Not sure what to do...can you help?
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 390
Must say,NoMoBeer has always "highlighted" the fact that AA has worked for HIM,not everyone,just his personal experience.Maybe if I listened better and tried AA I would not still be so miserable.Its an option for us,not a requirement.BTW,I do NOT go to AA and AM still drinking,makes you wonder.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by NoMoBeer
OK, well -- if you feel "attacked" -- I apologize... I think if you re-read my post I was far from attacking....
Now, to answer some of your other questions and observations:
I know what twilson was coming here for, and I answered his post. I cannot judge other people's situations. My post to you specifically was to ask you to NOT bash 12 step programs, and that they do work for many people like me.
My goal is not to attend AA until I die. My goal is to stay sober today. Period. Maybe I will attend AA until I die, maybe I won't -- I just don't know at this point, Taiman -- I only have today. Tomorrow is not promised to me.
I did not ask him to NOT examine his other options -- I'm not about putting down any option out there -- that's your game, not mine. I can only relate a program that works for me -- to give any insight on other programs I truly know nothing about would be conceited and wrong... I suggested Al Anon, not AA...
And I will reiterate again, I KNOW this man doesn't have a problem with alcohol, I said "AA helps ME..." I never suggested he has a problem, we 12 steppers can even read, you know
...
Oh yeah, I didn't address the 'failure' rate you mentioned. Not sure where you get that kind of data (would you kindly reference your source?) -- but I do know that when I sit in a room with other fellow alcoholics, we are sober -- discussing our sobriety, life, and how we can live sober. I walk out of there sober, and I live life sober. Honestly, that's really all I can do. If others choose to go into AA, go back out -- drink -- whatever -- while it saddens me, there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I'll always be there to help any alcoholic, but all I can do today is my very best to live sober, maybe help another alcoholic if I can, and do the next right thing in front of me. Not sure if Alcoholics Anonymous fails or people fail. I know that AA works for me.... and countless others.
I have not attacked you, but I will defend my program, same as Don S. and other "non-AA folks" have the right to defend their choice of program.
I would ask that you not attack my program -- please stop.
Ken
Now, to answer some of your other questions and observations:
I know what twilson was coming here for, and I answered his post. I cannot judge other people's situations. My post to you specifically was to ask you to NOT bash 12 step programs, and that they do work for many people like me.
My goal is not to attend AA until I die. My goal is to stay sober today. Period. Maybe I will attend AA until I die, maybe I won't -- I just don't know at this point, Taiman -- I only have today. Tomorrow is not promised to me.
I did not ask him to NOT examine his other options -- I'm not about putting down any option out there -- that's your game, not mine. I can only relate a program that works for me -- to give any insight on other programs I truly know nothing about would be conceited and wrong... I suggested Al Anon, not AA...
And I will reiterate again, I KNOW this man doesn't have a problem with alcohol, I said "AA helps ME..." I never suggested he has a problem, we 12 steppers can even read, you know
...Oh yeah, I didn't address the 'failure' rate you mentioned. Not sure where you get that kind of data (would you kindly reference your source?) -- but I do know that when I sit in a room with other fellow alcoholics, we are sober -- discussing our sobriety, life, and how we can live sober. I walk out of there sober, and I live life sober. Honestly, that's really all I can do. If others choose to go into AA, go back out -- drink -- whatever -- while it saddens me, there's not a whole lot I can do about that. I'll always be there to help any alcoholic, but all I can do today is my very best to live sober, maybe help another alcoholic if I can, and do the next right thing in front of me. Not sure if Alcoholics Anonymous fails or people fail. I know that AA works for me.... and countless others.
I have not attacked you, but I will defend my program, same as Don S. and other "non-AA folks" have the right to defend their choice of program.
I would ask that you not attack my program -- please stop.
Ken
I have been to AA many years ago. If it worked for you fantastic but I think it is important to tell the truth as one sees it. I personally haven't met a lot of open minded AA people and I can see what myopic vision has done to AA. You may think I am bashing AA, I believe I am telling the truth about AA. You may not like my opinion but I have a right to voice it, as you have the right to voice yours. I won't attack people here personally unless attacked first.
My statistics ironically enough are AA's own:
AA GSO (Alcoholics Anonymous General Service Organization) conducted triennial surveys where they counted their members and asked questions like how long members had been sober. Around 1990, they published a commentary on the surveys: Comments on A.A.'s Triennial Surveys [ published by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York]. The document has an A.A. identification number of "5M/12-90/TC". The document was produced for A.A. internal use only.
Averaging the results from the five surveys from 1977 to 1989 yielded these numbers:
• 81% are gone (19% remain) after 1 month;
• 90% are gone (10% remain) after 3 months,
• 93% are gone (7% remain) after 6 months,
• and 95% are gone (5% remain) at the end of one year
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
Taiman,
Thanks so much for your reply -- those ARE some scary statistics, eh? I do think much of that (those stats have changed since the beginnings of AA) is do to many of the AA meetings out there becoming "watered down..." Meaning, if we follow the Big Book precisely, we'd have a much higher success rate. Unfortunately, some AA meetings turn into a counseling session -- certainly not the intention meant by its forerathers. 'Nother thread for that debate, I'm sure.
And to answer your honesty question -- I am really being honest when I say I truly don't know if I'll attend AA for the rest of my life. Really! I don't know if I may drink tomorrow, or even be alive tomorrow. I'd like to say that yes, I'd love to be sober the rest of my life -- but I really don't know how long that will be, or if AA will be in the picture.... I do know I'll never outgrow this disease, so I will do whatever I have to in order to keep it at bay...
You absolutely have a right to voice your opinion, I actually welcome outside views (I really do like to hear other philosophies, but I do stick to my AA program, there is SO MUCH out there, though, that complements what I'm doing on a daily basis, I'd be a fool not to listen). When you get close to the bashing and calling it a brainwashing (paraphrasing here!) -- just saying it doesn't work, well.... I'm going to take a stand there.
I don't know why it works for me, it just does. SMART works for others, Rational Recovery for others, and I'm sure standing on your head drinking water in you underwear works for someone else somewhere (I need to be careful, I may end up sponsoring that guy...) -- and yes, sadly there are people who nothing seems to work for, who die or suffer through their alcoholism.
Taiman, I think we've got to call a stale mate here, I'm happy you're sober, hope you're happy I'm sober..... let's call a truce...
Ken
Thanks so much for your reply -- those ARE some scary statistics, eh? I do think much of that (those stats have changed since the beginnings of AA) is do to many of the AA meetings out there becoming "watered down..." Meaning, if we follow the Big Book precisely, we'd have a much higher success rate. Unfortunately, some AA meetings turn into a counseling session -- certainly not the intention meant by its forerathers. 'Nother thread for that debate, I'm sure.
And to answer your honesty question -- I am really being honest when I say I truly don't know if I'll attend AA for the rest of my life. Really! I don't know if I may drink tomorrow, or even be alive tomorrow. I'd like to say that yes, I'd love to be sober the rest of my life -- but I really don't know how long that will be, or if AA will be in the picture.... I do know I'll never outgrow this disease, so I will do whatever I have to in order to keep it at bay...
You absolutely have a right to voice your opinion, I actually welcome outside views (I really do like to hear other philosophies, but I do stick to my AA program, there is SO MUCH out there, though, that complements what I'm doing on a daily basis, I'd be a fool not to listen). When you get close to the bashing and calling it a brainwashing (paraphrasing here!) -- just saying it doesn't work, well.... I'm going to take a stand there.
I don't know why it works for me, it just does. SMART works for others, Rational Recovery for others, and I'm sure standing on your head drinking water in you underwear works for someone else somewhere (I need to be careful, I may end up sponsoring that guy...) -- and yes, sadly there are people who nothing seems to work for, who die or suffer through their alcoholism.
Taiman, I think we've got to call a stale mate here, I'm happy you're sober, hope you're happy I'm sober..... let's call a truce...
Ken
Straight shooter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pontiac, Michigan
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by michaelj
I feel very wary of passing comment on an issue between a man and his fiancee, but I think that as you were brave enough to post here I should be brave enough to give the benefit of my experience. In my case it was my wife who tried for many years to get me to moderate my drinking. The problem was that once I had that first drink I would not listen to even the most reasonable requests. I was on a mission to drink and I did.
Like your fiancee I would go for a day or two without a drink but as I say once that first one hit the bloodstream my entire personality changed. I became slightly paranoid and definitely more argumentative. I would be garrulous and often bad mannered and unpleasant.
The problem is that, despite the knowledge of my behaviour in drink and my physical reaction to it, I would not consider abstention. The desire to drink is enormous and will easily outweigh considerations of social, work, and family life.
You say you are going for counselling and I think that that is where you will have the best opportunity to demonstrate and articulate your concerns. When alone with our partners we tend to disregard their concerns on these matters. However in the presence of an independant third party we are far more likely to take notice.
I hope the session goes well and that you are able to get across your views. I also hope that unlike me, and I am sure many other addicts, your fiancee takes full regard of these issues and is able to act on them.
Best wishes
Michael
PS Without wishing to worry you, the act of hiding drink is a big issue. In my case I hid drink to get around what I perceived as nagging attempts to interfere with my drinking.
Like your fiancee I would go for a day or two without a drink but as I say once that first one hit the bloodstream my entire personality changed. I became slightly paranoid and definitely more argumentative. I would be garrulous and often bad mannered and unpleasant.
The problem is that, despite the knowledge of my behaviour in drink and my physical reaction to it, I would not consider abstention. The desire to drink is enormous and will easily outweigh considerations of social, work, and family life.
You say you are going for counselling and I think that that is where you will have the best opportunity to demonstrate and articulate your concerns. When alone with our partners we tend to disregard their concerns on these matters. However in the presence of an independant third party we are far more likely to take notice.
I hope the session goes well and that you are able to get across your views. I also hope that unlike me, and I am sure many other addicts, your fiancee takes full regard of these issues and is able to act on them.
Best wishes
Michael
PS Without wishing to worry you, the act of hiding drink is a big issue. In my case I hid drink to get around what I perceived as nagging attempts to interfere with my drinking.
Straight shooter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pontiac, Michigan
Posts: 30
She needs help & if you truley love her then stick with her & help her through.....its a sickness that people can overcome.....someday with help she'll look back & love you for helping her thru.
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