LongStrangeTrip

Well, he's been 52 days sober. He calls me, e-mails me and constantly instists that he will do whatever it takes to win back our family.

I still do not want to even try again.
However, my heart keeps breaking piece by piece because he is now working towards becoming the man I always wanted. WHY do they always have to do the most awful, unforgivable things before they wake up and get sober?

However, I still cannot accept the whole black out thing and all of the other psychological crap that was going on when he did what he did to my 17 yr daughter. I just can't fathom him saying those things to her and touching her body against her will. Do I believe he doesn't remember the details? YES. Do I believe he acted on something during a black out that he thought about at other times? YES. <-----THAT IS THE SICK PART! The counselor keeps telling me that even when he was sober, his brain was so screwed up from all of the alcohol that even his so called "sober" judgement was affected. IS THIS TRUE?

HOW does someone black out like that? I don't get it? How do they get to this point in the alcoholism, where they become these monsters and like completely different people, even when they haven't had a drink that day?

IF..and that is a big IF...my daughter and I ever come to accept the fact that this all really did happen as the result of a black out and his inability to control his actions...HOW in the world can he expect us to ever trust him again let alone forgive him?

I asked am I falling for this crap because I am actually starting to feel sorry for him. I can't even help myself for God's sakes! I feel sorry for him because I believe he really is finding clarity and the reality of being sober now for almost 2 months has allowed him to truly see everything he HAD and what he can no longer HAVE. However, feeling sorry for someone and loving them is 2 totally different things.
I MISS the man who was the good part of him, the loving part...I HATE what he did. I HATE that my kids are not themselves and are both in counseling because of this. I HATE that he couldn't have gotten himself together while we were together and that he had to go all the way to the bottom of the well to finally find the water.

GOD..I just wish our lives were closer to normal. No such thing as normal I KNOW but there is something close to it...I KNOW there is and this is NOT IT!


Sorry for venting...Please respond. I need answers. We have counseling tomorrow night and I need help with this.

Live

You said above you do not want to try again.
No reason why you should.

mazey

My first thought is 'why do we seem to have such big hearts, and why don't we use our heads more?' Is it wrong for me to say that? I am putting myself right there too! for so many years.....There is so much to sort out, you'll do just fine and come out with the best choice. You've come thru such a difficult time, and been strong....stay focused and strong. Give it time, no hurry....He has just begun. You have come a long way, don't lose your footing.

Pick-a-name

hugs and prayers going out to you and your family....one day at a time.

LongStrangeTrip

Here is just one example of what I have every day...I'm telling you, it makes me so sick!!! Who is this person???? I don't even think I've ever met him!!!

StandingStrong

You are sickened by what he did, you are angry, and you cannot understand how this man could do such a thing to your child.
You said that you don't want to try again to even work your marriage out.

So why are you taking the calls and emails and having so much contact?

I believe that it's the words and sincerity you hear that is making you feel sorry for him. You are seeing him as this broken, pathetic, and sad man and you feel for him. Is this the codependancy kicking in wanting to make him feel better, wanting to rescue him from his pain, etc?

It's an amazing and yet confusing thing, isn't it, knowing that we can actually accept what we ourselves term as the unacceptable.

((((LongStrangeTrip))))

Janitw

Long - my husband never did try to come back to us at least he is wanting to. You have alot of anger built up and rightfully so. Don't worry about him or what consequences he is paying. You do what you need to do for your own sanity and serenity and of course for the kids to. Time will heal the anger part but until enough time has gone by, you will continue to feel it. I feel bad you hun...take the time you need is about all I can say for now. Take care of you and yours. (((((((LONG))))))

Janit

Pick-a-name

Stay your course and do whatever it is YOU need to do for YOU and the kids. Actions;not words would be all I can say about him. Time will tell if he is serious....if he is, he will prove it to you....let him. JMHO

Sorry you are going thru all this. I think the more you can keep your focus on yourself and your kids;the better. Doesn't mean you can no go back to him in the future,if that is your choice...just means You decide if and when you want to consider it....no matter how much pressure you feel. He made the mess....he still has a lot of healing to do,etc.,etc.

Sending you a big hug.

LongStrangeTrip

To answer your question...unfortunately, we are still married (for now) and have a house and most of all a son together.
I have to talk to him almost daily because our son is having a horrific time with this. He sees the school counselor because he is depressed and has a hard time focusing on his school work and he sees a family counselor as well once a week.
The only good relationship he (AH) had was with our son. They spent whatever sober time he had together (sports and what not).
Our house is in the process of having an addition put on and since both of our names are on it, I have to consult with him on the progress.

90% of our contact is related to bills, the house and our son. We go to counselling once a week in order to learn to communicate on a more civil level. Usually, I reply to these undying devotion e-mails with blasts of hateful words and comments or I simply ignore them. I read them because I want to know where his head is at on any given day before he picks our son up for visits.
The example above is the norm. The other 10% is in the counselor's office, where I spend most of the session telling him how angry I am how if I never had to see him again or speak to him again it is too soon....which is counter productive since I am supposed to be learning how to be civil for our son's sake.

I think I have concluded that I feel sorry for him from a safe distance because I know that if I show the slightest amount of it, he will pounce on my pity and misconstrue it for other feelings.

I believe I am falling for the crap above (blackouts, emotional problems and whatever else he is supposed to have ) and my pain stems from the anger that now, when it's over and too late, he realizes what he had. I have thought about maybe if all of this is true and he does have all of these problems besides the alcoholism, that maybe he really will change. However, then I realize the levity of what he did and how it has torn our family part and then I snap out of my dream world and face facts.
It is OVER. I know I will never trust him again.

Thank you for your insights as well.

laurie6781

Long I have one problem with his story..................he says it was a blackout and you say he was not drinking at the time.

I would have blackouts, WHEN I WAS DRINKING. the next morning I would like out my bedroom window, if I was lucky enough to make it home to see how I had parked my car...................then I would have to call people to find out what I had done. I'm sorry but I have never heard of a blackout hours after a person ingested their last drink.

As to his "52 days sober." Is he seeing a counsellor and going to meetings or using some form of recovery program? And even if he is, it takes a lot longer than 52 days.................................the first year sober the individual really needs to be working on themselves without distractions. The first few months there is fog, the thinking is still not clear, there is inner fighting between the part that wants to be sober and the one that still wants to drink.

I too wonder why you are even reading his emails, they are just words, words that mean nothing. His actions over the next months will show more than any words he can say.

Please do not feed into the guilt trip he is trying to put on you........that email was MANIPULATION plain and simple.

We alkies are CONS. We can sell refrigerators to eskimos and we make great Used Car Sales Personal, lol. And don't kid yourself, we can be great cons in sobriety to. It takes lots and lots of personal work for us to change ourselves. I have been working on me for over 25 years now and I'm still not the person I would like to be, roflmao but I sure ain't the person I used to be either, lol. Progress not perfection.

That right there says..................he's not doing this for himself, he's doing "whatever mommy says so he can get WHAT HE WANTS" his family. Well............if he keeps that attitude, then when you don't come back he will have an excuse to once again drink. I'm sorry he is no where ready to have you in his life.

You are one smart and compassionate lady to not subject your daughter to any further advances from this man.

The reality check for you right now is:

He's still manipulating.

I believe he's still not being truthful about what happened.

He's only 52 days sober.

Whatever emotional sadness he has right now, he has no one to blame but himself, you need not feed into it.

So..................please don't feel quilty, please stop reading his emails, when it is a MUST that you have to talk to him, make it only about something to do with the children.

Put the relationship on hold until his actions speak louder than his words and show you that there might be some hope.

You have nothing to feel guilty about!!! You have done and are doing the correct things!!!!!!!

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

mallowcup

My exs tactics worked for so long he relied on them. I stayed until I had absolutely no desire to fix anything. that's when he made the effort and I think he meant it. His efforts repulsed me because he just proved he could have tried and been nice all along. It wasnt until it was costing him something. He would have changed per usual until he got back in his comfort zone. I think a woman will stay until there is absolutely nothing left and when they are done, they are done. When they are done, he decides he better change or his nice little set up will change, no more free ride. The problem is, too little too late.

LongStrangeTrip

Laurie...

Thank you very much.
One thing I want to clarify is he WAS drunk off his butt the day he did this. Actually had been drinking since the night before and this happened in the late afternoon. However, there were a couple times he said inappropriate things to her while NOT drunk. Those are the times that make this all the more horrible. That is why I said that he did something during a black out that he thought about while not drunk.

mallowcup

This doesn't make sense.

Pick-a-name

Not to make light of his behavior,etc but even if someone is not actively drinking, the alcohol is still effecting all their thinking for a long time...it takes at least a month of NO ALCOHOL just to begin the process in the body(brain). If you haven't read "Under the Influence", you might like to pick it up...this is explained. Might answer some of your questions.

Hugs. Hope today is a better one for you.

laurie6781

Mallow:

With a blackout there is truly no memory. I had many while still practicing my alcoholism. I have since learned that the blackouts are the result of brain cells dying from an overload of alcohol and the memory is GONE FOR GOOD. That is why I would have to call those I was with the evening or day before to ask what happened after a certain time. No memory, gone, kaput, lol.

Long, thank you for the clarification, and yes he obviously acted out in a blackout things he had been thinking while not as drunk. And that is definitely behavior you do not want around your children, not only your daughter, but what is it teaching your son?

Long, I will reiterate, you have NO REASON to feel guilty!!! None whatsoever. You are doing and have done what is necessary for YOU AND THE CHILDREN to have some PEACE AND SERENITY in your lives.

You go girl!!!! You are an inspiration to some that still have not made any decisions on their situation.

Love and hugs,

LongStrangeTrip

We had our counselling session tonight. It did NOT go well at all. He is starting to feel the non drinking pressure full force and was nasty, yelling and cursing..the counselor had to tell him to calm down a couple times. He was yelling how he is sick of me throwing what he did in his face every time we get into an argument.
I replied that when he starts his ranting about wishing he could come home and how much he loves us and wishes this would all just go away and I say..."If you had stopped drinking one of the first 100 times I asked you to, instead of letting it get to this point, WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE IN THIS SITUATION."

I DO throw it in his face. I get so agry though and it just pops out in all different ways.

"Well, if you hadn't been drinking like this all of your life, we wouldn't be in this situation."
"If you hadn't done this, we would not be going through this right now."
"WHY did you have to let things get to this point before you finally woke up?!"

I have a million of them. Then, he went so far as to basically accuse of me of trying to persuade my daughter not to forgive him. He more or less said that I was feeding her with fuel to hate him. NOTHING could be further from the truth. BUT I explained to him yet again, that he does not even KNOW ME because he was so wrapped up in his addiction that he doesn't really know what kind of person I am.
I would never in a million years tell my daughter what to feel. That is insane. Why would I want my daughter NOT to forgive so that she can move on with her life.
I don't want her carrying this around forever for God's sake.

He is definitely still manipulative. I also realized today that I can't hear him when he talks to me. The minute he goes off topic from the house or our son, I shut down. All I hear is blah blah blah.
I told him tonight that's why I hang up on him most of the time. It's rediculous to sit there and waste time o the phone when I am not even hearing a word he says.

That's all i can say right now. I am exausted and mentally spent.

Kywoman

Long, I am going to address this as I used to be your daughter. First thing I wish to say to you is that it seems that the alcohol and sexual abuse are hand in hand here, and really they shouldn't be. They are two different sickness's.

My stepfather molested me as a baby and then again from the time I was 12 until I was 16. He is still an alcoholic. When I ran away from home to protect myself as no one else was, the police, children services, etc... was all involved. I had to take a lie detector test before he did because he kept denying it ever happened. He had repeatedly told people that he didn't recall or remember ever touching me nor did he remember saying horrible things to me. Such as calling me a ***** and telling me he knew I was sleeping with every Tom, Dick, and Harry we all knew. When in reality, I was still a virgin. Telling me he wanted to sleep with me because my mother was asleep. Etc, etc, etc.

When his time came for the lie detector test, he broke down and admitted everything. He no longer seemed to not recall. When they went home, my mother packed up my siblings (which were both his) and left the state with him because she was terrified of losing all of her children.

From that day forward, I learned that my stepfather had molested many people among both of the families. One person had tried to speak up and my mother made her feel so bad and guilty that she retracted her story. No one else ever stepped forward.

I can tell you that I never lived with him again, nor do I plan to. It simply won't happen. I have forgiven him, but I made it clear to him long ago that I would not allow him to touch me (or my children) in that manner ever. He knows where he stands. And my children know he is their grandfather, but they don't really have a relationship with him.

The alcohol issue is a deal breaker most times, but to add the molestation on top of it, I don't know if you can ever repair this. It strikes me as odd that he has dismissed it in the manner that he has. It suggests to me that he is not as regretful or sorry as he should be. Drinking is really not an excuse in my book for what he did.

I feel terrible for your son. My brother doesn't communicate with his father at all because of this. It is a sad, sad situation. I feel for you.

BohemiMamaof3

I agree with the last post by Kywoman. I think the seriousness of what happened with the moslestation should not be written off or lessened because of the alcohol (not that you are - but he seems like he is). If he murdered or seriously injured someone as a consequence of his drunkeness he would be up to his eyeballs in trouble. Well, he murdered a young woman's trust in her father-figure, a relationship that should be sacred. He killed her innocence. My 2 cents.

mazey

It's almost a "blessing" when they act up....reminds us of why we are where we are! It's when they start to be nice that we get kinda melancholy. Stay strong and focused. YOU are doing fine, and don't listen to his accusations. It's just his BS and distorted thinking to manipulate your tender heart. They DO know some of who we are!

gelfling

Laurie is straight on about the blackouts. If they are do suffer from them, they remember nothing. NOTHING!!!This has been told to me by my son and husband.

The day hubby admitted himself to rehab, he couldn't remember what happened in the last 36 hours. Only recollection was getting out of the truck at the bar then waking up 36 hours later in a parking lot no where near the bar.

Our son also experienced lots of blackouts. But it seems his lasted as long as a week or two. And he was only 23 at the time.

Though he's got 52 days without drink, he's not sober. Far from it considering the outcome of your counselling session.

You do know that nothing's changed and you're doing the right thing to help yourself and your kids. And stop responding to his emails and or calls. Set up boundaries where he only has permission to communicate with you via phone when he wants to visit the kids. And if there has no agreement on that issue, he has no reason to be contacting you at all. Delete the emails...they'll just keep making you crazy.

Blessings