dogandbooklover

I've heard this saying my whole life and have been wondering about it lately. In general, I tend to believe that if you are abusive to another person you'll always be abusive. If you're unfaithful to one person you'll be unfaithful to another person. If you're a pedophile you'll always be a pedophile. And so on. Though I KNOW it's possible a person can change, in these cicumstances they don't ever seem to. But, the 'once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic' has me stumped. I have a close family member who was most definitely an alcoholic when he was younger. His life pretty much revolved around the bottle, but after a car accident about 20 or so years ago he quit cold turkey. The accident was his fault and his family was in the car. No one was injured badly, but that did it for him. About 13 years he began having a glass or two of wine or champagne on special ocassions. At weddings, on Christmas, anniversaries and the like. It NEVER goes beyond that and it has not progressed. He doesn't drink at home or when going out to dinner. It's only on very special ocassions.

My questions: What is this called? Is he still an alcoholic who now knows how to drink in moderation? Is he a recovering alcoholic? Was he ever an alcoholic in the first place? (I believe that he was). I always hear recovering alcoholics say that if they ever take that first drink then it's all over. Is an alcoholic who never drinks again always considered to be an alcoholic or a recovering alcoholic? Is it possible for alcoholics to learn to drink in moderation?

Just some thoughts and questions and I had. I thought you lovely people may have the answers.

mallowcup

Any one of those possibilities could be true. Not everyone who drinks too much is an alcoholic. Recovery works too. I don't there are any absolutes.

dollydo

I always like the optimistic approach "Recovering A", an "A" will always be an "A", it's just a matter if they are active or non-active.

Dolly

Kellye C

In the Big Book it talks about the different kinds of drinker and it describes one who is a problem drinker (potential alcoholic) except they haven't crossed that invisible line into alcoholism yet. At that point they can still quit if sufficiently motivated (say by an accident).

I hit that point I believe when I was 19 or so and I was able to scale way back and barely drank until 35 when I picked back up and crossed that invisible line. Perhaps your family member did the same?

Hugs,
Kellye

Nuudawn

You hear of these stories...like mystical Greek legends..lol. I have no idea as to how to answer this question. I'm an A and a codie. My life became completely consumed by alcohol and I truly believe that I do not process alcohol in the same way a non-alcoholic does. For me, to try drinking after any length of sobriety is a life and death risk.

If the family member was young and simply a hard partier at the time of the incident...he might not have been or ever have become an alcoholic. I look back to my 20's and the hard partying my friends and I did (we were all the same back then)...they grew out of it...I did not. I crossed the line.

denny57

Depends on if you believe in the disease of alcoholism.

WantsOut

Well, when I was in my 20s I drank waaaaay to much. I made trouble, cheated on boyfriends when I didn't mean to, made a fool of myself, the whole nine yards. I also got a DUI when I was 27. However, I wasn't an alcoholic because I never craved alcohol. I was self-destructive and alcohol was a convenient vehicle for my goal. A few months after the DUI I was drinking again and I decided to take off all my clothes and pass out on the couch. In the morning my young son saw me like that and was very afraid and upset. I never drank again. That was ... oh god ... nine years ago.

I could technically drink if I wanted to but the memories of those days make me sick and I never want to do anything so horrible and shameful again. Perhaps your relative was like me in the past but feels secure enough about himself to drink normally now. As for me, I'm not interested. My world is fine without booze.

laurie6781

Early in recovery an "Old Timer" that I really respected said this to me:

"All Alcoholics are problems drinkers, but not all problem drinkers are alcoholics."

Then went on to explain that a 'problem drinker' given enough motivation ie loss of family, and accident as you described, loss of job, etc can turn their life around and some are able later on to take a drink now and thenl An alcoholic on the other hand has crossed that "invisible line" and there is no option of "moderation" in their drinking.

I am an alcoholic. I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. I am also a "recovering alcoholic, for over 25 years now, (one who continues to grow and change and work on ones self).

Hope that helps.

Love and hugs,

ohio73

I do believe that an alcoholic is always an alcoholic. Drinking alcohol is a symptom of alcoholism - there is a lot more to it than just drinking. That is why recovery takes work - the alcoholic needs to change way more than just not drinking to be successful. BUT - the physical "allergy" to alcohol remains. Someone said above there are also people who are not alcoholics, but abuse alcohol. These people can stop is motivated with little problem. They may have physical withdrawl, but when it is over, that's that. For the real alcoholic, it takes more than just not picking up.

dogandbooklover

Congrats to you!

What you said makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking my family was just a 'problem drinker' though at the time it was out of control. Maybe he was young enough to realize that stopping then and there was what he had to do before he became a true alcoholic. He was in his 30's. For my husband though, I believe that he's one of those people who will have to steer clear of alcohol completely when he gets that far (I'm being hopeful here, but not unreasonably so). He at least realizes he has a serious problem and is doing his best to beat it.

Whatever the case, I've seen that problem drinkers can learn to drink in moderation.

GirlInterrupted

Here's the way I look at it... If you are abusive because you were raised that way or you are sick, you can change. If you abuse cause you want to, then don't bother changing because they don't deserve 2nd chances ((ex:: at 13 i got veryy abusive towards people&myself, I seriously could not stop it. It felt like someone else was doing it and I was watching. I had to be medicated. And over the years I have changed A LOT. My step-dad grew up with a good life and was normal as can be. But VERY controling. And that caused him to be abusive. He probally always will be)) Same with unfaithful people. Now pedophiles on the other hand. They AREN'T sick, it's a choice. And i think they deserve to be tortured and killed that way we don't have to worry about them chaning or not. Harsh..i know, but oh well. I have no sympathy for them, just pure hate.



An exsperiance like that can change anyone.. Or at least should. I have a friend who is on drugs && his best friend died as of a result ((they were both high and his friend got on top of the car and he drove around, his friend fell off and died)) And he still does drugs, but even worse now. As if he doesn't care. The exsperiance should have changed him, but obviously he was too cold of a person to allow any posotive change in his life. I think that has to do with things he doesn't let resurface, bad things that happened to him. Like having sex with his mom. But thats another story.


Everyone has a choice. If someone wants to change bad enough they can. If they want to learn to drink in moderation they can.... If someone had an eating disorder, then recovered and wanted to learn to diet without falling back into their old ways. they could do it. It just comes from within.

Nuudawn

GirlInterrupted,
I vehemently agree that everyone has a choice to learn to drink moderately. Wow. That may be the difficulty you have with your BF. I don't buy into the "disease" word re alcoholism. I am an alcoholic but I can't define myself as having a disease. I have difficulties with allergies...and I can more easily accept that my reaction to alcohol is my allergic in nature. I start to drink and I don't want to stop. If one more time I beleived I could learn to drink in moderation...I would like die trying.

What I do know..if I have a very toxic relationship with my self. That is something I can make choices on. I can choose to drink or not to drink..that is the only choice I have to remain sane and alive.

T.

jimhere

I'm a recovered alcoholic, but I'm still an alcoholic. If I put alcohol in my system, the results would be the same as they were sixteen years ago when I stopped. Doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes in this human experience I'm having, but I don't suffer from alcoholism.

As for an abuser always being an abuser, that is not always true. I was abusive towards my now former wife in every sense of the word. And I didn't have to be drinking either. But I've been changed by the Power of God. That has happened through the process of the 12 Steps and through living a spiritual way of life. I'm not capable of that anymore. Just ask my former wife , my mother, or my son.
Jim

dogandbooklover

All of your replies are very interesting and make a lot of sense.

GI - I don't know exactly where pedophiles fit. Some say it's a mental disorder, some say it's a perverted choise. Whatever the reason, I'm with you. They deserve punishement of the harshest kind.

Nuudawn - I am not an alcoholic, but I also don't believe that alcoholism is a disease. It's a choice. Good wishes on your continuing recovery.

Jim - Okay, to me this makes sense. You will always be an alcoholic, but you consider yourself to be a 'recovered' alcoholic, not 'recovering'. This explanation is understandable.

I know that abusers, cheaters and the like are capable of change. However, it just seems like the majority of the time they choose not to. That's wonderful that you have made that change.

A question for you? Do you believe that alcoholics can learn to drink in moderation? I understand that this is impossible for you, but do you think it's possible for others? Have you seen it happen?

tracy1963

From what I've seen/know, alcoholics aren't able to drink in moderation. I've never heard of one who could, no matter how long they've stopped drinking for. I've also heard that many started out drinking in moderation and then one day find they can no longer do that. Some have told me that they have never been able to drink in moderation.
I am addicted to cigarettes. I've stopped smoking many times, sometimes for years. I always think I can have just one. That is how I always get hooked again. Because I can't have just one. I wish I could. But I can't. Even if that first one is completely awful, I will keep smoking until I like it again. When I first started smoking, I thought I would just have that one, so I would know what it was like. I don't even remember if I liked it or not, but I immediately picked up the habit. I know many people who can have one or two smokes every few months or so, and have never acquired the habit. I wish I could be like that. But I can't. That is the closest I've ever come to truly understanding addiction. I don't know if it is actually a disease or an allergy or merely something to do with thought processes. Maybe it is a choice at some point in the process.

BigGirlPanties

The big book can answer all your questions on the matter.

Zoey

Big Book on line http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/

laurie6781

D&B Lover, sorry I will respectfully have to disagree with you on this. I drank for 24 years, about 20 of it as an alcoholic. IT IS NOT A CHOICE.

Yes to pick up drinking was a choice, approved of by my parents (I was fully developed at 12 years old and my mom didn't want some guy to be able to take me out and get me drunk back in 1957 and thought it would be better if I learned how to control and enjoy my drinking. Never did learn, I could 'control for a while' or enjoy but never both at the same time, lol) However, the choice was taken away when I UNKNOWINGLY crossed that invisible line into CRAVING alcohol.

Thus becoming an ALCOHOLIC WAS NOT A CHOICE.

You might like to Read "Under The Influence" available at Amazon.com. That will tell you a lot about alcoholism.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

jimhere

There are certain types of hard drinkers that moderate. An old drinking buddy of mine is one of those types. But for the true alcoholic, no I don't believe it can be done.

I've watched alcoholics with long term sobriety start drinking again after 15, 17, in one case 33 years. They did not start where they left off. It was much worse, because the body ages and as it ages, metabolism changes. The man that started drinking after 33 years drank himself to death in less than a year.
Jim

Pick-a-name

I like your analogy....that is how I was with smoking cigarettes and why I don't smoke now (nor haven't in the past 25 yrs) even though even the idea of it I find relaxing.... once Started back up after quitting for months just by lighting a cigarette for someone who was driving.

This also helps me understand "the mental twist" of alcoholism. Thanks.