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Dry Drunk

Old 01-13-2006, 04:31 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bahookie
...but those are offensive words that were used to describe what someone is, not how they are behaving.
I have a choice to be utterly awful or obnoxious, and if I am I can't object to someone telling me I am. (Right, ok, sometimes I do).

I can object to someone calling me Jock!

j
Not enirely - however selfish I am no-one will call me dry drunk. However grumpy I am in absence of a cigarette I think it's unlikely to occur to someone I'm a dry drunk.

Now if someone decided that Scottish selfish people could be called a '.... jock' but not english selfish people - How would that sit?

Perhaps include a whole string of behaviours you also observe in the english - however they get grouped together and your scottishness is used to expalin them.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:35 AM
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I come to this forum to GAIN knowledge and hopefully just to impart a wee bit by sharing my own ESH.

If I have learned naught I at least realize something and it is that when corresponding with others over the the internet it is probably best to avoid using terms like "dry drunk" and "tough love" when trying to describe another persons behaviour or what I think they should be doing.

It is perfectly okay for me to adapt these terms to my own behaviour but I think we are cutting it too close when we attach it to people we do not even know.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:37 AM
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We had a discussion on this site not very long ago about the same issue of "dry drunk". I said at the time that I did not believe in the validity of the syndrome as it was used to describe a failure to engage in a spiritual dimension of sobriety.
I was not surprised to be immediately labelled a "dry drunk" by a member. Note that I was criticised for my failure to believe, not for my observable actions....weird.
It is often used pejoratively and it has the power to wound. It is offensive to me and I do wish that instead of sloganeering people would think more carefully before using empty phrases.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by equus
Not enirely - however selfish I am no-one will call me dry drunk. However grumpy I am in absence of a cigarette I think it's unlikely to occur to someone I'm a dry drunk.

Now if someone decided that Scottish selfish people could be called a '.... jock' but not english selfish people - How would that sit?
No, they probably wouldn't. Would that be because you aren't exhibiting enough of those behaviours to merit the description?

So what is the alternative to using the phrase? Would it not even sit a little more comfortably as simply an abbrieviation? Shorthand for an accepted collection of stuff?

Ha! you got me with the Scottish stuff. Very good I'm going to have to think about that one, you're good fun.

J
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by best
Call me what ever you want.
Just don't call me late for lunch, okay.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:41 AM
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Would it not even sit a little more comfortably as simply an abbrieviation? Shorthand for an accepted collection of stuff?
First you need to know what 'stuff' others think lies in that collection. Secondly Dry DRUNK seems a fairly inadequate shorthand for someone t-total!! My hubby hasn't drank in over two months, while like me he can be a pain in the bum he certainly isn't drunk.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:46 AM
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"someone exhibiting ineffective coping behaviours"?

None of my business - if their behaviour is affecting me, it's up to me to set boundaries.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by minnie
"someone exhibiting ineffective coping behaviours"?

None of my business - if their behaviour is affecting me, it's up to me to set boundaries.
If you witness someone being bullied - is it your business? I'm not saying that's the same just asking about our responsibilities as people.
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Old 01-13-2006, 04:59 AM
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I don't understand you point in relation to the topic, Eq. There are ways and means of dealing with bullies and, save for violence, it is surely up to the person being bullied to learn these? I ain't no Superwoman.

It really isn't any of my business if someone else is clinging onto (what I believe are) outdated coping strategies. There is enough information out there to help people these days, if they want it. Besides, I've tried forcing people to wise up and it just doesn't work. The only thing I can do is minimise its impact on me. Oops, there I go being arrogant again. Who am I to say how a person's coping methods work for them?
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:16 AM
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Sorry Minnie that came off half cocked! I was thinking about what Jane had said re needing to talk about negative behaviour so that we know we aren't alone - i think that's fair and I believe you do too. I used a lousey example for what we do when we reply to a thread written by someone suffering the consequences of another's ineffective coping mechanisms, ie if we can help then it is our business.


I suppose that's why I also say I don't think a catchy phrase like 'dry drunk' helps. Because we do what we can - rather than more than we can if you get me?
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Little Missy

I'm sure, at the time I was a dry drunk, if someone called me one, I would have WENT OFF!!
Precisely.
When I'm in dry drunk mode, I'm not receptive to even constructive criticism, let alone being told the truth.
I like the way you describe it, Missy.
...not growing, not maturing.

That's exactly how it was for me, and still can be.
All the irritability, impatience, plainly obvious for me to see because I wasn't loaded all the time. And yet, I seemed powerless to get over it.

I had to change my thinking, plain and simple.
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelj
It is offensive to me and I do wish that instead of sloganeering people would think more carefully before using empty phrases.
Well said, Michael.
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:24 AM
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I had to change my thinking, plain and simple.
Part of the human condition for growth isn't it? Dan - on my life, I've had to change my thinking to become unstuck countless times and I'm not an alcoholic. Does that make me a dry drunk? And if it does does those to whom it wouldn't apply only be those who never have to change their thinking?
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by equus
I suppose that's why I also say I don't think a catchy phrase like 'dry drunk' helps. Because we do what we can - rather than more than we can if you get me?
Not everyone does what they can, all the time.

What are these outdated coping mechanisms? Mine? Sorry, you've lost me!
I can't see that my acceptance of a phrase is somehow affecting the way I cope?

J
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:31 AM
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I get you, Eq. I like to think that I am changing the way I deal with people from a very prescriptive "You're this, you should do that" to "This is how it was for me/someone I know, this is how I/they dealt with it and this is what I/they learnt. (I don't get that right all the time!)

Oh, and I'm not sure that my decision to help is primarily based on my ability to do so. I know that I could have helped my ex to death. So it is not always my business, even if I have the ability. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I am deluded in my assessment of my ability most of the time.
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:38 AM
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I know that I could have helped my ex to death.
Now that wouldn't exactly be helpful.... I think you stopped when you found you couldn't help rather than when you felt you could help helpfully.

I agree on the rest precriptions are dodgey!
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by equus
Part of the human condition for growth isn't it? Dan - on my life, I've had to change my thinking to become unstuck countless times and I'm not an alcoholic. Does that make me a dry drunk? And if it does does those to whom it wouldn't apply only be those who never have to change their thinking?
Too many hypotheticals there, eq

I've said this before, and I'll say it again... The words dry drunk suit me. I can apply them to periods of my life. Again, though, pity the fool who calls me a dry drunk, for any reason.

To somewhat echo Peter's words, I don't think the descriptive has a place in online communication, and most certainly not if used to describe someone else's behavior.

Those that seem comfortable calling others dry drunks online almost invariably are very confused people, suffering from a range of emotional anomalies ranging from grandiosity to almost terminal lack of self-esteem.
One hopes that these people are on the cusp of the next spiritual plateau in their recovery journeys themselves. For it seems they've lost the comfort zone of the one they reside in now.
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:05 AM
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Those that seem comfortable calling others dry drunks online almost invariably are very confused people, suffering from a range of emotional anomalies ranging from grandiosity to almost terminal lack of self-esteem.
Or maybe just picked up a phrase bit like I did with some of my less flavoursome labels.

However if it becomes a mostly silent phrase I'll be all the happier and hopefully in refering to yourself you won't mind TOO much if I add that I've had some of those battles to fight too, or that actually I think the changes you describe are amongst the best of humanity rather than drunkeness ('cos until you see it you sure as hell can't change it!).
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan

Those that seem comfortable calling others dry drunks online almost invariably are very confused people, suffering from a range of emotional anomalies ranging from grandiosity to almost terminal lack of self-esteem.
Or maybe they are just an ass/dry drunk/mostly sober at the moment*LOL*
Works for me. I remember the days well.
ohhh and the things that I would say and the people who would encourage me with the laughter. Those who called me an ass, didn't change me at the moment, as that just fueled the fire but later, it did have me thinking...hmmm maybe I was a bit of an ass?
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Old 01-13-2006, 06:26 AM
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Truthfully, I may be out of the loop on this discussion.......seems like it has become almost "legalise" (ie "Clinton-speak", haha; "Politically Correct",etc) but I think "dry drunk" as shorthand for "exhibiting the *isms* of alcohol with out the physical presence of the chemical". The alcohol causes longterm changes that need corrected, even biochemically.

Is it an insult? No, not in my mind. To refer to an alcoholic as one, before the denial of the disease is breeched, could be considered by some to be an insult,too. (and let's not get into the discussion of deciding who is or is not an alcoholic right now,and if anyone else can say that about someone else....) But does it give factual information ; I think it does.

I believe that it IS a three-pronged disease: physical, mental and spritual. Believing that; and maybe THERE is where the this discussion begins (IF, in fact you do think these three things are ALL important)....... I believe that for for true recovery, ALL THREE parts of the disease must be addressed; not only the removal of alcohol, etc from the equation. In fact, that is the first step and THEN the real work begins with the other two components.

JMHO; take it or leave it.

Best to you all. "Dry drunk" I find as a shorthand term to describe a partial recovery; a first step if-you-will.
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