electric shock therapy
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 13
electric shock therapy
Well, its another day in recovery so im thankful for that! and as always just another question, has anyone here ever had electric shock therapy, just wondering if that helps our dopamine receptors or help those with depression/bi-polar. Ill ask my doctor but just seeing if anyone here has had that. Thanks and just one day at a time right :-)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 13
i know this article is long but i really think most of us recovering addicts have some depression , i dont want to generalize but alot of us just dont feel good and the antidepressants we may take dont do that much but keep us stable. we want to feel good again! well heres this relatively new article and maybe ill get the implant. i dont really want to take antidepressants/bi-polar medicine ALL my life, i want to try something else. ill ask my doctor, not sure if even my insurance company would cover an implant. im not set on any of this, just im printing all these articles on electric shock, baclofen, topamax and taking them to my doctor. here's one on electric shock.
The next generation of electric-shock therapy
Tuesday, October 18, 2005
By Jane Spencer, The Wall Street Journal
To treat severe cases of depression and other mental illnesses, researchers are developing new ways of employing an old solution: electricity.
A new generation of medical devices is being developed that aim to modify mood and behavior by sending mild doses of electricity into the brain. The treatments -- which include large electromagnets placed on the scalp as well as implanted devices -- are different from the familiar shock therapy that has been in use for decades. With lower, more-targeted doses of electricity, researchers say these methods have the potential to transform treatment for a range of mental illnesses, including depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder.
Most of the treatments are still in the experimental stages, and some pose serious health risks. Only one has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, with a number of other methods in clinical trials. And they are so far being studied only for patients who have exhausted traditional treatments such as drugs and therapy.
But the potential market for the devices is huge. Roughly 15 percent to 25 percent of depressed patients -- about three million to five million Americans -- don't improve with antidepressants or can't tolerate the side effects, such as nausea. Those patients alone could represent a potential $5 billion annual market for device manufacturers, according to Thomas Gunderson, a health-care analyst at Piper Jaffray. A significant portion of patients with obsessive compulsive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder also don't respond to existing treatment.
Since the 1940s, psychiatrists have recognized that electricity aimed at the brain can cause radical shifts in mood. But early depression treatments like shock therapy -- technically known as electroconvulsive therapy -- fell out of favor in the 1970s, due to the extreme side effects. The treatment, which induces a seizure, can cause permanent memory loss.
Electroconvulsive therapy has had a resurgence over the past decade, using lower doses of electricity. But it still produces significant cognitive side effects, so researchers have continued to seek alternatives.
Now, the National Institutes of Health and device companies like Medtronic Inc., Neuronetics and Cyberonics Inc. are testing new technologies. Unlike shock therapy, most of the newer treatments don't cause seizures because they use milder doses of electricity aimed at more-precise targets in the brain.
One method, an implanted pacemaker-like device made by Cyberonics, has been approved to treat severe depression, and is now on the market. The stopwatch-size gadget is implanted in the chest and delivers pulses of electricity to the left vagus nerve in the neck, which some physicians believe may be connected to mood centers in the brain.
The device and implantation surgery cost $20,000 to $25,000. Side effects can include hoarseness of the voice.
Medtronic, Boston Scientific and Advanced Neuromodulation Systems are each studying "deep brain stimulation," which involves drilling holes in the skull and implanting tiny electrodes in precise spots in the brain associated with depression or obsessive-compulsive disorder. The electrodes connect to pacemaker-like devices in the chest that fire electrical pulses to the brain. Medtronic says it hopes its treatment could be approved to treat intractable cases of OCD in the next six months; approval for depression is further away.
Deep brain stimulation, which costs anywhere from $20,000 to $100,000 for the device and implantation surgery, requires serious brain surgery, which can cause hemorrhage and stroke.
Other potential treatments include "transcranial magnetic stimulation," which is being studied for intractable depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. A large magnetic coil is placed on the patient's forehead, and an electric current creates a magnetic field that travels into a region of the brain that may be linked to emotion. Patients in trials typically get 10 to 20 treatment sessions.
A small number of patients report mild headaches. Some researchers estimate the cost per treatment will be comparable to a psychotherapy session.
Dozens of clinical trials on TMS are under way, including studies by Neuronetics and a nationwide 240-patient depression trial run by the National Institute of Mental Health. The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is funding studies for post-traumatic stress disorder and severe depression, and researchers at the New York State Psychiatric Institute, including Sarah H. Lisanby, are testing it for OCD and depression. Initial studies in severely depressed patients indicate TMS was moderately helpful to about 30 percent of patients, versus about 10 percent of people getting a placebo treatment.
Doctors don't fully understand how electricity modifies mood, but brain scans suggest that patients with severe psychiatric problems may have abnormal electrical activity in certain regions of the brain. With electricity, doctors can modulate the neural activity to restore normal function. Electricity can also trigger the release of neurotransmitters related to mood.
"Basically, we're treating disease by rewiring the brain," says Dr. Ali Rezai, director of functional neurosurgery at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation
Some of the new methods were initially used to treat motor-control problems associated with Parkinson's disease and epilepsy. Cyberonics' vagus nerve stimulator, for instance, was approved in 1997 to treat patients with epilepsy, but Cyberonics began studying it for depression after some patients reported mood improvements.
The recent FDA approval generated some controversy. One short-term study showed little difference between the VNS treatment and a control group receiving a sham, placebo treatment. Data published more recently suggests that over a two-year period, the device helped about 20 percent of treatment-resistant depression patients significantly reduce depression. But the longer study didn't include a control group.
For some patients with debilitating illnesses, even the riskiest treatments seem worth a try. Kelly Lynn Fahrenkrug, 35, of Rapid City, Iowa, has obsessive-compulsive disorder that became so severe she rarely left her house.
Medications didn't help, so Ms. Fahrenkrug registered for a deep-brain-stimulation trial sponsored by the NIMH at the University of Florida. The doctors drilled two nickel-sized holes in her skull and used tiny robotic devices to implant electrodes deep inside her brain. The electrodes were connected to wires that ran down under the skin of her neck and connected to two pacemakers in her chest.
Ms. Fahrenkrug says her life changed the moment the device was turned on. Nevertheless, she needs minor surgery at least once a year to get the batteries changed, and she has had some side effects, including occasional twitching in her legs.
Targeting the Brain
New therapies target the brain with electricity to treat psychiatric problems. Information on clinical trials for many of these treatments is available at clinicaltrials.gov.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Deep Brain Stimulation; Medtronic, Advanced Neuromodulation Systems
DESCRIPTION: Tiny electrodes are implanted inside the brain, and connect to a pacemaker in the chest.
COMMENT: Being tested for severe depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Magnetic Seizure Therapy; Magstim
DESCRIPTION A powerful electromagnet is placed on the scalp, triggering a seizure. General anesthesia is required.
COMMENT: Being tested as an alternative for treatment-resistant depression. Not yet approved.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation; Neuronetics, Magstim
DESCRIPTION An electromagnetic coil placed on the scalp triggers mild electrical activity in the brain.
COMMENT: Not yet approved, but clinical trials are under way.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Vagus Nerve Stimulation; Cyberonics
DESCRIPTION A pacemaker implanted in the chest delivers mild electrical pulses to the vagus nerve in the neck.
COMMENT:Approved for epilepsy and treatment-resistant depression.
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The next generation of electric-shock therapy
Tuesday, October 18, 2005
By Jane Spencer, The Wall Street Journal
To treat severe cases of depression and other mental illnesses, researchers are developing new ways of employing an old solution: electricity.
A new generation of medical devices is being developed that aim to modify mood and behavior by sending mild doses of electricity into the brain. The treatments -- which include large electromagnets placed on the scalp as well as implanted devices -- are different from the familiar shock therapy that has been in use for decades. With lower, more-targeted doses of electricity, researchers say these methods have the potential to transform treatment for a range of mental illnesses, including depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder.
Most of the treatments are still in the experimental stages, and some pose serious health risks. Only one has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration, with a number of other methods in clinical trials. And they are so far being studied only for patients who have exhausted traditional treatments such as drugs and therapy.
But the potential market for the devices is huge. Roughly 15 percent to 25 percent of depressed patients -- about three million to five million Americans -- don't improve with antidepressants or can't tolerate the side effects, such as nausea. Those patients alone could represent a potential $5 billion annual market for device manufacturers, according to Thomas Gunderson, a health-care analyst at Piper Jaffray. A significant portion of patients with obsessive compulsive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder also don't respond to existing treatment.
Since the 1940s, psychiatrists have recognized that electricity aimed at the brain can cause radical shifts in mood. But early depression treatments like shock therapy -- technically known as electroconvulsive therapy -- fell out of favor in the 1970s, due to the extreme side effects. The treatment, which induces a seizure, can cause permanent memory loss.
Electroconvulsive therapy has had a resurgence over the past decade, using lower doses of electricity. But it still produces significant cognitive side effects, so researchers have continued to seek alternatives.
Now, the National Institutes of Health and device companies like Medtronic Inc., Neuronetics and Cyberonics Inc. are testing new technologies. Unlike shock therapy, most of the newer treatments don't cause seizures because they use milder doses of electricity aimed at more-precise targets in the brain.
One method, an implanted pacemaker-like device made by Cyberonics, has been approved to treat severe depression, and is now on the market. The stopwatch-size gadget is implanted in the chest and delivers pulses of electricity to the left vagus nerve in the neck, which some physicians believe may be connected to mood centers in the brain.
The device and implantation surgery cost $20,000 to $25,000. Side effects can include hoarseness of the voice.
Medtronic, Boston Scientific and Advanced Neuromodulation Systems are each studying "deep brain stimulation," which involves drilling holes in the skull and implanting tiny electrodes in precise spots in the brain associated with depression or obsessive-compulsive disorder. The electrodes connect to pacemaker-like devices in the chest that fire electrical pulses to the brain. Medtronic says it hopes its treatment could be approved to treat intractable cases of OCD in the next six months; approval for depression is further away.
Deep brain stimulation, which costs anywhere from $20,000 to $100,000 for the device and implantation surgery, requires serious brain surgery, which can cause hemorrhage and stroke.
Other potential treatments include "transcranial magnetic stimulation," which is being studied for intractable depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. A large magnetic coil is placed on the patient's forehead, and an electric current creates a magnetic field that travels into a region of the brain that may be linked to emotion. Patients in trials typically get 10 to 20 treatment sessions.
A small number of patients report mild headaches. Some researchers estimate the cost per treatment will be comparable to a psychotherapy session.
Dozens of clinical trials on TMS are under way, including studies by Neuronetics and a nationwide 240-patient depression trial run by the National Institute of Mental Health. The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is funding studies for post-traumatic stress disorder and severe depression, and researchers at the New York State Psychiatric Institute, including Sarah H. Lisanby, are testing it for OCD and depression. Initial studies in severely depressed patients indicate TMS was moderately helpful to about 30 percent of patients, versus about 10 percent of people getting a placebo treatment.
Doctors don't fully understand how electricity modifies mood, but brain scans suggest that patients with severe psychiatric problems may have abnormal electrical activity in certain regions of the brain. With electricity, doctors can modulate the neural activity to restore normal function. Electricity can also trigger the release of neurotransmitters related to mood.
"Basically, we're treating disease by rewiring the brain," says Dr. Ali Rezai, director of functional neurosurgery at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation
Some of the new methods were initially used to treat motor-control problems associated with Parkinson's disease and epilepsy. Cyberonics' vagus nerve stimulator, for instance, was approved in 1997 to treat patients with epilepsy, but Cyberonics began studying it for depression after some patients reported mood improvements.
The recent FDA approval generated some controversy. One short-term study showed little difference between the VNS treatment and a control group receiving a sham, placebo treatment. Data published more recently suggests that over a two-year period, the device helped about 20 percent of treatment-resistant depression patients significantly reduce depression. But the longer study didn't include a control group.
For some patients with debilitating illnesses, even the riskiest treatments seem worth a try. Kelly Lynn Fahrenkrug, 35, of Rapid City, Iowa, has obsessive-compulsive disorder that became so severe she rarely left her house.
Medications didn't help, so Ms. Fahrenkrug registered for a deep-brain-stimulation trial sponsored by the NIMH at the University of Florida. The doctors drilled two nickel-sized holes in her skull and used tiny robotic devices to implant electrodes deep inside her brain. The electrodes were connected to wires that ran down under the skin of her neck and connected to two pacemakers in her chest.
Ms. Fahrenkrug says her life changed the moment the device was turned on. Nevertheless, she needs minor surgery at least once a year to get the batteries changed, and she has had some side effects, including occasional twitching in her legs.
Targeting the Brain
New therapies target the brain with electricity to treat psychiatric problems. Information on clinical trials for many of these treatments is available at clinicaltrials.gov.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Deep Brain Stimulation; Medtronic, Advanced Neuromodulation Systems
DESCRIPTION: Tiny electrodes are implanted inside the brain, and connect to a pacemaker in the chest.
COMMENT: Being tested for severe depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Magnetic Seizure Therapy; Magstim
DESCRIPTION A powerful electromagnet is placed on the scalp, triggering a seizure. General anesthesia is required.
COMMENT: Being tested as an alternative for treatment-resistant depression. Not yet approved.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation; Neuronetics, Magstim
DESCRIPTION An electromagnetic coil placed on the scalp triggers mild electrical activity in the brain.
COMMENT: Not yet approved, but clinical trials are under way.
TREATMENT/COMPANIES: Vagus Nerve Stimulation; Cyberonics
DESCRIPTION A pacemaker implanted in the chest delivers mild electrical pulses to the vagus nerve in the neck.
COMMENT:Approved for epilepsy and treatment-resistant depression.
E-mail this story Print this story
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Sewickley $875,000 1554 Alaqua Dr. Beautiful...
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Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Joe, this may sound hypocritical coming from someone who was chemically altered for about 4/5ths of her life....but, please, be careful what you let others do to your brain. Dude, it's the only one you've got!
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Peace & Love,
Sugah
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,789
Originally Posted by Sugah 
Joe, this may sound hypocritical coming from someone who was chemically altered for about 4/5ths of her life....but, please, be careful what you let others do to your brain. Dude, it's the only one you've got!
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Peace & Love,
Sugah
As an active addict for 24 years and having had this done to me against my will, I would say Sugah's advice are pearls on your screen.
Kevin
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 13
nogard, yea the elctric shock therapy might be dangerous but what about the vagus nerve stimulator implant from cyberonics? it says its a low level current.i just dont want to be on meds all my life and i feel bloated alot from them.
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,789
I dunno. I would get advice from a Dr I had confidence in and get non-professional advice as well. In fact I would not do it, but then thats me.
Seems to me they where using EST for depression way back in the 60's with very little success, unless you counted trurning someone into a zombioe a success, has that changed?
I will be thinking of you.
Kevin
Seems to me they where using EST for depression way back in the 60's with very little success, unless you counted trurning someone into a zombioe a success, has that changed?
I will be thinking of you.
Kevin
IO Storm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 18,436
I will reply to you carefully. My mother in law had ECT several times for severe manic episodes. I saw no long term positive effect. She liked the manic feelings, stopped her meds, and eventually died years ago in a psychotic state ( heart attack). It was so sad. She was a brilliant woman.
When I was in treatment (alcohol, barbiturates,suicidal depression), a friend I met there underwent ECT twice during my stay. She came out happy as a clam, showed her b---- to everyone, and could not remember her husband or children for a few days. The day she left treatment, she planned to use that night.
I am bipolar Type I, newly diagnosed. It has been hard, but I have followed my Dr.'s instructions diligently. No, I don't have to. I want to not just feel better, I want to get well, and continue to recover.
Good luck to you.
When I was in treatment (alcohol, barbiturates,suicidal depression), a friend I met there underwent ECT twice during my stay. She came out happy as a clam, showed her b---- to everyone, and could not remember her husband or children for a few days. The day she left treatment, she planned to use that night.
I am bipolar Type I, newly diagnosed. It has been hard, but I have followed my Dr.'s instructions diligently. No, I don't have to. I want to not just feel better, I want to get well, and continue to recover.
Good luck to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 13
well, i know this is my problem and that im just asking too new of treatments like the topamax, baclofen, and antabuse for my coke addict. and the vagus nerve stimulator implant thing for depression, etc. I just feel hopeless sometimes and i cant get the answers i want but i do thank everyone here for all the encouragement and compassion
IO Storm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 18,436
Okay.
I just started Topamax. But I was confirmed by 4 psychiatrists and my MD. You, see, joe, I did not want to accept BiP because of my prior experience as related.
Once I accepted my diagnosis as I have my addictions.
(dual diagnosis), I asked for help and was ready to do whatever was asked to get well. You and I did not get so sick overnight, and will not not get well (short of a miracle,
which is possible), overnight. I abused amphetamines for years in the form of diet pills and fooled myself into thinking I was different from the clients I was helping.
I am a Child Welfare Social Worker. It is hard to slow down
after your mind has been racing for years. Very hard. It takes....time.
I am pulling for you. I sense you truly are reaching out for help.
Stay with us.
Love,
IO
I just started Topamax. But I was confirmed by 4 psychiatrists and my MD. You, see, joe, I did not want to accept BiP because of my prior experience as related.
Once I accepted my diagnosis as I have my addictions.
(dual diagnosis), I asked for help and was ready to do whatever was asked to get well. You and I did not get so sick overnight, and will not not get well (short of a miracle,
which is possible), overnight. I abused amphetamines for years in the form of diet pills and fooled myself into thinking I was different from the clients I was helping.
I am a Child Welfare Social Worker. It is hard to slow down
after your mind has been racing for years. Very hard. It takes....time.
I am pulling for you. I sense you truly are reaching out for help.
Stay with us.
Love,
IO
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Joe, I see you're from Pittsburgh. There's awesome AA in your area!
I was looking back through your previous posts, as I see you haven't been here very long and I'm not familiar with your story. We are sooo impatient, we addicts! I was a garbage head, changing my DOC many times over the span of twenty-five years. Coke was a major player for more than seven years of the later part of my using life, as well as "recreational" from my early teens on.
Each time I switched addictions, it was to try to solve the problems and consequences of the previous DOC. I was "treated" for addiction many times with psychotropic drugs. Now, I'm not saying that their use isn't crucial for certain people; I know many people in recovery who have accepted that they needed medications in order to live normal lives.
But, if we resort to them too early in recovery, we don't find out how well our bodies and minds will heal themselves. I suffered from depression for years. I was treated with medication from the time I was seventeen. Of course it didn't work -- I was still using! And I chose to forgo that route upon getting clean until I tried non-medication methods. For me, the process of working the 12 steps cleared the depression, the guilt, the shame, the horrible remorse of my actions, and the constant anger from my life. I have normal, healthy emotions today.
There is no miracle drug to fix an addict.
The above is merely my experience...as well as the experiences that many have shared with me.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
(Go, Penns!)
I was looking back through your previous posts, as I see you haven't been here very long and I'm not familiar with your story. We are sooo impatient, we addicts! I was a garbage head, changing my DOC many times over the span of twenty-five years. Coke was a major player for more than seven years of the later part of my using life, as well as "recreational" from my early teens on.
Each time I switched addictions, it was to try to solve the problems and consequences of the previous DOC. I was "treated" for addiction many times with psychotropic drugs. Now, I'm not saying that their use isn't crucial for certain people; I know many people in recovery who have accepted that they needed medications in order to live normal lives.
But, if we resort to them too early in recovery, we don't find out how well our bodies and minds will heal themselves. I suffered from depression for years. I was treated with medication from the time I was seventeen. Of course it didn't work -- I was still using! And I chose to forgo that route upon getting clean until I tried non-medication methods. For me, the process of working the 12 steps cleared the depression, the guilt, the shame, the horrible remorse of my actions, and the constant anger from my life. I have normal, healthy emotions today.
There is no miracle drug to fix an addict.
The above is merely my experience...as well as the experiences that many have shared with me.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
(Go, Penns!)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 13
Thanks Sugah for your experience
but I guess my reasonings are different
you said "But, if we resort to them too early in recovery, we don't find out how well our bodies and minds will heal themselves. I suffered from depression for years" See i feel that if we have the gene for depression, its medication and behavioral therapy that will help. AA is about feeling powerless over your addiction and relying on a higher power, neither which makes logical sense to me as i am atheist and I will not be powerless as I am fighting it through this board, my doctors, family , and those which care about me, etc.
keep on keeping on in recovery :-)
Joe
but I guess my reasonings are different
you said "But, if we resort to them too early in recovery, we don't find out how well our bodies and minds will heal themselves. I suffered from depression for years" See i feel that if we have the gene for depression, its medication and behavioral therapy that will help. AA is about feeling powerless over your addiction and relying on a higher power, neither which makes logical sense to me as i am atheist and I will not be powerless as I am fighting it through this board, my doctors, family , and those which care about me, etc.
keep on keeping on in recovery :-)
Joe
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
Announcer: You've just had a heavy session of electroshock therapy, and you're more relaxed than you've been in weeks. [Patient climbs into bed] All those childhood traumas magically wiped away, along with most of your personality. Now is the time, time for Spud. [Nurse wheels in bucket with cans of Spud Beer]
Singers: Ohhhhh, Spud!
Announcer: Filled with the full, rich flavor of potatoes. [Patients begin smiling] Spud, the beer brewed for people who can't taste the difference.
Singers: Ohhhhh, Spud!
Announcer: Filled with the full, rich flavor of potatoes. [Patients begin smiling] Spud, the beer brewed for people who can't taste the difference.
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