Does anyone here attend al-anon and NOT have an HP?
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Does anyone here attend al-anon and NOT have an HP?
Before I get into this can I just say - I've no idea what went on last night/yesterday as I wasn't around, but I am not trying to bash a recovery program or whatever, I attend an Al-anon group weekly, I have a lot of literature, and I have genuine questions about me and al-anon.
I want to find a sponser, so that I can try and get more out of it than I currently am, but everyone in both of the groups I attend shares everytime in the context of their higher power, most of them choose to call their higher power god. Which is great for them obviously, and I understand the "take what you like and leave the rest" but having some notion of a higher power seems so central to al-anon that I don't see how I can go forward.
Last meeting, in the middle of other people's shares about gratitude (almost everyone of which focussed on the presence of their higher power in their lives) I was overwhelmed by sadness, because I don't see how this programme can help me. I don't have a higher power, its not that I havn't tried, at many points during my life I have tried to look for a higher power, seems such an inviting notion, but I havn't been able to believe in any "power" other than me and the power of other living things (and forces such as wind, electricity, waves etc).
(can I also say - I don't think I'm god or all-powerful or have power over others either as I've had suggested to me in my group).
I used to joke that if I was created by a superior being, they made me without the capacity to believe in them. Belief seems to be something that awakens in you, not that you choose to do, so I can't just *decide* that I'm going to believe.
Because of this, I find so much of al-anon extremely frustrating, and much of the advice seems non-sensical, and I don't see how I can work through the steps (2 and 3 spring to mind). How can I let go of a consequence (e.g. my child's wellbeing)? to a higher power when there is no higher power. I can see that it would be easier (although obviously still hard) if I believed in an omnipotent, all-seeing, benevolent god with a plan. That would be comforting, but to me it just seems like a prop (please don't think I am trying to offend here - I'm not, nor do I discount the possibility of a god/higher power/ many higher powers).
If anyone has any experience of this I would appreciate your share
(and I've put this here rather than in secular connections becuase it relates directly to my experience of F&F support).
I want to find a sponser, so that I can try and get more out of it than I currently am, but everyone in both of the groups I attend shares everytime in the context of their higher power, most of them choose to call their higher power god. Which is great for them obviously, and I understand the "take what you like and leave the rest" but having some notion of a higher power seems so central to al-anon that I don't see how I can go forward.
Last meeting, in the middle of other people's shares about gratitude (almost everyone of which focussed on the presence of their higher power in their lives) I was overwhelmed by sadness, because I don't see how this programme can help me. I don't have a higher power, its not that I havn't tried, at many points during my life I have tried to look for a higher power, seems such an inviting notion, but I havn't been able to believe in any "power" other than me and the power of other living things (and forces such as wind, electricity, waves etc).
(can I also say - I don't think I'm god or all-powerful or have power over others either as I've had suggested to me in my group).
I used to joke that if I was created by a superior being, they made me without the capacity to believe in them. Belief seems to be something that awakens in you, not that you choose to do, so I can't just *decide* that I'm going to believe.
Because of this, I find so much of al-anon extremely frustrating, and much of the advice seems non-sensical, and I don't see how I can work through the steps (2 and 3 spring to mind). How can I let go of a consequence (e.g. my child's wellbeing)? to a higher power when there is no higher power. I can see that it would be easier (although obviously still hard) if I believed in an omnipotent, all-seeing, benevolent god with a plan. That would be comforting, but to me it just seems like a prop (please don't think I am trying to offend here - I'm not, nor do I discount the possibility of a god/higher power/ many higher powers).
If anyone has any experience of this I would appreciate your share
(and I've put this here rather than in secular connections becuase it relates directly to my experience of F&F support).
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
Posts: 2,870
Ceri,
I know exactly what you are talking about. My old home group was large, and there were people from all walks of life... old, young, gay, straight, newcomers and oldtimers. There was a LOT of recovery in those rooms.
One of the things we discussed often was the notion of a higher power. For many, it's a difficult concept. I heard it suggested OFTEN that a person who didn't believe in the mainstream "God" could just use the group as a higher power at first.
Remember, Step 2 simply says "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Each person's higher power is just that- the one that works for him or her. And as you work your program, your concept of an HP will most likely evolve.
I know exactly what you are talking about. My old home group was large, and there were people from all walks of life... old, young, gay, straight, newcomers and oldtimers. There was a LOT of recovery in those rooms.
One of the things we discussed often was the notion of a higher power. For many, it's a difficult concept. I heard it suggested OFTEN that a person who didn't believe in the mainstream "God" could just use the group as a higher power at first.
Remember, Step 2 simply says "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." Each person's higher power is just that- the one that works for him or her. And as you work your program, your concept of an HP will most likely evolve.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
Posts: 2,870
This is from Courage To Change, One Day at a Time in Al Anon II:
January 13
Al Anon gives me great spiritual freedom because it encourages me to find a personal understanding of God, and to allow others the same freedom. Until I could think of God in terms that were meaningful to me, I was not able to truly turn my life over to a Higher Power.
My concept of God evolves. It changes and grows as I continue to change and grow. How wonderful it is, for now I sense a Higher Power that is as alive as I am! Never in my life did I dream of finding such a source of serenity, courage, and wisdom.
There is a sense of unique purpose to my journey through life. I am the only one who can live it, and I need the help of the God of my understanding in order to live it fully. Grounded in faith, I can hold tight to my course and meet the future with confidence.
Today’s reminder:
Once upon a time I was afraid to live life for myself. This was because I did not know how to do it and thought that there was no one to show me. Now I have a resource deep within me to guide me along life’s many roads. I am not alone on my journey.
“In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.” Albert Camus
January 13
Al Anon gives me great spiritual freedom because it encourages me to find a personal understanding of God, and to allow others the same freedom. Until I could think of God in terms that were meaningful to me, I was not able to truly turn my life over to a Higher Power.
My concept of God evolves. It changes and grows as I continue to change and grow. How wonderful it is, for now I sense a Higher Power that is as alive as I am! Never in my life did I dream of finding such a source of serenity, courage, and wisdom.
There is a sense of unique purpose to my journey through life. I am the only one who can live it, and I need the help of the God of my understanding in order to live it fully. Grounded in faith, I can hold tight to my course and meet the future with confidence.
Today’s reminder:
Once upon a time I was afraid to live life for myself. This was because I did not know how to do it and thought that there was no one to show me. Now I have a resource deep within me to guide me along life’s many roads. I am not alone on my journey.
“In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.” Albert Camus
Forum Leader
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
Posts: 2,870
Courage to Change ODAT in Al-Anon II
April 26
The most important words any of us hear when we first come to Al-Anon are, “Take what you like, and leave the rest.” Everything about our program is suggested, not required. This gives us the freedom to pick and choose. If we disagree with something, we don’t have to use it. If we are not ready to use a Step, slogan, or tool, we are free to wait.
Many of us need time to come to terms with the spiritual nature of the Al-Anon program. If were required to believe in a Higher Power in order to participate in Al-Anon, we might never have continued to attend meetings. Eventually, many of us do come to believe in a Higher Power because we are free to come to our own understanding in our time. That way, whatever we learn will have meaning for us.
When we take what we like and leave the rest, we give ourselves permission to challenge new ideas, to make decisions for ourselves, and even to change our minds.
Today’s Reminder
Because I am able to use whatever I find helpful and leave the rest, I can benefit from the experience, strength, and hope of others and still follow my own heart.
“With the help of this program and my Higher Power, I take charge of fashioning, shaping, choosing what kind of life I will have.”…In All Our Affairs
April 26
The most important words any of us hear when we first come to Al-Anon are, “Take what you like, and leave the rest.” Everything about our program is suggested, not required. This gives us the freedom to pick and choose. If we disagree with something, we don’t have to use it. If we are not ready to use a Step, slogan, or tool, we are free to wait.
Many of us need time to come to terms with the spiritual nature of the Al-Anon program. If were required to believe in a Higher Power in order to participate in Al-Anon, we might never have continued to attend meetings. Eventually, many of us do come to believe in a Higher Power because we are free to come to our own understanding in our time. That way, whatever we learn will have meaning for us.
When we take what we like and leave the rest, we give ourselves permission to challenge new ideas, to make decisions for ourselves, and even to change our minds.
Today’s Reminder
Because I am able to use whatever I find helpful and leave the rest, I can benefit from the experience, strength, and hope of others and still follow my own heart.
“With the help of this program and my Higher Power, I take charge of fashioning, shaping, choosing what kind of life I will have.”…In All Our Affairs
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Hi Ceridwen
Yes, I'm an agnostic in Al-Anon. I just had this discussion with someone else last night - many people at my meetings also use phrases like my HP, who I call God.
There have been meetings where the obvious vibe in the room is a religious one, not a spiritual one. When that's the case, I know it's not a meeting for me. I left organized religion a very, very, long time ago and, while I respect others beliefs, it is not for me.
An HP for me is this: an acceptance that I do not control everything that goes on in life, that the universe is bigger than me, and things happen that I cannot understand, but hope to learn from. This letting go of trying to control my own little universe has been extremely liberating for me.
When I admit in step one that I am powerless over alcohol, I am not saying I have no power. Look at step 11 - asking for POWER to carry that out.
It took me a while to realize I truly can take what I like and leave the rest.
There will always be those who want to force an agenda, a dogma, what have you. I leave them to it. The upside of being in the rooms far outweighs the negatives. If that were to change, I would stop going. I've been very fortunate that I've been able to establish friendships there with those who struggle with the hp/god concept, too.
In the end, at this stage in my recovery, I would say that my hp lies first within - a belief, acceptance or knowing, that I do not control; it then extends outward in understanding that each human being has his or her own hp (or not LOL) and all I need do is respect that.
I hope this makes some sense. I'm happy to have the discussion with you if want some back and forth.
I'd only add: don't worry about the sponsor/4th step thing right now. Let it happen organically, even if it is a long time down the road.
Yes, I'm an agnostic in Al-Anon. I just had this discussion with someone else last night - many people at my meetings also use phrases like my HP, who I call God.
There have been meetings where the obvious vibe in the room is a religious one, not a spiritual one. When that's the case, I know it's not a meeting for me. I left organized religion a very, very, long time ago and, while I respect others beliefs, it is not for me.
An HP for me is this: an acceptance that I do not control everything that goes on in life, that the universe is bigger than me, and things happen that I cannot understand, but hope to learn from. This letting go of trying to control my own little universe has been extremely liberating for me.
When I admit in step one that I am powerless over alcohol, I am not saying I have no power. Look at step 11 - asking for POWER to carry that out.
It took me a while to realize I truly can take what I like and leave the rest.
There will always be those who want to force an agenda, a dogma, what have you. I leave them to it. The upside of being in the rooms far outweighs the negatives. If that were to change, I would stop going. I've been very fortunate that I've been able to establish friendships there with those who struggle with the hp/god concept, too.
In the end, at this stage in my recovery, I would say that my hp lies first within - a belief, acceptance or knowing, that I do not control; it then extends outward in understanding that each human being has his or her own hp (or not LOL) and all I need do is respect that.
I hope this makes some sense. I'm happy to have the discussion with you if want some back and forth.
I'd only add: don't worry about the sponsor/4th step thing right now. Let it happen organically, even if it is a long time down the road.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
IMHO, being able to consider having a true HP (that we are NOT in complete control of our life) is basically the beginning of spituality.in this program; and for people like me, even in the Bible..the first of the two :great commandments).
As Denny said, it is an evolving relationship...at least kn my case and also for most people I have know..but it is a "relationship" meaning some kind of interacting.
For me;when I have difficulty with this (and I do sometimes,even though I thinks and feel I have "faith"...sometimes I do not have enough faith totrust it completely;so that would seem that I do not have FAITH,because if I did, I would trust completely....I am human!
) What I do is to pray and ask to have the faith to believe; to accept , to be giving the faith that I do not yet have and the willingness to believe. To be shown "how".... It works for me; I don't know how...but I guess that is what really gives me faith....that even though I do ot know how it is accomplished, when I ask HP for the gift to be able to believe, to trust...I do. That is what gives me the willingness to keep believing and trust more.
I hope this makes even a little sense.
Just the prayer: "Please help me to believe; become willing to believe", is all that you need. HP only helps volunteers (He isn't a codie like me )but when I am ready to accept His help,all I need to do is ask and He is ready,able and willing.........more than I ask for,too!
Willingness is the key that opens the door..IMHO
As Denny said, it is an evolving relationship...at least kn my case and also for most people I have know..but it is a "relationship" meaning some kind of interacting.
For me;when I have difficulty with this (and I do sometimes,even though I thinks and feel I have "faith"...sometimes I do not have enough faith totrust it completely;so that would seem that I do not have FAITH,because if I did, I would trust completely....I am human!
) What I do is to pray and ask to have the faith to believe; to accept , to be giving the faith that I do not yet have and the willingness to believe. To be shown "how".... It works for me; I don't know how...but I guess that is what really gives me faith....that even though I do ot know how it is accomplished, when I ask HP for the gift to be able to believe, to trust...I do. That is what gives me the willingness to keep believing and trust more.I hope this makes even a little sense.
Just the prayer: "Please help me to believe; become willing to believe", is all that you need. HP only helps volunteers (He isn't a codie like me
)but when I am ready to accept His help,all I need to do is ask and He is ready,able and willing.........more than I ask for,too!Willingness is the key that opens the door..IMHO
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Pick, I just want to add - I do not take the phrase "become willing to believe" as a quest to believe in "god." It is, for me, willing to believe in something greater than my own control. I am not seeking god.
I hope this is still within the topic ceridwen was asking about. I absolutely do not want to get into a "god" debate because I so respect those who choose to believe. I'm always grateful to those who respect my views.
I hope this is still within the topic ceridwen was asking about. I absolutely do not want to get into a "god" debate because I so respect those who choose to believe. I'm always grateful to those who respect my views.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by denny57
Pick, I just want to add - I do not take the phrase "become willing to believe" as a quest to believe in "god." It is, for me, willing to believe in something greater than my own control. I am not seeking god.
I hope this is still within the topic ceridwen was asking about. I absolutely do not want to get into a "god" debate because I so respect those who choose to believe. I'm always grateful to those who respect my views.
I hope this is still within the topic ceridwen was asking about. I absolutely do not want to get into a "god" debate because I so respect those who choose to believe. I'm always grateful to those who respect my views.
Thanks,Denny. I agree;on both counts. In fact, I hesitated to post for fear of starting that debate. There is no debate in my mind...that is all a personal thing ,IMHO. The journey each of us takes in our life with our own path and conclussions..some believe in God,others do not...that is not my concern.
Denny, you worded it better than I did: "It is, for me, willing to believe in something greater than my own control. I am not seeking god." That is really what I was trying to say. (Sometimes that means eventually coming to believe in God, and sometimes not.) It is that willingness to look outside ourselves; to acknowledge that I am not in total control where the shift takes place in thinking,IMHO.
If I stepped on any toes (saying the "God"word) please forgive me.that is not my intent. Take what you want and leave the rest!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
(Thanks,Denny....I suspected you would probably understand what I was trying to say, but I didn't want to discourage any other members/visitors who might be reading this; everyone's recovery is too important to side-track by my posts!)
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by *Ceridwen
Before I get into this can I just say - I've no idea what went on last night/yesterday as I wasn't around, but I am not trying to bash a recovery program or whatever, I attend an Al-anon group weekly, I have a lot of literature, and I have genuine questions about me and al-anon.
I want to find a sponser, so that I can try and get more out of it than I currently am, but everyone in both of the groups I attend shares everytime in the context of their higher power, most of them choose to call their higher power god. Which is great for them obviously, and I understand the "take what you like and leave the rest" but having some notion of a higher power seems so central to al-anon that I don't see how I can go forward.
Last meeting, in the middle of other people's shares about gratitude (almost everyone of which focussed on the presence of their higher power in their lives) I was overwhelmed by sadness, because I don't see how this programme can help me. I don't have a higher power, its not that I havn't tried, at many points during my life I have tried to look for a higher power, seems such an inviting notion, but I havn't been able to believe in any "power" other than me and the power of other living things (and forces such as wind, electricity, waves etc).
(can I also say - I don't think I'm god or all-powerful or have power over others either as I've had suggested to me in my group).
I used to joke that if I was created by a superior being, they made me without the capacity to believe in them. Belief seems to be something that awakens in you, not that you choose to do, so I can't just *decide* that I'm going to believe.
Because of this, I find so much of al-anon extremely frustrating, and much of the advice seems non-sensical, and I don't see how I can work through the steps (2 and 3 spring to mind). How can I let go of a consequence (e.g. my child's wellbeing)? to a higher power when there is no higher power. I can see that it would be easier (although obviously still hard) if I believed in an omnipotent, all-seeing, benevolent god with a plan. That would be comforting, but to me it just seems like a prop (please don't think I am trying to offend here - I'm not, nor do I discount the possibility of a god/higher power/ many higher powers).
If anyone has any experience of this I would appreciate your share
(and I've put this here rather than in secular connections becuase it relates directly to my experience of F&F support).
I want to find a sponser, so that I can try and get more out of it than I currently am, but everyone in both of the groups I attend shares everytime in the context of their higher power, most of them choose to call their higher power god. Which is great for them obviously, and I understand the "take what you like and leave the rest" but having some notion of a higher power seems so central to al-anon that I don't see how I can go forward.
Last meeting, in the middle of other people's shares about gratitude (almost everyone of which focussed on the presence of their higher power in their lives) I was overwhelmed by sadness, because I don't see how this programme can help me. I don't have a higher power, its not that I havn't tried, at many points during my life I have tried to look for a higher power, seems such an inviting notion, but I havn't been able to believe in any "power" other than me and the power of other living things (and forces such as wind, electricity, waves etc).
(can I also say - I don't think I'm god or all-powerful or have power over others either as I've had suggested to me in my group).
I used to joke that if I was created by a superior being, they made me without the capacity to believe in them. Belief seems to be something that awakens in you, not that you choose to do, so I can't just *decide* that I'm going to believe.
Because of this, I find so much of al-anon extremely frustrating, and much of the advice seems non-sensical, and I don't see how I can work through the steps (2 and 3 spring to mind). How can I let go of a consequence (e.g. my child's wellbeing)? to a higher power when there is no higher power. I can see that it would be easier (although obviously still hard) if I believed in an omnipotent, all-seeing, benevolent god with a plan. That would be comforting, but to me it just seems like a prop (please don't think I am trying to offend here - I'm not, nor do I discount the possibility of a god/higher power/ many higher powers).
If anyone has any experience of this I would appreciate your share
(and I've put this here rather than in secular connections becuase it relates directly to my experience of F&F support).
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
Hey Ceriwen -
I'll share my E,S,H with you.
When I got to Alanon (alittle over 2 years ago) I certainly didn't have a "god" or a HP in any shape or form...
I'm not religious at all - very spiritual though - and not raised in any organized religion growing up...But I had been searching in my life for something outside of myself - trying to make sense of why things happened. I guess I've alway believed in a universal force or such for good.
I was broken when I got to Alanon and extremely willing to do anything my sponsor suggested...Not that I didn't resist to some of the sugggestions (WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT ME TO PRAY?)..I had no idea what prayer or meditation or any of that meant..it wasn't very comfortable at first..
But I did what she asked. I liked to think of prayer like the Buddhist prayer of compassion etc. it helped.
My sponsor said that I didn't have to believe. Just to "believe that she believed"..so in an sense that was my HP at first.
so that's how I started...and gradually I have come to believe some stuff.
My higher power is a force/energy/universe that is part of me and is also outside of me. All I know is that it is more then I am and greater then me and wants the best for me.
I know that I have self-will but I also know that the universe/hp or whatever ultimately trumps my self-will...
Not sure I'm explaining myself cuz I'm still in the process of defining it myself..
in the beginning I went for other peoples experience, strength and hope...I can see how their faith works for them and that works for me.
I'll share my E,S,H with you.
When I got to Alanon (alittle over 2 years ago) I certainly didn't have a "god" or a HP in any shape or form...
I'm not religious at all - very spiritual though - and not raised in any organized religion growing up...But I had been searching in my life for something outside of myself - trying to make sense of why things happened. I guess I've alway believed in a universal force or such for good.
I was broken when I got to Alanon and extremely willing to do anything my sponsor suggested...Not that I didn't resist to some of the sugggestions (WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT ME TO PRAY?)..I had no idea what prayer or meditation or any of that meant..it wasn't very comfortable at first..
But I did what she asked. I liked to think of prayer like the Buddhist prayer of compassion etc. it helped.
My sponsor said that I didn't have to believe. Just to "believe that she believed"..so in an sense that was my HP at first.
so that's how I started...and gradually I have come to believe some stuff.
My higher power is a force/energy/universe that is part of me and is also outside of me. All I know is that it is more then I am and greater then me and wants the best for me.
I know that I have self-will but I also know that the universe/hp or whatever ultimately trumps my self-will...
Not sure I'm explaining myself cuz I'm still in the process of defining it myself..
in the beginning I went for other peoples experience, strength and hope...I can see how their faith works for them and that works for me.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
*Ceridwen
When I started, I did not believe that my concept of God would intervene "directly" in my life. Mine was a mean and vengeaful guy and I had long ago pissed Him off.
Instead, I relied on the power of a program that has been working for millions of others for decades.... the program itself was my HP. I "felt" my HP through the love I received from those in program, and the love I could give back. I did not consider my HP to be the same as "God".
It changed later, but that is how it started for me.
When I started, I did not believe that my concept of God would intervene "directly" in my life. Mine was a mean and vengeaful guy and I had long ago pissed Him off.
Instead, I relied on the power of a program that has been working for millions of others for decades.... the program itself was my HP. I "felt" my HP through the love I received from those in program, and the love I could give back. I did not consider my HP to be the same as "God".
It changed later, but that is how it started for me.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
Ceridwen, I can really relate to what you are saying. I still feel a bit uneasy when someone talks about their HP sounding so sure, at peace etc. etc. I feel left out, cheated or something, probably feel guilty that I cannot find this. Just a need to fit in. (However I love Al-Anon and AA.)
I believe there is a GOD, just because who else could have made Mother Nature?? I just cannot feel that he hears me.
I listen to a certain minister on late nite TV, and enjoy learning.
I Thank GOD for my blessings.
I am really confused, but I still can enjoy the meetings and the members.
You are not alone, hope you can hang in at meetings.
I believe there is a GOD, just because who else could have made Mother Nature?? I just cannot feel that he hears me.
I listen to a certain minister on late nite TV, and enjoy learning.
I Thank GOD for my blessings.
I am really confused, but I still can enjoy the meetings and the members.
You are not alone, hope you can hang in at meetings.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Zoey: it is a processess.it waxes and wanes.........it involves our active participation, in my experience. Minx and BigSis describe what I mean by that. Small steps. Quiet confidence that builds inside. My experience. When things "go well" and I start to forget I do not control everything, I go back and re-group. I think that is human nature.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
thanks everyone for replying, lots of things to think about (as always LOL) and thank you for letting me raise this here, I am aware that belief is a deeply personal thing.
I am reasured a little, I don't want to stop going to the groups, they are genuinely lovely people, I really welcome the peer support, and the absolute sense of love that I get when I'm there.
I can relate to much of what has been said above, I guess in some ways I do feel a bit like an imposter when I'm there, not fitting in, and that's very definately my thing, not the people in the group's - they are at pains to stress the spiritual nature rather than their own personal religous beliefs, and I can see that the belief in a higher power obviously helps them greatly, and I respect that and would never want to try and disrepect that or change it, and I have no quibbles with whatever name/term someone refers to their higher power.
its the very concept of any actual higher power itself that I don't understand - the "it doesn't matter what it is, as long as its not you". I can see how it would be useful and comforting, and tbh at times I have felt jealous of those who do believe in something (although I'm sure it must also bring its own questions and self searching). Bizzarly I am fascinated by all religions/faiths/other people's spiritual beliefs - but I always feel a bit like an alien looking in at "earth people" when I do, or as if I am somehow broken (and I SO hate not getting things first time, its an arrogance thing LOL).
thanks again to everyone and If its okay - I 'm going to pm a couple of people.
I am reasured a little, I don't want to stop going to the groups, they are genuinely lovely people, I really welcome the peer support, and the absolute sense of love that I get when I'm there.
I can relate to much of what has been said above, I guess in some ways I do feel a bit like an imposter when I'm there, not fitting in, and that's very definately my thing, not the people in the group's - they are at pains to stress the spiritual nature rather than their own personal religous beliefs, and I can see that the belief in a higher power obviously helps them greatly, and I respect that and would never want to try and disrepect that or change it, and I have no quibbles with whatever name/term someone refers to their higher power.
its the very concept of any actual higher power itself that I don't understand - the "it doesn't matter what it is, as long as its not you". I can see how it would be useful and comforting, and tbh at times I have felt jealous of those who do believe in something (although I'm sure it must also bring its own questions and self searching). Bizzarly I am fascinated by all religions/faiths/other people's spiritual beliefs - but I always feel a bit like an alien looking in at "earth people" when I do, or as if I am somehow broken (and I SO hate not getting things first time, its an arrogance thing LOL).
thanks again to everyone and If its okay - I 'm going to pm a couple of people.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Originally Posted by *Ceridwen
Before I get into this can I just say - I've no idea what went on last night/yesterday as I wasn't around, but I am not trying to bash a recovery program or whatever, I attend an Al-anon group weekly, I have a lot of literature, and I have genuine questions about me and al-anon.
I want to find a sponser, so that I can try and get more out of it than I currently am, but everyone in both of the groups I attend shares everytime in the context of their higher power, most of them choose to call their higher power god. Which is great for them obviously, and I understand the "take what you like and leave the rest" but having some notion of a higher power seems so central to al-anon that I don't see how I can go forward.
Last meeting, in the middle of other people's shares about gratitude (almost everyone of which focussed on the presence of their higher power in their lives) I was overwhelmed by sadness, because I don't see how this programme can help me. I don't have a higher power, its not that I havn't tried, at many points during my life I have tried to look for a higher power, seems such an inviting notion, but I havn't been able to believe in any "power" other than me and the power of other living things (and forces such as wind, electricity, waves etc).
(can I also say - I don't think I'm god or all-powerful or have power over others either as I've had suggested to me in my group).
I used to joke that if I was created by a superior being, they made me without the capacity to believe in them. Belief seems to be something that awakens in you, not that you choose to do, so I can't just *decide* that I'm going to believe.
Because of this, I find so much of al-anon extremely frustrating, and much of the advice seems non-sensical, and I don't see how I can work through the steps (2 and 3 spring to mind). How can I let go of a consequence (e.g. my child's wellbeing)? to a higher power when there is no higher power. I can see that it would be easier (although obviously still hard) if I believed in an omnipotent, all-seeing, benevolent god with a plan. That would be comforting, but to me it just seems like a prop (please don't think I am trying to offend here - I'm not, nor do I discount the possibility of a god/higher power/ many higher powers).
If anyone has any experience of this I would appreciate your share
(and I've put this here rather than in secular connections becuase it relates directly to my experience of F&F support).
I want to find a sponser, so that I can try and get more out of it than I currently am, but everyone in both of the groups I attend shares everytime in the context of their higher power, most of them choose to call their higher power god. Which is great for them obviously, and I understand the "take what you like and leave the rest" but having some notion of a higher power seems so central to al-anon that I don't see how I can go forward.
Last meeting, in the middle of other people's shares about gratitude (almost everyone of which focussed on the presence of their higher power in their lives) I was overwhelmed by sadness, because I don't see how this programme can help me. I don't have a higher power, its not that I havn't tried, at many points during my life I have tried to look for a higher power, seems such an inviting notion, but I havn't been able to believe in any "power" other than me and the power of other living things (and forces such as wind, electricity, waves etc).
(can I also say - I don't think I'm god or all-powerful or have power over others either as I've had suggested to me in my group).
I used to joke that if I was created by a superior being, they made me without the capacity to believe in them. Belief seems to be something that awakens in you, not that you choose to do, so I can't just *decide* that I'm going to believe.
Because of this, I find so much of al-anon extremely frustrating, and much of the advice seems non-sensical, and I don't see how I can work through the steps (2 and 3 spring to mind). How can I let go of a consequence (e.g. my child's wellbeing)? to a higher power when there is no higher power. I can see that it would be easier (although obviously still hard) if I believed in an omnipotent, all-seeing, benevolent god with a plan. That would be comforting, but to me it just seems like a prop (please don't think I am trying to offend here - I'm not, nor do I discount the possibility of a god/higher power/ many higher powers).
If anyone has any experience of this I would appreciate your share
(and I've put this here rather than in secular connections becuase it relates directly to my experience of F&F support).
You dont see now, but you will see how.....
if you just believe that others are recovering and you want what they have and are willing to do what they do, you will "come to" as it says in step 2.
willingness. thats all you need.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Ceridwen : I think you are "closer" than you think.thinking about this and asking questions shows that your mind is open to trying to understand.
S of B is correct(IMHO): WILLINGNESS is really all you need.
And as for not understanding,thinking you are different....I think that is probably how everyone feels about this whole HP....even people who do believe in one. It IS beyond our understanding...that is one of the things that makes me believe in a HP. (It is not a concept any mortal man could come up with.)
Great topic.......to me this is really where the heart of recovery occurs,IMHO. Willingness to believe in a power greater than ourselves....
S of B is correct(IMHO): WILLINGNESS is really all you need.
And as for not understanding,thinking you are different....I think that is probably how everyone feels about this whole HP....even people who do believe in one. It IS beyond our understanding...that is one of the things that makes me believe in a HP. (It is not a concept any mortal man could come up with.)
Great topic.......to me this is really where the heart of recovery occurs,IMHO. Willingness to believe in a power greater than ourselves....
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