Would like the A's view on enabling..pwease! ( a tad long)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
Would like the A's view on enabling..pwease! ( a tad long)
So as not to go over old ground...my post on a specific form of enabling and what I've dealt with in the past is here -http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...sed-73086.html (post #9)
Basically, my BF drinks alot (morning till night) and hardly eats. I used to make him food in the hope that he'd eat, but alot of the time he would ask me to because he was either too drunk or couldn't be bothered getting up off his arse to make something himself.
He's gone to stay with him mum for a while because I needed a break. He phoned me the night before last and during our conversation he mentioned that he had told his mum about my "not enabling" techniques, i.e. I will no longer buy alcohol for him, drink with him or cook for him because he is too drunk/lazy to do it himself.
He doesn't agree with any of it, especially the cooking thing, he said as he's "not able" to feed himself I should "help" him so that he doesn't get ill.
It's my belief from reading here and other places that, if I don't allow him to suffer the consequences of his own actions then he will never find the want or the will to get better.
Anyway, he lived with his mum up until he moved in with me (over two years ago), he's 34 yrs old, she still did all his washing for him, bought him alcohol, lent him money, would get up at 2am to cook for him when he asked her to...
In my view, she's doing him no favours. She's a lovely, lovely woman and I love her to bits but she has no concept or understanding of enabling and the harm it does.
So now he goes and tells her about me refusing to cook for him etc..and she agrees with him, I should be helping him because he won't help himself and if I don't he'll get ill.
Apparently they both don't see it as enabling, I'm helping him, making sure he has some food in his system so that he won't feel even worse the next day and drink more.
I think he was pleased she agreed with him, and started on about how I shouldn't read too much into what people say here and if I asked an alcoholic he's sure they would disagree with the friends and family board (where I normally reside, lol)
Am at aloss, and I was quite angry. I thought I was getting through to him about it, I'd copied some posts on enabling into Word docs for him to read.
And now his mum, who has always babied and enabled him agrees with his way of thinking.
So I'm asking for the A's view, he said I won't get anyone agreeing with me...I'm hoping someone will understand what I'm trying to achieve.
Thanks
Basically, my BF drinks alot (morning till night) and hardly eats. I used to make him food in the hope that he'd eat, but alot of the time he would ask me to because he was either too drunk or couldn't be bothered getting up off his arse to make something himself.
He's gone to stay with him mum for a while because I needed a break. He phoned me the night before last and during our conversation he mentioned that he had told his mum about my "not enabling" techniques, i.e. I will no longer buy alcohol for him, drink with him or cook for him because he is too drunk/lazy to do it himself.
He doesn't agree with any of it, especially the cooking thing, he said as he's "not able" to feed himself I should "help" him so that he doesn't get ill.
It's my belief from reading here and other places that, if I don't allow him to suffer the consequences of his own actions then he will never find the want or the will to get better.
Anyway, he lived with his mum up until he moved in with me (over two years ago), he's 34 yrs old, she still did all his washing for him, bought him alcohol, lent him money, would get up at 2am to cook for him when he asked her to...
In my view, she's doing him no favours. She's a lovely, lovely woman and I love her to bits but she has no concept or understanding of enabling and the harm it does.
So now he goes and tells her about me refusing to cook for him etc..and she agrees with him, I should be helping him because he won't help himself and if I don't he'll get ill.
Apparently they both don't see it as enabling, I'm helping him, making sure he has some food in his system so that he won't feel even worse the next day and drink more.
I think he was pleased she agreed with him, and started on about how I shouldn't read too much into what people say here and if I asked an alcoholic he's sure they would disagree with the friends and family board (where I normally reside, lol)
Am at aloss, and I was quite angry. I thought I was getting through to him about it, I'd copied some posts on enabling into Word docs for him to read.
And now his mum, who has always babied and enabled him agrees with his way of thinking.
So I'm asking for the A's view, he said I won't get anyone agreeing with me...I'm hoping someone will understand what I'm trying to achieve.
Thanks
I would be leaving him at his Mom'sMichael
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London England
Posts: 291
He is manipulating both you and his mum. He is getting away with it at his mum's and hopes to bring pressure on you to conform to his preferred type of behaviour. When I was drinking my wife always refused to facilitate my drinking and I longed and craved for a partner who would make my drinking career as easy and as painless as possible. As an alcoholic I wanted just one thing, drink, and anyone who came between me and my drink was not going to last long in my affections no matter who they were and how important they were to me in "normal" life.
Alcohol is the only thing that truly matters to an alcoholic and your BF is doing what he is doing to ensure that access to drink is as uninterrupted as possible. You are being used, your BF's mother is being used. The difference between you and your BF's mother is that you can choose to do something about it. She is his mother and the ties between mother and child are unfathomable.
Get out of this relationship before you damage yourself further, you can not beat his addiction to alcohol.
Michael
Alcohol is the only thing that truly matters to an alcoholic and your BF is doing what he is doing to ensure that access to drink is as uninterrupted as possible. You are being used, your BF's mother is being used. The difference between you and your BF's mother is that you can choose to do something about it. She is his mother and the ties between mother and child are unfathomable.
Get out of this relationship before you damage yourself further, you can not beat his addiction to alcohol.
Michael
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: RAPID CITY SD
Posts: 20
Sounds Like You Are Doing A Fine Job Of Letting Him Suffer His Own Consequences. Keep Doing What You Are Doing. Dont Let What His Mom Says Affect You In Any Way. Remember She Is Biased And Sick, Sick For Enabling Him. Of Course He Will Do/say/try Anything To Keep People On His "side"- In Fact, Enabling Him. He Is Sick Too.
He Is Only 34- If You Stay With Him And He Is Drinking And Pulling This Stuff, Life Will Only Get Tougher For You.
As A Raging Alcoholic, I Can Tell You I Would Lie, Cheat, Steal, Cry, Etc Etc Etc- Anything To Preserve My Drinking "career". My Family Let Me Hit Bottom, And I Thank Them For That, Because Now I Am Sober
Good Luck!!!!!
Lily
He Is Only 34- If You Stay With Him And He Is Drinking And Pulling This Stuff, Life Will Only Get Tougher For You.
As A Raging Alcoholic, I Can Tell You I Would Lie, Cheat, Steal, Cry, Etc Etc Etc- Anything To Preserve My Drinking "career". My Family Let Me Hit Bottom, And I Thank Them For That, Because Now I Am Sober
Good Luck!!!!!
Lily
This too shall pass.....
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 9
Sounds like you are about at your wits end. I as an alcoholic can tell you that my disease affected many peoples lives not just my own and I will have to make amends where possible for that someday! But I also have to remember that those in my past might be ill now because of or not only because of my disease and how it affected them my advice to you is to get a big book. Some would say but I am not an alcoholic let me quote this from the big book page 18 2nd paragraph.....
"We hope this volume will inform and comfort those who are, or who may be affected. There are many."
You are not alone. The disease has affected numerous people wives husbands parents friends children of alcoholics. Anyone who comes into contact with an alcoholic is affected by this disease in one way or another. The lady who stands in front of me at a grocery store while I have been drinking and listens to me make an arse out of myself. My disease impacted her day. It affects those we love and those we dont even know. The casualties of this disease are overwhelming in numbers. May I also suggest if you havent tried it yet going to alanon. You deserve recovery from the disease too. You may have not been the alcoholic in this case but the disease also impacted you. The meetings will help you through the hard times to come in your effort to not enable his disease to affect your life any further.
Prayer also helps keep you strong!
Good Luck and God Bless you I will keep you in my prayers.
"We hope this volume will inform and comfort those who are, or who may be affected. There are many."
You are not alone. The disease has affected numerous people wives husbands parents friends children of alcoholics. Anyone who comes into contact with an alcoholic is affected by this disease in one way or another. The lady who stands in front of me at a grocery store while I have been drinking and listens to me make an arse out of myself. My disease impacted her day. It affects those we love and those we dont even know. The casualties of this disease are overwhelming in numbers. May I also suggest if you havent tried it yet going to alanon. You deserve recovery from the disease too. You may have not been the alcoholic in this case but the disease also impacted you. The meetings will help you through the hard times to come in your effort to not enable his disease to affect your life any further.
Prayer also helps keep you strong!
Good Luck and God Bless you I will keep you in my prayers.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Melbourne victoria
Posts: 1,975
Hi Missus 
Lee Recovering Alkie here
I agree with carol, leave him at his Mums, and move on! You will never win til he wants recovery for himself!
If he is "able" to get booze, he is able to get food, he is manipulating you , and playing on your feelings. When we are active, we blame EVERYONE else LOL
Get your hair done , go to the movies, and take your phone off the hook!
Good Luck
HUGX
Lee
Lee Recovering Alkie here
I agree with carol, leave him at his Mums, and move on! You will never win til he wants recovery for himself!
If he is "able" to get booze, he is able to get food, he is manipulating you , and playing on your feelings. When we are active, we blame EVERYONE else LOL
Get your hair done , go to the movies, and take your phone off the hook!
Good Luck
HUGX
Lee
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
Thanks, least I know I'm doing the right thing...I'm not ready to leave him yet, but I will not enable him anymore or listen to the BS and manipulation. Just needed to hear it from those that have/are drank/drinking 
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by TheMissus
...I'm not ready to leave him yet...
Originally Posted by TheMissus
...he said I won't get anyone agreeing with me...
Don S
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Highlands, TX
Posts: 1,192
Personally I think this is the biggest load of crap he's trying to get you to swallow that I've heard in a long time. Good for you for not falling for it. WTF???? You're supposed to feed his lazy, spoiled *ss so that he doesn't suffer as many consequences of his drinking? BS!! If his mom does this for him, so be it but she isn't doing him any favors as you already know. Sounds to me like he's had all the enabling he can stand. Stand your ground, set your boundaries and take care of you.
Hugs,
Kellye
Hugs,
Kellye
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Highlands, TX
Posts: 1,192
I just had another thought. Since he is used to being waited on hand and foot I suppose his next request will involve him laying down while you (or mom) pour the alcohol down his throat so he doesn't stumble and bump into walls and risk getting hurt.
I'm sorry, I'm usually not like this but this just really irked me!
I'm sorry, I'm usually not like this but this just really irked me!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
lol, np, rant away! I'm all for helping people, doing things to make them happy, everyone deserves to be treated sometimes, but not when it's almost a requirement, when they think it's your "duty"...think thats what pissed me off the most.
And he's never gonna like me not enabling him is he? Like michealj said, he likes his comfort zone too much, I guess I'm just dissapointed because he told me he understands (not agrees but understands) and he wouldn't ask anymore, and it was all bs, and i really love his mum and don't want her thinking badly of me, but I don't care, I love him more! Maybe he doesn't realise I'm trying to help him and me, but I refuse to enable him, no matter what he or his mum think!
And he's never gonna like me not enabling him is he? Like michealj said, he likes his comfort zone too much, I guess I'm just dissapointed because he told me he understands (not agrees but understands) and he wouldn't ask anymore, and it was all bs, and i really love his mum and don't want her thinking badly of me, but I don't care, I love him more! Maybe he doesn't realise I'm trying to help him and me, but I refuse to enable him, no matter what he or his mum think!
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Hi there Missus,
Here's the deal. I have a friend who I'm talking to at present, who's 36 year old son is still at home. My friend wants him out. The wife is on the fence about it. I know the son's history because I was his AA sponsor some 10 years ago. I must have said something that hurt his feelings
because he left AA and kept on drinking, eventually getting into drugs as well. He's bounced back and forth from his home here to Florida with his sister. He doesn't drive, doesn't have a job. He's not drinking or drugging at present(he says)and does nothing but sit/lay around the house playing dungeons and dragons on the computer. I told my friend if he was my son, he'd been out yesterday. The decision is still up in the air. The son is telling his parents that if they put him out he'll drink and drug again. He says they owe it to him to take care of him. I put my youngest son out 18 years ago. He's been sober and clean for 17 years. Some make it and some don't but my wife and I had to decide whether we were helping or hurting our son by allowing him to live with us. The answer was obvious. Today, our relationship with him is great and he realizes that if we hadn't done what we did, he'd probably be dead.
The thing about enabling is this. Enablers, on the surface seem like nice people who wouldn't hurt a fly, or want to. I'm sure many of them are nice people but they're basically SELFISH! Rather than make the alcoholic responsible for his actions, they resentfully help the bum out so as not to have to deal with his rath, and the possibility that someone might think they're bad people. The enabler is selfish because all the time they're loving someone to death, they're silently patting themselves on the back for helping when in fact, they're doing the one thing that's keeping the alcoholic in the disease. Of course, there are no guarantees that kicking the bum out will change him, but enablers would rather be martyrs than do what down deep they know they should do and most often feel like doing. Ask yourself this question. If you weren't emotionally attached to this guy, in other words, if he were anyone else but who he is to you, would you be doing what you're doing? Would you even give him a second thought? Would you have him living with you if you didn't love him? If the answer is NO, you're still enabling him. How?? Because he still knows you're there when he gets tired of his mum or she kicks him out. The kicker is, he's not to blame. He's just taking advantage of a good deal. His mum has probably always done for him since the day he was born. I'll guarantee you that if he's out on his own, he'll either make it or he won't. This guy doesn't care about himself let alone you or his mum. The addiction has him being selfish and self-centered. All he cares about is his booze.
Here's the deal. I have a friend who I'm talking to at present, who's 36 year old son is still at home. My friend wants him out. The wife is on the fence about it. I know the son's history because I was his AA sponsor some 10 years ago. I must have said something that hurt his feelings
because he left AA and kept on drinking, eventually getting into drugs as well. He's bounced back and forth from his home here to Florida with his sister. He doesn't drive, doesn't have a job. He's not drinking or drugging at present(he says)and does nothing but sit/lay around the house playing dungeons and dragons on the computer. I told my friend if he was my son, he'd been out yesterday. The decision is still up in the air. The son is telling his parents that if they put him out he'll drink and drug again. He says they owe it to him to take care of him. I put my youngest son out 18 years ago. He's been sober and clean for 17 years. Some make it and some don't but my wife and I had to decide whether we were helping or hurting our son by allowing him to live with us. The answer was obvious. Today, our relationship with him is great and he realizes that if we hadn't done what we did, he'd probably be dead.The thing about enabling is this. Enablers, on the surface seem like nice people who wouldn't hurt a fly, or want to. I'm sure many of them are nice people but they're basically SELFISH! Rather than make the alcoholic responsible for his actions, they resentfully help the bum out so as not to have to deal with his rath, and the possibility that someone might think they're bad people. The enabler is selfish because all the time they're loving someone to death, they're silently patting themselves on the back for helping when in fact, they're doing the one thing that's keeping the alcoholic in the disease. Of course, there are no guarantees that kicking the bum out will change him, but enablers would rather be martyrs than do what down deep they know they should do and most often feel like doing. Ask yourself this question. If you weren't emotionally attached to this guy, in other words, if he were anyone else but who he is to you, would you be doing what you're doing? Would you even give him a second thought? Would you have him living with you if you didn't love him? If the answer is NO, you're still enabling him. How?? Because he still knows you're there when he gets tired of his mum or she kicks him out. The kicker is, he's not to blame. He's just taking advantage of a good deal. His mum has probably always done for him since the day he was born. I'll guarantee you that if he's out on his own, he'll either make it or he won't. This guy doesn't care about himself let alone you or his mum. The addiction has him being selfish and self-centered. All he cares about is his booze.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
He's definately got it easier at his mums, I try my damn hardest not to enable him, however, some of it is unavoidable, such as doing his share of the houseworks, taking on the responsibility of the kids, pets, shopping, bills etc..
He still wants to come back here though...even though his mum looks after him "properly". I know if he ever gets better he'll see what I was trying to do and that it was the right thing to do, but right now I guess thats hard for him to understand.
He still wants to come back here though...even though his mum looks after him "properly". I know if he ever gets better he'll see what I was trying to do and that it was the right thing to do, but right now I guess thats hard for him to understand.
Drug Addiction Has No Mercy
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukie Oregon
Posts: 875
Have you read 'Getting them sober' by Toby Rice Drews
I'mma tellin' you .. I swear .. that book was one of the best things I ever bought .. absolutely priceless .. it taught me so much about the alcoholic and the way they think ..
So he is using his drinking as a crutch? Oh you should cook for me .. because I'm too sick to do it myself?
Well then maybe he should conceive the idea to quit drinkin' .. stop huggin' the toilet, no more hangovers ... and then wahlah .. hand him a skillet and a spatchula *try not to hit him with either* and tell him to get ta makin' you some dinner for a change ..
What a crocked crock .. I'd leave him a his moms too .. screw that ..
When he gets hungry enough .. he'll eat *or starve* HIS CHOICE
When he gets sick enough .. he'll call the doctor *or die* HIS CHOICE
I wouldn't lift a finger to help him ..
and of course mom isn't going to agree with this .. because she is an enabler ..
This post just really got under my skin .. I wish I could jump in your body and give him the old what for .. frying pan and all .. LOL
Sounds to me like you've got yourself headed in the right direction though .. and ya know .. I would keep on going right past him and off into the real life that you deserve.
Passion
I'mma tellin' you .. I swear .. that book was one of the best things I ever bought .. absolutely priceless .. it taught me so much about the alcoholic and the way they think ..
So he is using his drinking as a crutch? Oh you should cook for me .. because I'm too sick to do it myself?
Well then maybe he should conceive the idea to quit drinkin' .. stop huggin' the toilet, no more hangovers ... and then wahlah .. hand him a skillet and a spatchula *try not to hit him with either* and tell him to get ta makin' you some dinner for a change ..
What a crocked crock .. I'd leave him a his moms too .. screw that ..
When he gets hungry enough .. he'll eat *or starve* HIS CHOICE
When he gets sick enough .. he'll call the doctor *or die* HIS CHOICE
I wouldn't lift a finger to help him ..
and of course mom isn't going to agree with this .. because she is an enabler ..
This post just really got under my skin .. I wish I could jump in your body and give him the old what for .. frying pan and all .. LOL
Sounds to me like you've got yourself headed in the right direction though .. and ya know .. I would keep on going right past him and off into the real life that you deserve.
Passion
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally Posted by TheMissus
He's definately got it easier at his mums, I try my damn hardest not to enable him, however, some of it is unavoidable, such as doing his share of the houseworks, taking on the responsibility of the kids, pets, shopping, bills etc..
He still wants to come back here though...even though his mum looks after him "properly". I know if he ever gets better he'll see what I was trying to do and that it was the right thing to do, but right now I guess thats hard for him to understand.
He still wants to come back here though...even though his mum looks after him "properly". I know if he ever gets better he'll see what I was trying to do and that it was the right thing to do, but right now I guess thats hard for him to understand.
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