The point of all of this
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by OnceNice
I'm just trying to figure out how one knows to be tough on one and soft on the other. Time. I don't believe that is true since I got slammed on my very first post.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 396
The question again is. Why are some treated differently than others? Michael, why are you not on the other threads where people relapsed and tough loving them? That is the question here. Is it because you know the person you tough loved more. Is that it. I can take tough love from anyone who knows me (well sometimes - have to be honest) a little easier than from one who don't know me well
This was not just about two people who drank. I think we all relapsed at one time or another. Its about how to be treated.
Frankly, I'm tryng to my butt into an AA meeting but I don't want a sponsor. I know its not going to work without one and I really don't know what is appropriate anymore.
Cause I'll tell ya. If I walk up and ask someone to be my sponsor and she immediately snaps at me or within the first month starts telling me off. I'm gonna run like heck.
I'm using this forum to get the nerve for some real face to face help.
This was not just about two people who drank. I think we all relapsed at one time or another. Its about how to be treated.
Frankly, I'm tryng to my butt into an AA meeting but I don't want a sponsor. I know its not going to work without one and I really don't know what is appropriate anymore.
Cause I'll tell ya. If I walk up and ask someone to be my sponsor and she immediately snaps at me or within the first month starts telling me off. I'm gonna run like heck.
I'm using this forum to get the nerve for some real face to face help.
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
[QUOTE=OnceNice]The question again is. Why are some treated differently than others?
I think there are just too many variables to accurately answer that one.
It depends.........(fill in the blanks)
I think there are just too many variables to accurately answer that one.
It depends.........(fill in the blanks)
Michael
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London England
Posts: 291
Oncenice,
I respond to posts that interest me. If I think my opinion will do any good I will give it. If I know nothing about a subject (such as drug use, prescription drugs, clinical withdrawal etc) then I will usually read a couple of posts and feel out of my depth and move on.
I feel that I have gotten to know a few of the character here and have an internal pen portrait of them. These folk interest me as they seem to form the backbone of the community. To save my blushes I will refrain from naming them as they will probably answer "Michael who?"
I guess I respond to posts because I can, that is the whole point of this site.
Michael
I respond to posts that interest me. If I think my opinion will do any good I will give it. If I know nothing about a subject (such as drug use, prescription drugs, clinical withdrawal etc) then I will usually read a couple of posts and feel out of my depth and move on.
I feel that I have gotten to know a few of the character here and have an internal pen portrait of them. These folk interest me as they seem to form the backbone of the community. To save my blushes I will refrain from naming them as they will probably answer "Michael who?"
I guess I respond to posts because I can, that is the whole point of this site.
Michael
alcohol-kicked-my butt
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: oregon
Posts: 191
once nice--
there are no easy answers--i no longer do everything aa suggests and i personally am happier and freer for it but i know there are some who like that constant need to feel they have to be bettering themselves--i went thru three yrs of that program confusing the hell out of me and there are so many hypocrosies it is very absurd--but i go to a few meetings a week so i remember why i dont drink--see sober friends--dont get me wrong some of the best advice i got was from aa--stop fighting everything--accept things i cant change--live and let live --some others--god also has opened my eyes to many wonderful insights--now i ve carved my own way--i know what works for me today--might be different tomorrow--im aware of that--you can go to a meeting just to go--think of it as some entertainment--if nothing else--i dont get sponsors anymore--i wont even start on my experience with that--when i need to unload a heavy heart it is to my hubbie or go to a therapist or something--heck maybe a priest--but never anyone ,FOR ME, at aa--take care
Laura
there are no easy answers--i no longer do everything aa suggests and i personally am happier and freer for it but i know there are some who like that constant need to feel they have to be bettering themselves--i went thru three yrs of that program confusing the hell out of me and there are so many hypocrosies it is very absurd--but i go to a few meetings a week so i remember why i dont drink--see sober friends--dont get me wrong some of the best advice i got was from aa--stop fighting everything--accept things i cant change--live and let live --some others--god also has opened my eyes to many wonderful insights--now i ve carved my own way--i know what works for me today--might be different tomorrow--im aware of that--you can go to a meeting just to go--think of it as some entertainment--if nothing else--i dont get sponsors anymore--i wont even start on my experience with that--when i need to unload a heavy heart it is to my hubbie or go to a therapist or something--heck maybe a priest--but never anyone ,FOR ME, at aa--take care
Laura
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 396
Peter I guess thats true. "It depends. . . is probably the best answer.
I know some of you have been together for along time and can express your feelings in a more opened and honest way.
I hope you all accepted this thread. It was truly being opened and honest myself and I really wanted to know. I fear people a lot because I'm not good with confrontation. This was me being assertive. I hope it was okay.
I know some of you have been together for along time and can express your feelings in a more opened and honest way.
I hope you all accepted this thread. It was truly being opened and honest myself and I really wanted to know. I fear people a lot because I'm not good with confrontation. This was me being assertive. I hope it was okay.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 396
Michael thank you also for your response. Honestly wasn't what I expected. I thought you were gonna slam me. (ha just kidding) Anyway. I know everyone is here helping each other.
Thank you all. It really did help me.
Thank you all. It really did help me.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by michaelj
Oncenice,
I respond to posts that interest me. If I think my opinion will do any good I will give it. If I know nothing about a subject (such as drug use, prescription drugs, clinical withdrawal etc) then I will usually read a couple of posts and feel out of my depth and move on.
I feel that I have gotten to know a few of the character here and have an internal pen portrait of them. These folk interest me as they seem to form the backbone of the community. To save my blushes I will refrain from naming them as they will probably answer "Michael who?"
I guess I respond to posts because I can, that is the whole point of this site.
Michael
I respond to posts that interest me. If I think my opinion will do any good I will give it. If I know nothing about a subject (such as drug use, prescription drugs, clinical withdrawal etc) then I will usually read a couple of posts and feel out of my depth and move on.
I feel that I have gotten to know a few of the character here and have an internal pen portrait of them. These folk interest me as they seem to form the backbone of the community. To save my blushes I will refrain from naming them as they will probably answer "Michael who?"
I guess I respond to posts because I can, that is the whole point of this site.
Michael
DK
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Well...I think it is amatter of perception.
If you see the positive it's there.
Sometimes I reply with specific info
sometimes with another facet of my experience.
sometimes I do not reply
sometimes I leave a member to others as my earlier replies have not helped.
The wonder of on line recovery sites is the diversity of our members.
If you see the positive it's there.
Sometimes I reply with specific info
sometimes with another facet of my experience.
sometimes I do not reply
sometimes I leave a member to others as my earlier replies have not helped.
The wonder of on line recovery sites is the diversity of our members.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by OnceNice
I hope you all accepted this thread. It was truly being opened and honest myself and I really wanted to know. I fear people a lot because I'm not good with confrontation. This was me being assertive. I hope it was okay.
DK
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 396
Carol, that is the hard part in the beginning is seeing the positive. YOu had to all have been kinda like me in the beginning. I mean. honestly I'm pretty negative at least now. Trying to quit drinking and thinking about things is a byotch. But that is one of my points. Its hard to be positive in the beginning of the decision to quit. So I guess negative remarks might bring one to a more negative level.
I think substance abuse is the hardest thing in the world. Messes with your mind and body so bad. Sometimes I think life would be easier if I had something else.
Its hard to do and I admire all who did it.
I can't imagine not drinking, eating right, thinking positive all at one time. I thought I'd take one thing at a time. Figure the first is to cut out the booze. They say the rest will follow.
I think substance abuse is the hardest thing in the world. Messes with your mind and body so bad. Sometimes I think life would be easier if I had something else.
Its hard to do and I admire all who did it.
I can't imagine not drinking, eating right, thinking positive all at one time. I thought I'd take one thing at a time. Figure the first is to cut out the booze. They say the rest will follow.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Melbourne victoria
Posts: 1,975
Hey ! Good Morning Miss Rose , where you been ? great to see you !
You know, you dont have to get a Sponser straight away, it is a personal thing. Try several meetings, and find one you are comfy with first !
I was sooo like you when I first went to AA. I just wanted to be invisible, sit in the back, and leave very quickly ! LOL Unfortunately I couldn't , I went with a member who picked me up, cos I didnt have a licence , and she stayed to talk to EVERYONE and I felt sooooooooo embarrassed just being there ! I was so uncomfortable in my own skin back then, I could only function at work, or at home drinking.
Th next meeting , i went by myself , on the bus, and a fella who had been at my first meeting, shook my hand, and said " hello leigh", I was so paranoid and shy, my first thought was, what have they been saying about me ( Ha Ha bet it was plenty), and WHY did he know my name ? DUH! cos it IS my name stupid ! LOL
The first is the hardest Rose, get yaself in the doors and you will be fine my friend .
How is Clementine? If you go to a thread called " did this work" in " cafe" you will see a pic of me ! and my dog, mr Spot !
LOVE and HUGX
Lee
great to see you !You know, you dont have to get a Sponser straight away, it is a personal thing. Try several meetings, and find one you are comfy with first !
I was sooo like you when I first went to AA. I just wanted to be invisible, sit in the back, and leave very quickly ! LOL Unfortunately I couldn't , I went with a member who picked me up, cos I didnt have a licence , and she stayed to talk to EVERYONE and I felt sooooooooo embarrassed just being there ! I was so uncomfortable in my own skin back then, I could only function at work, or at home drinking.
Th next meeting , i went by myself , on the bus, and a fella who had been at my first meeting, shook my hand, and said " hello leigh", I was so paranoid and shy, my first thought was, what have they been saying about me ( Ha Ha bet it was plenty), and WHY did he know my name ? DUH! cos it IS my name stupid ! LOL
The first is the hardest Rose, get yaself in the doors and you will be fine my friend .
How is Clementine? If you go to a thread called " did this work" in " cafe" you will see a pic of me ! and my dog, mr Spot !
LOVE and HUGX
Lee
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Yes Rose...Depression is why I started AA recovery.
Everything in my perception was dark and empty
My brain was saturated...
So I took action. That is the key IMO
All I can share with you I already have.
Glad to see your cancer scare had a good outcome. Hugs
Everything in my perception was dark and empty
My brain was saturated...
So I took action. That is the key IMO
All I can share with you I already have.
Glad to see your cancer scare had a good outcome. Hugs
'55 Classic
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Waco, TX
Posts: 637
OnceNice,
We all hope that the contributions given in the threads will be helpful to someone reading what we write. Can it all be used? Of course not. We all have different paths we end up following. What I tell people is intended to be in a manner of helpfulness. Since it is based on my own experience there will be some cases where it will only be helpful for those alcoholics with similar experiences and beliefs. It’s okay. We learn to take what we can use and leave the rest. That being said, let me say something about your original thought on this thread.
Sometimes the greatest love we can show others will be things that end up seeming harsh and sometimes cruel, especially to the individual who receives it. Sometimes these things can seem downright mean. Let me give you an example. Say there is a child that is playing in their yard and they have been told many times to stay close to the house and never run into the street for any reason. A couple of times they have been found very close to the curb (or upon occasion, on the curb with cars passing by) and once again they are warned that they will not be allowed to play in the front yard if they do it again and if they get in the street they will get a spanking to boot. The child and several neighborhood children are playing ball one evening and the ball goes out into the street. Even though the companions yell for them to stop the child dart from between two parked vehicles and they almost get hit by a car driving down the street. The parent hears the commotion and grabs the child by the arm and paddles their little fanny all the way into the house and the child doesn’t get to play in the front yard for quite some time. What I’m getting at is that I thought my Dad was being very mean at the time, but my embarrassment and anger wasn’t anything compared to the fear that he felt the moment when he heard those squealing car brakes locking up and imagined my broken body lying in that street…
I wish that we each had had someone to grab us by the arm, paddle our fannies and take us back to safety. But that’s not reality. What we have instead is a bunch of folks here that know that there are those of us who will get “run over” by this illness and could die. Do we stand by and say nothing so as to not offend? No, we continue to sound the warning because we haven’t forgotten what can happen and maybe, just maybe we can lead them back to safety. (In such a case, popularity is NOT part of my job description.) Remember that for the most part those of us here do what we do because we care…
We all hope that the contributions given in the threads will be helpful to someone reading what we write. Can it all be used? Of course not. We all have different paths we end up following. What I tell people is intended to be in a manner of helpfulness. Since it is based on my own experience there will be some cases where it will only be helpful for those alcoholics with similar experiences and beliefs. It’s okay. We learn to take what we can use and leave the rest. That being said, let me say something about your original thought on this thread.
Sometimes the greatest love we can show others will be things that end up seeming harsh and sometimes cruel, especially to the individual who receives it. Sometimes these things can seem downright mean. Let me give you an example. Say there is a child that is playing in their yard and they have been told many times to stay close to the house and never run into the street for any reason. A couple of times they have been found very close to the curb (or upon occasion, on the curb with cars passing by) and once again they are warned that they will not be allowed to play in the front yard if they do it again and if they get in the street they will get a spanking to boot. The child and several neighborhood children are playing ball one evening and the ball goes out into the street. Even though the companions yell for them to stop the child dart from between two parked vehicles and they almost get hit by a car driving down the street. The parent hears the commotion and grabs the child by the arm and paddles their little fanny all the way into the house and the child doesn’t get to play in the front yard for quite some time. What I’m getting at is that I thought my Dad was being very mean at the time, but my embarrassment and anger wasn’t anything compared to the fear that he felt the moment when he heard those squealing car brakes locking up and imagined my broken body lying in that street…
I wish that we each had had someone to grab us by the arm, paddle our fannies and take us back to safety. But that’s not reality. What we have instead is a bunch of folks here that know that there are those of us who will get “run over” by this illness and could die. Do we stand by and say nothing so as to not offend? No, we continue to sound the warning because we haven’t forgotten what can happen and maybe, just maybe we can lead them back to safety. (In such a case, popularity is NOT part of my job description.) Remember that for the most part those of us here do what we do because we care…
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 396
Sheryl thank you for your post. I do understand the concept of tough love. Don't get me wrong. I don't know. Sometimes its seems like kicking the guy when he's already down.
Your example of a child running into the street is not a disease. It is a learning technique. You are teaching the child a lesson.
Now lets say a young man in a wheel chair was wounded in Vietnam. He returns home. His mind is screwed up, his body is screwed up. Do you give him a month or two before you tell him to get over it. And find someithing else. Are do we feel him or her out. See what it is that they are truly looking for, truly scared of. That's kinda what I"m talking about. There are strong people and weak people. I'm not strong at all. That's why I'm so terrified of this disease. I know that those of you who have made it are strong. That's why this scares me so. If you have read my other posts, I just drink alone in my house and stay out of everyones way. Most people don't even know I exists. I don't know. The weak ones are the ones who die right?
Maybe you can tell me. Do I need tough love. Aren't we already tough on ourselves.
Did you all analyze things like this in your early stages of trying to quit.
Am I making any sense at all.
Your example of a child running into the street is not a disease. It is a learning technique. You are teaching the child a lesson.
Now lets say a young man in a wheel chair was wounded in Vietnam. He returns home. His mind is screwed up, his body is screwed up. Do you give him a month or two before you tell him to get over it. And find someithing else. Are do we feel him or her out. See what it is that they are truly looking for, truly scared of. That's kinda what I"m talking about. There are strong people and weak people. I'm not strong at all. That's why I'm so terrified of this disease. I know that those of you who have made it are strong. That's why this scares me so. If you have read my other posts, I just drink alone in my house and stay out of everyones way. Most people don't even know I exists. I don't know. The weak ones are the ones who die right?
Maybe you can tell me. Do I need tough love. Aren't we already tough on ourselves.
Did you all analyze things like this in your early stages of trying to quit.
Am I making any sense at all.
L'il fighter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 297
OnceNice -
IMO I think Michaelj's explanation was the best way to describe how tough love can be used in a constructive way. There comes a time when all other methods are not getting through to someone, and often they need a wake-up call to get their attention and hopefully provoke them to ask themselves the tough questions. It's like a slap in the face or a bucket of cold water - it snaps you back to reality. Nah, I wouldn't come down on someone who's just returned from war in a wheelchair. But, if 5 years down the road he's still wallowing in self-pity, then that's a different story.
But tough love is definitely not the same as being a jerk. Although I'm new to SR, I've spent a lot of times on other message boards, and after a while you learn to recognize the trolls right off the bat. In other words, stick around a while and get to know people. You'll learn who's genuinely interested in your recovery and those who are here to stroke their own inadequate egos. It's easy to come on the internet and say mean things to people that they've never met. But I don't think that's the case with 99.9% of the people here.
Congrats on your decision to get sober!
IMO I think Michaelj's explanation was the best way to describe how tough love can be used in a constructive way. There comes a time when all other methods are not getting through to someone, and often they need a wake-up call to get their attention and hopefully provoke them to ask themselves the tough questions. It's like a slap in the face or a bucket of cold water - it snaps you back to reality. Nah, I wouldn't come down on someone who's just returned from war in a wheelchair. But, if 5 years down the road he's still wallowing in self-pity, then that's a different story.
But tough love is definitely not the same as being a jerk. Although I'm new to SR, I've spent a lot of times on other message boards, and after a while you learn to recognize the trolls right off the bat. In other words, stick around a while and get to know people. You'll learn who's genuinely interested in your recovery and those who are here to stroke their own inadequate egos. It's easy to come on the internet and say mean things to people that they've never met. But I don't think that's the case with 99.9% of the people here.
Congrats on your decision to get sober!
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
About the "sponsor" thing at meetings.
If you're not comfortable with it right now, don't worry about it.
You can still go to meetings and pick up a lot of useful information without getting a sponsor.
If you're not comfortable with it right now, don't worry about it.
You can still go to meetings and pick up a lot of useful information without getting a sponsor.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 396
Just wanted to thank everyone for their responses. You know for the first time I felt that people were actually talking to me on here. It felt nice. I didn't even drink last night. I don't even know why. But I didn't. (i drink every night)
I guess its hard to know how to treat others. Especially a drunk like myself. But I'm gonna have to figure something out for me and not for others. Someone on SR on another thread mentioned a book. Something about What you think of me is none of my business. Does anyone know if that's what its called. I'd like to get that book.
Thanks again everyone.
I guess its hard to know how to treat others. Especially a drunk like myself. But I'm gonna have to figure something out for me and not for others. Someone on SR on another thread mentioned a book. Something about What you think of me is none of my business. Does anyone know if that's what its called. I'd like to get that book.
Thanks again everyone.
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