Kabalah1

A good point has been made here. I should not have take the bait the first time when DonS responded so negatively to Kip's post. Like the few of you, I tend to be defensive of my friends. Sorry for that.

Mogqua started this thread "What the deal with SMART" in order to get a factual analysis of SMART as an effective alternative. Kip's opinion can be confirmed or denied by visiting www.smartrecovery.org . DonS' comments reagrding me can be easily dispelled by visiting www.smartrecovery.org and by reading the message boards and chatting with the members, including those referenced in his latest message (folks there assume that the content is held in confidence, so I will not reference specifics here).

I have nine months of intensive experience from which to draw conclusions at SMART. And I am happy to share those experiences in this thread pertaining to SMART with those that have questions pertaining to SMART.

I have no such experience here as I have been a member for 2 days and have posted but a single post. If any of you feel the need to judge me on that single post, so be it.

I look forward to making many new friends here in the pursuit of solutions for sobriety. And perhaps seeing old aquaintances in a new light.

As DonS said so many times in the AA thread above, this thread is not about me or about Don, it is about "What is the deal with SMART". And that is where I will keep my comments from this point forward.

Dan

Good move

kip13

Mogqua:

I think the answers to your questions are different today than when you first posted them. The SMART Board is assuming a more active role in the online operations and are making changes in people, policy and practices as we speak. REBT remains a powerful concept in the support of addiction recovery. Many of your concerns appear to be under consideration. We look forward to evaluating the changes and SMART's improved focus on recovery related issues, especially those dealing with alcoholism.

Kip

equus

The thlot pickens....

Or am I just going senile?

Don S

Not really. The management of the message board and online meetings has been taken in house, and is being overseen by a paid staff person rather than by volunteers. They may streamline the message board forums, and might modify the meeting schedule. No other change in policy or practices is underway. I'm ON the SMART Board.
Don S

Dan

There's no substitute for the horse's mouth, folks

minnie

Neigh.

BSPGirl

Well I took a lot from SMART's tools to help me get clean & sober, so it's been helpful to me. But I started to hate how the whole board developed and I got attacked a few times and what not. *shrugs* I still like the tools (CBA, ABC, etc) a lot.

bartender129

First,
Thank you Autumn and Five.

Secondly,
Kab, my participation at SOL dropped of greatly when the site that I work at decided that “infopop” (the platform that SOL is run on) is “web hosting” and subsequently blocked by our firewall. This happened right around the time I became more active here at SR.

Now, if up until that point, you felt that what I posted rarely provided constructive momentum, you are entitled to your own opinion. I will tell you that I get different feedback from many of the members there.

Now the only advice I have ever seen you give is to tell everyone to start taking Naxeltrone, etc., which I once told you is pretty reckless to just tell everyone that.

Now, as for you sitting in the SMART chat room spouting, “who can Kabalah save next?” this happened. I saved the text because I was going to report you if it continued.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens to SMART online.

Good luck to you and Kip in you own Recovery endeavors.

Kabalah1

Leaf:

Thanks and I wish you the best in your recovery as well. This thread is not about you or me, it's about recovery. More specifically it's about SMARTOnline.

It is really up to people to make their own determinations about the usefullness of the site by visiting www.smartrecovery.org .

There they can review the tools and the changes and look at SMARTs position on recovery medications like naltrexone and acamprosate.

We are pleased with the changes that are taking place there and look forward to a valuable tool expanding its base of members.

Another option that has been created is www.ozrecover.net which was formed by some former participants at SMART. Anything that can assist in recovery is a good thing. It's effectiveness must be determined by the individual seeking support or by the referring organization.

All the best.

Kab

Don S

Hey, Kabalah, I'm happy to see the plug for the new peer support site www.ozrecovery.net. The participants there are varied, but we are not 'former' participants at SMART. Most so far are participants at both. It is not affiliated with any organization or program, and is open to all. It is just another site dedicated to making use of the value of peer support, camaraderie, and community in recovery.

The SMART Recovery Board just finished writing an 'official' position on medications. I don't know if it 's on the web site yet, so here it is for reference.

SMART Recovery®'s Position on Medications

SMART Recovery…

• Believes that it is sensible for individuals to seek medical and/or psychological help for emotional disorders and for addictive disorders in accordance with the best research findings.

• Has no objection to medications prescribed by professionals who may legally prescribe psychotropic medications for depression, anxiety, addictions, or other emotional, behavioral or psychiatric disorders.

• Believes that non-addictive and addictive disorders often co-occur and interact. Non-addictive disorders may intensify when an addictive substance is discontinued, and addictive disorders may diminish in intensity when non-addictive disorders are treated. Failure to aggressively treat co-occurring disorders can delay recovery and even endanger a person's life.

• Has no objection to medications such as disulfiram (Antabuse) or craving-reducing medications like naltrexone (ReVia and Depade) and acamprosate (Campral) for addictive drinking, nor to methadone or LAAM maintenance therapy or buprenorphine (Suboxone and Subutex) for treatment of addiction to opioids. The issue to consider with treatment procedures, including medications, is effectiveness in treating the disorder, reducing harm, and improving the quality of life versus the risks of adverse side effects.

• Disagrees with individuals or programs that take the position that chemicals (medications) should not be used in treatment because chemicals (namely drugs and alcohol) have "caused" addictive problems. This is contrary to the findings of scientific research and the SMART Recovery 4-Point ProgramSM. Thankfully, most groups that used to hold that position are coming to a position similar to that held by SMART Recovery® and most experts in this field.

Kabalah1

I should have said www.ozrecover.net is a new and quickly expanding resource being built by knowledgeable folks with years of experience at places like SMART and SoberRecovery. It is quickly shaping up to be an important online resource and I encourage people to check it out and contribute to its importance.

Kab

bartender129

You aren't going to show up and start telling everyone how ozrecover should be run too, are ya Kab?


uh-oh

Taiman

I think a discussion about SMART, its techniques, how it works, and its effectiveness is a good one.

I would like to address a few statements made by other posters. SMART is much younger than AA so it is logical that its members would have had time to accumulate as much time sober.

SMART hasn't grown as rapidly as AA did because the recovery movement is peopled primarily with people from AA, from lawyers to Judges to Police to politicians to Doctors to Addictions counsellors. Some of these people think you are recommending the devil if you mention an alternative to AA.

AA grew very rapidly in the 20th century. I think only Islam grew faster. However AA's growth has become stagnant of late. Despite making in roads into India, Russia, China and other places the total number of members really hasn't grown in the past few years.

Someone stated that they didn't think SMART was a viable alternative to AA, why not? If painting yourself purple helped you stay sober than it is a viable alternative to AA.

AA has been the only alcohol treatment option for a large part of the 20th Century. That is now changing and I for one think that is good. I wouldn't want to live in a country where there was only one party to vote for. Choices are good. I think people in AA are going to have to start to accept that AA isn't the only way, even Bill Wilson acknowledged this and God knows Wilson was flawed.

bartender129

Well, there are several self proclaimed smarties on this MB. What are your feelings on the most recent happenings at SMART online? I'll offer mine soon, but I am just curious.