Where am I?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by doorknob
Even if it's a placebo effect, if it works, who cares? But you have to believe in it for that phenomenon to occur, and I just don't. 
We all need each other.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The road of happy destiny.
Posts: 2,294
Are you sure that you don't believe in it, or could it be that you won't? I am honestly not trying to pick at you, Knob. I know how hard you have been trying, and that is truly admirable. I'm just trying to help you find something that will work for you because I know you deserve it.
Hang in there, hon'.
Hang in there, hon'.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
DK... still with us, bud?
I don't think I REALLY have to believe in any fricken thing... I just have to "let go" of my obsession, my depression, my judgments, my anger, my ...crap.
It is sort of like pitching with a bucket of balls... When I was told to I needed to "Let Go", I just kept throwing them out, and I don't think I WORRIED a whole lot who or what was on the other end catching. I just didn't think about it.
I didn't start worry about it until after I noticed something was working.... THEN I started thinking...
So, until then... just keep pitching!!
((((DK))))
I don't think I REALLY have to believe in any fricken thing... I just have to "let go" of my obsession, my depression, my judgments, my anger, my ...crap.
It is sort of like pitching with a bucket of balls... When I was told to I needed to "Let Go", I just kept throwing them out, and I don't think I WORRIED a whole lot who or what was on the other end catching. I just didn't think about it.
I didn't start worry about it until after I noticed something was working.... THEN I started thinking...
So, until then... just keep pitching!!
((((DK))))
Knucklehead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
No offense Music and Lulu, I know you mean well, but why... why must people in AA/NA be so adamant about belief in God being a prerequisite for sobriety. My belief about ultimate reality is just as valid as the next person, and I'm tired of it being looked at as a defect that needs to be changed. But of course they feel that way. That's the whole point of Chapter 3 in the BB. To convince us nonbelievers that are beliefs are invalid, illogical, and need to be changed. My frustration is not that I cannot believe in a God, but that the notion that I must is continually rammed into every orifice. The more I read on the AA forum, the more I am convinced that I do not belong there. I know many people (mostly online) that are happy and sober and who hold true to their own nonbelief. SMART, LifeRing, SOS, and AgnosticAA are full of them. Honestly, this is so freaking frustrating, I'm crying as I write this. I have an AA meeting that is literally throwing distance from my front porch. But I know what will happen if I walk over there and express that I am struggling... I know exactly what I will hear. My nonbelief will be interpreted as not wanting to or not being willing to stay sober. "Go drink some more until you are willing to believe". I think I've done enough drinking.
DK (ducking stones)
DK (ducking stones)
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
DK no reason to duck from me. Look, you say "My belief about ultimate reality is just as valid as the next person" and you are right it is.
However, something in your belief system or lack of it, is not keeping you sober. Therefore, might I suggest you look into some "sliding scale" therapy places in your vincinity and try some one on one thereapy.
Your way is not working, why, I don't know, maybe because you have not found a way yet to "dig" within yourself to find the "causes" of your continuing to drink. I know for me just putting the plug in the jug and stopping ingesting other chemicals was only the beginning. I had to look "within me" to find the "cause."
I know your are "trying" but sometimes, I feel like the word "try" is a "cop out word." Don't try, just do it, if YOU WANT SOBRIETY MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
I don't care if someone uses AA, Smart, Life Ring, SOS, RR or some other way to get sober. Its not about the "getting sober", its about LIVING SOBER. And that my friend, requires more work than anything you have ever attempted before. It requires TOTAL COMMITTMENT.
Don S and Five talk about CBT a lot. Well believe it or not, I learned that also in AA. I had to LEARN new behaviors, ERASE old tapes, to learn how to LIVE SOBER.
We alkies/addicts are "Great Starters" of things and "****** finnishers." I know I sure was........well this is the only thing I have stuck with for almost 25 years now, and it's working for me, because I take the "actions", I dig within myself (still do after all this time, as recovery, just like life, is ongoing and changing). I journal almost every day, (that's one of those "new habits" I picked up instead of "lashing out at people").
I don't know about anyone else, but I do know that MY SOBRIETY was extremely difficult those first few years, I constantly questioned AA, I constantly questioned everything I was told, (sheesh some of my bosses sure didn't like it) and I struggled, but the one thing I did was was "No Matter What I Didn't Pick Up A Drink or Drug." Even when my ass felt like it was falling off.
Now DK how about starting with TODAY? What can you do for you today? Whan can you do Not to Drink or Use Today. What can you do to enjoy Today?? NOY worry about yesterday or tomorrow, just stay in today.
We don't have the answers for you, we have our Experience, Strength, and Hope. It can be done, sobriety can be achieved. It's not a cake walk, and it sure in hell isn't easy, far from it, but it can be done, IF YOU WANT IT. The MAGIC for living Sober is within you, now you need to find a way to bring it forth.
As I have said before, please feel free to PM anytime you want. I think you know by now I do not "sugar coat". Sobriety is not easy. It is the hardest thing that many of us will ever try in our lives, however, I believe, at least for me, it is also the MOST REWARDING thing that has happened to me in my almost 61 years of living!!!!!!!!
The above is JMHO based on my E S & H.
Love and hugs,
However, something in your belief system or lack of it, is not keeping you sober. Therefore, might I suggest you look into some "sliding scale" therapy places in your vincinity and try some one on one thereapy.
Your way is not working, why, I don't know, maybe because you have not found a way yet to "dig" within yourself to find the "causes" of your continuing to drink. I know for me just putting the plug in the jug and stopping ingesting other chemicals was only the beginning. I had to look "within me" to find the "cause."
I know your are "trying" but sometimes, I feel like the word "try" is a "cop out word." Don't try, just do it, if YOU WANT SOBRIETY MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
I don't care if someone uses AA, Smart, Life Ring, SOS, RR or some other way to get sober. Its not about the "getting sober", its about LIVING SOBER. And that my friend, requires more work than anything you have ever attempted before. It requires TOTAL COMMITTMENT.
Don S and Five talk about CBT a lot. Well believe it or not, I learned that also in AA. I had to LEARN new behaviors, ERASE old tapes, to learn how to LIVE SOBER.
We alkies/addicts are "Great Starters" of things and "****** finnishers." I know I sure was........well this is the only thing I have stuck with for almost 25 years now, and it's working for me, because I take the "actions", I dig within myself (still do after all this time, as recovery, just like life, is ongoing and changing). I journal almost every day, (that's one of those "new habits" I picked up instead of "lashing out at people").
I don't know about anyone else, but I do know that MY SOBRIETY was extremely difficult those first few years, I constantly questioned AA, I constantly questioned everything I was told, (sheesh some of my bosses sure didn't like it) and I struggled, but the one thing I did was was "No Matter What I Didn't Pick Up A Drink or Drug." Even when my ass felt like it was falling off.
Now DK how about starting with TODAY? What can you do for you today? Whan can you do Not to Drink or Use Today. What can you do to enjoy Today?? NOY worry about yesterday or tomorrow, just stay in today.
We don't have the answers for you, we have our Experience, Strength, and Hope. It can be done, sobriety can be achieved. It's not a cake walk, and it sure in hell isn't easy, far from it, but it can be done, IF YOU WANT IT. The MAGIC for living Sober is within you, now you need to find a way to bring it forth.
As I have said before, please feel free to PM anytime you want. I think you know by now I do not "sugar coat". Sobriety is not easy. It is the hardest thing that many of us will ever try in our lives, however, I believe, at least for me, it is also the MOST REWARDING thing that has happened to me in my almost 61 years of living!!!!!!!!
The above is JMHO based on my E S & H.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
Here's a twist, are you all aware that apparently coffee has a protective effect on those that consume large amounts of alcohol... read that in a medical journal... they don't know why it works, but it does... so, maybe there is something to the availability of coffee at AA meetings after all!
Knucklehead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Thank you Laurie. I agree 100%. I kind of live in the boondocks, and even town (Wenatchee) is slim on low cost resources. We have a state funded mental health clinic, that used to provide sliding scale psych visits and medications. Unfortunately, even then, they were unable to provide counseling save for a BA level case manager. I used to go for my OCD, which is moderate to severe, but the state cut funding and now only medicare cards are accepted. There seems to be so little help for people working but living at or below the poverty level.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
Originally Posted by doorknob
..... I think I've done enough drinking.
That's the part I heard.
... first pitch...heeeere's the windup and tthhhhheeeeerrrreeee he gooooesss!!!....
(((DK)))
Hopefully Healing Up
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sober, Forever
Posts: 511
Lol
Hey DK, Sorry if you felt badgered, we are all just trying to help in our own way. Hey, if saying that aliens will land in your room and do unspeakable things if you took another drink, then that would be the philosophy. We're just trying to help. Hang in there, it gets easier everyday. Trust me, from hardcore experience.
Knucklehead
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by tryinagain
Hey DK, Sorry if you felt badgered, we are all just trying to help in our own way. Hey, if saying that aliens will land in your room and do unspeakable things if you took another drink, then that would be the philosophy. We're just trying to help. Hang in there, it gets easier everyday. Trust me, from hardcore experience.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by doorknob
No offense Music and Lulu, I know you mean well, but why... why must people in AA/NA be so adamant about belief in God being a prerequisite for sobriety. My belief about ultimate reality is just as valid as the next person, and I'm tired of it being looked at as a defect that needs to be changed. But of course they feel that way. That's the whole point of Chapter 3 in the BB. To convince us nonbelievers that are beliefs are invalid, illogical, and need to be changed. My frustration is not that I cannot believe in a God, but that the notion that I must is continually rammed into every orifice. The more I read on the AA forum, the more I am convinced that I do not belong there. DK (ducking stones)
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