Dry Drunk
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by equus
Best,
Just as a question. Hypothetically (yep I do mean that) if you came to think 'dry drunk' was an unhealthy way to describe people - would you change how you describe yourself? Not out of lack of truth - ass probably covers it (does in my case!!) but out of wanting harmful language to decline.
Harmful actions are what needs be stopped. Use of a word, when properly used is correct grammar. Any word used as a dig or shot at another would be improper use of words.
Context and environment should dictate what words and when they should be used. Wrong context or environment, "any" word can be used as in insult.
A Jock must mean something different across the pond. Here it is a nic for a pro athelete.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by equus
Or maybe just picked up a phrase bit like I did with some of my less flavoursome labels.
Anything is possible.
Except this...
I really don't think anyone can understand completely why some people really take offense at being called a dry drunk, unless they're drunks themselves.
We can turn this into a semantic circus.
But the bottom line for me is that it is spiritually unacceptable to use these words, and all its associated intended meanings, in a medium such as this one, the internet.
Face to face is a whole different universe.
With its own set of problems
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
A duck is a duck. If someone starts to say that calling a duck is wrong, I will still call it a duck.
Not that I think this is identicle - just that our CHOICE of label can amtter and that was what my question refered to.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I really don't think anyone can understand completely why some people really take offense at being called a dry drunk, unless they're drunks themselves.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by Dan
Face to face is a whole different universe.
With its own set of problems
OK that won't happen either. With the drinking stopped there has only been two punches thrown over the past 20 years or so.. #2 was because he said I couldn't do that again. (July 31,1986) Phew! good thing the judge ruled in my favor that time. Or was it?
There is the downside of the internet and word usage. No direct punishment so words can fly freely.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
ITs not that it "hurts our feelings"
more that alcholisim is one of societies greatest problems, and terms like "dry drunk" have stunted the growth of the recovery movement for decades.
Hard line AA doctors (G. Vallient) have candidly thrown that term around inside an industry that is trying to heal a massive problem. Pah, he's just a dry drunk.
more that alcholisim is one of societies greatest problems, and terms like "dry drunk" have stunted the growth of the recovery movement for decades.
Hard line AA doctors (G. Vallient) have candidly thrown that term around inside an industry that is trying to heal a massive problem. Pah, he's just a dry drunk.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
It does not bother me. Call me a dry drunk all your like.
What does bother me is how it affects peoples minds to suddenly start seeing huge amounts of people as "dry drunks", as "sick", as "selfish"... I used to feel sorry for depressed people - two years into AA I thought they were selfish.
When a rational look at a dry drunk would destroy the tag completley.
What does bother me is how it affects peoples minds to suddenly start seeing huge amounts of people as "dry drunks", as "sick", as "selfish"... I used to feel sorry for depressed people - two years into AA I thought they were selfish.
When a rational look at a dry drunk would destroy the tag completley.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
"Those that seem comfortable calling others dry drunks online almost invariably are very confused people, suffering from a range of emotional anomalies ranging from grandiosity to almost terminal lack of self-esteem.
One hopes that these people are on the cusp of the next spiritual plateau in their recovery journeys themselves. For it seems they've lost the comfort zone of the one they reside in now."
Truth in this. I cant think of any reason for using such a weird statement.
One hopes that these people are on the cusp of the next spiritual plateau in their recovery journeys themselves. For it seems they've lost the comfort zone of the one they reside in now."
Truth in this. I cant think of any reason for using such a weird statement.
Binge poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 561
Originally Posted by best
A Jock must mean something different across the pond. Here it is a nic for a pro athelete.
Jane
xxx
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 727
The dry drunk thingy.I personally never have bought into it.I dont use it,either,to describe others.That would be my taking their inventory,would it not?..lol
There are a host of reasons why when folks put down the drink,that they still apear as if they havent changed.Many mental illnesses,out there,that i dont understand,nor have i personally experienced.What do i know.?????
We deal with alcohol.Cunning baffling and powerful.If you need help i can help guide you through the 12 steps,of AA as this is how i found recovery,.I can share,my es-h,with you.If i need to lable you as a dry drunk,houstan its me that has the problem...lol.There is a host of alcoholics,out there that i just dont understand.Lots of them.But as soon as we talk about alcohol,,,,then i understand,where they have been...This ...part ........of where they have been,and who they are.
Here we go,with my ramblings,,lol...
i see an animal.hmmm.it waddles,back and forth..it quacks.Swims.From all counts,from what ive learned,this is a duck...i have labled it as such.I got this from reading,and looking at pictures of a duck..
However,and yes there is a however,lol.
By all phyically appearences its a duck.But i dont know whats in its heart and mind.For all i know,this duck may believe,that he is a swan...If he believes he is a swan,then he is.And my lable goes out the window.Moral of this story,is for me to be careful on judgeing others,by appearences...In some they may,very well have a mental illness,that i dont understand,after they have put down the drink.Lables only give me comfort,and takes away my own fears,of others.All spiritual teachings so far that ive read,have asked me to let go of phyicall appearences.For i really dont know whats going in inside another,unless i ask-----them.And even then,i may not understand,or get it.Bottles were only a symbile,to deeper issues.
Thansk for letting me blab,blab,blab,with my opinions...smile...
God Bless and take care!!!!
There are a host of reasons why when folks put down the drink,that they still apear as if they havent changed.Many mental illnesses,out there,that i dont understand,nor have i personally experienced.What do i know.?????
We deal with alcohol.Cunning baffling and powerful.If you need help i can help guide you through the 12 steps,of AA as this is how i found recovery,.I can share,my es-h,with you.If i need to lable you as a dry drunk,houstan its me that has the problem...lol.There is a host of alcoholics,out there that i just dont understand.Lots of them.But as soon as we talk about alcohol,,,,then i understand,where they have been...This ...part ........of where they have been,and who they are.
Here we go,with my ramblings,,lol...
i see an animal.hmmm.it waddles,back and forth..it quacks.Swims.From all counts,from what ive learned,this is a duck...i have labled it as such.I got this from reading,and looking at pictures of a duck..
However,and yes there is a however,lol.
By all phyically appearences its a duck.But i dont know whats in its heart and mind.For all i know,this duck may believe,that he is a swan...If he believes he is a swan,then he is.And my lable goes out the window.Moral of this story,is for me to be careful on judgeing others,by appearences...In some they may,very well have a mental illness,that i dont understand,after they have put down the drink.Lables only give me comfort,and takes away my own fears,of others.All spiritual teachings so far that ive read,have asked me to let go of phyicall appearences.For i really dont know whats going in inside another,unless i ask-----them.And even then,i may not understand,or get it.Bottles were only a symbile,to deeper issues.
Thansk for letting me blab,blab,blab,with my opinions...smile...
God Bless and take care!!!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Cap3
The dry drunk thingy.I personally never have bought into it.I dont use it,either,to describe others.That would be my taking their inventory,would it not?..lol
There are a host of reasons why when folks put down the drink,that they still apear as if they havent changed.Many mental illnesses,out there,that i dont understand,nor have i personally experienced.What do i know.?????
We deal with alcohol.Cunning baffling and powerful.If you need help i can help guide you through the 12 steps,of AA as this is how i found recovery,.I can share,my es-h,with you.If i need to lable you as a dry drunk,houstan its me that has the problem...lol.There is a host of alcoholics,out there that i just dont understand.Lots of them.But as soon as we talk about alcohol,,,,then i understand,where they have been...This ...part ........of where they have been,and who they are.
Here we go,with my ramblings,,lol...
i see an animal.hmmm.it waddles,back and forth..it quacks.Swims.From all counts,from what ive learned,this is a duck...i have labled it as such.I got this from reading,and looking at pictures of a duck..
However,and yes there is a however,lol.
By all phyically appearences its a duck.But i dont know whats in its heart and mind.For all i know,this duck may believe,that he is a swan...If he believes he is a swan,then he is.And my lable goes out the window.Moral of this story,is for me to be careful on judgeing others,by appearences...In some they may,very well have a mental illness,that i dont understand,after they have put down the drink.Lables only give me comfort,and takes away my own fears,of others.All spiritual teachings so far that ive read,have asked me to let go of phyicall appearences.For i really dont know whats going in inside another,unless i ask-----them.And even then,i may not understand,or get it.Bottles were only a symbile,to deeper issues.
Thansk for letting me blab,blab,blab,with my opinions...smile...
God Bless and take care!!!!
There are a host of reasons why when folks put down the drink,that they still apear as if they havent changed.Many mental illnesses,out there,that i dont understand,nor have i personally experienced.What do i know.?????
We deal with alcohol.Cunning baffling and powerful.If you need help i can help guide you through the 12 steps,of AA as this is how i found recovery,.I can share,my es-h,with you.If i need to lable you as a dry drunk,houstan its me that has the problem...lol.There is a host of alcoholics,out there that i just dont understand.Lots of them.But as soon as we talk about alcohol,,,,then i understand,where they have been...This ...part ........of where they have been,and who they are.
Here we go,with my ramblings,,lol...
i see an animal.hmmm.it waddles,back and forth..it quacks.Swims.From all counts,from what ive learned,this is a duck...i have labled it as such.I got this from reading,and looking at pictures of a duck..
However,and yes there is a however,lol.
By all phyically appearences its a duck.But i dont know whats in its heart and mind.For all i know,this duck may believe,that he is a swan...If he believes he is a swan,then he is.And my lable goes out the window.Moral of this story,is for me to be careful on judgeing others,by appearences...In some they may,very well have a mental illness,that i dont understand,after they have put down the drink.Lables only give me comfort,and takes away my own fears,of others.All spiritual teachings so far that ive read,have asked me to let go of phyicall appearences.For i really dont know whats going in inside another,unless i ask-----them.And even then,i may not understand,or get it.Bottles were only a symbile,to deeper issues.
Thansk for letting me blab,blab,blab,with my opinions...smile...
God Bless and take care!!!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Thansk for letting me blab,blab,blab,with my opinions...smile...
All I would add is calling a duck a duck isn't the same. There's no suggestion in the word duck of lies, selfishness, addiction, immaturity, failure to progress... it's just a duck.
The problem only exists when the label begins to mean far more than a set of testable attributes - then we choose. P*ki is just short for Pakistani - yet to shout it down the street you realise it is MUCH MUCH MORE, then we chose. We may never fully understand how an Asian feels hearing 'P*ki' but we learn to understand enough to make the choice not to do it. It becomes wrong.
Michael
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London England
Posts: 291
Pick-a-name,
I prefer to view the thee-fold effects of the addiction as physical, mental and emotional. To me there is no need to undergo a spiritual awakening in order to become "cured" or as I would say, sober. I do not hold with the disease concept in any shape or form. I was not diseased when I was drinking. I had a physical addiction to alcohol that caused mental and emotional effects. I no longer drink and as a result I no longer feel self-loathing, anxiety, guilt and all the other by-products of addiction. Mentally I am more confident and focussed on everyday life and I really feel like my old pre-addiction self.
Despite all this I have been told that my sobriety will be "a white-knuckle ride" because I refuse to accept the need to throw my lot in with a higher power.
Michael
I prefer to view the thee-fold effects of the addiction as physical, mental and emotional. To me there is no need to undergo a spiritual awakening in order to become "cured" or as I would say, sober. I do not hold with the disease concept in any shape or form. I was not diseased when I was drinking. I had a physical addiction to alcohol that caused mental and emotional effects. I no longer drink and as a result I no longer feel self-loathing, anxiety, guilt and all the other by-products of addiction. Mentally I am more confident and focussed on everyday life and I really feel like my old pre-addiction self.
Despite all this I have been told that my sobriety will be "a white-knuckle ride" because I refuse to accept the need to throw my lot in with a higher power.
Michael
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by Five
"Those that seem comfortable calling others dry drunks online almost invariably are very confused people, suffering from a range of emotional anomalies ranging from grandiosity to almost terminal lack of self-esteem.
One hopes that these people are on the cusp of the next spiritual plateau in their recovery journeys themselves. For it seems they've lost the comfort zone of the one they reside in now."
Truth in this. I cant think of any reason for using such a weird statement.
One hopes that these people are on the cusp of the next spiritual plateau in their recovery journeys themselves. For it seems they've lost the comfort zone of the one they reside in now."
Truth in this. I cant think of any reason for using such a weird statement.
HAHAHAHA!!
Well, in the words that have been quoted often by a group of people who I dare not offend
; Take what you want, and leave the rest!!! good discussion
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Originally Posted by michaelj
Pick-a-name,
I prefer to view the thee-fold effects of the addiction as physical, mental and emotional. To me there is no need to undergo a spiritual awakening in order to become "cured" or as I would say, sober. I do not hold with the disease concept in any shape or form. I was not diseased when I was drinking. I had a physical addiction to alcohol that caused mental and emotional effects. I no longer drink and as a result I no longer feel self-loathing, anxiety, guilt and all the other by-products of addiction. Mentally I am more confident and focussed on everyday life and I really feel like my old pre-addiction self.
Despite all this I have been told that my sobriety will be "a white-knuckle ride" because I refuse to accept the need to throw my lot in with a higher power.
Michael
I prefer to view the thee-fold effects of the addiction as physical, mental and emotional. To me there is no need to undergo a spiritual awakening in order to become "cured" or as I would say, sober. I do not hold with the disease concept in any shape or form. I was not diseased when I was drinking. I had a physical addiction to alcohol that caused mental and emotional effects. I no longer drink and as a result I no longer feel self-loathing, anxiety, guilt and all the other by-products of addiction. Mentally I am more confident and focussed on everyday life and I really feel like my old pre-addiction self.
Despite all this I have been told that my sobriety will be "a white-knuckle ride" because I refuse to accept the need to throw my lot in with a higher power.
Michael
I am glad for you that you have found something that is working for you. That is all any one of us can do! Perhaps this will always be the case; perhaps at some point you may want "more",and on and on.............. If you decide in the future to change your views, great thing is you can, but you don't have to!
Continued success!
an after thought: do you consider yourself "powerless" over your addiction? And if so; what do you consider the greater power that allows you to be where you are? I'm really curious?
Thanks!
Michael
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London England
Posts: 291
Pick-a-name
There is the world of difference between the addiction itself and the drug to which one is addicted.
I am powerless over the drug, alcohol. Once it gets into my system I am unable to control my drinking. In my drinking days I noted that on the rare occasions that I had only one or two drinks I would crave more to drink for about the next three or four hours. That was roughly the time taken for the alcohol to be excreted and metabolised out of my system. These cravings were tremendously powerful and once given into I was on my way to oblivion.
I am not powerless over my addiction. I do not drink, I do not intend to drink. I lead a sober life and I am content within myself that my sobriety is the only way to defeat my addiction. I have established the right approach to sobriety for me. It suits me because I regard the problem in purely rational terms. I do not need the support of a faith based spiritual concept to see me through.
I thank you for your kind words but I have to tell you that for me this physical life is all I have. There is no "more" that I can aspire to. Some may think that a sad state of affairs but I am content with that view of life.
Regards
Michael
There is the world of difference between the addiction itself and the drug to which one is addicted.
I am powerless over the drug, alcohol. Once it gets into my system I am unable to control my drinking. In my drinking days I noted that on the rare occasions that I had only one or two drinks I would crave more to drink for about the next three or four hours. That was roughly the time taken for the alcohol to be excreted and metabolised out of my system. These cravings were tremendously powerful and once given into I was on my way to oblivion.
I am not powerless over my addiction. I do not drink, I do not intend to drink. I lead a sober life and I am content within myself that my sobriety is the only way to defeat my addiction. I have established the right approach to sobriety for me. It suits me because I regard the problem in purely rational terms. I do not need the support of a faith based spiritual concept to see me through.
I thank you for your kind words but I have to tell you that for me this physical life is all I have. There is no "more" that I can aspire to. Some may think that a sad state of affairs but I am content with that view of life.
Regards
Michael
body ~ mind ~ spirit
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 582
Very interesting posts. And I can see the truth of all arguments. I guess I think that there are some antiquated ways of thinking of things and that just "maybe" AA has some terminology that is rather outdated. Sometimes I think it can detract from the message when the phrasing is negative.
I don't like to think of my achievements in relation to not drinking as anything less than substantial, even if my thinking and growth still have further to go.
NOR would I like my thinking about things to be left unchallenged by those who understand.
But the understanding I have is that the "dry drunk" thinking and behaviours are not particular to alcoholics at all. I see them everywhere. Lots of people are at different stages of personal growth.
As a sober alcoholic I just think I hate the thought of applying the word "drunk" to myself.
love brigid
I don't like to think of my achievements in relation to not drinking as anything less than substantial, even if my thinking and growth still have further to go.
NOR would I like my thinking about things to be left unchallenged by those who understand.
But the understanding I have is that the "dry drunk" thinking and behaviours are not particular to alcoholics at all. I see them everywhere. Lots of people are at different stages of personal growth.
As a sober alcoholic I just think I hate the thought of applying the word "drunk" to myself.
love brigid
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