How would you respond?
Practicing the lion's roar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
How would you respond?
A quick recap of my situation... I live with and am engaged to an active A. Over a month ago he promised that by the end of the holidays he's going to quit drinking at home and just drink "socially." To date his actions suggest he's not going to reach his goal and I'm quietly preparing to break it off and move out. Thanks to Al-Anon and all the support here, I no longer do the codie stuff and don't engage him when he pushes my buttons, which isn't too often anymore. He's been on his best behavior as if to convince me that his drinking isn't a problem.
So last night, he's drunk, we's talking in bed, and he brings up wedding plans. We've booked a reception room at a restaurant on a lake, and it's a very informal arrangement. He said we should call the lady that runs it and start planning a menu, and see if the rental cabins she's got will be available for our family members (the wedding is supposed to be out of town).
So he's talking like this, and all I can think is "You know I'm going to leave you if you don't sober up and yet you talk about getting married while you're drunk?" I want to say that there's no way I'll think about marrying him until/unless he's sobered up for good, or at least that we should wait until after the holidays to do anything, but I don't. I just lie there and say nothing except maybe an occasional noise to let him know I'm awake.
I guess I didn't want to say anything inflammatory because he was drunk, but now I'm wondering if that was the right thing to do. So often, I just bite my tongue to keep the peace at home, and usually that's fine, but I keep getting the feeling that my silence makes him think that I'm becoming OK with the drinking, when in fact I'm NOT, to the point where I expect to move out this winter. I feel so dishonest and yet can't bring myself to risk another huge argument. I don't fear that he'll get violent or anything... just nasty.
So, my question is, how would you have handled this? Was I right to keep quiet? Is it acceptable to let him think everything's ok when it isn't? Not that I can control what he thinks, and not that I know for sure that he really DOES think everything's ok... but still.
Thanks in advance!
So last night, he's drunk, we's talking in bed, and he brings up wedding plans. We've booked a reception room at a restaurant on a lake, and it's a very informal arrangement. He said we should call the lady that runs it and start planning a menu, and see if the rental cabins she's got will be available for our family members (the wedding is supposed to be out of town).
So he's talking like this, and all I can think is "You know I'm going to leave you if you don't sober up and yet you talk about getting married while you're drunk?" I want to say that there's no way I'll think about marrying him until/unless he's sobered up for good, or at least that we should wait until after the holidays to do anything, but I don't. I just lie there and say nothing except maybe an occasional noise to let him know I'm awake.
I guess I didn't want to say anything inflammatory because he was drunk, but now I'm wondering if that was the right thing to do. So often, I just bite my tongue to keep the peace at home, and usually that's fine, but I keep getting the feeling that my silence makes him think that I'm becoming OK with the drinking, when in fact I'm NOT, to the point where I expect to move out this winter. I feel so dishonest and yet can't bring myself to risk another huge argument. I don't fear that he'll get violent or anything... just nasty.
So, my question is, how would you have handled this? Was I right to keep quiet? Is it acceptable to let him think everything's ok when it isn't? Not that I can control what he thinks, and not that I know for sure that he really DOES think everything's ok... but still.
Thanks in advance!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hanging In There
Posts: 87
Dear All Too Sober
My AH has been pretty much the same. Talks a lot when he is drunk but says things he doesn't mean and can't remember when he wakes up sober.
He has also promised more times than I can remember - he is going to quit or cut down. It never happened. In fact the incidents became worse. Me talking, begging, pleading, silence, sleeping in the other room...... not of it did any good. I even told him I had a "private" dead line date for him to stop drinking and get counseling or I was leaving. My date was Nov 15 and he through his alcoholic behavior managed to propel the situation into Sept 28th.
Well - we are now legally separated - my choice to put him on a time clock if he is serious. Still not sure how I can live with an alcoholic who is now in treatment. I know there is a probability of replapse - scares me terribly.
Being married to him makes it even worse. The ties of the home, mortgage, bills, belongings etc. If he doesn't stay clean, I will convert to a divorce as I can no longer live in his world.
No one can think or speak for you, but you should continue alanon, talk to others and even get legal information. Living with an alcoholic is tough enough - and getting married to him is not going to change his addictions - only he can do that.
There are many posts on this site about people married and living with alcoholics. The more you read their posts the easier it will be to for you to see if you should go forrward with marriage or hold off until he figures out if he wants to get help.
Good luck and prayers to you.
My AH has been pretty much the same. Talks a lot when he is drunk but says things he doesn't mean and can't remember when he wakes up sober.
He has also promised more times than I can remember - he is going to quit or cut down. It never happened. In fact the incidents became worse. Me talking, begging, pleading, silence, sleeping in the other room...... not of it did any good. I even told him I had a "private" dead line date for him to stop drinking and get counseling or I was leaving. My date was Nov 15 and he through his alcoholic behavior managed to propel the situation into Sept 28th.
Well - we are now legally separated - my choice to put him on a time clock if he is serious. Still not sure how I can live with an alcoholic who is now in treatment. I know there is a probability of replapse - scares me terribly.
Being married to him makes it even worse. The ties of the home, mortgage, bills, belongings etc. If he doesn't stay clean, I will convert to a divorce as I can no longer live in his world.
No one can think or speak for you, but you should continue alanon, talk to others and even get legal information. Living with an alcoholic is tough enough - and getting married to him is not going to change his addictions - only he can do that.
There are many posts on this site about people married and living with alcoholics. The more you read their posts the easier it will be to for you to see if you should go forrward with marriage or hold off until he figures out if he wants to get help.
Good luck and prayers to you.
Practicing the lion's roar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
I understand all that you're saying, and I fully realize that the chances of him recovering to the point where I'd be comfortable marrying him are slim to none... that's why I'm making plans to move out. I'm waiting until after the holidays only because I promised him I'd give him that much time to figure it out himself--I hold no illusions about the chances of his success, but a promise is a promise, no matter how many of his he's broken.
Mostly what I'm looking for here are ideas about different ways I could have responded to him when he started talking about the wedding again.
Mostly what I'm looking for here are ideas about different ways I could have responded to him when he started talking about the wedding again.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
My opinion is it doesn't matter right now what you say all that much. I mean, when he's sober, you could verbally reaffirm the boundary that you set, that you're leaving after the holidays if he's not sober by then-- as long as you really mean it and feel ready to do that. (Don't say it if you don't). But he probably doesn't believe you that you'll really leave him anyway. Same way his own promise is hopeful maybe, but unrealistic, and you know that too. If he is an alcoholic, he won't be able to decide to start controling his drinking on January 2nd.
A hard lesson for me to learn was the same. Nothing I said to him mattered. He didn't take me seriously. I didn't realize that the same rules held for me and for him: Actions speak louder than words.
SO don't stress yourself too much. I don't think you're doing the 'wrong' thing by saying something or not right now. The boundaries you set and keep are what will matter ultimately.
A hard lesson for me to learn was the same. Nothing I said to him mattered. He didn't take me seriously. I didn't realize that the same rules held for me and for him: Actions speak louder than words.
SO don't stress yourself too much. I don't think you're doing the 'wrong' thing by saying something or not right now. The boundaries you set and keep are what will matter ultimately.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
If you've made a decision to leave after the holidays if the drinking continues, that is the only thing that matters right now. Everything else can wait, including a wedding. I learned it was frustrating and unproductive to talk to someone under the influence as if they were a rational person.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Practicing the lion's roar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by deax
... you're leaving after the holidays if he's not sober by then-- as long as you really mean it and feel ready to do that. (Don't say it if you don't).
What's nice though is I haven't been stressing too much about it. I feel SO much stronger now than I did even just a few weeks ago, that nothing really bothers me very much... just the idea that I'm being dishonest by keeping quiet. I think I can live with that, though, if that's best. I can now calmly evaluate my situation and see the boundaries he's crossing that I can't live with, and react with control.
been searching for the dream
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Inhaling the mountain air through my mind's eye.
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by AllTooSober
He's been on his best behavior as if to convince me that his drinking isn't a problem.
All Too Sober:
I was in the same situation and I married my A, now AH but I never did do the deadline thing because I was in the fantasy, and dream-land of it all. Mine did the same as yours here on his best behavior. Soooooooooooo, I married and it leveled out to where it is. My point here is that you are not in denile and you speak as though you know.
So last night, he's drunk, we's talking in bed, and he brings up wedding plans. We've booked a reception room at a restaurant on a lake, and it's a very informal arrangement. He said we should call the lady that runs it and start planning a menu, and see if the rental cabins she's got will be available for our family members (the wedding is supposed to be out of town).
All Too Sober:
I remember these moments, but again in fantasy land. He is kind of too because he sees no problem. You do. I think you know.
So he's talking like this, and all I can think is "You know I'm going to leave you if you don't sober up and yet you talk about getting married while you're drunk?" I want to say that there's no way I'll think about marrying him until/unless he's sobered up for good, or at least that we should wait until after the holidays to do anything, but I don't. I just lie there and say nothing except maybe an occasional noise to let him know I'm awake.
All Too Sober:
I do that in the head thing too. I have stopped for now because it is not helping me, but you told him already. It is unreasonalbe to talk reasonably to a person under the influence. Good going.
I guess I didn't want to say anything inflammatory because he was drunk, but now I'm wondering if that was the right thing to do. So often, I just bite my tongue to keep the peace at home, and usually that's fine, but I keep getting the feeling that my silence makes him think that I'm becoming OK with the drinking, when in fact I'm NOT, to the point where I expect to move out this winter. I feel so dishonest and yet can't bring myself to risk another huge argument. I don't fear that he'll get violent or anything... just nasty.
All Too Sober:
He will realize you weren't okay and you meant it if you do not marry him as planned. You are not being dishonest you are being honest to yourself and you are being honest to him.
So, my question is, how would you have handled this? Was I right to keep quiet? Is it acceptable to let him think everything's ok when it isn't? Not that I can control what he thinks, and not that I know for sure that he really DOES think everything's ok... but still.
All Too Sober:
You can't control it. That is how you handled it. Good job!! These are all my opinions but I understand kind of how you feel and where you are at. I believe if a person sets a boundary, they have to be boundaries they can carry out, otherwise don't bother to set them.
Thanks in advance!
All Too Sober:
I was in the same situation and I married my A, now AH but I never did do the deadline thing because I was in the fantasy, and dream-land of it all. Mine did the same as yours here on his best behavior. Soooooooooooo, I married and it leveled out to where it is. My point here is that you are not in denile and you speak as though you know.
So last night, he's drunk, we's talking in bed, and he brings up wedding plans. We've booked a reception room at a restaurant on a lake, and it's a very informal arrangement. He said we should call the lady that runs it and start planning a menu, and see if the rental cabins she's got will be available for our family members (the wedding is supposed to be out of town).
All Too Sober:
I remember these moments, but again in fantasy land. He is kind of too because he sees no problem. You do. I think you know.
So he's talking like this, and all I can think is "You know I'm going to leave you if you don't sober up and yet you talk about getting married while you're drunk?" I want to say that there's no way I'll think about marrying him until/unless he's sobered up for good, or at least that we should wait until after the holidays to do anything, but I don't. I just lie there and say nothing except maybe an occasional noise to let him know I'm awake.
All Too Sober:
I do that in the head thing too. I have stopped for now because it is not helping me, but you told him already. It is unreasonalbe to talk reasonably to a person under the influence. Good going.
I guess I didn't want to say anything inflammatory because he was drunk, but now I'm wondering if that was the right thing to do. So often, I just bite my tongue to keep the peace at home, and usually that's fine, but I keep getting the feeling that my silence makes him think that I'm becoming OK with the drinking, when in fact I'm NOT, to the point where I expect to move out this winter. I feel so dishonest and yet can't bring myself to risk another huge argument. I don't fear that he'll get violent or anything... just nasty.
All Too Sober:
He will realize you weren't okay and you meant it if you do not marry him as planned. You are not being dishonest you are being honest to yourself and you are being honest to him.
So, my question is, how would you have handled this? Was I right to keep quiet? Is it acceptable to let him think everything's ok when it isn't? Not that I can control what he thinks, and not that I know for sure that he really DOES think everything's ok... but still.
All Too Sober:
You can't control it. That is how you handled it. Good job!! These are all my opinions but I understand kind of how you feel and where you are at. I believe if a person sets a boundary, they have to be boundaries they can carry out, otherwise don't bother to set them.
Thanks in advance!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
But you did tell him that, right? That he had until after the holidays to get it together or there would be a consequence? That's the impression I was under. If not and he actually knows nothing of what you're planning to do, then in that case I wouldn't really see the harm in telling him when he's sober that the wedding planning is on hold for the time being, until other things get figured out...
Sorry for my confusion!
Sorry for my confusion!
Practicing the lion's roar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
He set his own deadline after I told him that I'd talked to a real estate agent. So, if he doesn't know what I've got in mind then his denial runs deeper than I thought. The temptation is to keep reminding him that serious consequences are looming, even though our life is less dramatic these days.
been searching for the dream
Join Date: Feb 2006
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[QUOTE=AllTooSober]Right. I haven't said that, but I do mean it. Mostly I don't want to have the conversation or invite him to spew even more sincere-but-meaningless promises, or worse.
Ok I was posting and missed this part. Ok so you did not verbalize it yet. Ok so I am with deax. No harm done. When you are ready to verbalize it you will, if not you won't. Ok so I was confused with that part
Ok I was posting and missed this part. Ok so you did not verbalize it yet. Ok so I am with deax. No harm done. When you are ready to verbalize it you will, if not you won't. Ok so I was confused with that part
been searching for the dream
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Inhaling the mountain air through my mind's eye.
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by AllTooSober
He set his own deadline after I told him that I'd talked to a real estate agent. So, if he doesn't know what I've got in mind then his denial runs deeper than I thought. The temptation is to keep reminding him that serious consequences are looming, even though our life is less dramatic these days.
LOL I did it again. Right! now i remember your other posting. Right he set it. Ok well same channel different station. You can follow through or not on HIS boundary. Have a good day. I am having a confused one.
LOL
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
trying to talk to, or reason with, an alcoholic when they are drinking or drunk, is like trying to raise the water level of the ocean by p!ssin in it.
you are talking to the alcohol, not the person.
blessings
jeri
you are talking to the alcohol, not the person.
blessings
jeri
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by AllTooSober
Sometimes I wonder if he's baiting me, testing me, to judge where my head is by my reaction to him, instead of just asking me flat-out what's going on with me.
Good luck.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
I'd have to risk the tantrum. H eis not in a place to keep the vows he will take. As a family member who was invited to an out of town wedding, i will tell you that I resented the hell out of rearranging my schedule and spending the money on travel, a motel, airfair and a gift on a couple who allowed me to do that knowing they didn't feel right about marrying but went ahead anyway.They divorced 8 months later and I'm still paying off the $5,000 debt. At this point people are planning and fear of having a real conversation about the rest of your lives is of little concern to them. Your fear of a fight will cost friends a family real money. None of those people would support the marraige if they knew the truth. Putting it off is simply putting it off. It will become harder. Is this man the man you will entrust your life to? no.
Practicing the lion's roar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
Mallowcup, you're way ahead of me. :-) The wedding is supposed to be in July. Invitations haven't been sent yet, so really nobody should be making any plans that involve money except for me and him, and I refuse to do that for the time being.
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Honestly works best for me.... does not matter much if he gets angry and wants to fight, when I have made my decision I will express it and if he wants to fight about it I will walk away.
When you have done it once when they are sober, there is no reason to keep telling them over and over. They know.
I dont do head games.... that will drive me insane quicker then anything. Mr. R use to say things that in my gut I "knew" were not true... that drove me insane to the point that I was ready to make changes when I returned from vacation... I did not have too cuz he ended it and then a month later sent me an e-mail confirming everything my gut had been telling me. Listen to your gut and dont worry about all the "crud" around you ...
When you have done it once when they are sober, there is no reason to keep telling them over and over. They know.
I dont do head games.... that will drive me insane quicker then anything. Mr. R use to say things that in my gut I "knew" were not true... that drove me insane to the point that I was ready to make changes when I returned from vacation... I did not have too cuz he ended it and then a month later sent me an e-mail confirming everything my gut had been telling me. Listen to your gut and dont worry about all the "crud" around you ...
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
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I have a feeling he's quacking at you
When they're drunk, they oftentimes get yakking and quacking about all sorts of grandiose plans, your rosey future together, whatever. He knows, on some level, that he ain't cutting it, drinking-wise and he's afraid you WILL leave him. He's lying to himself about his drinking. Don't take him seriously. It's a combination of denial, fear, and the booze talking.
You sound like you're going to stick to your guns about leaving after the holidays. That will probably be the capper anyway. I have NEVER gotten through the holidays without AH going on a mega-binge.
You sound like you're going to stick to your guns about leaving after the holidays. That will probably be the capper anyway. I have NEVER gotten through the holidays without AH going on a mega-binge.
been searching for the dream
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Inhaling the mountain air through my mind's eye.
Posts: 240
To true prodigal. I agree here. the holiday season is a drinking season. Around here it is the Merry Month of March before St. Pat's and AH birthday. Hey, it only changes if they want it to. I like this prodigal quote"It's a combination of denial,fear, and booze talking." Amen. All Too Sober I so feel for your situation. I can't tell you how your marriage would be but I know my hopes and dreams have been sidetracked. You are doing some good thinking.
Practicing the lion's roar
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by prodigal
When they're drunk, they oftentimes get yakking and quacking about all sorts of grandiose plans, your rosey future together, whatever. He knows, on some level, that he ain't cutting it, drinking-wise and he's afraid you WILL leave him. He's lying to himself about his drinking. Don't take him seriously. It's a combination of denial, fear, and the booze talking.
Originally Posted by prodigal
You sound like you're going to stick to your guns about leaving after the holidays.
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