to be had he gone to AA, and so does he now that I've done it and explained it's not ALL like it had been portrayed.
Also, I don't believe someone has to completely immerse themselves in the AA "culture" to benefit from it's ideas and become/stay sober. Personally, a lot of it is a turn-off for me, too. BUT, I know all about it, have read everything I can on it, go to meetings as I feel needed, and participate in it's tenets as needed, and consult the big book as warranted. AA is what made me and has kept me sober for over two years and it keeps me focused. But I have never had a sponsor, nor worked the steps. I get a LOT of heat for that from some AAers, and am told I'm pushing my luck, and get the tsk tsk look. So be it.
Also, I don't believe someone has to completely immerse themselves in the AA "culture" to benefit from it's ideas and become/stay sober. Personally, a lot of it is a turn-off for me, too. BUT, I know all about it, have read everything I can on it, go to meetings as I feel needed, and participate in it's tenets as needed, and consult the big book as warranted. AA is what made me and has kept me sober for over two years and it keeps me focused. But I have never had a sponsor, nor worked the steps. I get a LOT of heat for that from some AAers, and am told I'm pushing my luck, and get the tsk tsk look. So be it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 666
Hey Lost Sailor,
That was a good post. I love AA, it saved my life, but I have sometimes had difficulty with the culture. A kind of weird twist... in my neighborhood I have received some flack and head shaking not for ignoring the steps, but for immersing myself in them. The local guys do not approve of Big Book Step Study and are not hesitant to share that it is some sort of strange departure from AA, and not how it should be done. That being said... these same guys have and would save my bacon anytime... anyplace, even if I am a "BB thumper (I'm really not)." That's kind of cool.
Mike
That was a good post. I love AA, it saved my life, but I have sometimes had difficulty with the culture. A kind of weird twist... in my neighborhood I have received some flack and head shaking not for ignoring the steps, but for immersing myself in them. The local guys do not approve of Big Book Step Study and are not hesitant to share that it is some sort of strange departure from AA, and not how it should be done. That being said... these same guys have and would save my bacon anytime... anyplace, even if I am a "BB thumper (I'm really not)." That's kind of cool.
Mike
Inspired
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 143
They aren't called self-help meetings for nothing! People with a longer time in recovery than me say "keep coming back and keep getting your medicine." If it weren't for my weekend meetings, the weekends would be VERY difficult for me. Newcomers don't believe that going to meetings makes it EASIER to not use. Geez stop being so hard on yourself!!!
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Originally Posted by Golfman
Perhaps, and Ann maybe you could hep us here, there might be a thread created here called "Various types of support for recovery." Then some website could be posted within that have to do with the different types of recovery that have helped people. That way, people would get a good cross section of what types of programs are available.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
It is a list of recovery programs. Personally, I work a secular recovery and you will find me over on the secular forums with history teach
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