AllTooSober

Last Friday I was feeling immeasurably sad about my A fiance, who's still in total denial about his addiction and swears that "the end is near, I feel it" even though he still puts away a liter of 151 in about 36 hours. After reading the "what did you do for YOU today" thread, I decided to find an al-anon meeting for that night. I found one, wrote down the info, then went home to think about it.

When I got home, AF was on the porch, having a cocktail (of course). I told him I was thinking of going to the meeting, and he asked me a bit about it. The one cocktail turned into three or four (I'm trying not to keep track but it's tough going) and I decided I was going. He asked to come with, and I said he could. He said he couldn't believe I was taking a drunk to an al-anon meeting, and I just shrugged.

On our way, he asked if we could leave if he said he'd had enough, and I told him "No." He then told me to take him home, so we turned around. He said he was surprised that I'd force him to stay if he felt uncomfortable, and I told him that this was for me and that if I didn't get help we weren't going to make it. He then said (or threatened, whatever) that he might go to the meeting on his own. I told him I didn't think he should be driving, and he agreed with that, and I said "I guess that's up to you, then" and dropped him off at home.

I guess I have a little less to say about the meeting itself. It was a small group, and each person had various reasons for being there. They listened with compassion and without judgment or advice, and it felt SO GOOD just to unload and unleash all the sadness and fears without having to worry about anybody feeling guilty.

One thing, though... the meeting reinforced my new biggest fear in life which is that he sobers up, I start to trust in his recovery, we get married, have kids, then pow, he starts up again and the heartbreak continues, this time with prisoners (kids) in tow. Some of the people in the group had A's that did just that... stay sober, then relapse, and suddenly everything is worse than before. One person's A even died from it. I read a post here, though, that said you can't project your future and that you just have to live in the moment, but it's HARD to do that when you're expected to marry a guy and build a life together.

I'm going to keep going to the meetings, at least through the 6 that everybody says you should go to before deciding to stop or continue. The best news seems to bet that the AF is suddenly interested in what it's all about and what they do, etc, so who knows maybe he'll go to a meeting of his own.

So, thank you SR and all you wonderful participants who feel so much like friends already. I probably wouldn't have gone to the meeting if it weren't for you!

deax

I'm not sure if I'm totally off base in saying this and I hate to sound like I'm being harsh when I am still muddling through things myself, but if I were you I would keep these meetings only for you. I don't see the point in bringing the alcoholic there with you, unless there's a part of you that hopes hearing these stories from friends and family will inspire him to stop. If so, that's a misplaced motivation on your part. (Or was he going because he grew up in an alcoholic family, or for some other legit reason?) IMO, these meetings are for you, not him. That's what AA is for-- and who knows, maybe your getting better via here and Al Anon will help him decide to go to his own meetings, as you said. That's one of the few things we can do and hope will happen for our As. But just check to see what was driving his inclusion in the Al Anon thing the other day for both of you. Notice how he decided not to come when he couldn't dictate the terms; still all about him.

Anyway I am glad you got to check it out. The first meeting is the hardest, I cried all the way through mine. And then the 2nd and the 3rd too. Definitely go to the 6, like you said hearing others' stories gives you a lot to think about and sort through for the rest of the week. I hope you get great things out of it, and I sincerely hope your self-improvement efforts do rub off on him, too. It's what I pray for every day in my own situation, so I understand.

mazey

Glad the meeting was relieving to you, they usually are. Now, about the live for today....this is unsettling to me. You hear us all speak of the roller coaster living w/ A's. I don't think you can make a lifelong decision on today...either way your A is behaving today. There are those who learn to live with active A's, there are those who down the road just can't. I think you need to be aware that it can go either way and then sort out if you can do either way. There are also A's who stop for life....but, someone with more expertise should quote you the statistics. My heart feels for you as you try to make this important decision. Stay with the alanon meetings, and I agree, it should be YOUR time. He needs the other room....

AllTooSober

Oh I totally agree that the other room is where he belongs, and that he shouldn't be in there. I'm fairly certain that I only agreed because I knew he wouldn't do it. He likes to bluff and I usually call him. I think if he'd actually showed up with me he wouldn't have gone in. If he tries to come with next time I'll just tell him no. Maybe he wanted to come with to make sure I wasn't lying about where I'd be. Not that he's ever accused me of lying or sneaking around. And, even if he does that the next time, that's HIS problem, not mine.

AllTooSober

I too have problems with "live for today," mazey, for the exact reasons you mention. I do have to make some big decisions soon, maybe just not today.

denny57

I look at "live for today" like this. Today is all I have. I can look at the past, but it's done. If I accept that today may be all I have, day after day (following?) then all I can do is make today the best it can be. In other words, accept that tomorrow will be as today - good or bad, depending on my choices. That is why I have to choose what is right for me TODAY.

Hope that isn't too confusing.

deax

Well unless I completely misunderstand the just for today philosophy, I think the message is that all you have to manage right now is this 24-hour period amidst the chaos, and maybe for your own serentiy (or search for it) that means making NO major decisions for today, or on anyone's timetable but your own, until clarity comes. Marriage and kids are a HUGE decision, and so is leaving someone you love. Under the just for today philosophy, nothing has to be done immediately, you don't need to worry about months or years down the road because for today, you're handling whatever is on your plate at the moment. And with an alcoholic, that can change daily. But your feelings and your vision of your life, whatever you decide, might be clearer 'tomorrow.' So maybe just arranging to give yourself time to think is all you need to do right now.

ATS, did you get a Beginner's Packet and anything to read? I'd suggest getting the One Day at a Time in Al Anon book. It's a little bit outdated maybe in the way certain ideas are expressed because it's the oldest book, but I think it's the best one to start off with. Really makes me think about myself, some pages were shocking and even offensive to me in the beginning, and made me dig deep to figure out my feelings which was a revelation sometimes. Short and sweet daily passages too.

AllTooSober

Thanks deax, I'll look into that one. I did get a packet but haven't looked through it just yet. For whatever reason the AF seems uncomfortable when I read anything, let alone al-anon lit.

Zoey

AlltoSober
I think you did the right thing telling him he could go. If he wanted out he could wait in the car. We all qualify(sp?) as we all have friends that are A's.
You knew he wouldn't go.
I feel sure he won't ask to go along again, but if he does I'd play it the same.

We both in AA and Al-Anon are learning to live life on life's terms.
Maybe tell him it is to learn about living life a bit more confident etc. Same things the A' learn in AA.
Just my slant on it. take what you can use and leave the rest, and keep us posted.

lillamy

I think I can relate. I have kids, and it does make things harder. I think.

But think about it like this: You can't know anything about the future. You could leave this guy, marry someone else, have kids -- and have that person become an alcoholic. Or a drug addict. Or a serial killer. Or die in a car accident. Or develop cancer.

You can't control the future. You can't control other people. You're only in charge of you. And even about ourselves, we're not in control of it all.

So "just for today" to me means that -- you can only make choices today based on what you know today.

AllTooSober

That's all true, certainly; I can't help but think that the odds for an unhappy ending are higher if I stick with him than if I don't. I don't like thinking that way, though, which is why I'm still with him--to see if he honestly decides for himself to get sober. Not just stop drinking, but to really sober up.

Besides, if I did get smacked by a bus some day, my last thoughts probably won't be "boy I'm glad I put off my own happiness to keep giving him chance after failed chance, leading to heartbreak after heartbreak."

HolyQow

That crossed my mind. I get accused of all kinds of things, absolutely impossible things sometimes. Two of the latest, went to return movies at video store, gone 15 mins at most, he calls on cell phone because I have been gone sooooooo long. Another time, I ask AH's brother who the new guy working at restaurant was. He tells me Eric. Eric hears his name, turns around and starts talking to us, mostly about the guy that no longer works there, and he is the replacement for him, yada yada, laugh laugh. So AH is on his way back from bathroom (yes he has to go every half hour when drinking!), sees us talking, Eric walks away before AH gets there. I don't think anything about it, then when the alcohol soaks in completely, when we get home, AH starts with the 50 questions about Eric......"was he flirting with you?" "is that your new boyfriend?" WHAT? I've got too many stories like that. I am slowly learning who is trying to control who here. Glad to see you are not falling for it already. Glad you got to go to a meeting too. I can't find one close enough to home yet, but still looking.

AllTooSober

Earlier that evening, after I announced my intention to go but before I went, he'd commented that I smelled "like a man's cologne" around my neck somewhere. He didn't outright accuse me of anything... he'd go about it in a passive way like this. I just brushed him off but thought about this comment when he asked if he could go.

Cynay

Tell me.... if this is all you have... how he is today... the life you have with him today and he did not change at all..... Would you marry him?

For me it helps me not to project my hopes for what could be, should be, if only, maybe into the future... If its not good enough for today and the action is repetative.... Make the decisions based off today.

OHH forgot to mention, Many Alcoholics that I know think the world revolves around them. Many even in recovery will not step foot into an Al-anon meeting cuz they think its a bunch of people bashing the Alcoholic.... I would guess he might have been thinking that would keep you from bashing him and getting support for your strife...

AllTooSober

I couldn't marry him today... that much I know. He knows it too, or at least he's been told and has acknowledged it.

Cynay

I guessed as much.

So the next question would be how long to plan to wait for him to change?

Have you thought of a time limit ... say 6 months, 1 year.... 10?

AllTooSober

He's asked me to give him until the holidays were over to sober up. He claims it's going to happen but I have enormous doubts about his succeses. He'd said once that if he couldn't sober himself up by then, he'd check into rehab, but even then I doubt it would work on him. He's waaaay too anti-do-what-they-tell-me, I think.

Cynay

Sweetie....

That was not my question. Again how long are YOU willing to wait.

When I was dating my ex and his attitude started to change about our relationship my sponsor asked me how long I was willing to wait before I took action. Then I decided I would talk with him in August about the situation (you already have talked to him) and wait 6 months to see if there was a change. If not I would let the relationship go. Done. No negoation. No last chance. No nothing. If maybe in the future with him getting help and showing a history of change we might be able to try again but without his doing what he needed to seperate from me and giving me the time away from the relationship there was NO nothing.

What are YOU willing to do.

HolyQow

That's how it starts. Very subtle. As if he isn't really accusing you of anything. Then you start questioning yourself. "Maybe I was too nice to that guy" "Maybe the guy in the elevator had cologne on" "Maybe I was at the store longer than I thought" So he puts the doubt there, then goes and does whatever the heck he wants to do, and if you should even try to ask him where he has been, he will bring up every single one of these old accusations. He does not want any blame placed on him, it will all shift to you. A few comments here, a few comments there......it will all add up to ruining your self-esteem, until he can completely manipulate you and control everything about you.

About waiting until the holidays to get sober....I think the term is quack quack quack.

AllTooSober

Sorry if I misunderstood you--I think I get what you're saying now. I don't really want to wait until the holidays are over to see how he does, but I told him he could have that time and I really like to keep my word, even to those who don't/can't keep theirs. So, if by the end of the holidays he's not sober and doesn't go into rehab (like he said he would), that's it, over, finito.