I need help
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 5
I need help
This is my first time posting on this site, but I really need some help / advice.
I am 26 years old and have two siblings (a twin sister and a younger brother). Both of our parents are alcoholics. They have been drinking for over 20 years and have damaged us emotionally in many ways. I have just recently started to research this stuff and I am just starting to realize that I have many issues that I need to deal with.
Anyway to get to the point. My siblings and I planned an intervention on our own (we know our parents, they would not have wanted an "outsider" in the meeting). So we planned this for about two months and we all wrote a letter and then we waited, I am not sure why we did, but we were all scared. The final straw happened last weekend when my 4 year old son was spending the night with them. He heard my Dad (who was drunk of course) say to my Mom, "If you touch me I will punch you in the face." Now let me assure you that there has not been any actual physical violence between the two of them, it is just threats and anger all the time. But, that was the last straw for me. I had decided that I would NEVER be like my parents when I had kids of my own, and I was still putting him in the situations that I am trying to keep him from. So....we decided to give them the letter.
Not to go too much into the letter, but it basically said, "If you want to continue drinking then you will do so without contact from your kids and grandkids." Of course they were angry right away, and would not even meet with us to talk about it. They are both so far into denial that they think there is no problem and that it is none of our business. I think it is just such a big part of their lives they can not imagine a life without it.
Okay this is getting long, but this is what I need advice with. My mom e-mailed me today and was trying to bargain with me, she said they would no longer have alcohol in the house, and would only go out one day a week. Now that is a very big step for them, BUT they have told us they would cut back before and (of course) it nevers works. I did tell my mom that we were not willing to compromise on our position, and that if they were not addicted she would not be trying to bargain with me. I said that if they want to continue to drink at all, that is fine, HOWEVER we (siblings, and our kids) would not be associated with them. I then told her that we should go to a family therapy session and get some outside advice / help, which she quickly shot down. She then said she does not like the idea of "never" drinking again, and was basically planning to relapse. She also keeps saying that WE are the ones that are doing this, that they are not doing anything wrong, and we are keeping their grandkids away from them. Basically they are taking NO responsibility.
We are supposed to sit down and talk with them tomorrow. How should I approach this? I know that I need to stay firm in what I told them, but how do I make them see that they are only hurting themselves? What kind of things should I say / do? Do they need to go into treatment to get better, or can it happen on its own? I just need some justification that what we are doing is the right thing, and any ideas / examples of what you guys have been through. Has anyone had to do this? Does it work? I appreciate any advice, any at all. THANK YOU!!!
I am 26 years old and have two siblings (a twin sister and a younger brother). Both of our parents are alcoholics. They have been drinking for over 20 years and have damaged us emotionally in many ways. I have just recently started to research this stuff and I am just starting to realize that I have many issues that I need to deal with.
Anyway to get to the point. My siblings and I planned an intervention on our own (we know our parents, they would not have wanted an "outsider" in the meeting). So we planned this for about two months and we all wrote a letter and then we waited, I am not sure why we did, but we were all scared. The final straw happened last weekend when my 4 year old son was spending the night with them. He heard my Dad (who was drunk of course) say to my Mom, "If you touch me I will punch you in the face." Now let me assure you that there has not been any actual physical violence between the two of them, it is just threats and anger all the time. But, that was the last straw for me. I had decided that I would NEVER be like my parents when I had kids of my own, and I was still putting him in the situations that I am trying to keep him from. So....we decided to give them the letter.
Not to go too much into the letter, but it basically said, "If you want to continue drinking then you will do so without contact from your kids and grandkids." Of course they were angry right away, and would not even meet with us to talk about it. They are both so far into denial that they think there is no problem and that it is none of our business. I think it is just such a big part of their lives they can not imagine a life without it.
Okay this is getting long, but this is what I need advice with. My mom e-mailed me today and was trying to bargain with me, she said they would no longer have alcohol in the house, and would only go out one day a week. Now that is a very big step for them, BUT they have told us they would cut back before and (of course) it nevers works. I did tell my mom that we were not willing to compromise on our position, and that if they were not addicted she would not be trying to bargain with me. I said that if they want to continue to drink at all, that is fine, HOWEVER we (siblings, and our kids) would not be associated with them. I then told her that we should go to a family therapy session and get some outside advice / help, which she quickly shot down. She then said she does not like the idea of "never" drinking again, and was basically planning to relapse. She also keeps saying that WE are the ones that are doing this, that they are not doing anything wrong, and we are keeping their grandkids away from them. Basically they are taking NO responsibility.
We are supposed to sit down and talk with them tomorrow. How should I approach this? I know that I need to stay firm in what I told them, but how do I make them see that they are only hurting themselves? What kind of things should I say / do? Do they need to go into treatment to get better, or can it happen on its own? I just need some justification that what we are doing is the right thing, and any ideas / examples of what you guys have been through. Has anyone had to do this? Does it work? I appreciate any advice, any at all. THANK YOU!!!
let it grow!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 15,540
welcome, bookworm - it's nice to meet you.
sorry about your situation. have you thought about trying alanon meetings? they really help me.
experience has taught me that alcoholics like to blame others to avoid pain and responsibility. they also don't like to take no for an answer.
the best you can do is take good care of yourselves and your children.
remember this about your parents' disease - you didn't cause it, you can't cure it, and you cannot control it. it's ok to tell them how you see it and how you feel, but don't have expectations that doing that will make them stop.
alanon is a great place for you and your siblings. meanwhile, please know that i admire you for being such loving children. your parents are lucky to have you.
blessings, k
sorry about your situation. have you thought about trying alanon meetings? they really help me.
experience has taught me that alcoholics like to blame others to avoid pain and responsibility. they also don't like to take no for an answer.
the best you can do is take good care of yourselves and your children.
remember this about your parents' disease - you didn't cause it, you can't cure it, and you cannot control it. it's ok to tell them how you see it and how you feel, but don't have expectations that doing that will make them stop.
alanon is a great place for you and your siblings. meanwhile, please know that i admire you for being such loving children. your parents are lucky to have you.
blessings, k
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Welcome to SR... we are glad you are here....
I can only tell you my story..... and Im not sure you will really understand unless you have had some theraphy / Al-anon... but here it goes.
My Mother was the alcoholic in my life... she was also physically abusive to me. All of my childhood there were issues with her drinking. When I got out on my own I told her I would not have anything to do with her if she continued to drink. I just could not stand it.... So I would punish her by not being a part of her life at all. That lasted about 3 years, I started theraphy for the damage that had, the dysfunction from living with the disease of Alcoholism.
That was the first time I heard that I had no right to "tell" my mother anything... It was her life and if she did not do what "I" wanted then I would punish her by not being in her life. I did not like the answer so I stopped going.
When I gave birth to my daughter I again knew that if I was dysfunctional there is no way I could raise a functional child.... I got that much from the first time I went, so now there is more at stake and when he told me that It was not my mothers problem, it was my problem.... I freaked... I was so mad, but I still went. I would tell him all about how she damaged me etc.... only thing he would say is what am "I" going to do about it.
To make a long story short.... Your Mother does not feel she has a problem, you are the one that has the problem with her and your father.... Of course you should put up boundries that are comfortable for you.... but the boundries are about you not trying to change them. If you set that boundry of no contact for yourself and the protection of your children then that is your right... and you might just have had too do that. But if you set that boundry up to force them to change......
With my Mom I set up boundries, do not call me when you have been drinking, Not allowed around my daughter when she has etc .... but I wanted my Mother and Daughter to know each other... and today Im so glad I did. My Mother is dead today but my daughter knew and loved her and I did too. I forgave her long ago and I finally "got" what my first therapist was talking about.... It is her life and I had no right to try to control her, All I could control was myself and the changes to find peace/senerity had to come from inside me.
We had a Great/Loving relationship the last 10 years of her life and she never stopped drinking.... I miss her.
I can only tell you my story..... and Im not sure you will really understand unless you have had some theraphy / Al-anon... but here it goes.
My Mother was the alcoholic in my life... she was also physically abusive to me. All of my childhood there were issues with her drinking. When I got out on my own I told her I would not have anything to do with her if she continued to drink. I just could not stand it.... So I would punish her by not being a part of her life at all. That lasted about 3 years, I started theraphy for the damage that had, the dysfunction from living with the disease of Alcoholism.
That was the first time I heard that I had no right to "tell" my mother anything... It was her life and if she did not do what "I" wanted then I would punish her by not being in her life. I did not like the answer so I stopped going.
When I gave birth to my daughter I again knew that if I was dysfunctional there is no way I could raise a functional child.... I got that much from the first time I went, so now there is more at stake and when he told me that It was not my mothers problem, it was my problem.... I freaked... I was so mad, but I still went. I would tell him all about how she damaged me etc.... only thing he would say is what am "I" going to do about it.
To make a long story short.... Your Mother does not feel she has a problem, you are the one that has the problem with her and your father.... Of course you should put up boundries that are comfortable for you.... but the boundries are about you not trying to change them. If you set that boundry of no contact for yourself and the protection of your children then that is your right... and you might just have had too do that. But if you set that boundry up to force them to change......
With my Mom I set up boundries, do not call me when you have been drinking, Not allowed around my daughter when she has etc .... but I wanted my Mother and Daughter to know each other... and today Im so glad I did. My Mother is dead today but my daughter knew and loved her and I did too. I forgave her long ago and I finally "got" what my first therapist was talking about.... It is her life and I had no right to try to control her, All I could control was myself and the changes to find peace/senerity had to come from inside me.
We had a Great/Loving relationship the last 10 years of her life and she never stopped drinking.... I miss her.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dixie
Posts: 612
Hi, bookworm. I think setting boundaries is a good idea. You are letting your parents know that they can keep drinking if they want to, but they will have to do it without you all.
They have acted angry and offended because they are in denial. They don't think they have a problem. For this reason, I think you are going to be disappointed with the outcome of your "homemade" intervention. It is crystal clear to you, and the choice appears to be a no-brainer. But they are lost in their addiction. As emotionally painful as it is, they will give up their grandchildren before they will give up their booze, and they will blame it all on you. Try not to take it personally... they are sick.
I really feel the best way you can help them and yourselves is to educate yourselves about the disease of addiction as quickly as possible. Research it on the internet, read everything you can find, and attend Al-Anon meetings. Once you learn about the disease, you will be better equipped on how to handle it.
Keep posting.
They have acted angry and offended because they are in denial. They don't think they have a problem. For this reason, I think you are going to be disappointed with the outcome of your "homemade" intervention. It is crystal clear to you, and the choice appears to be a no-brainer. But they are lost in their addiction. As emotionally painful as it is, they will give up their grandchildren before they will give up their booze, and they will blame it all on you. Try not to take it personally... they are sick.
I really feel the best way you can help them and yourselves is to educate yourselves about the disease of addiction as quickly as possible. Research it on the internet, read everything you can find, and attend Al-Anon meetings. Once you learn about the disease, you will be better equipped on how to handle it.
Keep posting.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Welcome to SR Bookworm.
Sorry to hear about the issues you are having with your parents.
The way I view boundaries is that they are not to change another person, but rather to safeguard myself, and in your case, that would include your children.
I think it's a reasonable boundary to let them know that when they are drinking, that you and your children won't be around them, or will cut off all contact if that's the way you feel. That's not telling them you expect them to change, although it's certainly understandable that you really wish they would. But, they are adults and are entitled to live their lives the way they wish. Just as you are entitled to do the same.
I've also found that when I 'changed the game' by setting boundaries that are healthy for me, it upsets the other person(s) and they reacted by getting angry with me, bargaining, manipulating, etc. That's when I had to learn to be strong in my position and to not waver.
I also had to back up my boundaries with consistant action...i.e. don't 'say' one thing, then back down on it when the going got a little tough. It's tempting to back down at times though. It took practice for me to feel comfortable doing this, but it's paid off.
I hope you have a chance to read the threads here as there's loads of good information and insight. Oh, and check out the stickies at the top of the forum too. You might also want to give some Alanon meetings a try.
Once again, welcome to SR.
Sorry to hear about the issues you are having with your parents.
The way I view boundaries is that they are not to change another person, but rather to safeguard myself, and in your case, that would include your children.
I think it's a reasonable boundary to let them know that when they are drinking, that you and your children won't be around them, or will cut off all contact if that's the way you feel. That's not telling them you expect them to change, although it's certainly understandable that you really wish they would. But, they are adults and are entitled to live their lives the way they wish. Just as you are entitled to do the same.
I've also found that when I 'changed the game' by setting boundaries that are healthy for me, it upsets the other person(s) and they reacted by getting angry with me, bargaining, manipulating, etc. That's when I had to learn to be strong in my position and to not waver.
I also had to back up my boundaries with consistant action...i.e. don't 'say' one thing, then back down on it when the going got a little tough. It's tempting to back down at times though. It took practice for me to feel comfortable doing this, but it's paid off.
I hope you have a chance to read the threads here as there's loads of good information and insight. Oh, and check out the stickies at the top of the forum too. You might also want to give some Alanon meetings a try.
Once again, welcome to SR.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Welcome to SR bookworm!
Trust your instincts. You have done great so far. It was a difficult concept for me for a while, but I finally got it, too: I set boundaries for me, not to change someone else. I can only step back from trying to control another. If and when your parents ever make a decision to stop drinking, that will be their choice.
It doesn't work to make threats thinking it will change another. If you think in the end you will relent and let them see the children, it isn't worth setting the boundary or making the threat. They will know you were not serious.
Good luck and keep posting.
Trust your instincts. You have done great so far. It was a difficult concept for me for a while, but I finally got it, too: I set boundaries for me, not to change someone else. I can only step back from trying to control another. If and when your parents ever make a decision to stop drinking, that will be their choice.
It doesn't work to make threats thinking it will change another. If you think in the end you will relent and let them see the children, it isn't worth setting the boundary or making the threat. They will know you were not serious.
Good luck and keep posting.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 137
Hi, I think you are doing a great thing not only for you but your child. You yourself have seen and know what their drinking has done to your life and the issues you now have to deal with because of it. Is that what you want for your child? It sounds like you don't....what you are doing is very difficult and takes alot of courage...but in the long run it will save your child from seeing and hearing the things that have caused you problems and pain growing up. Good Luck!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 792
hi bookworm! along with everyone else, i think you need to see that you can't control your parents' behavior. it's such a difficult issue for me, because i always think if i threaten enough, if i take enough away, if i do this and that... the drinking will stop. and it's so disappointing and heartbreaking. i could say, you know what, we'll never talk again if you keep drinking, and my ex would be totally okay with that. she would see through that empty threat and blame me for acting the way i do, for wanting to control and manipulate her, even if i did it subconsciously and only because i cared enough about her and loved her enough to want what's best for her. basically, your parents need to decide for themselves that they have a problem.
perhaps losing their relationship with you and your kids, for at least a small amount of time, might help (it might not, though, you might lose that relationship with them forever); but from my own personal experience, i'd be very wary when trusting them when they say they won't keep alcohol in the house and would only go out one day a week. bargaining with something like this just isn't going to happen. i'd have to say it's all or nothing, and if it were my kids that were there, i'd want to scope out the house to make sure they weren't drinking in front of them... i wouldn't want my kids exposed to that. but that's only my own paranoid opinion, you'll have to form your own
and welcome! i'd love to hear how it turns out!
perhaps losing their relationship with you and your kids, for at least a small amount of time, might help (it might not, though, you might lose that relationship with them forever); but from my own personal experience, i'd be very wary when trusting them when they say they won't keep alcohol in the house and would only go out one day a week. bargaining with something like this just isn't going to happen. i'd have to say it's all or nothing, and if it were my kids that were there, i'd want to scope out the house to make sure they weren't drinking in front of them... i wouldn't want my kids exposed to that. but that's only my own paranoid opinion, you'll have to form your own
and welcome! i'd love to hear how it turns out!
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
Welcome bookworm, it will be difficult to stick to boundries, but very good if you can do it.
I suggest you say, "I feel" , rather than, "you did," "you should "etc.
It is their life, and we learn we cannot change anyone.
Wishing you strength when you visit with them. Does your sister and brother have childern?
My thought and suggestion would be that you all three have the same boundries. I think if all united it will be a stronger message.
Just suggestions.
Let us know how it goes, and keep coming back as you can help others too.
Caring hugs
I suggest you say, "I feel" , rather than, "you did," "you should "etc.
It is their life, and we learn we cannot change anyone.
Wishing you strength when you visit with them. Does your sister and brother have childern?
My thought and suggestion would be that you all three have the same boundries. I think if all united it will be a stronger message.
Just suggestions.
Let us know how it goes, and keep coming back as you can help others too.
Caring hugs
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Welcome Bookworm! You've gotten some great advice on here. The biggest thing to remember is you didn't make them drink and you can't make them stop. No amount of begging, pleading, threatening, etc...can make them quit if they don't want to.
All you can change is you. Everyone is right when they say you have to set boundaries for you.
Keep on posting. The people on here are sooo wise and they know, really know, what it's like!
Praying for you all!
,Cheryl
All you can change is you. Everyone is right when they say you have to set boundaries for you.
Keep on posting. The people on here are sooo wise and they know, really know, what it's like!
Praying for you all!
,Cheryl
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 63
I certainly would not let my kids spend the night with the grandparents, or spend any time with them unsupervised (by me). I don't know about your parents but mine were also alcoholics, and they thought nothing of driving drunk. Being around drunk adults (parents and grandparents) is a really scary thing for a child.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 63
I'm sorry, what I meant to say was - if you are willing to negotiate with your parents, maybe they could have visits with the grandkids if they are supervised by a responsible adult.
If you are not willing to negotiate, that's your choice (and your responsibility.)
Good luck, I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
If you are not willing to negotiate, that's your choice (and your responsibility.)
Good luck, I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 5
Thanks
Thank you all for your posts.
To answer a few questions. My twin sister has a little boy that is three months younger than mine (they are both 4). My younger brother is engaged to be married and they have no children.
I think I get the "its your life thing". I told my Mom that when I last spoke to her. I said, "You can drink if you want too, however, I will not be a part of it at all." It is still really hard for me to understand that they are so in denial. I am also going to start attending al-anon meetings with my brother (I think they will help us.)
We are going to talk to them tomorrow afternoon and I will let you all know how it goes. I think we are going to stick with our boundaries that we originally set, that is mainly because it still hurts my siblings and I to know what is going on. None of us live at home, but we still know what is going on and it hurts us, so we do not want to be a part of it at all.
I think what we are going to say is that we love them, and when they are ready to get better to let us know, because we will help them in any way possible. But if they are not ready then we can not be involved with them (emotionally and mentally it is too hard for all of us).
I will be back on tomorrow night to let you know how it goes... Thank you all for your support. Having others that know what I am going through really helps me.
To answer a few questions. My twin sister has a little boy that is three months younger than mine (they are both 4). My younger brother is engaged to be married and they have no children.
I think I get the "its your life thing". I told my Mom that when I last spoke to her. I said, "You can drink if you want too, however, I will not be a part of it at all." It is still really hard for me to understand that they are so in denial. I am also going to start attending al-anon meetings with my brother (I think they will help us.)
We are going to talk to them tomorrow afternoon and I will let you all know how it goes. I think we are going to stick with our boundaries that we originally set, that is mainly because it still hurts my siblings and I to know what is going on. None of us live at home, but we still know what is going on and it hurts us, so we do not want to be a part of it at all.
I think what we are going to say is that we love them, and when they are ready to get better to let us know, because we will help them in any way possible. But if they are not ready then we can not be involved with them (emotionally and mentally it is too hard for all of us).
I will be back on tomorrow night to let you know how it goes... Thank you all for your support. Having others that know what I am going through really helps me.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 34
Welcome Bookworm
You've gotten a lot of good advice here. And everything posted about not being able to change the A with threats of recourse on your part is only as good as the goods you have to back it up. Don't make threats or demands that you cannot or will not keep. The A gloms onto those things like glue. They know their role in the drama of their drinking and they know yours, too. You need to break the cycle of this this "play" and be consistent with it.
My sponsor told me the other day that you should never get into a confrontation with anyone unless you are armed for success. For me it meant trying to get into my DD's head about her future (she's a senior in HS) and about her total apathy towards school. She suggested that I involve an unbiased 3rd party to mediate the discussion. My DD and I alone could be a recipe for disaster because too many emotions are involved on both our parts.
Maybe you do need to bring in a 3rd, impartial person, to help with your intervention. Just an idea.
Take care and good luck
Karen
You've gotten a lot of good advice here. And everything posted about not being able to change the A with threats of recourse on your part is only as good as the goods you have to back it up. Don't make threats or demands that you cannot or will not keep. The A gloms onto those things like glue. They know their role in the drama of their drinking and they know yours, too. You need to break the cycle of this this "play" and be consistent with it.
My sponsor told me the other day that you should never get into a confrontation with anyone unless you are armed for success. For me it meant trying to get into my DD's head about her future (she's a senior in HS) and about her total apathy towards school. She suggested that I involve an unbiased 3rd party to mediate the discussion. My DD and I alone could be a recipe for disaster because too many emotions are involved on both our parts.
Maybe you do need to bring in a 3rd, impartial person, to help with your intervention. Just an idea.
Take care and good luck
Karen
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