Dry drunk?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 153
Dry drunk?
Thats another term I've heard, and I think I know what it is and am wondering if that is what I am.
I believe the term to mean an alcoholic off the booze, but still exhibiting self destructive behaviors. I know I do this, but I am not sure if it is because of alcoholism, or if alcoholism was the result of other psychological problems.
I have been sober somewhere around 70 days. I feel better physically, but still find myself doing some of the same things I did when I was drinking. I blamed it on the booze, but now I'm not so sure it's just not some huge personality flaw. I find that I almost intentionally go out of my way to provoke people to dislike me. I know that I do this... I know that I say things that I shouldn't but it's almost like I get a satisfaction out of having someone belittle me or insult me. It's kind of sick isn't it? Then I enjoy a pity party for myself..... bemoaning how unfair or unkind people are. I claim to hate it, but deep down it's really quite satisfying, in some odd crazy way. I did it again today.,, Deliberately set myself up for destain and criticism. I claim to want acceptance but I am starting to doubt it.
I really am considering therapy. I never thought I would. But I think this behavior stems from deeper seated problems that have nothing to do with booze. There is a lot of anger in me from past life events that I can't seem to shake. Booze only numbed me.... Now I suspect I have many other issues to deal with, Or maybe I am a dry drunk. Or maybe a sociopath... who knows.
Wow... I never would say any of this anywhere else. I know there are lots of people here struggling with all sorts of issues for which addiction may only be a symptom. I feel like a real pathetic nut case.
I believe the term to mean an alcoholic off the booze, but still exhibiting self destructive behaviors. I know I do this, but I am not sure if it is because of alcoholism, or if alcoholism was the result of other psychological problems.
I have been sober somewhere around 70 days. I feel better physically, but still find myself doing some of the same things I did when I was drinking. I blamed it on the booze, but now I'm not so sure it's just not some huge personality flaw. I find that I almost intentionally go out of my way to provoke people to dislike me. I know that I do this... I know that I say things that I shouldn't but it's almost like I get a satisfaction out of having someone belittle me or insult me. It's kind of sick isn't it? Then I enjoy a pity party for myself..... bemoaning how unfair or unkind people are. I claim to hate it, but deep down it's really quite satisfying, in some odd crazy way. I did it again today.,, Deliberately set myself up for destain and criticism. I claim to want acceptance but I am starting to doubt it.
I really am considering therapy. I never thought I would. But I think this behavior stems from deeper seated problems that have nothing to do with booze. There is a lot of anger in me from past life events that I can't seem to shake. Booze only numbed me.... Now I suspect I have many other issues to deal with, Or maybe I am a dry drunk. Or maybe a sociopath... who knows.
Wow... I never would say any of this anywhere else. I know there are lots of people here struggling with all sorts of issues for which addiction may only be a symptom. I feel like a real pathetic nut case.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SomeWhere, USA
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by Doodlebug
Thats another term I've heard, and I think I know what it is and am wondering if that is what I am.
I believe the term to mean an alcoholic off the booze, but still exhibiting self destructive behaviors. I know I do this, but I am not sure if it is because of alcoholism, or if alcoholism was the result of other psychological problems.
I have been sober somewhere around 70 days. I feel better physically, but still find myself doing some of the same things I did when I was drinking. I blamed it on the booze, but now I'm not so sure it's just not some huge personality flaw. I find that I almost intentionally go out of my way to provoke people to dislike me. I know that I do this... I know that I say things that I shouldn't but it's almost like I get a satisfaction out of having someone belittle me or insult me. It's kind of sick isn't it? Then I enjoy a pity party for myself..... bemoaning how unfair or unkind people are. I claim to hate it, but deep down it's really quite satisfying, in some odd crazy way. I did it again today.,, Deliberately set myself up for destain and criticism. I claim to want acceptance but I am starting to doubt it.
I really am considering therapy. I never thought I would. But I think this behavior stems from deeper seated problems that have nothing to do with booze. There is a lot of anger in me from past life events that I can't seem to shake. Booze only numbed me.... Now I suspect I have many other issues to deal with, Or maybe I am a dry drunk. Or maybe a sociopath... who knows.
Wow... I never would say any of this anywhere else. I know there are lots of people here struggling with all sorts of issues for which addiction may only be a symptom. I feel like a real pathetic nut case.
I believe the term to mean an alcoholic off the booze, but still exhibiting self destructive behaviors. I know I do this, but I am not sure if it is because of alcoholism, or if alcoholism was the result of other psychological problems.
I have been sober somewhere around 70 days. I feel better physically, but still find myself doing some of the same things I did when I was drinking. I blamed it on the booze, but now I'm not so sure it's just not some huge personality flaw. I find that I almost intentionally go out of my way to provoke people to dislike me. I know that I do this... I know that I say things that I shouldn't but it's almost like I get a satisfaction out of having someone belittle me or insult me. It's kind of sick isn't it? Then I enjoy a pity party for myself..... bemoaning how unfair or unkind people are. I claim to hate it, but deep down it's really quite satisfying, in some odd crazy way. I did it again today.,, Deliberately set myself up for destain and criticism. I claim to want acceptance but I am starting to doubt it.
I really am considering therapy. I never thought I would. But I think this behavior stems from deeper seated problems that have nothing to do with booze. There is a lot of anger in me from past life events that I can't seem to shake. Booze only numbed me.... Now I suspect I have many other issues to deal with, Or maybe I am a dry drunk. Or maybe a sociopath... who knows.
Wow... I never would say any of this anywhere else. I know there are lots of people here struggling with all sorts of issues for which addiction may only be a symptom. I feel like a real pathetic nut case.
new life
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: cypress tx
Posts: 247
First of all conrads on 70 days!
These symtoms sounds like we are almost on the same wave~ I literally had to relearn patience all over again to gain control my hostile nature towards others, its not 100% and I dont now if it will ever be, but I know that practicing patience and not jumping to conclusions, help my( kinder )socializing skills considerably.
These symtoms sounds like we are almost on the same wave~ I literally had to relearn patience all over again to gain control my hostile nature towards others, its not 100% and I dont now if it will ever be, but I know that practicing patience and not jumping to conclusions, help my( kinder )socializing skills considerably.
Been there and done.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Coast North America
Posts: 269
doodlebug:
i believe that most alcoholics are medicating deeper issues. i believe that alcoholism is a syndrome of deeper issues. alcoholism however creates a downward spiral all its own, of course. congrats on getting out of the downward sprial! Now on to deal with the other stuff.
i think you have a TON of insight.
--andrew
i believe that most alcoholics are medicating deeper issues. i believe that alcoholism is a syndrome of deeper issues. alcoholism however creates a downward spiral all its own, of course. congrats on getting out of the downward sprial! Now on to deal with the other stuff.
i think you have a TON of insight.
--andrew
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Here is the Dry Drunk info..
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info/a/aa081397.htm
I suggest a few months of AA meetings
they are like classrooms for enjoying life.
Read about PAWS too
http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm
And sure..why not see an addiction counselor?
It's a darn shame to get sober and still dislike yourself.
Blessings...:
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info/a/aa081397.htm
I suggest a few months of AA meetings
they are like classrooms for enjoying life.
Read about PAWS too
http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm
And sure..why not see an addiction counselor?
It's a darn shame to get sober and still dislike yourself.
Blessings...:
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
(((Doodlebug))).....
Well, you're not alone there. For me, I think it's more impulsive than intentional, but I understand how you feel. It really seems more magnified when you're in a healing "environment" such as this, when you really have to watch what you say, since some are more sensitive than others, or at different stges of recovery, with different issues. At least you're AWARE of what you're doing..... know what I mean? I'm struggling with the same issues, but for me I think it boils down to impulse control.
Doodlebug, you are NOT a dry drunk. Kick those words out of your vocabulary forever. Therapy is a good idea. Would you go back to that therapst if he/she labeled you a dry drunk?? Of course not! It's not even a legitimate diagnosis.
I wondered about this for a long time too, because it seems to be an inherent family trait. I'm still numb to others' feelings at times, but I'm pleased to notice that I am able to genuinely empathize and relate to others..... like YOU!! I have noticed in your posts that you are capable of empathy too, Doodlebug. You're working through a lot of issues right now, and as you become more comfortable in your sobriety, this will be much less of a concern, or at least easier to work through. The important thing is that you are in touch with yourself, and that you care about your progress.
You're a good person.
Originally Posted by Doodlebug
I find that I almost intentionally go out of my way to provoke people to dislike me. I know that I do this... I know that I say things that I shouldn't.....
Or maybe I am a dry drunk.
Or maybe a sociopath... who knows.
You're a good person.
Not the center of the Universe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Orchard Lake, Michigan
Posts: 974
Hey Doodlebug,
Big congratulations on 70 days! But it is only 70 days so don't be too concerned that everything hasn't completely turned around yet. For sure, it way too soon to decide that you are a nut case, and you can't be a pathetic nut case as long as you are working to change. There's nothing pathetic about recovery. It would be great if all it took was stopping drinking but that's just not the case for many of us. I think it took most of the first year before I started to feel the real change in me.
That first link that Carol posted is just chock full of useful information but for some reason the part about grieving makes more sense to me today than it did when I was actually going through it. I so did not want to be an alcoholic and even after admitting to myself that I was, I did not want to have to go through what I perceived as the whole hassle of recovery. I just wanted it to go away and I certainly didn't want to have to work on changing. The whole idea of having to work on changing myself sounded... well... pathetic to me.
One Love, One Heart,
Tony
Big congratulations on 70 days! But it is only 70 days so don't be too concerned that everything hasn't completely turned around yet. For sure, it way too soon to decide that you are a nut case, and you can't be a pathetic nut case as long as you are working to change. There's nothing pathetic about recovery. It would be great if all it took was stopping drinking but that's just not the case for many of us. I think it took most of the first year before I started to feel the real change in me.
That first link that Carol posted is just chock full of useful information but for some reason the part about grieving makes more sense to me today than it did when I was actually going through it. I so did not want to be an alcoholic and even after admitting to myself that I was, I did not want to have to go through what I perceived as the whole hassle of recovery. I just wanted it to go away and I certainly didn't want to have to work on changing. The whole idea of having to work on changing myself sounded... well... pathetic to me.
One Love, One Heart,
Tony
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
I think I understand but before I say anything else I may be way off the mark and I'm definately not suggesting you need to get diagnosed with anything and I am definately not in the position to do that.
I can relate on a personal level though and share my experience in the hope that maybe it might help you even a little but I may be way off the mark :-)
I used to have a need to self-destruct, it was a lack of self esteem and an excess of self-hatred that caused me to do that. It was because of my history and unprocessed issues. I was very angry amongst other things.
I saw a psychiatrist for some time with regard to getting me stable on medication (depression and anxiety) and I was given a few diagnosis that fitted for me and made sense.
I was diagnosed with borderline and avoidant personality disorder traits and when I started reading up on them I was amazed at how much they spoke to me about my childhood and life. One of the criteria was the way I took street drugs and used to binge drink in order to dissociate from my feelings. I was a basket case and it was my form of self harm. I believe these things operate on a continuum.
As my psychiatrist said to me at one point - "why do you hate yourself? it's your childhood that caused you to be the way you are".
Therapy/counselling was and still is the most fruitful thing for helping me overcome my self destructive tendencies.
Personality disorder traits are only diagnosed if they are long term (possibly since late adolescence) and have and do cause continual pain in a persons life.
Also personality disorders aren't viewed very kindly by society, which is ironic because in some way most people could relate to some of the criteria.
That's changing thankfully as new research confirms brain growth deficiencies in caused by a chaotic and invalidating childhood and brain chemistry and amygdala growth changes as a result. The amygdala is the emotional control center of the brain.
Physical and sexual abuse in childhood (major invalidation) is a major cause as is grief and loss through abandonment and death of a parent. I found that the fear of abandonment was so subconscious I used to cause it through my actions but I wasn't aware that that was what I was doing. I used to hate myself so much I'd overdisclose to new friends and possible partners about all the things I didn't like about myself so that if they knew up front they wouldn't abandon me later when I'd become emotionally attached to them, which happened very quickly.
I hesitated in writing this post, please don't take offence at anything I've said and please disregard at will of course. I am not suggesting you have personality disorder traits but maybe you will relate in some way or another.
If you do you could maybe check out a book called "The Angry Heart - Overcoming Borderline and Addictive Disorders' by Joseph Santoro PH.D. He has a web site but I've been asked by admin not to post links so you could search for it on google. If you do relate to any of this it might help a little to check it out.
If you are interested I could post some of the exercises from the book.
Please know I am not judging you in any way in this post and I could and probably am way off the mark. Now I don't know how to end the post other than say I hope it helped in some way and didn't offend, that's the last thing I intended to do. Counselling or therapy really does help though, I can really recommend it.
I can relate on a personal level though and share my experience in the hope that maybe it might help you even a little but I may be way off the mark :-)
I used to have a need to self-destruct, it was a lack of self esteem and an excess of self-hatred that caused me to do that. It was because of my history and unprocessed issues. I was very angry amongst other things.
I saw a psychiatrist for some time with regard to getting me stable on medication (depression and anxiety) and I was given a few diagnosis that fitted for me and made sense.
I was diagnosed with borderline and avoidant personality disorder traits and when I started reading up on them I was amazed at how much they spoke to me about my childhood and life. One of the criteria was the way I took street drugs and used to binge drink in order to dissociate from my feelings. I was a basket case and it was my form of self harm. I believe these things operate on a continuum.
As my psychiatrist said to me at one point - "why do you hate yourself? it's your childhood that caused you to be the way you are".
Therapy/counselling was and still is the most fruitful thing for helping me overcome my self destructive tendencies.
Personality disorder traits are only diagnosed if they are long term (possibly since late adolescence) and have and do cause continual pain in a persons life.
Also personality disorders aren't viewed very kindly by society, which is ironic because in some way most people could relate to some of the criteria.
That's changing thankfully as new research confirms brain growth deficiencies in caused by a chaotic and invalidating childhood and brain chemistry and amygdala growth changes as a result. The amygdala is the emotional control center of the brain.
Physical and sexual abuse in childhood (major invalidation) is a major cause as is grief and loss through abandonment and death of a parent. I found that the fear of abandonment was so subconscious I used to cause it through my actions but I wasn't aware that that was what I was doing. I used to hate myself so much I'd overdisclose to new friends and possible partners about all the things I didn't like about myself so that if they knew up front they wouldn't abandon me later when I'd become emotionally attached to them, which happened very quickly.
I hesitated in writing this post, please don't take offence at anything I've said and please disregard at will of course. I am not suggesting you have personality disorder traits but maybe you will relate in some way or another.
If you do you could maybe check out a book called "The Angry Heart - Overcoming Borderline and Addictive Disorders' by Joseph Santoro PH.D. He has a web site but I've been asked by admin not to post links so you could search for it on google. If you do relate to any of this it might help a little to check it out.
If you are interested I could post some of the exercises from the book.
Please know I am not judging you in any way in this post and I could and probably am way off the mark. Now I don't know how to end the post other than say I hope it helped in some way and didn't offend, that's the last thing I intended to do. Counselling or therapy really does help though, I can really recommend it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 153
((((Amandajame))))) Thank you for your response. I am not offended... how could I be? You were posting of your experiences and from your viewpoint and your post was very insightful and helpful to me.
I know about the self hate thing. I was raised by an alcoholic abusive father. I was criticized, belittled, and emotionally abused since I was old enough to remember. I hated him.....and I loved him.... he was my dad after all. Dads are supposed to love their little girls, not hate them. Mine hated me I'm afraid. I don't know why. I think it was from his childhood and his inherant dislike of anything female. But I can't psychoanalyse him now. He has been dead 2 years, and didn't speak to me for the last 2 years of his life. I don't even know why.
I don't know why I intentially try to drive people away. But I know I do. I either just don't let them close to me at all..... or if I do, then I purposely try to pick a fight or cause them to reject me. I have thought about this and perhaps I am just so lacking in the self esteem department due to my upbringing, that I intentionally recreate that feeling my father instilled in me for my entire childhood and even in my adulthood. I know about the oedipus complex that males have for moms, but mine is the female opposite. (does that have a name) My father has infected my life with his abusiveness and even as an adult.... it affect me. There was never any sexual abuse or serious physical abuse..... just nonrelenting emotional turmoil and constant fear of his rath.
How does one get to "like" being hated and causing people to say and do things to bring on that old feeling.... I think this is the weirdest thing I could ever admit to. But it's so very much a part of me that I don't even realize I'm doing it until it's done. Yesterday after doing this again, I realized that I was almost in a state of euphoria...for lack of a better word... Almost like being high for crying out loud. Nope not normal.... I can see this now but not sure how to stop it before it happens. But at least my sober eye sees it and that's a start. I think I am a good person however my self hatred is getting in the way.
I know about the self hate thing. I was raised by an alcoholic abusive father. I was criticized, belittled, and emotionally abused since I was old enough to remember. I hated him.....and I loved him.... he was my dad after all. Dads are supposed to love their little girls, not hate them. Mine hated me I'm afraid. I don't know why. I think it was from his childhood and his inherant dislike of anything female. But I can't psychoanalyse him now. He has been dead 2 years, and didn't speak to me for the last 2 years of his life. I don't even know why.
I don't know why I intentially try to drive people away. But I know I do. I either just don't let them close to me at all..... or if I do, then I purposely try to pick a fight or cause them to reject me. I have thought about this and perhaps I am just so lacking in the self esteem department due to my upbringing, that I intentionally recreate that feeling my father instilled in me for my entire childhood and even in my adulthood. I know about the oedipus complex that males have for moms, but mine is the female opposite. (does that have a name) My father has infected my life with his abusiveness and even as an adult.... it affect me. There was never any sexual abuse or serious physical abuse..... just nonrelenting emotional turmoil and constant fear of his rath.
How does one get to "like" being hated and causing people to say and do things to bring on that old feeling.... I think this is the weirdest thing I could ever admit to. But it's so very much a part of me that I don't even realize I'm doing it until it's done. Yesterday after doing this again, I realized that I was almost in a state of euphoria...for lack of a better word... Almost like being high for crying out loud. Nope not normal.... I can see this now but not sure how to stop it before it happens. But at least my sober eye sees it and that's a start. I think I am a good person however my self hatred is getting in the way.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 189
The female counter of the Oedipus complex is called the Electra complex... Im not sure that is what you are describing.... But I do understand your post.. Most young girls who didn't have the "bonding needs" met by the father figures in their lives spend the rest of their lives trying to "fill" that need with other things... Men, material things, alcohol, drugs, ect... The thing that causes them to fail in their search to fill that need is that nothing can take the place of the "father bond" that they did not recieve.. So they have already set out on a journey of failure, subconsciously they are not aware of this. They are also very afraid of trusting anyone becouse the one person who was "suspose to love and protect them above all others" didn't and most of the time was their abuser. Therefore how can they trust people who are not suspose to love and protect them, if the one who was suspose to didn't. It is so twisted in their minds that they NEED love, acceptance, someone to care about them and they want that more than anything. But the moment anyone gets too close the fear of trust gets too strong and forces them to push that person out of their lives to prevent them from being hurt again. Like the "father" hurt them. There is a lot more I could explain, but it would take too much space and time.... I work in this field, but my main experience comes from being the child of alcoholic parents and a child of abuse physical, emotional, sexual, and spiritual. I could not get sober until I went to a therapist and got some help for my "issues" becouse what I was doing all those years was medicating my pain from my childhood and my mentalhealth issues... After seeing a therapist and being in AA for 5 years not being able to get sober in those 5 yrs. I was finally able to get sober when I began to work on my issues from my past. AA has steps to do this for people who are not as deeply scared as I was. I needed a professional to reach me. The 4th and 5th steps and then the 8th and 9th steps work for a lot of people in the program. And I did have to work those steps when I got to them, sober. But I needed a professional to get me to the point that I could actually "get sober" so I could work the steps of AA.. Some of us have had serious damage done to us as children that we are not to blame for but we must work through to release the pain. That is what I had to do so I could stop numbing the pain with alcohol.... A therapist is a great Idea, just make sure you get one who works with addicts/alcoholics... There is a very big difference in therapist who are familure with alcoholism and the ones who are not..... Love to all Debs
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
Hi again Doodlebug, I'm so sorry to hear of your relationship with your father, that must have been very difficult. My father passed from leukemia when I was 11 but when I hear about childhoods like yours some of the 'what if's don't seem so hard anymore.
I relate to the 'normality' of chaos and am thinking that the sense of euphoria you are feeling maybe because crisis and turmoil is the way your brain is programmed because of your childhood (for want of a better expression). It's maybe the neuronal pathways that are embedded in our brains and they are difficult to recognise and change because life like that seems so 'normal'.
The fear of abandonment has been such an issue for me, I so understand how it feels.
Do you ever feel like life is like this?
If you do you can stop it and get off, counselling/therapy and recovery, you can do it and it is possible. You *are* a good person. (((hugs))) to you.
I relate to the 'normality' of chaos and am thinking that the sense of euphoria you are feeling maybe because crisis and turmoil is the way your brain is programmed because of your childhood (for want of a better expression). It's maybe the neuronal pathways that are embedded in our brains and they are difficult to recognise and change because life like that seems so 'normal'.
The fear of abandonment has been such an issue for me, I so understand how it feels.
Do you ever feel like life is like this?
If you do you can stop it and get off, counselling/therapy and recovery, you can do it and it is possible. You *are* a good person. (((hugs))) to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by debsjsu
There is a lot more I could explain, but it would take too much space and time....
Wow... Debsjsu... Thank you so much for your time and for explaining what you did. If you ever have the time I would love to read more. Or if you could point me toward some literature on this topic, I would greatly appreciate it. I also want to thank each and every one of you who took the time to read my story and to respond. This means a great deal to me. It's good to know there are people here who understand this pain and who are willing to listen and lend some insight.
A long long time ago when I was in my mid-30's I briefly attended meeting of an "adult child's" group. I knew many of my problems stemmed from being raised and abused by an alcoholic, but I really didn't think I was as damaged as the people I met there. They were alcoholics too!!!! Imagine that!!! I didn't drink back then. And I could not imagine for the life of me how someone raised in that atmosphere could ever allow themselves to drink. The psyches of these people seemed just a little to ragged to me so I stopped going. Smug huh...? You betcha. Boy have I learned.
I started drinking daily in my mid-40's, blaming a bad marriage, a stressful career, perimenopause... anything I could think of. I drank for 10 years and I think I realized I had a problem aboout 5 years ago. Everything kept me from facing it. Now I had Widowhood, menopause, my father's death to blame.
I met a very wonderful man after my late husband died. He was unlike any man I ever met. He was kind, gentle, understanding, and loved me unconditionally. Though I did my very best to drive him away, he stuck it out. He is the only person in my life that I trust. We married 3 years ago. I quit drinking and decided to seek help with my issues for his sake as well as mine. He deserves a sober soulmate. I deserve to be sober.
But the issues are still there and hurt like hell. I still think of my dad daily, I still wonder why he hated me so. I still grieve that any chance of resolving these things with him died with him 2 years ago. Now I need to do this alone, with the support of my wonderful husband that is. Looking this deeply into my psyche is painful. I think I understand most of the problems and the reasons they occur. It's just stopping them from occuring that's the problem. How does one stop this deep ingrained behavior? One day at a time perhaps? I can only vow to persue help and continue my journey.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
