fuguestate

That might be me Brigid. I went back to moderate drinking after several years of either little drinking and no drinking. I am a completely different person to who I use to be and I attribute that to my ability to moderate. I am always vigilant with drinking (although I can have a drink and thoughts like "i should watch out because once I have one I might not be able to stop" doesn't enter me head anymore). I never get drunk.

brigid

I thought it was you fuguestate, just was a bit lazy about going back and reading all the posts to find it.

So do you not obssess about drinking anymore? Can you have one drink and then nothing for the rest of the evening and not think about it?

Hope you don't mind my asking, I just can't see it for myself. EVEN though I think that alcoholism may be a combination of emotional instability and self esteem issues, even correcting these things later in life without alcohol, I still can't see that the physical pathways created previously would not be in existence or in memory.

BUT just because I can't see it doesn't mean that it can't happen. Like, my brother gave me some great advice when I was stressing about my kids starting with alcohol - "ask them if they count their drinks". Now that was not advice that he would have even been able to think about years back when he drank like I drank.

Thanks,
love brigid

Taiman

I stated the series of events in which they happened. Facts can not be B.S.
She went back to AA and attempted total abstinence from drinking, it was at this point that she got drunk and killed those people. When she was practicing moderation no such events happened. You can interpret it how you like.

There are experts in the field of alcohol dependency who believe that people who have an alcohol problem can moderate their drinking, you personally may not believe it, but others do. I personally have known people who had a drinking problem, who left AA and who went on to successfully moderate their drinking. You can argue was that person an alcoholic or not but there isn't a medical test one can perform to determine if one is an alcoholic or not. AA's little questionnaire is hardly scientific.

Taiman

Brigid I do a few people but I will stress ONLY A FEW. Like you I would not personally choose to attempt moderation, after 13 years sober I have to much to loose. I may be successful, I may fail, for me it just isn't worth the risk.


Ok on to the people I know. One was a family friend who was a horrible drug addict and alcoholic. He can match any story in AA any day of the week. He got sober through religion then moved on to drink in moderation. He has a family, 2 grown up boys, a wife, he is one of the most honest and reliable people I know. He has a good family life, he is well liked and to my astonishment he drinks in moderation and has done so for 20 or so years.


The other person is also a family friend, she attended AA and decided it wasn't for her. She then went to a controlled drinking program at the Addiction Research Foundation and has been moderating her drinking for 10 or so years. She has also repaired relationships with her family, she has become a useful and productive member of society again. Her sister tells me she doesn't embarass anyone at family functions anymore. SHe is much happier. She also is very active in a local church.

The third person is another friend I know who left AA. He was kept sober for a number of years on his own and then a few years ago he tried drinking in moderation. He claims he is successful and his wife agrees but she is still nervous about it. He has only done this for a few years so we will see.


I will say that the VAST MAJORITY of people I know who have tried controlled drinking failed miserably. I only suggest it to people who aren't convinced they have to quit entirely. I tell them try moderation, if you succeed kudos to you, if you fail give up the act and quit.

I am sorry that you and your brother have grown apart, I know it can be tough with family members. Perhaps you should give him a shot? If he succeeds great, if not you still love him, he is your brother and in my opinion nothing is more important than family.

brigid

Thanks Taiman, nice to hear that!

My brother and I are fine really, the closeness is not as strong simply because he got married a couple of years ago, lives a distance away, is busy with work and life etc. So we are just growing in our own directions.

Really nice to hear that there has been successful moderation! I hope he is one of those who can, his life has certainly been continuing on a good course these last few years.

thanks again!
love brigid

fuguestate

Yip. Had one drink to celebrate something yesterday.

NoMoBeer

Never mind.... not in the mood for a pissing contest today...

Cathy31

You're right, doll!



Love,
Cathy
x

Dan

Nor does AA claim it to be scientific.
That's another fact, chum

Taiman

I know. My point was there isn't a medical or scientific test to determine if someone is an alcoholic. It really is a question of self determination. Whenever I speak to anyone in AA about the alcoholics I know who have *successfully moderated their drinking, the response I get is that, well they couldn't have been an alcoholic to start with.

*As I have said before these people are well in the minority, the vast majority or alcoholics or problem drinkers I know who have tried to moderate their drinking failed miserably.

Cathy31

Taiman
I'm not being smart, but I'd like to see the source of your info about that poor unfortunate woman please. Can you send a link?
Thanks
Cathy31
x

fuguestate

I haven't seen the AA questionnaire but I would have thought that it is as scientific or unscientific as any other questionnaire, and suffers from all the same biases as any other. Large chunks of medicine, psychology and policy research, and many other strands of science, regularly use questionnaires.

Taiman

Sure. There is a lot of finger pointing over Audrey Kishline. She was the founder of Moderation Management. MM claims it was her return to AA that was the cause and people in AA say it was her attempts to moderate that was the problem. However one thing is clear, Audrey had abandoned MM and returned to AA 2 months before the car accident that killed 2 people. Audrey was convicted on vehicular homicide.

This was from a story in the Seattle Times.

"Two months before the crash, she said, she dropped out of the program and joined Alcoholics Anonymous"

SOURCE


My other source was Dr. Jeffrey Schaler. He is a Professor at the American Unversity in Washington D.C. He was also on the board of directors of Moderation Management until 1996.

miss communicat

Hi Brigid,

You asked a few posts back, about experience or anecdotal evidence someone had had with moderation drinking, and I wanted to share my own history with this.

I found recovery 19 years ago in AA. I was sober for 16 years, but after 7 years stopped working the AA program (structured). I have always been commited to personal growth and spiritual development, so I was feeling quite strong in my life at the time. Things were good. (oops. first mistake. I forgot humility)

I began to achieve more and more outward success, which led me to believe that alcoholism is not a true disease, that it was a learned behaviour, and that I had grown past those habituated behaviours.

So, I began to drink, very moderately. I NEVER got drunk. I could have a half glass of wine and leave the other half at the table. I could drink one day and not think about it at all for 3 weeks.

Did I say this was 3 years ago?

For 2 and a half years I was living with the moderation concept,with no problem.

By last year though, my stress levels really increased, related to the huge success in my career (go figure! I get stressed out when things are good, not the other way around). I was getting depressed too. I started isolating. I was getting grandiose. I was keeping secrets. And I was drinking every day.

Soon, I was drinking earlier, and later, more, and more. You know the story from here.....Luckily, I had had sobriety in the past (which ruins drinking, by the way)and I knew what to do.

Although I think its a totally doable thing for some people, no more moderation experiments for me. I prefer to use my energy on other discoveries than
"can I drink today?" Total abstinence, with a spiritual focus, for me, is healing on so many levels.

Just thought I'd share my experience.

c'est la vie

Miss C, I'm glad you shared your own personal experience of moderation. It seems the general opinion (not 100%) is that moderation is possible for a certain period of time for the people who have tried it, but will most likely eventually continute to progress to the point of needing to return to abstinence, if you don't die first. I've heard stories of people being "out of AA" for many years before things got bad again so it's not like one can tell in just a few months whether you'll make it or not.

Today, I'm enjoying not worrying about how many hours I have until someone gets home and how many drinks can I fit in that time and still sober up enough before they get home. Such mental energy is required!!

nomobeer, I'm trying to use you as a role model. I just erased a long paragraph explaining why we should just let the Kishline business lie. I've decided to follow your example and take the high road.
By the way, I went to a meeting yesterday, and I was glad and sad all at once. When I have time I'll tell you about it. Thank you for all your encouragement.

miss communicat

winelover

YAY! not obsessing, to me, is the miracle we all pray for!

NoMoBeer

Miss C... so sorry you had to go through that. Just remember that all of your sober time is not erased! We say 'it takes what it takes,' thank God you're sober today...

winelover... thank you so much for the nice comment. It can be a confusing place where you're at. I remember so well my first 2 years of trying to be sober (you can read my story here ). It was at very least tumultuous. I am so grateful that today I enjoy AA and its principles....

I have to apologize to you on behalf of everyone. It seems that on SR, one cannot post a suggestion of AA without the "non--AA" contingent subtly trying to suggest that AA is less than effective. One of our "slogans" is Live and Let Live. I truly believe that AA is NOT for everyone, but it is a damned good place to start. I "over-thinked" AA when I first went in, and got myself into a great bit of trouble. Then I started listening to guys like my friend Bill who is now my sponsor, and on here guys like Music -- kind of a "just do it" approach. By golly, it works. I don't know why, and today I don't question the nuances, statistics or the little details.

My program has to be as simple as the "ABCs." A. I'm alcoholic and could not manage my own life, B. that no Human Power could relieve me of my alcoholism, and C. that God CAN AND WILL if He is sought. No more needed for me....

Please feel free to PM me anytime if you need questions answered or just want to chat.

Sounds like things are getting a little better for you....that's wonderful.

Ken

daddysgirl29

Winelover, so how are you doing today? I'm glad I read your post b/c not too long ago, I was bummed that I couldn't have "just one" (though I didnt' crave it, thanks to Revia...), but my "new" brain took over and I thought back off all the "recovering" alkies, like me, who had one, and then finished 2 bottles. (Vino was my poison, too.) It scares me to think of going back to that, though 2 bottles would be light compared to what I used to do...

So b/c of people like you, and those that have shared their experiences on this post and on this site, I'm glad I didn't have "just one", b/c I know that I can't, and I'm alive, happy and SOBER today to say that.

Love and peace,