Upsetting posts

Old 02-06-2007, 04:57 AM
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Upsetting posts

Below I've pasted two quotes that were posted on the Alcoholism Forum. They really upset me. What they say totally hits me where it hurts. We all are trying so hard to be healthy and save ourselves from "going down with the ship" but a lot of us still feel extremely guilty and worry also that maybe we're "abadoning" our A's in a time of need. ugh. So confused. What do you guys think?

From Tiburon:
"Isn't it a fine line between loving the addict and enabling him/her??? I believe that if my family gave up on me completely I would be dead. It just seems like everything a loved one says or does for the addict is labeled as "enabling." Do alanon members know that just wanting to quit addiction and "working a 12-step program" is sometimes still not enough to stay sober??"

From Hooner:
"I get annoyed with Al-Anon stating they have to go on and live their lives. Who cares about the damage caused pre or post drinking. It's one for all or all for one. Look out for yourself, screw everyone else. At least drunks realize what they are doing is wrong and most feel miserable with every sip. But Al-Anon just says, "I know someone screwed up and they messed me up." Well, don't you think most drinkers have had the same or not worse??????????"
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:51 AM
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OMG. I can see why it upset you. It would upset me if I saw that! What they are not getting is that we (Alanon) is sicker than they are. We stayed in a relationship that was either mentally, verbally, or physically abusive because their actions have made it hard for us to think on our own. They go on with their lives even in recovery. Their main priority is staying sober. Some of us can't take anymore of the selfishness they protray and leave. Some of us stay because we are still sick.
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:51 AM
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I don't know what to say except this is said by two alcoholics....who knows where or IF they are in their own recovery. I think knowing that is important to keep in mind (at least I have found that to be the case for me).

Maybe some of our "double winners" will join in with their thoughts.

thanks for the share
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:37 AM
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neg.....i was on that post, too, and thought wowwweeee.

i didn't respond, because it would have felt like i was talking to my xah all over again. this was the same conversation he used to have AT me.

quack.

i just chuckled and moved on.....it made me grateful not to be there anymore.
there were some very eloquent posts from al-anoners on that post, and i decided to zip it, cause i didn't want to have the conversation again.

i wish them well in their recovery, and hope they look back someday at their growth.
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:41 AM
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Look into the reasons why these posts upset you.Get to the root and causes,this will help you.
What others say about me,or any recovery program that i go to,is really none of my bussiness.They can say what they believe,its ok.As long as ---i--know what Al-anon is and what it isnt,thats whats important.As long as im working on my own recovery,this will benifit,me,as well,as all who i come into contact with..lol
How many Al-anon meetings have these folks gone to?Have they read and apply Al-anon to their lives?What experience do they have with Al-anon,other than listening to others,who go to program?????
Me-thinks,that they have forgotton,
Step One,
in both programs,AA/Al-anon.....
let go,and let God.
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:42 AM
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In my case, it doesn't upset me at all. My husband of 12 years who was an alcoholic, pill-popper, pot smoker, and who-knows-what-else....and could not hold down a job, would not even admit he had a problem. *I* was the crazy one. That's why I finally left. He was only getting worse. Perhaps if he had admitted he had a problem and tried to recover with help from AA, I might have stayed. But he denied, denied, denied. I was suffering..and most importantly...our children were suffering. It was time to say "enough."
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:45 AM
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I know there are alcoholics who have strong opinions about Alanon without ever having set foot into the rooms of Alanon (and it goes the other way, too, btw). Some AAsl me they believe we sit around all night talking about THEM. I like the advice above - "consider the source"... after all, we have no idea where those two are coming from.

And remember what they tell us around the AA tables.... "we are here because we aren't all there".

((((hugs))))
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:54 AM
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Newlandgirl,
Hi..."double winner" here. I'm closing in on 2 months sober. Both those posters are in very early recovery. They are spouting off what they are feeling at the time. Believe me, I'm on one heck of a roller coaster and my emotional pendulum swings from one extreme to another. I can be "certain" of something emotionally one day and find myself in an emotional polar opposite the next. I was actually going to bring it up at a meeting last night. When will this insanity in my head end? We are just getting to know ourselves again...sifting thru wreckage, trying to discern between our addictive-ego voices and true and natural selves. I've been stuck in some real unattractive pity parties in this process (those posts appear to be from that perspective).

Please don't take anything that the highly emotional alcoholic in early recovery says to heart. An hour later our perspective can swing dramatically.

Caring is not enabling.....enabling is not backing up your word when you've issued ultimatums, lying for them/us, tolerating bad/abusive behaviour (believe me we know when we're running roughshod over ya).

I care for my exAbf. I asked if he wanted to be sober for "us"..try again sober. He does not. Caring for him is allowing him to make his own choices and suffer his own consequences. I cannot be his "salvation". The codie in me would like to be...but I can't. No one could get me to quit drinking but me. I can only stay sober for me. This is about me and my life and once I'm a little better...it is only then I can likely offer anything of any good to anyone anyway.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:09 AM
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If this is how they feel, I think they need to say so. They are working through something. their feelings change, just like ours, we come here mad, sad, resigned, weak etc. I have to say that I think the first post is upsetting because it is true.
I think whenever we leave or kick them out, wether they receive it or not, They need to know that they are loved. Leaving does not mean that you stop loving, it means you are going to take that last thread of love to save yourself. This is why I highly recommend no contact for a period of time. They know that they must have no contact with the thing that is hurting them and sometimes so do we.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mallowcup View Post
They know that they must have no contact with the thing that is hurting them and sometimes so do we.
A great way of looking at it! Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:16 AM
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The pain really belongs to whoever the poor suckers are who live with those far-from-recovery alkies.

I'm having a hard time these days feeling anything but contempt for quacking - unhealthy contempt ... I some healing of my own to do.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:19 AM
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Mallow you have a way of getting to the point of a problem for sure.

I wonder if anyone bothered to tell the Alcoholics over there this information.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:31 AM
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I wouldnt pay it too much attention. They are both new here. And perhaps even very new in recovery. In the first post they also mention they dont mean to offend anyone. Just venting as we all do.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:33 AM
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Well, I just went there for the first time to post. I'm not sure how welcome it will be but I brought my manners with me.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:35 AM
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Thanks Time2Surrender...everybody has a right to spout off, it is what we do with it...that's where the magic happens or does not. THAT choice is ours which is the only one we got.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:37 AM
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My AH says he loves me all the time and occasionally asks why I don't love him. I tell him the same thing every time. "I love you. I just can't live with the drinking. "
But even putting it in plain English - he just doesn't get it.
He is mean, verbally abusive and I could hear him say what was quoted first by Tiburon the love/enable thing although I doubt my Ah has ever said the word enabling - he just sees it all as me leaving.
My AH is always saying that, "if (he) stops drinking or goes to this treatment or that, will I be there for him?". It's like if I'm not going to be there to catch him he's not even going to try.
Again, I tell him that "I can't/or we (kids & I) can't be the reason for his sobriety - he has to do it for himself or it will never work." It feels like he wants me to be his reason - so if one little thing goes wrong - he can blame me.
And I will not be that for anyone anymore.

My point being to Tiburon quote - even if we loved them they wouldn't see it as that. It's not a fine line - it's just that the line is still blurry to them. IMO
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:34 AM
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They're entitled to their feelings.

I've just never believed I've abandoned AH. I don't think detachment and abandonment are synonyms. That was confusing to me at the beginning. It is a leap of faith to leave someone to their own recovery, one I'm very glad I took. One of the last things I ever said to AH was that I would always be there for his recovery.

Take care and try to be kind to yourself.
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:39 AM
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Both of those posts were made by admitted alkies who are fairly early into recovery.

That is their thinking at this time. The "Stinking Thinking" that is talked about a lot in AA meetings, roflmao.

It does give an excellent example of just how screwed up an active alcoholic is, roflmao. Been there and done that, sheesh.

Please remember, that all of us are in various stages of recovery (hopefully, lol) and to take everything that is posted with a grain or two of salt, lol.

I used to think, in my first 3 years of alcohol recovery, that alanons were much sicker then I or my AA friends were cause they stayed with us, lol. Then I was pushed (by a very STRONG SUGGESTION from my AA sponsor) to get my butt to Alanon to deal with my codie side, ROFLMAO.

My point being to Tiburon quote - even if we loved them they wouldn't see it as that. It's not a fine line - it's just that the line is still blurry to them. IMO
criss-cross hit the nail right on the head.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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