Counting the days..
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Counting the days..
I'm interested in something that appeared on another thread. Leviathon wrote this:
I'm interested in the part about counting. We've all - without exception even? - tried to stopped drinking and picked up again. Probably pretty much all of us will have tried many times. I have been around problem drinkers on other forums who use the length of their sobriety as a symbol of their status, as confirmation that their suggestions and advice have more value. Often, like all of us, they have been in one of those dry periods warming up for another drink. So there have been times when I have counted, and there have been times when I haven't. This time I experienced what AA literature describes as the "vital psychic change" which is necessary to commence recovery - and as we all know, no one programme has a monopoly on vital psychic changes. I know my sober birthday, I know I've been sober for three years, but I don't want or need to count the days or the weeks or the months. I know when I changed, and as long as I don't backslide, that's good enough for me. But I'm interested in this idea though that under no circumstances do some people divulge how long they've been sober. Why? On thoe one hand, as I say here, I understand not wanting to make a big deal about it. But why keep it secret?
I am in agreement with the refusal to provide sobriety in days, months and years.... my experience with this evolved over time... there were times that I floated through without any issues and other times that I slipped. I do know that one constant change has evolved through my recovery, that I no longer have the desire to drink to oblivion. When I have slipped, I immediately regained my balance and moved forward and learned from the slip.
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Hi ya, I count sober days at the moment.Yes i agree to a degree with what your sayin !, is why count...?!.
Im new to stopping drinking so for me its a great guide line as to were im at, be it n the dumps or ontop of the hill.
Depenends on the day...? so i count. ?
But im i eternally destined to count how long it takes for me to mess up, or should i at less try n do something.If even just understanding abit more about me and alchol aswell...So for me it works for the moment...!
The future is not today...
I Love Levi's posts...x
Im new to stopping drinking so for me its a great guide line as to were im at, be it n the dumps or ontop of the hill.
Depenends on the day...? so i count. ?
But im i eternally destined to count how long it takes for me to mess up, or should i at less try n do something.If even just understanding abit more about me and alchol aswell...So for me it works for the moment...!
The future is not today...
I Love Levi's posts...x
alconaut
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I'm glad you started this thread Paul..... I was going to start one as well, only it was going to be geared more toward people's thoughts about their own sober time in general.
I wonder the same thing as you, because I treasure my sobriety date. Still, it's not on SR's birthday calendar, and I prefer not to shout it from the rooftops, almost like I don't want to jinx myself. I don't mind if someone notices, but I don't sulk if they don't. I'll never be one of those types to use it as a symbol of status or superiority, because there are far more people who know more about alcohol dependence who still use or slip than I do now or maybe ever will.
I think for many, it is a real sign of humility, or perhaps they still like to nip from time to time and deduce that it has no bearing on recovery related issues.
I really don't see many people make much pomp and circumstance out of their sobriety dates, either here or in the rooms of AA. They are generally regarded as wiser I suppose, but not much more than that, so I share your curiosity.
I wonder the same thing as you, because I treasure my sobriety date. Still, it's not on SR's birthday calendar, and I prefer not to shout it from the rooftops, almost like I don't want to jinx myself. I don't mind if someone notices, but I don't sulk if they don't. I'll never be one of those types to use it as a symbol of status or superiority, because there are far more people who know more about alcohol dependence who still use or slip than I do now or maybe ever will.
I think for many, it is a real sign of humility, or perhaps they still like to nip from time to time and deduce that it has no bearing on recovery related issues.
I really don't see many people make much pomp and circumstance out of their sobriety dates, either here or in the rooms of AA. They are generally regarded as wiser I suppose, but not much more than that, so I share your curiosity.
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I personally find the idea that there are two lives lived when one is alcoholic. One drunk, the other in recovery.
Someone people, to get that pschic change you talk about, seem to have to completley write off and reframe their past. Or come to reunderstand it. Something dramatic. Others just see quitting drinking as a part of their lives and move on. I personally find comments like he has 'good sobriety' repulsive. The intrinsic worth of anyone is for me to decide, and me only. I have met evil bas ta rds dry, and saints who are giddy.
Someone people, to get that pschic change you talk about, seem to have to completley write off and reframe their past. Or come to reunderstand it. Something dramatic. Others just see quitting drinking as a part of their lives and move on. I personally find comments like he has 'good sobriety' repulsive. The intrinsic worth of anyone is for me to decide, and me only. I have met evil bas ta rds dry, and saints who are giddy.
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But more to your point, ever heard of loaded language? Some people dont use the recovery speak because its loaded, deceptive, and full up with religiousity and moralising. "Sobriety" for instance means many different things that someone times it best to just ignore the whole paradigm and get the hell out!
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Now I have some real distance from 'alcoholics' and the whole recovery movement (appart from SR of course) then the loaded language adjusts to normal time.
Like on holiday I told someone 'I quit drinking three years ago'. And that felt normal. And real nice. Where if I had said 'I've got three years soberiety', it would be all loaded and weird.
Hard to explain.
Like on holiday I told someone 'I quit drinking three years ago'. And that felt normal. And real nice. Where if I had said 'I've got three years soberiety', it would be all loaded and weird.
Hard to explain.
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Great thread, thanks.
I saw the other thread you refer to, where Levi posted his line of thought. In full context (not that you took it out of context, but just for the benefit of further discussion) it was in response to DonS stating that he "never answers the "how long" question".
To which I replied, "Me neither.For me, it is another form of prejudgement I wish to be freed of, not reinforced."
I wanted to elaborate. In my own sobriety, so, FOR MYSELF, meaning personally, I do measure my sober "growth" in terms of time (years, months, whatever). So, I DO keep a count internally.
But its not useful to measure progreess this way as a general concept, and this is the real issue for me surrounding NOT telling others "how long" I am sober.
It raises so many questions, such as "what IS time?" As one of my early early sponsors whom I adore said to me, "time is not OF the essence, time IS the essence"
I think she means that, how we pass or mark our time is esssentially a very personal experience marked by very personal choices made moment by moment. Therefore, my "year" is different than your "year", in sobriety as well as in other areas of maturation.
So, at best, telling you how long, thereby inviting you to measure my sober growth and progress, is meaningless. Investing in meaningless prejudgements are impediments to honest relations. For me.
So, its a "yes" and "no" answer to the topic question, for me. I "count days" to myself. But I don't count YOUR days, and don't let you count MINE.
I saw the other thread you refer to, where Levi posted his line of thought. In full context (not that you took it out of context, but just for the benefit of further discussion) it was in response to DonS stating that he "never answers the "how long" question".
To which I replied, "Me neither.For me, it is another form of prejudgement I wish to be freed of, not reinforced."
I wanted to elaborate. In my own sobriety, so, FOR MYSELF, meaning personally, I do measure my sober "growth" in terms of time (years, months, whatever). So, I DO keep a count internally.
But its not useful to measure progreess this way as a general concept, and this is the real issue for me surrounding NOT telling others "how long" I am sober.
It raises so many questions, such as "what IS time?" As one of my early early sponsors whom I adore said to me, "time is not OF the essence, time IS the essence"
I think she means that, how we pass or mark our time is esssentially a very personal experience marked by very personal choices made moment by moment. Therefore, my "year" is different than your "year", in sobriety as well as in other areas of maturation.
So, at best, telling you how long, thereby inviting you to measure my sober growth and progress, is meaningless. Investing in meaningless prejudgements are impediments to honest relations. For me.
So, its a "yes" and "no" answer to the topic question, for me. I "count days" to myself. But I don't count YOUR days, and don't let you count MINE.
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Thanks for you replies.
Five, this got me thinking:
I like this. Am I right in saying that what you're telling me is that quitting drinking is more like passing your driving test? A significant achievement, but one that all of us would be hard pressed to put a date to? I think that is how I feel about mine. But at the same time, getting sober has meant a lot more to me than learning to drive. But I like the sentiment. I couldn't one day. Then the next I could. As long as I took care....
As for loaded language though,wouldn't "deceptive", "religiosity" and "moralising" count too?
I know that feeling - Autumn - about "jinxing" one's self though. For a long time I didn't know when I quit, because I was a little fearful that something undefined might go wrong as a result. It took me a long time to accept the truth of the saying, "keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting". Took me a long time to trust that.
miss communicat, thank you for your reply. I need to think about it. I respect what you've said, and I understand from what you're written elsewhere that you have greater experience than me. But I don't understand how keeping secrets is less of an impediment to honest relations. Sorry, that sounds like I'm trying to force an issue, and I'm not. I just don't understand.
Five, this got me thinking:
But more to your point, ever heard of loaded language? Some people dont use the recovery speak because its loaded, deceptive, and full up with religiousity and moralising. "Sobriety" for instance means many different things that someone times it best to just ignore the whole paradigm and get the hell out!
As for loaded language though,wouldn't "deceptive", "religiosity" and "moralising" count too?
I know that feeling - Autumn - about "jinxing" one's self though. For a long time I didn't know when I quit, because I was a little fearful that something undefined might go wrong as a result. It took me a long time to accept the truth of the saying, "keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting". Took me a long time to trust that.
miss communicat, thank you for your reply. I need to think about it. I respect what you've said, and I understand from what you're written elsewhere that you have greater experience than me. But I don't understand how keeping secrets is less of an impediment to honest relations. Sorry, that sounds like I'm trying to force an issue, and I'm not. I just don't understand.
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I am not keeping anything secret. I am sober today. period.
The record of my days is not public information, but that does not mean its a secret.
Just like there is a huge distinction between "privacy" and "secrecy".
One is about wielding power and control over another and the other is knowing how to be good to oneself and how to take good care of onself.
I keep the length of my sobrieety private, but the fact that I am sober is no secret.
The record of my days is not public information, but that does not mean its a secret.
Just like there is a huge distinction between "privacy" and "secrecy".
One is about wielding power and control over another and the other is knowing how to be good to oneself and how to take good care of onself.
I keep the length of my sobrieety private, but the fact that I am sober is no secret.
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also, just so you know I am a reasonable person: my friends and family know the length of my sobriety. I speak at AA meetings and make no "secret" of my drinking history as well as present state of life. My home group in AA knows my story and can patch together the dates if they want. I live my life quite openly.
No secrets, just a matter of choice.
No secrets, just a matter of choice.
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For me stopping had to be done otherwise I was really going to blow. So it did not take a huge deal of effort. I woke up. Some people never wake up. The minimise the affects of alcohol and probably die of it. Lets put it this way - each belief has other beliefs that follow from it. So, if I believe that God stoped me drinking, then logically a load of other beliefs follow that. AA is a belief system (like it or not) and all the beliefs are logically linked. Some people, like the statement of 'time', reject AA's loaded language, because it is wrapped up in its logic!
AAAAAAAARrrrrrrrrgh going nuts. The Time thing is an AA thing, as far as I can tell. Thats what I am trying to say he he he.
AAAAAAAARrrrrrrrrgh going nuts. The Time thing is an AA thing, as far as I can tell. Thats what I am trying to say he he he.
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For me I have decided to set goals rather than count the days. I am new at this, but like much else I do and have done, it has to work for me. I had 20 days, drank a day, and now I havbe 9 but that's not important. I havn't lost my focus, I realized I needed a few goals.
Physically, One is to run 5 miles, I did that this morning. My new goal in that catagory is to run five miles without dragging my a**. Like to do it in 40 min I took 52 today.
Personally, I would like to have a more peaceful relationship wiht my husband and doughters. I am working toward a master degree, and I will then persue my PHD
On Sobriety, to be able to continue my current life style, attend fund raisers, dock parties and keep entertaining while all the long staying sober, there is not much that goes on in my town that doesn't include drinking so It what I gotta do...
... and finally I know many of you take a day to day aprouch on staying sober but I need to set a longer goals of staying. IMaking through the summer, summer has always been my party time, my birthday, my husbands birthday, boats, BBQ's etc. If I can accomplish this then I can accomplish anything.
Since my first two sets of goals rely on attaining my third set I have given myself a stake in me not drinking, something to throw in the face of the demon.
Physically, One is to run 5 miles, I did that this morning. My new goal in that catagory is to run five miles without dragging my a**. Like to do it in 40 min I took 52 today.
Personally, I would like to have a more peaceful relationship wiht my husband and doughters. I am working toward a master degree, and I will then persue my PHD
On Sobriety, to be able to continue my current life style, attend fund raisers, dock parties and keep entertaining while all the long staying sober, there is not much that goes on in my town that doesn't include drinking so It what I gotta do...
... and finally I know many of you take a day to day aprouch on staying sober but I need to set a longer goals of staying. IMaking through the summer, summer has always been my party time, my birthday, my husbands birthday, boats, BBQ's etc. If I can accomplish this then I can accomplish anything.
Since my first two sets of goals rely on attaining my third set I have given myself a stake in me not drinking, something to throw in the face of the demon.
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NYC Girl,
Great to hear you are holding steady there. One thought I had as I read what you shared, is that we run a fine line between using will power and surrender (acceptance) in maintaining sobriety. The right use of will, as you are suggesting, will bring you to your goals, and, hopefully, way beyond.
So does the right measure of acceptance and turning my "problems", "difficulties" and, yes, Alcoholism over to the powers that are greater than myself alone, because I do knw now that I cannot will this condition away.
Just My 2 pennies...
Great to hear you are holding steady there. One thought I had as I read what you shared, is that we run a fine line between using will power and surrender (acceptance) in maintaining sobriety. The right use of will, as you are suggesting, will bring you to your goals, and, hopefully, way beyond.
So does the right measure of acceptance and turning my "problems", "difficulties" and, yes, Alcoholism over to the powers that are greater than myself alone, because I do knw now that I cannot will this condition away.
Just My 2 pennies...
Let Go & Let God
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Wow. So many thoughtful and thought-filled points here.
Counting -- I guess I agree with CarolD that it is a personal thing, yet I can understand each point of view. Personally, I keep the date in mind and remember it in my own way month to month. For me, it is a nice way to feel good about myself -- something I don't do enough of. So once a month on that day, I have a little "me" party and congratulate myself on continuing the journey, through thick and thin.
Loaded words/Dogma -- I just had flash of recognition from this thread that what has been keeping me away from AA is the dogma. There is a way to say everything and it sometimes feels like an exclusive club. I know this isn't true and that it is just my perception, but I obviously take some issue with the loaded words and such. How to deal with it? Like Autumn, I am trying to shy away from the language and the dogma without losing the message. I'm not sure this can be done, but I'll give it a whirl! Like a wise woman reminded me last night at a meeting, you have to make it (AA, sobriety) your own. Carve your own path.
NYC Girl -- I am with you on the challenges of summer. Baseball games, my 10th high school reunion, BBQ's, entertaining, etc etc. Stay focussed!
Thanks all!
Counting -- I guess I agree with CarolD that it is a personal thing, yet I can understand each point of view. Personally, I keep the date in mind and remember it in my own way month to month. For me, it is a nice way to feel good about myself -- something I don't do enough of. So once a month on that day, I have a little "me" party and congratulate myself on continuing the journey, through thick and thin.
Loaded words/Dogma -- I just had flash of recognition from this thread that what has been keeping me away from AA is the dogma. There is a way to say everything and it sometimes feels like an exclusive club. I know this isn't true and that it is just my perception, but I obviously take some issue with the loaded words and such. How to deal with it? Like Autumn, I am trying to shy away from the language and the dogma without losing the message. I'm not sure this can be done, but I'll give it a whirl! Like a wise woman reminded me last night at a meeting, you have to make it (AA, sobriety) your own. Carve your own path.
NYC Girl -- I am with you on the challenges of summer. Baseball games, my 10th high school reunion, BBQ's, entertaining, etc etc. Stay focussed!
Thanks all!
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I think there is a misconception here or I am misunderstanding what I am reading... correct me if I am wrong please... But I hear some of you saying that you think that AA promotes Time of sobriety over Quality of sobriety... That is absolutely NOT true.... My AA group that I attend will tell you that time is important, becouse you can't have sobriety without it, of course, but if you do not have QUALITY sobriety then you may as well go ahead and drink. If I am miserable in my sobriety I am not going to stay sober. I was miserable drunk but at least I could get drunk and forget it for a while... The QUALITY of my sobriety is MUCH more important than the QUANTITY..... That is why we have the steps... they help us to find that quality of life we are looking for, that peace and serenity that makes it all worth it... Yes I count time for myself, but I consider my quality of sobriety much more important.. If I loose my quality of sobriety, my emotional sobriety I have not much left to keep me sober, time wont do it for me, time will get me drunk..... Love to all Debs
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Thanks again all - thanks debsjsu. You've probably answered my question. I understand that we all have to make our sobriety or recovery or just not-drinking our own. But it is the quality of our time sober that really counts, not the quantity. And when we come to a forum like this, it's the quality of our humanity, or otherwise, that will shine through. The amount of time doesn't and shouldn't matter - I know I have a long way to go and a lot of work to do to have the kind of sobriety I admire in others. How long that might take isn't measured in days but maybe in something like emotional joules.
So thanks debsjsu, and thanks also miss communicat for taking the time to explain it to me. When push comes to shove we all do it the way that feels healthiest for us. And when we share our experience strength and hope with others they'll be able to learn from it, or not, based upon the quality of the esh, and not the quantity of time the esh-er has!
So thanks debsjsu, and thanks also miss communicat for taking the time to explain it to me. When push comes to shove we all do it the way that feels healthiest for us. And when we share our experience strength and hope with others they'll be able to learn from it, or not, based upon the quality of the esh, and not the quantity of time the esh-er has!
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