Just beginning to open the can of worms
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9
Just beginning to open the can of worms
Hi Everyone - I've been lurking the past couple days reading other people's posts and it's been so helpful. I thought I would delve in and tell my situation and hopefully you guys can give me some insight. I feel like a rotten person.
Ok, I've known my neighbor for about 3 months. We have become really good friends and he's let me know he REALLY REALLY "likes" me and "cares" about me. He would ABSOLUTELY love to date me. he's very lonely and hates being alone too which he has said (??!!). The day I met him a red flag went up--hmm...something's wrong here. But he's also hilariously funny, very witty, cultured, English, etc. I'm being suckered in. At first when we'd go out to eat, he'd order non-alcoholic beers. he was divorced a year ago and said he was "advised" not to drink for the sake of his daughter but he didn't elaborate (he has limited visitation--a few hours each week--no overnights--she's a toddler). he also told me that towards the end of his last marriage, he "used to" drink so much that he almost died and spent 2 weeks in the hospital, but he's got a handle on it now.
Over the course of the past few months, he's started drinking beer and then red wine (that I know of). I love going out for a beer or a glass of wine every now and then (notice how I said "A GLASS"). but I noticed that he has like 10 glasses to my one or 2, and then when we go back to his place, he has another bottle of wine on his own. he says he has a "very high tolerance". hmm. Also it bothered me the guys at the pub know him by name. Anyway, now, the past few weeks--he pretty much seems to be at the pub every evening for hours--he calls it "the office". He works sporadically and is an artist--so basically no steady job. Seems to just have a lot of money w/o out working (I haven't pushed this issue--figure it's none of my business). He thinks nothing of taking me out for an expensive dinner and spending $100 on a bottle of wine. At first I was really impressed with all of it.
Now I'm reallizing--I'm watching him--I'm counting how much he drinks when we go out and if I'm at his apartment, every time he goes into the kitchen I have one eye on him to see if he's opening another bottle of wine. and if he is, my heart sinks a little. So up until this past weekend I've said NO to "dating" him because I had all these reservations but hadn't really thought them through to what they meant. finally this past Sunday we went to a movie early in the day--1:00. he had just gotten up and when we sat down in the theater, he wreaked of alcohol.....HELLO...ALARM BELLS RINGING SO LOUD...
So I didnt' confront him right then. I went through the day and still was sort of in shock what to say/do. I emailed him that I think he has a drinking problem STILL and he's not being honest with me. I smelled the booze on him in the theater, etc. he emailed back that he had had a "non alcoholic beer" before we met up. I dont' believe him. I said I will be his friend but I will never drink with him again. He wrote back some drivel about how I'm placing all my problems and distrust of men on him (he never actually mentioned the drinking at all in his email.) Then late at night, I'm guessing when he's at the pub, he starts texting me stuff on my cell---he misses me, etc.
SO TODAY...this is where probably my stupidity/naivete comes in...I emailed him that I got his text messages but I meant what i said--i can't date a heavy drinker and I won't drink with him. Can he hang out with me and not drink? It took him a long time to respond but he said "yes" and that was it. And I haven't heard anything else from him.
Now that I write this..I'm thinking "why am I bothering with all this???" BECAUSE on some level i DO CARE about him and I want him to be okay. I know I know I know I KNOW......
Can somebody please knock some sense into me?
thanks!
Ok, I've known my neighbor for about 3 months. We have become really good friends and he's let me know he REALLY REALLY "likes" me and "cares" about me. He would ABSOLUTELY love to date me. he's very lonely and hates being alone too which he has said (??!!). The day I met him a red flag went up--hmm...something's wrong here. But he's also hilariously funny, very witty, cultured, English, etc. I'm being suckered in. At first when we'd go out to eat, he'd order non-alcoholic beers. he was divorced a year ago and said he was "advised" not to drink for the sake of his daughter but he didn't elaborate (he has limited visitation--a few hours each week--no overnights--she's a toddler). he also told me that towards the end of his last marriage, he "used to" drink so much that he almost died and spent 2 weeks in the hospital, but he's got a handle on it now.
Over the course of the past few months, he's started drinking beer and then red wine (that I know of). I love going out for a beer or a glass of wine every now and then (notice how I said "A GLASS"). but I noticed that he has like 10 glasses to my one or 2, and then when we go back to his place, he has another bottle of wine on his own. he says he has a "very high tolerance". hmm. Also it bothered me the guys at the pub know him by name. Anyway, now, the past few weeks--he pretty much seems to be at the pub every evening for hours--he calls it "the office". He works sporadically and is an artist--so basically no steady job. Seems to just have a lot of money w/o out working (I haven't pushed this issue--figure it's none of my business). He thinks nothing of taking me out for an expensive dinner and spending $100 on a bottle of wine. At first I was really impressed with all of it.
Now I'm reallizing--I'm watching him--I'm counting how much he drinks when we go out and if I'm at his apartment, every time he goes into the kitchen I have one eye on him to see if he's opening another bottle of wine. and if he is, my heart sinks a little. So up until this past weekend I've said NO to "dating" him because I had all these reservations but hadn't really thought them through to what they meant. finally this past Sunday we went to a movie early in the day--1:00. he had just gotten up and when we sat down in the theater, he wreaked of alcohol.....HELLO...ALARM BELLS RINGING SO LOUD...
So I didnt' confront him right then. I went through the day and still was sort of in shock what to say/do. I emailed him that I think he has a drinking problem STILL and he's not being honest with me. I smelled the booze on him in the theater, etc. he emailed back that he had had a "non alcoholic beer" before we met up. I dont' believe him. I said I will be his friend but I will never drink with him again. He wrote back some drivel about how I'm placing all my problems and distrust of men on him (he never actually mentioned the drinking at all in his email.) Then late at night, I'm guessing when he's at the pub, he starts texting me stuff on my cell---he misses me, etc.
SO TODAY...this is where probably my stupidity/naivete comes in...I emailed him that I got his text messages but I meant what i said--i can't date a heavy drinker and I won't drink with him. Can he hang out with me and not drink? It took him a long time to respond but he said "yes" and that was it. And I haven't heard anything else from him.
Now that I write this..I'm thinking "why am I bothering with all this???" BECAUSE on some level i DO CARE about him and I want him to be okay. I know I know I know I KNOW......
Can somebody please knock some sense into me?
thanks!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
At this point in my life, I dont' think I'd even bring it up. I'd just step back. It's the same man in a different earth suit. For a while it seemed that no matter how causious I thought I was being, they were all the same man. Here's the real point, it isn't his comfort level with his drinking that matters. It isn't his buisness what your reasons are. I would just internalize what you see and listen to your gut. Why have all those conversations?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
Originally Posted by lilaq
He wrote back some drivel about how I'm placing all my problems and distrust of men on him
I hope you sense my sarcasm. Can you tell I've heard stuff like this before?
Welcome aboard, and make sure you take the time to read everything you can about the subject so you can make an informed decision.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
lilaq, you see the red flags. What do you want me to say to knock some sense into you? If you see the red flags - you have a choice - go towards them or stear clear. Get yourself out of the situation, or stay in.
You, at this point, have invested 3 months in this friendship/relationship.
Alcoholism is progressive.
You feel he's lied to you already, he drinks more than you feel comfortable with, he doesn't have a steady job and you're feeling concerned with these feelings you are having.
Hmm.......do you want to invest 3 more months like this? Or how about 3 more years? Do you want to watch someone progress in their drinking? Do you want to continue having these concerns/feelings you have right now?
The choice is yours. It's that simple.
You, at this point, have invested 3 months in this friendship/relationship.
Alcoholism is progressive.
You feel he's lied to you already, he drinks more than you feel comfortable with, he doesn't have a steady job and you're feeling concerned with these feelings you are having.
Hmm.......do you want to invest 3 more months like this? Or how about 3 more years? Do you want to watch someone progress in their drinking? Do you want to continue having these concerns/feelings you have right now?
The choice is yours. It's that simple.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9
Yes, I've been going over it and over it a million times in my head--am I at fault here? Am I being too critical of him? Am I being a mean person? But then I can't accept the booze on him first thing in the day on a Sunday and the fact he goes to the pub every day lately. And, I forgot to say, on Sunday he was very snippy and argumentative, which I hadn't seen that side of him before. 
And he almost dozed off in the movie theater before the movie started.
Anyway, I really appreciate your input you guys---Yes, Texas, that's how I feel--like it's all my fault for some reason. And Mallo--good way to state it that I hadn't even thought of---who cares how he feels, if it makes me feel very uncomfortable, then that's all that matters. ARgh. Must stick to my guns here. He's hiding from me now--no calls or emails--I guess like a bad little boy. But I have a feeling in the next few days he's going to lay it on me thick about how much he misses me and cares about me, etc.
Then I wonder--what is it about me that makes me even want to talk to him at all at this point?? We don't have a huge history--we haven't been physically intimate. Emotionally/mentally intimate though--we have. He's told me stuff from his childhood that's really bad. I guess to lay the groundwork to excuse his behavior? Can see "sucker" on my forehead knowing that I'll buy into this stuff?
*banging head on wall*
And he almost dozed off in the movie theater before the movie started.Anyway, I really appreciate your input you guys---Yes, Texas, that's how I feel--like it's all my fault for some reason. And Mallo--good way to state it that I hadn't even thought of---who cares how he feels, if it makes me feel very uncomfortable, then that's all that matters. ARgh. Must stick to my guns here. He's hiding from me now--no calls or emails--I guess like a bad little boy. But I have a feeling in the next few days he's going to lay it on me thick about how much he misses me and cares about me, etc.
Then I wonder--what is it about me that makes me even want to talk to him at all at this point?? We don't have a huge history--we haven't been physically intimate. Emotionally/mentally intimate though--we have. He's told me stuff from his childhood that's really bad.
I guess to lay the groundwork to excuse his behavior? Can see "sucker" on my forehead knowing that I'll buy into this stuff?*banging head on wall*
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Lilaq
I'm being suckered in.
Is this your first experience with an addict? Read the stickys at the top of the forum and keep posting. Lots of great wisdom here from those who have been in your shoes.
Glad you're here!
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
I discovered (finally) that I am a fixer. I would get all upset and whatnot about AH and I'd do whatever it took to fix the situation. Each and every time there arose an issue, a problem, etc.
I have come to finally be able to seperate what belongs to my AH and what belongs to myself. His issues are his business - mine are mine.
I have also come to a place where I realize that I have issues with how much other people drink. It's not for me to judge them or tell them how to live their life though. So I simply choose to not involve myself with those that drink to the point of making me feel uncomfortable with it.
Oh, one more thing.......his past. It was hard and whatnot. It may have been - but it's up to him in how he chooses to live his life NOW and how he chooses to handle the feelings, emotions, etc. of that past. Many people have had painful upbringings but chose not to drown those memories and pain. They live, they learn, they work through them, and release them. And they succeed.
Don't let his awful past suck you in. An addict or alcoholic want you to feel sorry for them - it's how they suck you in. They will come up with any excuse to use and any excuse to justify it. That's what alcoholics do.
Again - you have a choice. It's up to you. Do you want this chaos in your life? Because you are now only 3 months in. Alcoholism is progressive. Do you want to continue? The choice is yours.
I have come to finally be able to seperate what belongs to my AH and what belongs to myself. His issues are his business - mine are mine.
I have also come to a place where I realize that I have issues with how much other people drink. It's not for me to judge them or tell them how to live their life though. So I simply choose to not involve myself with those that drink to the point of making me feel uncomfortable with it.
Oh, one more thing.......his past. It was hard and whatnot. It may have been - but it's up to him in how he chooses to live his life NOW and how he chooses to handle the feelings, emotions, etc. of that past. Many people have had painful upbringings but chose not to drown those memories and pain. They live, they learn, they work through them, and release them. And they succeed.
Don't let his awful past suck you in. An addict or alcoholic want you to feel sorry for them - it's how they suck you in. They will come up with any excuse to use and any excuse to justify it. That's what alcoholics do.
Again - you have a choice. It's up to you. Do you want this chaos in your life? Because you are now only 3 months in. Alcoholism is progressive. Do you want to continue? The choice is yours.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
Most of us have been in love relationships/marriages with alcoholics. There is more than one of them out there. How hard have you tried? How much have you put up with? Well, if his relationship ended, I'm sure his wife didn't skip out at the first sign of trouble.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9
Yes, Strong this is my first direct experience with an alcoholic. Both my grandparents were ones but I didn't live with them. But this guy does remind me of one of my grandfathers a lot--that was another red flag. the sleepy droopy-lidded look when I know he's had too much too drink. Anyway, thank you guys for your help. As you guys have guessed I don't have any experience with this and wasn't sure if I was handling it right. So is the best course of action to cut off ties completely or try to be friends? w/o no drinking of course. Though I guess at this point that may be impossible because he's going to resent me watching his every move and I'll be annoyed/disappointed if he does drink. Definitely at a deadlock I guess. The big problem is he lives in my apt building so I will run into him all the time. MOving isn't an option--I just moved in a few months ago and signed a year lease (Plus I don't really want to move out). And I feel he is very emotionally tied to me--seems to think his whole life will be fixed if he has me (that was yet another red flag when he said all that last weekend--before I had smelled the booze oh him). oh well. *sigh*....... I guess I have a fantasy that somehow he'll see the error of his ways and say "Yes I will go actively seek treatment right now!" and become the great guy I know he is under all the alcohol. but that is a fantasy, isn't it? If he almost died from drinking a couple years ago and his marriage split up, why would meeting me change anything?
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
If he almost died from drinking a couple years ago and his marriage split up, why would meeting me change anything?
Having said that - I'd have to say that "No" - meeting you will not change anything. It must be his desire to change - and it sounds to me like he has no intention of doing so as he's still in denial of his addiction.
You keep listing things that are red flags lilaq. So in answer to the other question you asked:
So is the best course of action to cut off ties completely or try to be friends?
As for living in the same building.......well, you know, I work in a place with a lot of coworkers. I may see some of them on a daily basis and say "hello" but I am not involved any more than that. I'ts possible to live in the same building with someone and have limited contact. I think that you just really don't want to give up this friendship/relationship that you have with this man.
Just remember - you do have choices. But they must be your choices.
For a long time, I didn't realize that I really had choices. I just want you to know that you do.
What is it that you want out of your life? Stp and think about that for a moment. Do you want to be with people that "need" you? Do you wish to have addicts/alcoholics in your life? Do you wish to have a friend that is drinking most of the time, doesn't have a job, etc? What kind of friends do you want? And forgetting the friends for a moment - what do you want out of your life?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
hi lilaq
your instincts (higher power, common sense, gut feeling.....whatever you choose to call it) are already telling you what you need to know.
darlin, run now....before you have any more invested. why take on all the hurt that is coming at ya like a rock rolling down a mountain????
jmho
blessings
jeri
your instincts (higher power, common sense, gut feeling.....whatever you choose to call it) are already telling you what you need to know.
darlin, run now....before you have any more invested. why take on all the hurt that is coming at ya like a rock rolling down a mountain????
jmho
blessings
jeri
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
Lilaq, I really struggled with not wanting to hurt his feelings. I worked so very hard to not break his heart. And I just went further and further down. It's a hard mindset to aquire, changing who you look after. It's worth working towards though. I'm still in the beginning of it, but therapy has been really helping me address skewed thought patterns.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 221
Lilaq, I am sorry to say this, but you staying "friends" with this man is not going to save him. None of us are that powerful. What you can expect to happen is become more and more miserable as time goes by. Can you, in all honesty, stay friends with this person without developing feelings for him? Most likely not. Generally, alcoholic men are a charming, funny, and sweet lot. Take your chances, if you must, but remember, it's only been three months and you are already counting his drinks and cringing at the site of a wine bottle--imagine how you will feel three or thirty years down the line.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9
You guys are so right. Thanks, I just needed to "hear" it from people who know MUCH more about this stuff. He's playing games with me now--he's avoided me for 3 days now (every since I called him to the carpet over email about his drinking problem). Then last night again after 11:00 (third night in a row he's done this), texts my cell phone "Do you want to talk?" I just delete them and don't respond--who wants to talk after 11--some of us DO WORK IN THE MORNING. This is probably the same games he played with his ex-wife. It's not cute nor funny and I'm not playing. And what is there to talk about now? I don't want to hear a bunch of denials to no avail or worse him nitpicking that I have trouble "trusting men". I now feel like I've already wasted too much energy and emotion on this situation. I'm very sorry for him and it's very sad (esp. for his darling 2 year old daughter), BUT I'm not in love with him nor married to him, so he's got to be out of his mind to think I'm still going to hang around at this point. Boy this whole thing has been sure an eye-opener--learning about me as well. And I've read the stickies now too in this forum. I esp. love the sticky about the 100 Red Flags--it's genius. This guy has about 35 of the 100. HELLO??!!!.... I've got my Nikes on and I'm starting to run!
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