debsjsu

There are some people who believe that AA will work for every one who will honestly works the 12 steps of the AA program and that these people will be able to get sober if and only if they are willing to work the program as they are told to. However I do believe that there are people who cannot and do not "fit" in AA.. It is not that these people are not honest, are that these people are not willing to work for sobriety.. I do not agree that it is ok to demean these people or put them down b/c AA is not working for them. How does that help them to find sobriety?? How does a condesending attitude toward another human being help them to find a sober life, or sell them on the AA program. If people in AA are insulting people who do not get sober in AA then I am ashamed of them. Shame on You... I do go to AA and I got sober in AA and that is how I stay sober today.. However I do not believe that if someone dosn't spiritually agree with AA and is unable to accept or tollerate the 12 step program that we should just write them off and they shouldn't have another alternative to sobriety. I am also going to probably make some people mad here when I say this.. Who said that AA was THE BEST way to get sober??? Who knows what the BEST way is??? AA is MY way, but what ever gets you sober and keeps you sober and gives you serenity and happiness is the BEST way for each individual... The information we share with each other should be shared with kindness and LOVE for the suffering alcoholic out there... Not with the intent to play GOD... b/c I am not GOD.. If I was I would just BLING everybody sober and we wouldn't need this board or any recovery methods at all.... Love to all Debs.. I know I talk too much

BSPGirl

You dun talk too much and I agree 100% with what you're saying there.

2dayzmuse

You are right. There are those who believe that AA is the only way to get sober. They do believe that if you don't get sober it is because you didn't put an honest effort into the program. I used to think that way, but my opinion is changing.

I formed my opinion through experience. I didn't worked the program and relapsed, twice. Worked the program and have been sober ever since, gratefully.

I was ready to quit and put the effort into quitting. I never put effort into much of anything back in my drinking days so doing so was a bit out of character for me. Any program may have worked, that is how ready I was to quit.

I have no way of knowing whether or not I could have gotten sober in an alternative program. I don't know why not? Other then they are not readily available, but that isn't to say that the program wouldn't work. There are sober people out there who aren't in AA, so I know something other then AA works. Could it be the will and desire to quit?

The problem I see is those who enter into AA and decide they don't fit the program. Okay fine. Try something else. Maybe they don't fit in Smart either. My point is that they can find fault in any program and really don't want to put forth the effort in quitting. They aren't ready to quit yet. They admit they are not ready, but yet admit that they are miserable in drinking. What do you say to these people? I know I can not make anyone else get sober, but we've got to be able to help ourselves and want it for ourselves. I had to hit bottom drag for awhile before I got it. That's just the way it had to be.

As far a recovery programs go, let's not forget the availability isn't out there for the alternative programs. Hopefully that will change in the future. AA is available so often times the program is suggested for that reason. I had no other options and at the time online recovery wasn't going to do it for me. I needed much more to get sober, but that is my experience.

debsjsu

2DAYZMUSE I totally get what you are saying and sometimes when we try to explain this the meaning gets misconstrued. Partially b/c the person we are saying it to "isn't ready" and is looking for an argument. It wouldnt matter if you were talking about AA or Smart Recovery, or Rational Recovery or any other program.. They just arnt "willing" to do what it takes to get sober yet... When I got sober, and still now AA was the only recovery program avaliable in my area, so I really didnt have any options.. It still took me 5 yrs in the program to get willing to do what it took to get sober. That didnt mean that AA wouldnt work ( however I did say that a lot " AA dosnt work for me") All it meant was that I wasnt willing to do the work... When I finally got willing (when I had finally had enough pain) I did the work ( it wasnt that bad) and I got sober. Ive been sober 10 yrs now and have never been happier in my life.. I no longer have to run from the drink.. I now run toward serenity... I have learned that when I try to explain this to others I have to be very careful of the words I choose to use. Sometimes it can sound like I am telling them that they are bad people and they will not get sober b/c they will not conform to someone elses rules and allow themselves to be controled by someone else.. This can be a very scary thing especially for newcommers and people who already have an issue with the "God thing" like I have heard. I was like that when I first got to AA. I was very stubborn and I was very deffiant when it came to any kind of Higher Power.... Sometimes It is best for me to say nothing and allow people to trudge their own journey... That is what I had to do for a while.. Have you ever heard the slogan "You can't hear until you can hear and you can't see until you can see" well that explains me completely.... Love to all Debs

doorknob

I don't think the 'God thing' is a nitpicky issue. For a nontheist it is major, and for many of us, not negotiable. I have no faults with any of the secular programs. I would go to any and all meetings that were available to me. I would concede that maybe I'm not ready, but no amount of drinking or using is going to persuade or convince me to adopt theistic beliefs. That's like telling someone who is Christian that in order to get sober they need to convert to some Eastern religion.

debsjsu

O DK I wasn't trying to imply that the "God thing" was a nitpicky issue not in the least... It is a very BIG deal... For me it was one of the biggest I had to deal with... I wont go into the particulars... Some people never are able to find a balance with that issue that allows them to feel comfortable with the AA program and therefore they must have an alternative program which probably should have been offered to them in the beginning in a perfect world it would have been. I am not even trying to imply that the christians are the ones that are "right".. In sobriety this is a completely seperate issue. Which ever program is the one that you are able to embrace that fits your belief system the best is the "right" program for each individual... I would never try to imply that the "God" issue was a little thing, it absolutely is not... I totally agree with you... Sorry if I mistated myself... Love to all Debs

doorknob

No worries Debs.

2dayzmuse

When I was a newcomer to AA I wasn't open to much anything other then getting sober. I didn't like what I heard and I didnt' like the god thing either. My poor sponsor had their hands full. Then I decided that I need to open my mind. There wasn't anything that went against my beliefs so that wasn't an issue I had to deal with. I think talking to a newcomer in general can be very difficult. Their minds usually aren prepared for some of what they hear and they take it personally. Over two years in AA and some of the conversation still makes me cringe. Yes, I got sober in AA, but I still don't like some of the way people go about things. To each their own. It is up to me to take what I need and leave the rest. Not always easy to do. I'm still learning and trying to get it right. Recovery is ever evolving.

FriendofBill

Its always amazing how the suffering addict/alcoholic feels they can have the luxury of a closed minded belief when they are in the depths of dying.

I guess its kinda like that religeon (name escapes me) that does not believe in using doctors for any medical treatment of any kind.

Like....I need a blood transfusion due to leukemia, its the only thing that will save my life, but I cannot acept one because my religious belief strictly forbids it.

What about the human belief of just trying to stay alive for today?

Don S

Having watched my Christian Scientist grandmother choose to die of cancer rather than accept medical treatment, I'll just say that they don't share "the human belief of just trying to stay alive for today". Christian Scientists have other strongly held beliefs and values that surpass mere survival.
By the way, they don't drink alcohol. Converting to Christian Science is an almost foolproof way to achieve sobriety.
You said earlier,
Are you willing to convert to Christian Science?

Shakur

No one has to go to AA. People in AA go there because it works. AA works through attraction, not promotion. If you don't want to go, no one can make you, even the courts. You can go to jail instead, or do community service.

AA saved my life, but it might not be right for everyone. Worked wonders for me though...wish I got there sooner. Would have saved me a great deal of pain. But its for those who want it.

Do you.

leviathon

I truly believe that the reason that people don't get help is that they are (a) not ready (b) not willing (c) not choosing to help themselves and choosing to drink / use... It is about choice. You choose everyday, don't blame others for your choices.

Bottom line is that you have to be ready. I know when I went to AA I was not ready. I am sober now, and I have benefitted from what I learned at AA.

I do not participate in AA formally, although I do get a lot of the same benefits of attending meetings by coming here.

In short, I am not clear as to what the debate is... why be angry at a group of people trying to help themselves. If it isn't for you, go on your way. I have never been jumped by a band of roving AA'ers, big book in hand, and force fed the twelve steps.

They don't even go as far as some religious groups (thinking JW) that invade the sanctity of your home in an effort to convince you to join. AA'ers are willing to accept you if you are interested, but they don't force feed it to you.

Take what works and leave the rest. I know I've benefitted from them, along with being here at SR, the CBRT stuff, etc. ... take what works and let the rest go.

Peace, Levi

WidespreadPanic

But I'm not Muslim. I used that because I didn't want to harrased for not being a christian(I live in KY and if you not christian you are ostricized,SP). I'm agnostic, sorry for the deception. Thank you everyone for all the insight into alternatives. I'm looking into MM I don't know why but I like it and the program. Hey if I don't drink as much or don't drink evryday thats better than right now.

c'est la vie

How are you doing today WSP? There sure are a lot of people tossing around ideas about how to achieve sobriety with or without AA. Hopefully some of this is helping you and not sending you running.

I hope you can see that there is not any ABSOLUTE method of attaining sobriety. I believe than ANY method will work if you want it badly enough to make it work. I personally am taking bits and pieces from many sources and using the info when it becomes useful.

c'est la vie

Levi you are very wise and to the point ("if it isn't for you, then go on your way"), but I think many people like to participate in "discussions" like this. The benefit is that it allows people to shed light on the positive points of several sobriety programs and may be useful to someone desperately searching for help.

The other fringe benefit is that it sheds light on some personalities on SR and helps me to "see" people better.

WSP, I certainly hope it's been beneficial to you. You can always PM someone who has posted here if you like what they have to say and you can learn more about how they got sober.

WidespreadPanic

I'm good and you? I think you are right if you want to be sober anything will work if you try. I think drinking is so ingrained into my personality and social structure I'm gonna have a hard time. I don't know when to say when and I have the ability to drink more than most. So when most folks go to bed or call it quits i'm still going and then I get to smell like booze the next day.

c'est la vie

Have you started doing the work suggested on MM? I started there too. I just can't drink moderately. I don't know why since I'm so determined to not accept being alcoholic, but I think I've beaten myself as much as I can take right now. I hope you're really putting all the effort you have into making it work.

WidespreadPanic

I've started a few times I think the first thing is to do a 30 day abs. Maybe in my case a 60 day abs to clear the mind. I've noticed in the past your thinking becomes much clearer with an extended abs

c'est la vie

Yeah, I went 30 days and my thinking became so clear that I thought I was cured. lol Then it was an on/off struggle for 6 months to try to keep it under control. I seem to be able to moderate the number of days per week but not the amount so much. Then the self loathing behaviour sets in. I know of people who go in and out of sobriety for years but I don't know how they can be sane. I feel crazy in this short period. I need longer term sobriety or I think I'll end up dead from insanity rather than alcohol overdose.

debsjsu

At the risk of getting blasted I am going to say it so here goes guys. ( when you blast me please be kind I might cry) My personal definition of insanity for myself, and yes it did come from my personal recovery program but it fits me well... Insanity-- Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results....... I did this for years... Of course I would do it in different ways... maybe changing what I drank or what time of day I drank or who I drank with or "trying" to change how much I drank ( that never worked well for me, but thats just me) as long as I DRANK I still continued to EVENTUALLY get the same results.... This is just MY story... and MY definition of insanity for me... Dosn't mean that it applys to you.... I am not slamming you so don't take it personal and get all mad at me... Your post just reminded me of my past and what I did... Thanks of reminding me of who I was and what I do not want to go back to.... Love to all Debs