Follow up to his call yesterday
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
Follow up to his call yesterday
As I've mentioned before, I seem to do pretty good when there's no contact involved. Well, like I already posted, he called my co-worker yesterday. She shared the remaining details with me this morning (I was out in the field all day yesterday and just got the basics before). He still just doesn't have a clue why I left him. He told her her he just couldn't understand why I didn't give him a chance. He kept asking her "scenarios" like what she would do if her husband did some of the things he did, and she told him, "I probably would have moved out after the 2nd DWI and not waited for your 3rd." He told her things like all of his friends did it but he just got caught, and the stuff I already mentioned yesterday about how three alcohol counselors just think he's an abuser. All this stuff confuses me. It just seems unfathomable to me that he can't grasp why I moved out. I guess I should just write it off and try to forget about it, but I still find myself wanting him to at the very least understand why I left. Even if he said, "You know what? I still want to drink my life away, but I understand that you can't be a part of that anymore," then it would help! I know that I am just going to have to get over that, but it's back in my head again. I kind of had gotten over it, but now hearing all this stuff again starts messing with my mind. How can anyone not understand?????? HOW???? One thing that did help was that my co-worker said it was so uncanny how the things he was saying sound exactly like what her cocaine-addicted sister says. That was reassuring in some ways. Yet somehow, I feel like I'm back in the self-doubting thing again. I was doing SO GOOD! 
Practicing the lion's roar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
My ex-husband (not an addict) professed to not understand why I didn't take him back after he left me, despite countless explanations. I figured that if he STILL didn't get it, he would never understand ME well enough to be a good partner for me. After that I found it a lot easier not to care what he said or did.
Please remember that we all understand why you left--probably because our thought processes aren't muddled by alcohol. Most importantly, YOU understand why you left, and ultimately that's the only thing that matters.
(((hugs)))
Please remember that we all understand why you left--probably because our thought processes aren't muddled by alcohol. Most importantly, YOU understand why you left, and ultimately that's the only thing that matters.
(((hugs)))
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
I don't think this is unusual, TG. Last time I talked to Rich, he didn't seem to understand anything either. Kept calling me "babe" after all this time. Denial is a powerful thing- for us and for them. What you're hearing, I think, is his. It's a huge barrier to any real communication with an addict. Our actions are the only thing that may impact them, but I don't think our actions are enough to make them "understand" anything. A hard lesson for me to learn has been-- maybe he doesn't have to understand. Our job is to keep working on ourselves so we worry less about what they understand, and focus more on what we understand to be true. His quacking is still causing you to lose your power and confidence. What can you do about that? This second-hand communication might not be helping you any. Maybe the time has come to really start cutting all ties?
Someone here once said something like, you can't enforce a boundary and worry about hurting someone's feelings. It's so hard. I know.
(hugs)
Someone here once said something like, you can't enforce a boundary and worry about hurting someone's feelings. It's so hard. I know.
(hugs)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Yes, it IS denial but is also basic, fundamental disrespect for you. His unwillingness to understand WHY you left says to me that he doesn't take what you say seriously or even really listen to what you have said to him!
Let's just say he wants to take the subject "off the table" like somebody would do in a business negotiation: "There is no room for negotiation for that particular aspect of our bargain, so I'm taking it off the table." You talk and he doesn't listen. Subject closed.
You can drive yourself nuts with repeatedly asking "Why?". The bottom-line answer is he is an addict and he is doing precisely what an addict would do: on his own timeline with his own agenda. You, in reality, do not figure into the equation in his mind.
Let's just say he wants to take the subject "off the table" like somebody would do in a business negotiation: "There is no room for negotiation for that particular aspect of our bargain, so I'm taking it off the table." You talk and he doesn't listen. Subject closed.
You can drive yourself nuts with repeatedly asking "Why?". The bottom-line answer is he is an addict and he is doing precisely what an addict would do: on his own timeline with his own agenda. You, in reality, do not figure into the equation in his mind.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
The more this nonsense goes on the clearer it is that not only doesn't he get it, he never will and any further efforts would be a waste of your time. I would put immediate miles of distance between you, your husband and this coworker. Usually people who don't hang up on calls like that are just a apt to report to him what you are doing and saying. This co worker is just a conduit he is using to shuttle information and his influence. I might even say so. I'd ask the coworker if it had occured to her why she was suddenly in the middle of this and didn't she resent being used?
Always hopeful...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 429
TG, I feel where you're at. DID you not tell him what you were feeling, how his drinking was causing a problem in your lives, etc? I imagine you did, go back over how many times you said it, how many times you had the discussions w/ him. He just can't believe you really are done! DENIAL!!
I suppose they are a little right in wanting to believe we AREN'T REALLY done this time, if we have caved before. Don't know your details, but I had several times I wanted to be done, and turned back around for one more attempt-CUZ we wanted it to work so badly...and our own denial. So, when it is that last straw to us, they don't really believe we have become that determined.
They still are on their own page of the story. AND, yes to many of them what they do is not so bad. Wasn't it yours that talked about so 'n so and what had happened in their situation....and was disgusted with that relationships behaviour. BUT, they don't see their own as disturbing anyone's life, cuz they don't think it is. I'm babbling, but hope you can understand.
What will make you feel better? Do you need to put it in writing so there is no doubt that you have made yourself clear? Wouldn't the divorce papers make it loud & clear? I "get" where you're at. BUT, as everyone has said above, it is denial and his lack of respect for how you really feel and have tried to tell him, over & over.....
I suppose they are a little right in wanting to believe we AREN'T REALLY done this time, if we have caved before. Don't know your details, but I had several times I wanted to be done, and turned back around for one more attempt-CUZ we wanted it to work so badly...and our own denial. So, when it is that last straw to us, they don't really believe we have become that determined.
They still are on their own page of the story. AND, yes to many of them what they do is not so bad. Wasn't it yours that talked about so 'n so and what had happened in their situation....and was disgusted with that relationships behaviour. BUT, they don't see their own as disturbing anyone's life, cuz they don't think it is. I'm babbling, but hope you can understand.
What will make you feel better? Do you need to put it in writing so there is no doubt that you have made yourself clear? Wouldn't the divorce papers make it loud & clear? I "get" where you're at. BUT, as everyone has said above, it is denial and his lack of respect for how you really feel and have tried to tell him, over & over.....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
He's found a weakness to play on. So long as he can stimulate you to explain, he has the ability to get your attention. You would be able to walk away cleanly if he understood why you were doing it. If this is a problem, a weak link in your recovery, write him a letter that explains it clearly. make your self copy and send him the other. When he needs to refresh his memory, he can reread what you have written instead of asking you again, calling you or your coworker. I would also be very matter of fact with the coworker. If she is going to continue to discuss your personal life with him, and she is free to do that, you will have to minimize contact with her. I'd say that right out loud and politely. Maybe it will occur to her that she is way out of line to be having these discussions.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
I have to disagree on this one.
I think he understands completely why you left. I have watched you here for a long time, I have seen how much you have struggled with this and how he has played you during your growth to get this far.
Sweetie, you were completely thorough in your journey…. All along you have communicated your wants, needs, heartache to this man. I don’t think he is in denial at all…. I think he would like to be and is trying really hard to talk himself into denial but today … He knows exactly why and he is manipulating you… or trying.
Just my opinion hon… Take what you want.
I think he understands completely why you left. I have watched you here for a long time, I have seen how much you have struggled with this and how he has played you during your growth to get this far.
Sweetie, you were completely thorough in your journey…. All along you have communicated your wants, needs, heartache to this man. I don’t think he is in denial at all…. I think he would like to be and is trying really hard to talk himself into denial but today … He knows exactly why and he is manipulating you… or trying.
Just my opinion hon… Take what you want.
Practicing the lion's roar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
Or perhaps he's trying to appear as a sympathetic character to the co-worker in hopes that she'll either try to talk you into taking him back, or, maybe he's testing her to see if she's codie enough to take him on.
Total speculation on my part, naturally.
Total speculation on my part, naturally.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by mallowcup 
If she is going to continue to discuss your personal life with him, and she is free to do that, you will have to minimize contact with her. I'd say that right out loud and politely. Maybe it will occur to her that she is way out of line to be having these discussions.
Always hopeful...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 429
Cynay, you are prolly right with the manipulation. See, how the experience enlightens us.
He's down to the wire and is prolly trying to pull some strings here....
I still think in their "distorted" minds at times they just don't believe we are going ahead with our plans, but to be this close, yeh, you're right....he knows.
He's down to the wire and is prolly trying to pull some strings here....
I still think in their "distorted" minds at times they just don't believe we are going ahead with our plans, but to be this close, yeh, you're right....he knows.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
I only suggest the letter because you need tangible closure. I think as you drop the letter into the mailbox and send it down the shoot, it is an act of total closure for you. Between him and the coworker you keep getting sucked in.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Hey TG I'll take a shot at this one...
You will not communicate with him so he got your coworkers ear and he bent it good, all in the hopes that his message would get back to you. Simple as that. Why your coworker feels the need to "care take", or "share her wisdom" (fix) him/you... who knows, mute point.
The way I see it, (been threads on this subject before too) there is no closure w/ an active addict. Try as you might, your feelings fall on deaf ears before, during and after the break up, just as they did during the relationship. Does he know he screwed up? Sure he does, they all do. I know this sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Let that be enough or you'll have a hard time moving on. You can seek validation from an active addict but good luck getting it.
You will not communicate with him so he got your coworkers ear and he bent it good, all in the hopes that his message would get back to you. Simple as that. Why your coworker feels the need to "care take", or "share her wisdom" (fix) him/you... who knows, mute point.
The way I see it, (been threads on this subject before too) there is no closure w/ an active addict. Try as you might, your feelings fall on deaf ears before, during and after the break up, just as they did during the relationship. Does he know he screwed up? Sure he does, they all do. I know this sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Let that be enough or you'll have a hard time moving on. You can seek validation from an active addict but good luck getting it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
it's been two years of explaining to my xah....and he still says "but why????"
he says why did you leave when i was sick, why did you just throw me away like a piece of garbage, why did you throw away our wedding vows, why, why, why........
in my experience, they just keep trying to angle in, and do alot of confusing talk to throw us off balance, and do a lot of pitying of themselves.
they will seldom say....well, it's because i'm an alcoholic and have behaved horribly and i still don't want the help.
jmho
love to you
jeri
he says why did you leave when i was sick, why did you just throw me away like a piece of garbage, why did you throw away our wedding vows, why, why, why........
in my experience, they just keep trying to angle in, and do alot of confusing talk to throw us off balance, and do a lot of pitying of themselves.
they will seldom say....well, it's because i'm an alcoholic and have behaved horribly and i still don't want the help.
jmho
love to you
jeri
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
hmmmmm.....never thought of it like that....always thought he was the one that was slick talking me back into it all again.....
you've got a point there....i wasn't sticking to what i said i was going to do....i always let him talk me outta it, therefore, he was the slickster.
but if i turn it around, i was just maybe keeping him confused....oh well, we were even scored then.
good point ltd.
jeri
you've got a point there....i wasn't sticking to what i said i was going to do....i always let him talk me outta it, therefore, he was the slickster.
but if i turn it around, i was just maybe keeping him confused....oh well, we were even scored then.
good point ltd.
jeri
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
You all make very good points. I just can't believe how this has me whacked back out!
One thing Jazz said really stood out to me... "Try as you might, your feelings fall on deaf ears before, during and after the break up, just as they did during the relationship." You're right...not one thing has changed, has it? He didn't hear me then so why should he get me now?
One good thing about all of this...it makes it very clear that I am doing much better when we don't have any interaction, even via someone else. It makes me that much more ready to get through the divorce. I guess I just want to cut ties and get it all over with. I don't want to have to feel like this ever again as long as I live. I don't want to worry about these kinds of things. I went to the courthouse during lunch today to see if I had all the forms I needed to proceed. If all goes well, I will be officially filed by tomorrow.
One thing Jazz said really stood out to me... "Try as you might, your feelings fall on deaf ears before, during and after the break up, just as they did during the relationship." You're right...not one thing has changed, has it? He didn't hear me then so why should he get me now?
One good thing about all of this...it makes it very clear that I am doing much better when we don't have any interaction, even via someone else. It makes me that much more ready to get through the divorce. I guess I just want to cut ties and get it all over with. I don't want to have to feel like this ever again as long as I live. I don't want to worry about these kinds of things. I went to the courthouse during lunch today to see if I had all the forms I needed to proceed. If all goes well, I will be officially filed by tomorrow.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
