Anna

I was fascinated to see James Frey on Oprah this week, after just finishing (with great difficulty) 'A Million Little Pieces'.

James used drugs (any and all) and alcohol very heavily from age 10 to 23. He was lucky to be alive when he entered rehab and lucky to live through rehab.

The fascinating thing is that he broke all the rules and has been sober for 13 years. He steadfastly refused to deal with AA at all, ever and has NO belief in a higher power of any kind. When he left rehab, he went directly to a bar, ordered a large drink and stared at it, but didn't drink it.

He has gotten through this by:

1) letting go of his fear - he says what he did to himself is far worse than anything anyone could do to him.

2) by 'holding on' - when things are bad, they won't stay that way and you will feel better

I'd love to hear people's comments on this!

tuffenuff

We are more powerful than we give ourselves credit for. AA/NA are NOT necessary for recovery. Good for James!
~Melanie~

minnie

*places tongue firmly in cheek*

He can't really be in recovery, can he?

Five

Actually, speaking of rules: most alcoholics who quit, quit alone – with no treatment at all. They merely “grow out of” their addictions. Many scientific studies confirm this.

It is not surprising to me. My recovery is little or no method at all, let alone divine intervention – just, instead, choosing to get on with my life as best I can.

In AA rooms a higher power does the healing. What about those who were praying, religious people in cancer wards? In Nazi war camps? Who are dying of poverty? How come their ethereal pleas are not heard, but alcoholics sat in basement are? If someone in AA could answer me that…

Which only indicates to me how AA operates as a group dynamic – the healing, if any – is in the group – not in “higher powers” at all.

Surprised? Quite the opposite. To members of AA those are the rules, if your not in AA: there are no rules.

tuffenuff

Well said Five. Do what works for you. We are not all cookie cutter copies, nor should our individual recoveries be.

Five

By the way Anna - what a qoute at the bottom of your posts! So true.

Chy

Gosh there are so many threads on this I should make a sticky somewhere! *LOL*... I actually enjoyed the book and the interview. I brought the book to school today to let one of my Super Seniors borrow it. He's been in and out of rehab, NA, Juvy, ..has felony crime and only 17, he's smart, very smart but realizes he's got a problem and just not ready.. so I thought I'd share a little of his potential future with him.

fraankie

that's a good point
lots of us just grow up
of course, there is no way to calculate how many
do it without a rehab, program, support, etc
good for james

Mogqua

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51anna

1) letting go of his fear - he says what he did to himself is far worse than anything anyone could do to him.

2) by 'holding on' - when things are bad, they won't stay that way and you will feel better

Wow, two things that are taught in AA!

Imagine what he could do if he chose to learn even more!

Regardless of where it comes from, furthering your knowledge of and growing in more principles gives more freedom than the "bars behind the eyes" narrow thinking of whiteknuckling it.

I congratulate him on his abstinence and choice of recovery level.
I feel somewhat sorry for him though.
And it's not about refusing AA or any other twelve-step group.
It's about keeping such a closed mind that he never realizes that there is so much more.
That there are others that don't use AA or it's similars and been able to increase their experience to free themself to new worlds of possibilities.

All will be fine until a fear comes along that won't let go of him or when holding on seems to be an eternity never conceived of before.
He depends on this box of safety that becomes his jail.
It's like playing with a 600 pound gorrilla.
Your not done until he says so.

He hasn't broken any rule.
He's just a little slower than most at accepting his commonality.

Be Well

Dan

Well, I've never sat in a cancer ward, praying for the malignant cells to somehow stop eating away at me. Nor have I had the misfortune of experiencing Treblinka or Dachau; so I really can't answer for people who've experienced that.
But I've known poverty, in several forms.
And the most insidious of these was borne of my alcoholism. Aside from the monetary shortages I, along with my ex wife and children, lived through because of my careless behavior, the spiritual poverty I developed through my years of chronic alcoholism ranks right up there with it.

I've not yet read the book by Frey, but rather everything I can get my hands on written about it.
It's a hot ticket at the local library.

So to answer your question, Five, my desire for sobriety found its outlet, its expression and revelation, in a basement with others like me.
Nothing ethereal, nor other worldly.
I found a measure of healing in AA, by acknowleging my behaviors and coming to believe I could become accountable and respectable, once again.

CarolD

to anyone who finds their answer to sobriety!

FaeryQueen

Quote:

I congratulate him on his abstinence and choice of recovery level.
I feel somewhat sorry for him though.
And it's not about refusing AA or any other twelve-step group.
It's about keeping such a closed mind that he never realizes that there is so much more.
That there are others that don't use AA or it's similars and been able to increase their experience to free themself to new worlds of possibilities.

Mogqua....that was well said.

I agree. There is much more to AA than letting go of fear and attachment to the everyday. The level of surrender, peace, understanding, wisdom, clarity that comes as a result of the ancient spiritual principles of AA and the 12 steps is unfathomable for most.

Do you ever feel a little guilty because you have this wonderful way of interacting with the world...that so many people will probably never be able to experience? I do.

I also wonder if he works with other addicts and alcoholics? Sponsorship is such an incredible gift.

It is an assumption to say he is white-knuckling though......I didn't see him on the show....so I don't know if he had that glint in his eye that the truly recovered have or not.

Mogqua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five

My recovery is little or no method at all,

In AA rooms a higher power does the healing. What about those who were praying, religious people in cancer wards? In Nazi war camps? Who are dying of poverty? How come their ethereal pleas are not heard, but alcoholics sat in basement are? If someone in AA could answer me that…

Which only indicates to me how AA operates as a group dynamic – the healing, if any – is in the group – not in “higher powers” at all.

Surprised? Quite the opposite. To members of AA those are the rules, if your not in AA: there are no rules.

Five:
Actually in AA there are only suggestions which you can take or leave by your choice.
The AA books say that a higher power can be the group or any other conception that works for you.
It is suggested that it should be something outside of yourself, since your history has proven that you (we) have not kept us from our behaving the way we do.

In AA, we are not "healed" or "cured."
All we have is a daily reprive... One day at a time.

And to have no method at all by closing your ears and eyes to prior experience whether it's AA, SMART, LIFERING or even your own library and journaling in devolping a method would surely accelerate your "recovery."

The simple unrealized logic is that if you need nothing or no one then what are you doing here?

Now who is to say that God didn't hear and answer those prayers of the poor and oppressed just because it doesn't fit your understanding?

Many in AA will tell you that their prayers were answered, but not the way they thought they would be.

Now those that look for the proof that something doesn't work will find it in themselves.
Equally, those that look for proof that it does work will find in themself too.

And this is true of any program here. (IMO)

Be Well

Anna

UNBELIEVEABLE!

MOQQUA,

Did you watch the interview on the Oprah show where James talked about his commonality with other addicts or read his book where he accepts wholeheartedly that he is an addict? You think he could do more? Let's see he's 35 yrs old, has been married for 5 yrs, has a baby, has written an international, runaway best-seller and has his second book 'My Friend Leonard' out on bookshelves now too. How much better do you think he could do?

FAERY QUEEN,

did you watch the Oprah show where in fact, he helped, one-on-one, another woman begin her journey in rehab? Did you read his book in which he helped others in rehab with him, on their journeys?

minnie

This is a fascinating thread. There seems to be a train of thought that all addicts/alcoholics know nothing about values and spirituality before they get into recovery. How's about if some weren't starting from scratch and simply needed to hit a bottom before those spiritual principles were brought into focus?

FaeryQueen

No I stated in my post that I did not see him on Oprah.

Hmmmm....maybe that is why I asked the question.

Sponsorship has been a great joy in my life and I simply wondered if he has been able to experience anything similar in regards to completing the circle.

Cheers

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FaeryQueen

Most excellent point Minnie!!!

I had practiced meditation for many years. I knew all the different methods. I had alot of knowledge about Buddhism, Taoism, Gnosticism, Kabbalah.......

You name it!

The key I was missing was PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the vast knowledge I had in my head.

I did not know how to pragmatically apply spiritual principles to my everyday affairs.

That is what I have learned to do in AA. It worked for me!

Chy

I'm with Anna. What I don't understand when "discussing" a member of recovery who has 13 years of sobriety who are we to say he may perhaps be spirtitually unfit, narrow minded? Come on now, 13 years of sobriety, working on his own pain and addiction by sharing it with the world? He made the choice to not follow the suggestions of AA, so what? Some just don't want what is offered, so we condem them? BS!

Dan

Precisely
The man is sharing how he's been sober.
Does my sobriety allow me to hear him?
That, my friends, is the question

Mogqua

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51anna

UNBELIEVEABLE! MOQQUA,
You think he could do more?

It's not about doing, but being.
Activites and striving for acomplishments are often the facade to hide the "bars behind the eyes" or "blinders."
"White-knuckling" is also holding on to things that bind us to fear of change.

And there are those that equally found rehab by the drunk on skidrow.
Thats only a begining.


It is clear to me by experience of living the same thing of acomplishments and activity.
I see in him what I once was and have outgrown.


Be Well