Dan

Understanding my problem.

While AA has always considered alcoholism a disease, controversy still simmers over its definition. In the past, alcoholism has been considered a sin, a sickness, or just a very bad habit. More recently, there has been a suggestion that some "problem drinkers" might not be alcoholics at all and can very possibly bring their drinking under control.

This controversy will undoubtedly continue, but it is important that recovering people understand the nature of alcoholism. It is deadly, it is compulsive, and it is progressive. While there are occasional reports of alcoholics who claim to have become controlled drinkers, few of us have any firsthand evidence of such changes. Much more often, we hear stories of alcoholics who try to drink again, only to find themselves headed down a rocky road.

It is not necessary that we define alcoholism perfectly or precisely. What's more important is that we remember we're powerless over alcohol and cannot safely pick up a drink. No definition will change that reality for an alcoholic who has had an unmanageable life.

I'm fortunate AA gave me an understanding of my problem that I can live with...... one that will help me continue living.

From the book Walk in Dry Places.

Justme57

Hi Dan

Well said

For me , it is enough to know that whatever it is , I have it , am powerless over it , and cant drink

HUGX
Lee

equus

I can see this from both sides of a fence. I think there are some that can drink in a controlled way again after a diagnosis of Alcohol Dependency (DSM IV), based on a survey (I'll get the reference and edit in) carried aout by the NIAAA - it involve thousands of participants all diagnosed dependent and a year later 17% were drinking at UNDER the at risk level. (reference )

BUT - BIG BUT! How do you tell? If diagnosed some can some can't, how on earth can anyone know which side they fall? If we say NONE can it seems safe, we suggest no-one tries, we know abstinance (I have to learn how to spell that!) is safer because they don't HAVE to be able to control consumption. At first glance that seems the way to go - DON'T publicise info about those able to drink - shhhhhhh..... someone might try and it could kill them. My problem with that is certainly my hubby had 'times' when he did control it and took that to mean he couldn't be alcohol dependent because otherwise they wouldn't have existed AND they occured after the worst of his drinking! The second problem is what if the info is held down but enough that presumed inability to control drinking is the SOLE or MAJOR motivation not to drink? Wouldn't it create a significant risk to all those who held that as a means to stay sober if it was found otherwise (and it could be!).

On the other hand what if anyone with a problem could get as much help moderating as quitting? What if disparity amongst those who's drinking is a probelm is accepted? If that help was widely available the chances of individuals having help through the stage of knowing what was possible for them would increase. Perhaps it would attract more than just those willing to quit? Perhaps the respect given to an individuals wishes that moderation help IS positive and not JUST a get out would encourage people to continue to seek help if they then decided to quit.

Personally I'm glad I had respect for my hubby trying to control drinking, I'm glad he had chance for the self respect of coming to his own conclusions about stopping too. I'm glad I showed him the study above even when I'd have dearly loved it to say there's no chance of moderation - it didn't, I'm glad I was open. But that's just one individual perspective.

Dan

When they get to the ground, look up, and see where they landed, I suppose.

Luckyv2

Personally I think that the Big Book describes alcoholism/alcoholic perfectly in the 1st paragraph of Chapter 4. I truly believe that all of these 20 questions, 40 questions, don't apply. If we would go back to when this book first took place the recovery rate was really high considering today's. I think also that if we would just follow the road map that Bill and Bob and the others laid out for us, that the recovery rate would again go up IMO and that is all it is worth.

Love Vic

laurie6781

Early in my sobriety one of the Old Timers said to me: "all alcoholics are problem drinkers, but not all problem drinkers are alcoholics."

And in my early wisdom I said: "Huh?"

He went on to explain that the problem drinker given enough motivation, ie loss of family, loss of job, loss of etc etc could learn to control and enjoy his drinking, and an alcoholic such as himself cannot control and enjoy. He can enjoy, or he can attempt to control and be miserable.

Now that made perfect sense to me then as I had recently arrived in AA after 24 years of trying to control and enjoy my drinking and had never succeeded.

Today, for me I'm like Just Me, I don't care what 'it' (alcoholism) is described as, I just know I have it, and like Lucky I found a way that taught me how to live sober and enjoy life.

I think it goes back to the basics of if you think you have a problem then you probably do, and there are different ways to solve the problem and it is up to the individual to find the solution that works best for them.

JMHO

Love and (((((to all))))),

bikewench

Understanding my problem/s....

I think this is it in a nutshell.

http://healthymind.com/addictions.html

Peter

Until proven one way or the other I am quite comfortable with the "disease" concept.

It works for me and I have no plans of rewriting the books.....

squirrelly77

I wish they had a titter-titter smilie.



titter-titter

Don S

Hazelden, maybe. Not AA.
Type 'disease' into the Big Book Search Engine, and you get one--one!--search result:
"Found 1 matches for "disease".
Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick."

Somehow I don't think that fits any medical definition.

Dan

Darn...
I lost a bet.
Took you longer to point out the apparent contradiction than I had predicted, Don.
I'm losing my touch.

brigid

I hate to be pessimistic but I am now a realist (when I was young I was an idealist), the recovery rate will get worse ... until our society and our attitudes and acceptance towards alcohol change. From Bill and Bob to now, society is different, we look up to getting wasted, we think it is a good time and it is ok and even a symbol of how "with it", "cool", "popular" we are (well not me anymore but watch how alcohol is marketed). Alcohol is nearly an icon in society, a god. How hard is it to resist alcohol in this society?

I used to think it archaic that in the old days women were not allowed to drink with the men, now I think that is quite wise (without going into the issue of women's rights).

In my mind I have a disease and there is a way to live with this disease happily - that way is to remove something that I am allergic to.

love brigid

AndrewBeen

Doesn't matter to me whether it is labelled a disease, a disorder, or a syndrome. They are just English labels anyway, other languages would have a completely different way of slicing and dicing -- but it doesn't matter! Those of us that have it, know we have it, know it's real, and it doesn't change anything what the DSM or anyone else labels it.

Funny, I have yet to meet a problem drinker that:
a) developed a problem
b) problem existed for some time
c) got the problem under control
d) is able to drink moderately from there on
If anyone is out there that has gone through this sequence, I would love to hear from you.

I guess I have not met anyone who was a problem drinker (abuser) who was not an alcoholic.

Don S

Why would they be visiting this forum?

bikewench

Hey Andrew...
I get your point.. ;o)




Addiction is addiction.

We enter a negative emotional/mental state acerbated by outside stressors that we feel are out of our control.. and our thinking gets whacked and generally our physiology with it...

life is pain...

then.. we engage something outside us that gives us pleasure and a momentary relief from the pain...

doesn't take the brain 1 nanosecond to realize this is a good thing .. cause it makes it feel better...
it don't care what it is... it just knows it feels better so.. it wants more.

after a while.. the psyche becomes dependent on the substance for relief...

and it begins to take more and more to bring the same relief....

And now.. we're not using for the pleasure anymore...
we're gone beyond that.
Now.. we use to avoid the withdrawal.



So.. at some point we manage to get clean and our lives straightened out ... and life is good for a time... even years...
and we're thinking we have it made...
and boom... the big shyte stick descends and we're in pain again...

well..
the brain and the body remember this part really.. really... well.

and the first thing it thinks of is the remembered relief that such and such brought.

I'm sure we're all familiar with that point... ;o)

and that is when we return to the insanity of using if we don't use other means to cope.
And once we do use... our psyche takes us right back to where it left off.. cause that's what it remembers..

Mind you... all of this is happening under our consciousness.. so.. we haven't had any choice really...


Even knowing what I do now.. I still have a daily dance with wanting to escape my own mind..


Disease is defined as anything abnormal in ourselves..

I think that addiction is a disease because it is not the normal state for the body to be in.. and it is not controllable on several levels..

Whenever we lose our choice.. then I think we are in the disease area.

My 2 cents.

squirrelly77

I don't know...why?

AndrewBeen

All kind of folks come in here from time to time.