dayxday

This was mentioned at a meeting and I didn't get a chance to ask about it, although I have felt many times in my situation like this is what happened to me. My character and integrity were degraded - something I am really struggling to deal with and put behind me.

The reference was that A's do this type of thing along with the drama, the gossip etc.

Can anyone explain this to me or lead me to where I would find reference in one of my AA or alanon books?

Thanks

prodigal

God knows I am all too familiar with character assassination. I've been accused of attempting suicide - he called the cops on me. Hey, the only meds I take are for allergies and asthma and I certainly wouldn't want to o.d. on my inhalers! I've been accused of stealing from him, destroying his private property, accused twice of trying to "kill" him, told I'm a golddigger and opportunist, and ... well, you get my drift.

As far as readings go, when he starts into one of his "let me explain to you what a piece of b.s. you are" tirades, I say the Serenity Prayer over and over. I also go back through all my literature that deals with the third step. That's when I make a conscious decision to turn my life over to my Higher Power because I know he (or she) loves me and believes I am worthwhile. That's when it's reinforced in me that no matter what AH says, I know deep down inside that he is WRONG.

As far as finding specific pages in any AA or Al-anon literature that directly addresses "character assassination," I can't recall. I am sure someone here will be far more capable than I of directing to you readings that specifically discuss this.

Tally

You should get alot of advice on this one, I think we've all been there at some point...

I've been every bad name in the book...and then some..

boring, no fun, uptight, crazy, insane, stupid, thick, lazy, a waste of space, crap girlfriend, crap mother, a mug, no personality and then some expletives I'd better not mention!

I used to find it very hurtful and sometimes on days where I'm feeling down it can still get to me a bit, although the rages are very few and far between these days since I decided to no longer listen to him when he's bein nasty...

I used to be terribly hurt by these things...but after coming here and reading and reading and reading...I realised what I already knew deep down, that it wasn't me...He doesn't hate me, he hates himself...

And once I got the not enabling and the detaching rolling I realised that I found his outbursts and "blaming" quite pitiful...and sometimes amusing...

It doesn't matter what they say to you, if you know it's not true then just because they say it is doesn't make it true...

I like a post from another topic on the forum about the "not" blue refridgerator...

Keep reminding yourself that it doesn't matter what somebody who is totally incable of clear thinking thinks about you...quack quack quack...

And...the beauty of it is that you don't HAVE to listen to it either...

Doug

Interesting thread.....my first marriage I was on the receiving end of such attacks, (and since she's still walking the earth, I still am receiving them), and one thing I found was after years of this abuse, some started to stick, or become ways I thought about myself.

One of the single, most important lessons my drug rehab counselor spent time teaching me was: "don't take personal attacks, personally"

There are so many reasons why they happen, they probably can't all be listed, but the one that just isn't possible is because of something we did, or how we are.

Even something as simple as name calling, criticizing, comes from within the person doing the attacking, and stems from thier own fears and insecurities, and grows from there.

Good thread.

Rusty Zipper

"Self-righteous anger also can be very enjoyable. In a perverse way we can actually take satisfaction from the fact that many people annoy us, for it brings a comfortable feeling of superiority. Gossip barbed with our anger, a polite form of murder by character assassination, has its satisfactions for us, too. Here we are not trying to help those we criticize; we are trying to proclaim our own righteousness." [12&12, page 67, line 7]

as my lady was quickly dieing do to mass quanitys of pills, crack and booze...

what i got was... do you have "MD" after your name...

as being on both sides... i'm in recovery

Day, please do not take it to heart... we dont mean it, its just what we do.

good wishes...................... xxoo, rz

embraced2000

rz.....whew!!! everytime i get all antsy about accepting alcoholism as a disease........i am capable of just getting p!ssed and ranting on about how i have a disease, too, but it doesn't get me arrested, doesn't make me abusive, doesn't make me shirk my respons., etc............i read something like your post, and it just blows back my hair!

what you quoted re: self-righteous anger......that is carbon copy of xah behavior. i have never been able to explain his attitude to myself....but you did. and sometimes, i can see myself in that statement.

bout the time i have myself convinced that he is just a worthless piece of chit and is an insult to alcoholics, i read something like your post, and i am humbled, once again.

thanks
jeri

denny57

I think it works both ways. Funny, whenever I read the bit Rusty quoted, I think of myself.

justme2007

I've heard that when I have one finger pointed at you, I have one pointed at myself too. We criticize others the most about defects we recognize in ourselves. Plus I've also heard that I need to keep my side of the street clean: I have an obligation to treat people with patience, tolerance and love (while taking care of myself/having boundaries at the same time), without worrying about their behavior.

I have also heard that when I'm spiritually fit, I don't judge people. I've been very spiritually UNFIT lately, but it's "progress not perfection." :-)

Just more ramblings as I'm trying to get my head in the game again . . .

Grasshopper

Can't squeeze,orange juice out of an apple.
All that i give to others,is in,the, exact manner all that i think/feel about myself.
If i define another,i just have defined myself,by my own perceptions.
No one can hurt me,in any way,without my own permission.Its hard,when others say and do hurtful things,but i now have the tools of recovery program ,and fellowship to help me to not take seriously what a hurting person says.Hurting folks do their best to hurt others.Prayers for them,and for myself that i dont let it get to me.

dayxday

Many of these responses are exactly what I am asking about – from both an AA and an Alanon view.

My situation is very similar to this. My AH called police with false accusations. His family is all A’s – they jumped on board and for the last two months, I was constantly under attack from my AH’s behaviors as well as his entire family’s behaviors.

Although in some ways these behaviors pushed me to where I am today, I found alanon (for which I am very thankful) and my AH finding his way to a treatment center and is working on recovery. (for which I am also thankful)

I am working with a therapist and this character assasination issue has been the hardest thing for me to deal with.
#1. I am really struggling with resentment for the way I have been treated many times by people that I have shown love and kindness to and extended help to many times over the years. This last bout of behaviors was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
#2 I am also struggling with why I myself did not put a stop to it long ago and continued to allow my AH and his family to treat me this way.

Part of the problem is I don’t know if my AH will ever be able to understand that since he is trying to work on his disease, I am willing to work on forgiveness and move on with him…….. Since his family members have no desire to stop their drinking and or A behaviors, and continue to with their assassination and drama behaviors, I do not choose to ever be around them and don’t even want to forgive them for their behaviors.

Since this is a road block for both he and I right now, I am hoping to find common ground for both my AH and I to work from in understanding this type of behavior so that it does not continue to be an issue between us but one that we can both accept to help our recovery.

I expect to hear back that I have to change my thinking. I am working on it and everytime someone says something to me to remind me it helps me to put things in perspective.

No hurt feelings if someone tells me something I don't want to hear - my way wasn't working before and I am finding it much better trying the alanon way.

Thanks everyone for listening. I feel better already!!!

Acushla

Interesting thread. Hi, I'm signing on to acknowledge that I am a gold digger, irrational, overly emotional, clumsy, forgetful, incapable and, the best one yet, "weak".

Otherwise he loves me!

StandingStrong

For way too long, I accepted the blame, the insults, and the verbal abuse. For far too long, I wondered if some of it was true and even came to believe some of it.

But one thing that really sticks in my mind these days, for the past few months is this:

If I really were all of those things - or if AH really believed those things of me - why would he have wanted me back anyways?

I don't know the reasons they do this - I'm sure there are many - but I do know that just because someone says something, it doesn't make it true.

denny57

I don't know if it's true, but I just flipped it and it made sense to me. I said mean, nasty, judgmental and poor victim me things to: gain sympathy, justify my "my life is so hard" mentality and, most importantly, to cover up the absolute fear I had over something I could not control. Alcoholism is terrifying - for everyone involved.

WantsOut

Thought I'd join in the fun since this is very timely for me. I've been dodging attacks for a few weeks now and honestly they've been getting me down.

I've been called selfish, unable to love, emotionally unavailable, I have no empathy, I'm needy, unbalanced, have issues, and I don't believe in unconditional love.

Ugh. It's also supposedly not about his alcoholism. I just fell out of love (like I supposedly always do) and am using it as an excuse. I guess I imagined all those nights he was passed out on the couch.

Someone once told me that when people accuse you of being selfish, what they really mean is that you refuse to put their needs before yours. It's just a guilt trip to make you ignore your own best interest. I'm trying to hang on to that thought.

mallowcup

It's really a pretty serious thing as a matter of fact, it's slander and you can bring suit against someone for it. Slander effects out parents, our kids, our work reputation, our recovery. Since the term slander is defined legally, it is punishable leagally. Sticks and stones can break out bones and words can break out hearts and reputations. I do belive that you can shut someone up. Is it worth it? Yes, sometimes I think it is.

mazey

Hurting people, hurt others....that is very true and thought provoking.
At the end of "our" relationship, I think we both wanted to hurt each other.

Rusty Zipper

Day wrote Day, now were into another can'o worms...

"Expectations"... when i get home, il'l toss a few syllables in on that subject...

you know what they say about expectations.... ouch!!!

dayxday

Rusty
It’s interesting … I have thought about the resentment issues and rolled through my mind that it ties into my expectations.

I know I can’t control what others do or say, sure have learned that the hard way.

What I do know is that my AH has grown up in an A family that has these A behaviors. He is the first in the family to actually attempt to face his disease. He is out of treatment now, but still involved with his family. He himself hasn’t addressed these behaviors and 1 week out of treatment I still see him practicing some of these. He went to his mother’s the other day and she sat there at drank in front of him, told him she likes to drink and she is not going to stop drinking around him because he has a problem.

We are still separated – he wants to come home. I am willing to work on our relationship but knowing that he doesn’t see their behaviors or recognize the hurt I feel from what he and they have put me through puts me into a mind frame of “lack of trust” – fear that he and they will be complacent for now but if this not addressed I will end up right back where I started. He is upset that I won’t just let him come back home right now.

My hope is that through AA and counseling he will see if he doesn’t work on this they will interfere again and I won’t be able to regain trust in him, because it’s his family and he is allowing it. Seems to me it would be easier for him if he just stayed away from them but he doesn’t seem ready to do that yet.

The whole thing confuses me – I know he has to take the right path for him to maintain sobriety and change his A behaviors but in the meantime how the h*** do I get rid of the resentment and expectations so that I can find peace in my mind and heart.

Looking forward to your comments on expectations – hey I need all the help I can get

Rusty Zipper

day, this little dity might be of some use for you...


Expectations
By Robert Burney M.A.
"I spent most of my life doing the Serenity prayer backwards, that is, trying to change the external things over which I had no control - other people and life events mostly - and taking no responsibility (except shaming and blaming myself) for my own internal process - over which I can have some degree of control. Having some control is not a bad thing; trying to control something or somebody over which I have no control is what is dysfunctional."
Codependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls

Self-honesty is the foundation of the Twelve Step Recovery program - the principle underling the first step. There are many different levels of honesty, including "cash register" honesty, emotional honesty, being honest in interactions with others, etc. All levels of honesty are important in various ways but early in my recovery process I learned a great deal about being honest with myself from Dr. Paul's chapter in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous - "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict." That level of honesty had to do with being honest with myself about my expectations.

There is an old joke about the difference between a neurotic and a psychotic. The psychotic truly believes that 2 + 2 = 5. The neurotic knows that it is 4 but can't stand it. That was the way I lived most of my life, I could see how life was but I couldn't stand it. I was always feeling like a victim because people and life were not acting in the way I believed they "should" act.

I expected life to be different than it is. I thought if I was good and did it "right" then I would reach 'happily ever after.' I believed that if I was nice to people they would be nice to me. Because I grew up in a society where people were taught that other people could control their feelings, and vise versa, I had spent most of my life trying to control the feelings of others and blaming them for my feelings.

By having expectations I was giving power away. In order to become empowered I had to own that I had choices about how I viewed life, about my expectations. I realized that no one can make me feel hurt or angry - that it is my expectations that cause me to generate feelings of hurt of anger. In other words, the reason I feel hurt or anger is because other people, life, or God are not doing what I want them, expect them, to do.

I had to learn to be honest with myself about my expectations - so I could let go of the ones that were insane (like, everyone is going to drive the way I want them to), and own my choices - so I could take responsibility for how I was setting myself up to be a victim in order to change my patterns. Accept the things I cannot change - change the things I can.

When I first started realizing how much my expectations were dictating my emotional reactions to life, I tried not to have any expectations. I soon came to realize that it was impossible to live in society and not have expectations. If I have electricity in my home I am going to expect the lights to come on - and if they don't, I am going to have feelings about it. If I own that having electricity is a choice I make, then I realize that I am not being the victim of the electric company I am just experiencing a life event. And life events occur for me to learn from - not to punish me.

The more I owned that I was making choices that caused me to give away some power over my feelings and that those feelings were ultimately my responsibility - the less I reacted out of a victim place - the more serenity I had about events that occurred. To believe that unpleasant stuff should never happen to me was a truly insane, dysfunctional notion. The reality of life is that 'stuff' happens.

Of course, getting to the place where I could accept life on life's terms was only possible because I was working on letting go of the belief that it was happening to me because I was unworthy and bad - which I learned growing up in a shame-based society. It was essential for me to stop blaming myself and feeling ashamed of being human so that I could stop blaming others and always feeling like a victim. In other words, it was necessary to start seeing life as a Spiritual growth process that I couldn't control in order to get out of the blame them or blame me cycle.

I found that there were layers of expectations I had to look at. I wanted to feel that I could be a righteous victim if someone told me they were going to do something and didn't. But then I had to own that I was the one who chose to believe them. I had to also realize that falling in love was a choice and not a trap that I accidentally stepped into. Loving is a choice that I make and the consequences of that choice are my responsibility not the other persons. As long as I kept buying into the belief that I was being victimized by the person I loved there was no chance of having a healthy relationship.

The most insidious level of expectations for me had to do with my expectations of myself. The "critical parent" voice in my head has always berated me for not being perfect, for being human. My expectations, the "shoulds," my disease piled on me were a way in which I victimized myself. I was always judging, shaming and beating myself up because as a little child I got the message that something was wrong with me.

There is nothing wrong with me - or you. It is our relationship with ourselves and life that is dysfunctional. We are Spiritual beings who came into body in an emotionally dishonest, Spiritually hostile environment where everyone was trying to do human according to false belief systems. We were taught to expect life to be something that it isn't. It isn't our fault that things are so screwed up - it is however our responsibility to change the things we can within ourself.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


God/Goddess/Great Spirit, help me to access:
the serenity to accept the things I cannot change (life, other people),
The courage and willingness to change the things I can (me, my own attitudes and behaviors),

And the wisdom and clarity to know the difference.

(adapted version of Serenity Prayer)

Serenity is not Freedom from the Storm - it is Peace Amidst the Storm. (unknown)

Rusty Zipper

jeri... a big whew on this one!... hiya denny, mazey, ect... thanks for put'n up with all of our antics, hijinx, and shanagans...

but the real bottom line is...

just keep working on yourselfs...

the more time i spend takeing a look at my past, and present... the more i never want to put anyone through that hell again...

xxoo, rz