Purrdy

Ang....i have seen people die from alcoholism...not a pretty site....I amwhere you are girl...after 5 years of AA...i feel like you do now....i dont have the answers for you hun i really dont.....like i said drinking is a long slow painful death...it really is...and even then you could end up with a 'wet brain' and still live out your days in a vegetative state.....


so likei said sober is better...time to re-roup, get a hold on your addiction...get treatment for it....for the addiction......

the rest is up to you...

I know you like i know myself...

inside there is a very powerful, strong, very capable, loving kind, sweet natured lady....and I would never forgive you if you did yourself in!...like me you have kids we cant go leaving them now can we...i know it seems as if they would all be better off without us its because WE hate us so much....people here dont seem to understand that!...they think you can just turn those feelings of sheer hell off...

WE have something called 'depression'.....pure and simple....this is probably not the right thread to be in...maybe mental helth..where people understand how depression can CRIPPLE YOU!


I had a sponsor once who drove me into the ground because she did not believe in depression....she ended up divorced because her hubby had severe depression...

It seems to me that people in AA do not want to accept that depression is real and that it is a sumptom of drink...well im 5 years sober and have suffered depression since my early childhood.....

so yes get help for depression, get help for the addiction then decide what you want to do from there........

Sugasnaps

There are a lot of things that are better now that I am sober.

I have been working hard on my self-esteem. I can say most days now that I really like myself and more days than ever before I can actually say I love myself. I have value! I am not perfect but I like myself just the way I am - flaws and all. Ok maybe a little fat-sucked out here n' there would be cool... but eh I am me and me is good!

I love my husband and how he is soooo proud of me for getting sober. I love the look in his eyes when he tells me "Baby, I'm proud of you." He really means it and I can really feel it. It is wonderful and damnit I earned the hell out of it so I'm going to enjoy it.

I love that I can remember things. Not just stuff I lost from blacking out - tho that was the scariest thing of my alcoholism for me... but my memory is so much better now at 5 months sober than it was back in November of 2005. Honestly for a while I thought I had some kind of brain disease cuz I was so forgetful with just basic stuff... where I put my keyes, purse, who I talked to yesterday, what I was going to put down on my grocery list and coudn't remember... so much stuff and I was so in a state of constant confusion. It was the alcohol kiddo. Even when I wasn't drunk my brain didn't work so well. I'm getting it back and I'm again so very grateful and won't take it for granted again.

I don't fear! I used to be so afraid of practically everything. Going out, social situations, speaking to a group, meeting new people, what would they think of me, would they like me? I'm such an idiot- how could they? For the most part this too is gone. Sure I have anxiety about situational things that bug me but it's nothing nothing nothing like it used to be. BETTER! Yes!

Money - lord I have saved so much money not buying all that booze. Cuz baby I thought if I bought the good stuff it was worth it. Grey Goose & $50 bottles of chardonnay. Hello? Insane? YES! Better now? HELL YES!

Life is better... in so many ways and in all facets of it.

**{hugs}} hang in there... it does get better

Suga

janeeyre

((((OVERIT))))
I don't know what to say, but I'm sorry you're feeling like this today.

This may not sound like much, but one thing that's better being sober is that I feel WAY better, physically. I'm not sitting around fretting about my liver as I used to. I don't have hangovers. If I get a headache, I know it's not from the poison booze. I don't feel so guilty anymore, either--just that overriding guilt from knowing I'm damaging my body and my family's lives by drinking so much.

You mean a lot to SO MANY people, here and where you are.

Love,
Jane

splendra

Let's see what good has happened since I quit drinking and drugging....Well my liver is very grateful that I do not pour large amounts of tequilia into my body and chase it with beer. I have a lot more clarity about everything and I do not wake up hung over hoping that I saved myself a little shot in the bottom of the bottle so that I can make it to the liquor store. I have met friends who never drink and are very happy. I make more money in less time and I have learned how not to compromise myself by staying out of situations that helped me to celebrate my shame I no longer worship at the porciline alter while celebrating my shame. My kid never had to see me be a nasty drunk cause I quit drinking before he was born. I love going to church and singing in the chior now. Exersize is less taxing now the coffee, flowers, my house, my body all smells better cause my nose is not alll clogged up from being out all night in a bar.

I think for the first couple of years after I quit drinking and drugging I kept thinking I needed xtra drama and crap to feel like something was happening but I did get over it...

2stop

I agree with purrdy............get help for the depression!! Please my friend! It is the most courageous thing you will ever do.....for YOU, and your family.........you do not need to suffer needlessly. Many people drink/drug because of anxiety and depression............I am praying for you my friend.........

laurie6781

Hey Overit.

I didn't stop drinking and magically get "happy, joyous, and free." The first couple of years in sobriety I was certainly not "happy."

However, I was not as miserable as those last years out there 'living the streets', drinking myself to death.

Sobriety for me has been an ongoing journey, and as I have continued to work on me, as honestly as I can, and change things about me, ie my reactions or actions, sobriety has gotten better and better. YES I SAID Better and Better!!!!!!!

We alkies and/or addicts want 'instant gratification.' That does not happen when the chemical of choice is removed. Why? Well in my experience and in seeing and working with others, it seems the chemical is "just a symbol" of some usually much deeper seated problems.

It is those problems the person in recovery must work on. I honestly say today that my worst day sober is still 50 times better than my best 100 days drinking.

Yes, I have bad days. Those days help me appreciate more the good days I have. The bad days that I trudge through, doing the footwork and looking for a little bit of good in that day, show me that I can live Life On Life's Terms.

The bad days are really not so bad. I awake in the morning clear headed, not feeling like I am dying from all I drank the night before. I can remember what I did the night before, I don't have to worry the cops are looking for me, or that I hit someone while driving. I know I wont have to apologize for things I said or did that I cannot remember. I know I am not waking up in jail. and on and on and on...........

So what this boils down to for me is that early in sobriety I found that the more I worked on me, the less "bad days" I had.

Now for me, working on me did mean going to meetings, talking with a sponsor,making new sober friends, learning how to act in a civilized manner again. Learning how to go to a picnic, or bowling, or a concert of a favorite artist, or going to a wedding, or just a BBQ at someone's home and not having to drink to have fun.

Learning for me meant spending lots of time in the library (there was no internet yet) researching everything I could find on alcoholism and asking LOTS of questions. When I got sober in 1981 there really was only AA and no I did not agree with everything I heard in meetings and everything I read in the Big Book, but hell it was better than nothing, and as I stayed sober, and delved further, I found what worked for me.

Yes, it has worked, very well, as in June I will celebrate 25 years sober. Last year was my 50/50 mark. I was finally sober as long as I drank.

To stay sober and clean is the only way I WANT to live my life today.

None of my happiness 'magically' happened over night. It has been a lot of hard work, as anyone with any time in recovery will tell you.

They do not have enough room on SR for me to make a list of all the wonderful things that have happened to me sober, that NEVER could or would have happened if I had continued to drink

Ang, keep asking questions, do some personal journalling, and most of all, just don't pick up the first drink today.

JMHO from my ES & H.

love and hugs,

CarolD

Overt...

Do you know about PAWS?

http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm

Yes...do see your doctor ASAP

earlybird

First of all,...there is NO such thing as an alcoholic who isnt selfish. So,...your statement on that is false. There is NO way you can say that you always put others first. You wouldnt be an alcoholic if that were true. Alcoholics by nature are selfish, and self-serving. You dont care if you die,....and dont care if it hurts others. Thats selfish. You drank even though it hurt you and others close to you,....that is selfish. You probably used money that was for other things (important things) for booze,....that is selfish. I know what you are saying though. You are talking about the "deep down" part. Deep down you know you think about others first. Deep down, you know you didnt want to put booze first over them and felt shame when you did. Deep down you know you are a good person. But, its action that counts to others. Telling them what you felt after the fact seems just that,......after the fact. Pointless.

Second,....I drank for 15 years. Socially first,...progressed into majorly alcoholic. I almost killed myself. Both unintentionally and intentionally. My heart stopped in the ER for almost a minute. They had to shock my heart back to life with the defibulator paddles in front of my Mother and little brother. I lost jobs, lost girlfriends, dwindled down from 175 lbs to around 113 lbs., lost respect, lost my car, got 3 DUI's,...lost my drivers license for 11 years. ELEVEN YEARS!!! Revoked. Got medically in debt to the tune of $85,000.oo

I got sober on March 27th 2004. I havent, by the grace of God, had a drop since. You want evidence that life IS better sober? In the two years that I have been sober, I got a great job, saved $ to pay for a lawyer to declare bankruptcy to get out from under all that debt, saved money for a lawyer at one year sober to petition the court to hear my case to get my license back, won at circuit court,....won at the Michigan Drivers Bureau hearing. I got my license back after eleven years. Saved money,....and bought a mint condition 1982 Monte Carlo fully restored. Beautiful car. Moved BACK out into my own apartment. And made good on a promise I made to my cat and myself that I would give her to a friend to watch,....beat this God damn disease, get my life back in order, get my own place again, and go and get her back. Ive done all this in two short years. And in doing that,....ive earned back MUCH of the respect and trust I lost along the way. That very very looooong way. Is not drinking better, you ask? Yes. By far. Two years ago I was a 113 lb sickly, unemployed, lonely drunk with a revoked driver license, drinking a fifth of whiskey inside a dumpster behind my apartment building. Today,.....Im an asset to the world instead of a liability. Thats how sobriety is far better than drinking. And you know why? Because I DID something with my sobriety. Sober life is exactly what you MAKE of it.

OVERIT

You know, this is exactly what I was looking for. Honest answers to an honest question.

These responses have moved me to tears. Tears in themselves are an easy thing for me, but not these kind. Grateful, loving tears. That is what I have right now.

All of you are right. You are.

I might not be instantly joyous, happy and free. But it has to beat where I am, where I was, where I want to be. I love my family. I do. And I guess I never realized that I was being selfish. Because, I felt, I was always putting others first. Always. And maybe I was, just not in the way I should have been.

I should have realized a long time ago when my teenager daughter said "just quit drinking", I'm tired of you being a drunk. Or when I ruined my son's 10th birthday party. And although, he never said a word, how I saw him hug his daddy and he just "knew".

The happiness that I see in their faces when I am happy and am laughing and smling and being "me".........

The fun we have together dying Easter eggs, catching lightening bugs, playing soccer, passing softball.......

Memories of me swimming with the dolphins with Megan

and

Jumping off of a two story boat with Nathan in Mexico, because we could and no one else had the "balls".

The way Nathan tells me he loves me and I say I love you more. And he says huh uh, and we argue every night about who loves who more.

And the way Megan comes sometimes to give me a hug and says "my mommy's home" and she is almost 16 years old.

The way my husband sticks with me, even though I have given the man more than enough reasons to have left a long time ago.

I guess these are the answers to my own question ~ why is "not drinking better"? Because of them. Because of the happiness I experience with them. I do not want to give that up......... I love them and I love life. I want to build more memories. I want to go on.

Thank you everyone ~~~~~~

xoxoxoxo

Ang

earlybird

Im not sure what you mean by 'passing softball', but it sounds painful

Anyways,...good for you. Im glad you are starting to see that there actually IS happiness all around you. Getting into a depressive funk kinda blinds us to all that. Start loving sobriety, and it will start loving you.

OVERIT

Thanks Earlybird~~~~~

And just to clarify ~ throwing a softball back and forth between two people. Not painful, unless you miss.

NoMoBeer

Wow Ang -- quite a shift from the first post to that last one! Very nice...

One thing I'd like to clarify for you -- there's a HUGE difference between "not drinking" and "living sober." For this alcoholic, AA helped me learn how to live sober, and I try to practice all the principles I've learned there every day in all my affairs...

You're right where you're supposed to be!

Ken

Peter

Perhaps herein may lie a clue to your misery.

What exactly is it about all these things you want that is going to make you happy ?

If you can free yourself from want you can free yourself from unhappiness.

For me there is no comparison.

When I was drunk I was always unhappy, always.

I am sober now going on nine years and even though I have had to endure some of the most painful incidents in my life sober I am happier to be sober.

Happiness is an overestimated quality. We are so easily fooled by the commercials we see on tv brainwashing us into believing if we dont have the car, house, credit cards,kids in college,the bow-flex body and the romance to go with it then our lives are worthless.

Strive instead for peace.

I have learned to accept that life did not come with a guarantee for happiness, that pain is a normal part of life and that all things fade away in time.There will always be people with greater or lesser than myself.

"Peace" comes with Acceptance of these things.

"Happiness" comes from Gratitude for the things I DO have like health, family , sanity and freedom.

Yeah, sure I wish I could buy that new Chevy Silverado but I no longer waste my life mourning things I do not posess.

Forgive me if I come off sounding a bit like some "transcendental guru who has found his centre in the universe", trust me I am not.....I have however had enough suffering in my life to learn how to smile and look differently at the world.....

Purrdy

this is a great post peter....

i think what we have both been going through is DEPRESSION.....now we all know that Alcohol is a depressant.....so to quit would be best...and i dont need to hear about bloody 'dry drunks' and all that stuff right now and niether does Ang.....

DEPRESSION is a killer too and needs to be taken so seriously..there is a chemical imbalance in the brain ,,this needs treatment....

its not something that you can turn on or off or cover over with gratitude...

its a very real state and soem days you are blinded and paralysed with sadness....and what makes it worse is you know you have everything to live for and everything that you could ever possibly wnat is yours but its like walking in treacle..its hideous....


if you have never suffereed from this very much in sobriety as i have then how can you possibly empathise with anyone else...

i have everything everything i could possibly wnat in life peter and i know Ang does too...alll except peace of mind...to feel safe in ones own skin....its called depression...and in my eyes is probably what will end up killing me...not the alocholism...the depression....


Ang..please get to see your GP.........ASAP...i dont care how much it costs...you cant go on like this.....you need to do this for you.......RIGHT NOW.....


im noty slamming anyone when i say this stuff...but if you have never suffered with depression how on earth can you empathise?....and it feels like a kick in the guts when people say oh youre selfish, youre a dry drunk, you need to do a gratitude list, you need meetings blahhhhhh!....I have doene all of that and tried and tried and tried...it does not go away, if you are depressed you could have utopia going on around you and you would still feel suicidal.....

Depression in sobriety is a double whammy really...ive had people in AA bring me to my knees because they just do not aknowledge it....they tell me all this stuff about the steps and it isnt working if you are depressed ...no amount of praying and meetings is going to help.......drugs do....bottom line.....prescribed medication from the doctor...


Please dont keep slamming me for my opinions this is very real and very true and very honest.....and i think people deserve to hear the truth.....it may save someones life one day....

rose petals

Bill wilson suffered from depression most of his sober life--hmmmm, hey peter i think your post was great --i understand what you mean--its like when you have been in hell, you can appreciate just waking up healthy--warm home --food on the table--little things--the media is horrible--people think they have to keep up with the jonses and it is such a shame--such a scam--once you pierce thru that and see it it really is an american tragedy--i believe you know what i mean--so many people cant see it though--its weird--take care all
Laura

Five

Peter makes the good point, something I need to remember that peace is more rewarding (and reliable) than happiness. A light bulb for me today.

findingout

Or maybe you are... that post was very close to the center of the biscuit if not dead solid perfect.

Never underestimate the value of serenity.

equus

I watched my hubby so clinically depressed that he barely left the house, making a sandwich took literally hours and just so much stress (I'm not joking - each and everything from butter to which bread was a difficult decision and risked failure). He had stopped drinking but it was the day after his 4th lapse in nearly as many months - all single incidents. Just as with the other lapses he went straight for help determined to get back on the horse - and at that time a trip through town in itself was a nightmare only equalled by dealing with a strange counsellor the other end.

We were seen together because that's what had worked for us - what I saw made me so angry. The counsellor laid into D, he had no background notes, he openly said he doesn't read them because he doesn't need to, he never bothered to ask much in the way of questions. He told D he would certainly fail, he told D he should go for inpatient care despite it being against D's GP's advice, he told D he wasn't trying and his efforts were all lies and it went on and on. Thankfully so much so that it sank in with D this wasn't a man who's opinions mattered that much!!

What made me sick about it was all the days sober D had, ok he slipped but in the position he was in no-one had thought he had a cat in hells chance in the first place. So much was wrong with what happened in that 'counselling' session that it's hard to know where to begin.

I don't see that attitude based on pulling apart another person in Peter's post but I also agree with the validity of what Purrdy is saying.

BTW - OVERIT and Purrdy... D hasn't drank at all for 5 months, has a new job he loves and it's spring time in our house!! That counsellor was wrong - on every score, each prediction, and all of his wisdom, he was the one with the problem and unlike D I somehow doubt he'll get past his own arrogance enough to fix it.

fritolay

Let's assume your analysis is correct, that non-drinkers are just as depressed and miserable as their alcoholic counterparts. All things being equal, sobriety has advantages. First, sobriety will save you money. For me, it was a $10 a day habit, which amounts to $300 a month. That's all money in your pocket. Second, sobriety will benefit your overall health and well-being, at least the physical part of it. It will add years to your (miserable) life.

My opinion is that the people you see who are depressed and miserable here are not sober long enough and/or haven't gotten over their addiction at all (even if they have stopped drinking). After a few years of sobriety, most people are no longer depressed or miserable to the extent that they were while engaging in the vicious drinking cycle. And I should point out that people drink not to fell depressed, but to feel nothing. Perhaps sobriety allows them to feel emotions they otherwise would have supressed, causing a sensory overload of sorts, which makes it appear they are more miserable than before.

Purrdy

Thankyou for that....all im trying to get across here is that I have been SOBER not just dry for 5 YEARS people 5 years i have been attendign AA...

The last 2 have been total crap...and i have felt more and more alienated and more and more patronised by their views...basically ok kenny youre depressed ...oh you meloncholy one you....prone to depression yes,,,mmmmwork harder at the steps dear...(quick pat on the head) off you go and speak to your sponsor....thres a good girl


patronising and condecending...i tried SO hard in the last 2 years...i actually think its all a bit of a cop out 'fake it to make it?' what the hell is that all about?....has my life been based on a lie?..faking it? mmmm i thought life was about being true to yourself.....'to thyne own self be true'...yes i have my 5 year chitty....


then theres all this stuff..if you STOP going to AA you will DRINK again.....what is all that about?....FEAR BASED?????....just like religion....do this OR ELSE....

I am being true to myself...i dont need people directing me anymore.....but in the same chalk it so annoys me that when you put forward a discussion based on your own experience people dont like it....Is this because they cannot empathise? or is it becasue im a black sheep?......is it because im challenging thier truth? if you feel challenged then maybe you have dobts too??

no, i have had quite a few PM's telling me how refreshing it is to hear the truth...life is crap.....it is....yes we are all very gratefull for the stuff thats good in our lives..the thing is i cannot candy coat everything and 'pretend' its ok....i want to hear how you REALLY feel, not waht you think....if you feel angry then bloody say so!



NOBODY knows that better than me as a lonely and abused child who had NOTHING!...As a child i had totally nothing.....i have everything now more than i need . And i desire morre! like most people i strive t be the best i can...AA seems to want to RIP you apart...literally tear you up into a thousand pieces....OOR you will 'drink again'


Now to any newcomer i would say in all honesty that AA worked fine and dandy for me for the first 3 years.....but as the fog lifts and you begin to reclaim your power you start to question...what is this all about?.....

Well I have questioned for 2 years now...being slammed down for not being grateful and lying down to be beaten with the AA stick.....im sorry i will not be bullied anymore....My whole childhood was based on cruelty and bullying....

I guess thats why i loved AA so much for a while. dont children always go back to thier abuseers? AA..they wont have it as bullying but when someone says if you dont do this you will drink again, well in my eyes that is a from of manipulation and any form of manipulation is about control...trying to control others by fear ...is ..to ..me..BULLYING

it works great for thousands...i think that is wonderful i really do...

the truth in my eyes is that yes life is a crock...you have ups and downs...a series of lessons and experiences to be had....i would alwyss opt for sobriety but even AA says to me that now i dont attend . im a DRY DRUNK?????

more manipulation see?


depression is what is causing the misery for me.....like i daid so may times i am more loved and cherished now thatn i ve ever been before, i have everything i need right now and more...but with all of that and im grateful to the core..some days are like you are DEAD inside...if you have never had this you cant possibly comment.......

I urge anyone who has a problem with alcohol to seek help...but AA is NOT the answer for a lot of people, but do exercise an open mind.....TRY IT.....it works for manyy ...it doesnt work for me anymore.....