hopeangel

ah had to go to the dr. a while back and his cholesterol was elevated and he also had elevated bilirubins. well after this he REALLY watched what he ate and lowered his cholesterol to 207, only needed seven points to go to be okay. well, since he started drinking more and then quit drinking he hasn't been watching and his cholesterol went back up. the dr. wants to put him on lipator. we know this can be bad for the liver and we are concerned about him going on it. of course, i was more concerned about the bilirubins, but ah did not tell the dr that he was alcoholic and the dr. just dismissed the bilirubins saying it could be from anything and the other liver tests were okay, so he was not concerned. i don't know if he tested the bilirubins the last time again or not - he had two elevated tests before the last.
well, ah told me that he plans on "telling the dr. all his deep dark secrets" when he goes next week. in treatment they told him it would be good for him to start taking B vitamens. i got him multi vitamens -had to get the ones without niacin because every vitamen i tried he said made him feel funny???
anyway, i know that it is probably best for him to tell the dr. and that i shouldn't stop him from telling the dr. he is alcoholic, but...
we have fertility issues, and cannot have children on our own, and want to adopt. well, you know the first questions on the applications are about alcohol and mental health counseling, etc. and there is a medical form that has to be filled out by the dr. and, of course, one of the questions is -have you treated this patient for alcoholism or mental health. i am SO afraid that once he tells the dr. the dr. will be obligated to listed it and our chances to adopt will be ruined i really don't want to withhold info from the adoption agency, but i also think a person has a right to their private life and the whole idea behind treatment and AA/Alanon is that it is anonymous so people can get help, so are we really obligated to disclose these things to them?
i want children soo badly. i am 34 years old and have waited and waited and put it on hold. the more ah is in treatment the farther and farther i see he has to go - he even said to me that he may have to be in counseling forever and he has no idea how long it will take him to be better and i can choose to stick around through it or i can go. ah has always pulled through and done what he needed to do when he needed to do it and i have no doubt he would do this to be a father too. i need to add that i have hesitated on the adoption (i have wanted to keep trying for a biological child through expensive fertility treatments that have not worked yet, but could)and HE is the one that has really wanted adoption and pushed for it. it is something i want to though.
i know he could be a wonderful dad, but i also see that he has a lot of issues that he needs to deal with and he is sick. so logic tells me it is probably not good to have children right now, but i know what a great mom i will make -I LOVE CHILDREN- i deserve to have children.
I should add that ah is 25 days sober-THANK GOD!!!. has been going to AA for two years, but never stopped drinking or went to treatment until now.

embraced2000

oh hope.....this is really tough.

i can hear your strong desire to have children, and it's heartbreaking to think that alcoholism could prevent that from happening for you.

but, hope, imo....and i don't want to hurt your feelings sweety,....i would never knowingly bring an innocent child into an alcoholic situation. this child deserves a home with parents that would be fully there for them....not an alcoholic turmoil. i am so sorry....i truly don't want to hurt you....this is just my opinion.

good luck
and love to you
jeri

MsPINKAcres

((Oh Hope))
Please accept my sympathy in your struggles to have children. I have several friends that have walked that path also - it can be a very exhausting journey.

I also can relate to Jeri's reply. I married my AH when my daughters were 10 & 7 - I brought this disease into their innocent little lives. It has taken tons of hours of Step work, journaling, & prayer to try to heal the guilt I deal with from exposing my girls to this disease.

Yes, my AH is in recovery now, but he wasn't for over 10 yrs. Our daughters are all adults now - I still see the scars they carry from being raised in a home filled with alcoholic/addictive behaviors - not to mention an untreated al-anon mom.

It doesn't mean you can't have children ever Hope, but can you wait? Can you give your AH a little more time to see if he is going to stay dedicated to his program of recovery? JMHO - It might be the emotional health of your child that you are saving.

Remember - this is all said in a spirit of love, compassion & understanding - Take what you like & leave the rest.

Peace,
Rita

embraced2000

((((((((hope)))))))))

much love to you.

jeri

elizabeth1979

Hopeangel,

I know what it feels like to want children badly. I have fertility issues and may or may not be able to have them. Ive been told my doctors for the last 3years to 'start trying now'..not sure how long I will be able to conceive.
I tell you this, so you see I can seriously relate.

I am not trying and dont plan on trying. It is important to me to raise children in a healthy functional environment where I can give them 100%. Children of Alcoholics have a lifetime of hurts and issues to deal with that they didnt choose to have.
I believe I will have children if I am meant to have them, and I may have to adopt. Trust that things will work the way they are supposed to and foring issues rarely works the way we want.

hopeangel

embraced - you have not hurt my feelings in anyway. believe me, you have not said anything that i have not already thought myself. i have thought about this and agonized over it to the point it was driving me crazy.

i have tried to way the positives and the negatives. i have waited and hesitated and i have waffled back and forth on what to do. have children with ah -don't have children - leave ah and have children on my own or with someone else. can you see where this can get consuming? there are NO real answers and no one can really predict the outcome. ah could be sober for 5 - 10 years and drink again. there is no cure for alcoholism as we all know-OR he could never drink again and he could be a great father. i have had a counselor advise me to do it for me - i have had family tell me me to go for it and i have had family tell me not to. the counselor said that i am not getting younger and especially with fertility treatments your chances of getting pregnant drops pretty dramatically after 35. she doesn't feel i should deny myself (and deny ah i guess) the chance at least. i expressed my concerns to her about ah (anger issues and he was abused as a child) and my fears and she said, well, you will get the children out of there and not let ah harm them in anyway. she basically explained that just a lot of the burdon would be on me. it is TRUE i would NEVER let ah harm our children in any way!!! if he would continue to drink or start drinking again. i would remove the children from the situation without hesitation. she said to tell ah this and i did. i looked him square in the eyes and told him that if he did anything to harm our children they would be gone before he would blink.
this being said, i do not think ah would harm our children.
japee- wait, yes i could, but that is ALL i have done- every day is precious. adoption-infertility is not quickly resolved. it could be another year or more before we received a child.
I AM AFRAID THAT TELLING THE DR. AND AH ALCOHOLISM WILL PREVENT US FROM BEING ABLE TO HAVE CHILDREN EVER
i am not just thinking of myself. i am thinking of the love and good life that i could give a child. i have a very strong loving family and lots of support.
elizabeth- i am sorry you suffer infertility and i admire your outlook and your strength. you are a strong woman.

embraced2000

hope...something lept out to me from this post...your hubs anger issues.

my x also had anger issues that i thought was caused by the alcoholism. after being in counseling, i have learned that they are two seperate issues.

i used to believe that his alcohlism caused him to act, do and say the horrible things he was capable of doing, saying, or acting upon. wrong. way wrong.

of course he was always so remorsefull. and i truly believe he was remorseful. he could be very kind and wonderful at times. he wasn't always like this....it started out real little and got real big. it progressed. and the longer it progressed, the more intense it became.

the reason i'm sharing this, is to give you some background on my experience with alcohol and abuse issues. the anger, just like the alcohol, is always there, awaiting to come back, if the holder of anger and alcohol gives it the chance it is looking for.

it's serious stuff, hope. very, very serious. how long have you been married, if i may ask?

love to you
jeri

best

Hope

I am sorry about your struggles to have children.
I am a son of alcoholic parents (long passed away now) they did find a sober way of life after I moved out, so at least that part is good.
If you truly want to understand what children in an alcoholic home can go through...You may do well to visit a few ACOA meetings and just listen to some of the struggles that many still have in the adult life because of alcoholic parents. I happen to be a parent and had my time of drinking as well.
Because of my upbringing and what I lived through...I did change and did better in some areas from what my parents did but in so many areas...I did the best of what I knew and alcoholic parents don't teach true quality of parenting...so as I look back, I see I could have done so much better. My best (only thing I knew), in my opinion was not always that of a good dad. Took me till my youngest was 18 before I started to realize...stopping the drinking was only part of being a good parent (had stopped before he was born) It wasn't untill he was 18 or so that I truly begain living a sober life. Alcohol free did not make me a sober dad.
Yes...please visit a few ACOA meetings to gather a little more insight.

hopeangel

we have been together 7 years and married for going on 4 years now.

yes, i know what you are saying about two seperate issues. the more ah is in treatment the more we are seeing this and reckonizing it and the more he is in treatment the more i see how far he has to go he realizes this too and said the same thing to me-that it is going to take A LOT of counseling. he is just now starting to deal with the underlying issues that have caused him to self medicate.
it is serious stuff i know -at times i think it is too serious. there are no real answers and absolutely no guarentees as we know. it could go either way with ah. he could be the best father ever or the stress of it could cause him to go further into addition, relapse, or he could be the best father ever (he does a lot of stuff around the house, he cooks meals, care for me already) i know (without the addiction and anger) he is an extremely loving and affectionate person.
believe me i realize with the anger -there is a beast that MUST be let out before it is dealt with.
geez, i am finding recovery is just as hard-okay harder- than dealing with the drinking.

hopeangel

for your wonderful insight as a child of alcoholic parents. thank you!

actually, many of the Alanon members i attend with are children of alcoholics too and i hear their struggles and see the definate emotional damage this has done to them - even in there 40 and 50's it seems they still suffer from it.

embraced2000

hope....i went back and re-read your intro post. hope, you are not only in an alcoholic relationship, you have the absolute horror of living in a physically and verbally abusive relationship.

please go back and re-read your intro, and pretend that you are a stranger reading this post. see if you can see what i see......(said with compassion and understanding)

are you thinking and hoping that maybe a child will make your husband be a better person? make his violence go away or make his alcoholism go away?

love to you
jeri

lilac

Embraced is right........Go back and read your posts.

I am sure you will be a great mother, but the environment that exists right now at home is not one that an innocent life that has no choice or control of deserves. Just think, it is not good for you is it????Would you want a child to endure that?

Hugs to you and I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

MsPINKAcres

Hope,
Never did I mean to imply that you would knowingly do anything hurtful to a child. Neither did I to my girls. But what did happen is the alcoholic/addictive behaviors & untreated al-anon behaviors got worse little by little - inches at a time - so small that at first you don't even notice. Then you wake up one day & it is 10 yrs later & everyone's life is a living hell.

This disease is cunning, baffling & powerful not only to alcoholics but to the friends & family members. Just as the disease is constantly calling for the A's to come back to it - it also calls me back into the insanity trying to convince me that This Time it will be different, This Time it will be better.

No I didn't mean to subject my girls to this disease, but it happened, faster than I could have ever imagined. I pray so much that your HP guides you in the right decisions for your family plans. I don't know what is right for you - I don't even pretend to try to guess - I am only sharing my e,s, & h so that you can make an informed decision.

Sending you good thoughts for peace, comfort, love & serenity,

Rita

queenteree

I kind of disagree with most of you. As Hope said, alcoholism is not a curable disease. My husband relapsed after over 14 years sober, yet in those 14 years, and the times before and after, he has been a great father and grandfather. My kids remember when they were little, during my husband's drinking years (before his 14 years sobriety) and what do they remember - they remember him teaching them how to ride bikes, they remember him bringing home pumpkins and teaching them how to carve them, they remember him pulling them on the sled in the snow, they remember him popping pop corn and watching movies, they remember him teaching them how to fish - all of this and more with the patience of a saint. They don't remember (and there really weren't any) bad times with him even when he was drunk. Even now, they don't have a problem with his drinking - I do. And I know my kids would be honest with me about it because they always thought I was too hard on him when he picked up again. But you see, back 20 or so years ago, while he was always nice to the kids, there would be some yelling and screaming at each other when WE fought. But you don't need to be an alcoholic to have yelling, screaming and arguing in a marriage. Many non-alcoholics agrue that way too. So what you're all basically saying is that alcoholics shouldn't have the chance to have kids, ever, because they are alcoholics. In life, there are no guarantees with anything, let's not just single out alcoholism.

hopeangel

hi Jeri, i realize reading my post the impression it gives, but it is not the whole story. these are instances and i am not denying them, but it is not the whole picture. ah and i have both learned and grown from the things that have happened, or are at least trying too. it is not the whole picture of who my ah is or our relationship is.

thank you lilac and rita for your thoughts and insite.

queetree - thank you. i couldn't have said that better. my father was alcoholic and all three of his children can honestly say that there never was a problem. he was a great dad and gave us everything. we knew he drank when he came home from work, but that was it. it was only after he died that we knew the extent of the problem for my mother. your comments were great and sound exactly like my counselors. the disease does not define the person and who are we to say what kind of fathers they will be?

elizabeth1979

Yep, looks like it will be fine then.

MsPINKAcres

I never said my AH was a bad father. He's not a bad father. I'm not a bad mother. Together we have 5 daughters. We love them very much. But we both have been affected by the disease of alcoholism. Because of this, we made some bad choices as parents, we made some good, but yes, there was some bad. Had we not been affected by this disease, our daughters may have had a more peaceful homelife. They might not struggle with relationships as adults. One of them may not be an active addict living in an abusive relationship, she might not have lost custody of both of her children. Maybe the other girls wouldn't struggle with people pleasing and the inability to set healthy boundaries. I don't know maybe they would even if alcoholism had never entered our homes.

We love our daughters very much. But as we all know, love does not stop this disease from hurting people.

Hope, as you can tell, there are many views on this topic. You will probably need to take what you like & leave the rest. Make the decisions with the purest of hearts, guidance from your HP and the love & support of your AH. That is all any of us can do in any situation.

Rita

queenteree

Elizabeth,
Do I sense some sarcasm in your post?
QT

HolyQow

I don't see the rush, if you are going to adopt, you can do that at any age...say, five years from now when he is healthier or not. If he doesn't get his liver fixed, and be honest with the doctor, then he may not be around to raise these kids.

I cannot imagine in my wildest dream, having to have a conversation about not harming the kids! If you need to do this, then you need to rethink this situation........

Everyone is tip-toeing over your feelings but they are telling you loud and clear from first hand experience that this is not a situation to bring kids into....I'm sorry, you asked, but you don't want to hear the answer.

These questions are on an adoption paper for a reason. It has been thought out, to what kind of home these children should be placed in....and if anyone is going to lie on those forms, or avoid telling the doctor the truth to avoid lieing on these forms, they are not the kind of people that I would want adopting a child. Adopted children are sometimes more special because they are wanted.....while I don't doubt that you want a child, an alcoholic wants nothing other than his needs met....the word selfish is usually first in describing most alcoholics. Childish is another.


I believe everything works out the way it does for a reason.

queenteree

My kids grew up for several years in an alcoholic household. My oldest son is a very successful mortgage broker and Account Exec, my daughter was a high school drop out who went on to marry an alcoholic, who she then threw out after she had two children and proceeded to go back to school to get her GED and attend college for nursing - she is now a nurse, raising her two girls on her own with no child support and no father in the picture at all (IMO not due to his alcoholism, due to the kind person he is, alcoholic or not, and he was not raised in an alcoholic household), and my youngest is a computer wiz. Funny how things work out. There is no instruction manual for raising kids, as parents we all make mistakes, regardless.