James Frey Breaks the Rules
Dreamlike...Now
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 707
Don,
I certainly have a lot of respect for your opinions, but that arguement is laughable.
Oprah is certainly a pillar of society, quite talented, and quite rich....dollarwise and in personal character. In fact if I were the type of gal who needed a hero I just might pick her.
First of all she has already had an impact on substance abuse. In fact, I was watching her alcoholic mothers episode right before I ended up in the ER. Did that Oprah show give me a powerful, practical, supportive, open-minded method to help me recover from alcholism? NO.
However, I did found out how to make low-fat cherry cheesecake.
I am also trying to imagine some of the old-timers in my home group watching Oprah to stay sober!
I certainly have a lot of respect for your opinions, but that arguement is laughable.
Oprah is certainly a pillar of society, quite talented, and quite rich....dollarwise and in personal character. In fact if I were the type of gal who needed a hero I just might pick her.
First of all she has already had an impact on substance abuse. In fact, I was watching her alcoholic mothers episode right before I ended up in the ER. Did that Oprah show give me a powerful, practical, supportive, open-minded method to help me recover from alcholism? NO.
However, I did found out how to make low-fat cherry cheesecake.
I am also trying to imagine some of the old-timers in my home group watching Oprah to stay sober!
Community Greeter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mid-Life Express
Posts: 9,930
I have great respect for anyone who has 13 years whatever method they use. Superior or judgemental comments will never detract from this man's success. I applaud him. Thanks Anna for bringing this to our attention.
indigo
indigo
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
please note the 'for better or worse'....
Actually, I think what she can do is get someone who is on the edge of considering looking into maybe possibly considering that they might conceivably have a bit of a problem with alcohol to consider maybe going to one of those 'groups' that they've heard a little bit about. We all started somewhere, right?
Or, to put it within the framework of the classic 'stages of change', she can help nudge people from 'pre-contemplation' to 'contemplation' about recovery.
I'm told she's had plenty of 12-step folks on her program. I don't know, because the few times I've watched her for even a few minutes I find my temples start throbbing and my brain feels as though it's shrinking and I have to flee the room.
Don
Actually, I think what she can do is get someone who is on the edge of considering looking into maybe possibly considering that they might conceivably have a bit of a problem with alcohol to consider maybe going to one of those 'groups' that they've heard a little bit about. We all started somewhere, right?
Or, to put it within the framework of the classic 'stages of change', she can help nudge people from 'pre-contemplation' to 'contemplation' about recovery.
I'm told she's had plenty of 12-step folks on her program. I don't know, because the few times I've watched her for even a few minutes I find my temples start throbbing and my brain feels as though it's shrinking and I have to flee the room.
Don
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Recoveryville, USA
Posts: 1,297
Im rather late to this thread (That damn hurricane, ya know)...so if this has already been said,,forgive me.
Here is my 2 cents (American)........
Abstinence is NOT sobriety, imho.
Abstinence is not ingesting addictive, toxic chemicals.
Sobriety is everything that comes after.............
Just this gal's opinion.
Here is my 2 cents (American)........
Abstinence is NOT sobriety, imho.
Abstinence is not ingesting addictive, toxic chemicals.
Sobriety is everything that comes after.............
Just this gal's opinion.
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by Don S
times I've watched... I find my temples start throbbing...
Don
Don
She sounds like any other crackhead I've had to kick out of hotel rooms.
With a fan base feigning depth by expounding their belief in the 'STAR' and "National Enquirer."
And then they fall asleep.
~~
So back to the topic.
He broke all the rules?
Rather absolute way to start.
What rules? AA? AA has only one rule
~ Rule 62 ~
A reminder to what rules get us.
Hey, he went to rehab. A 12 Step rehab. Hazelden 12 Step.
He 'survived' it, he didn't walk out on it.
He buys a drink and doesn't drink it.
Well something caught in there.
He uses two techniques taught in rehab.
Claims he didn't learn what they taught.
His action gives them credit and his voice destroys his credability.
Congratulations on his abstinence.
How about some AM or REBT for those other issues?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jasper, GA
Posts: 239
I would like to think that in some small way I have helped some folks find their path to sobriety, but from what I have seen and read of Jim Frey I don't even scratch the surface of what he has done.
Whether you agree with his "program" (and there IS a program, though unconventional) or not, his story in the book of his life BEFORE recovery is one of the most powerful and compelling ones I have ever read. Ir really is not much different than most of ours, but it is conveyed more understandably than most of us could do...and that helps every addict/alcoholic, not yet reaching out, that happens upon the book, to know that no matter how bad it is, they can recover. It also helps family members that simply either don't have a clue, or that try to understand, but can't.
My program is therapy and AA. It has given me 17 months of sobriety when I work the program, and two weeks of hell until a week ago if I didn't work the program...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS. His obviously does, for him.
As for the helping others part of AA's program, I'd say he has helped more, far more, with that book than most of us.
BubbaBob
Whether you agree with his "program" (and there IS a program, though unconventional) or not, his story in the book of his life BEFORE recovery is one of the most powerful and compelling ones I have ever read. Ir really is not much different than most of ours, but it is conveyed more understandably than most of us could do...and that helps every addict/alcoholic, not yet reaching out, that happens upon the book, to know that no matter how bad it is, they can recover. It also helps family members that simply either don't have a clue, or that try to understand, but can't.
My program is therapy and AA. It has given me 17 months of sobriety when I work the program, and two weeks of hell until a week ago if I didn't work the program...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS. His obviously does, for him.
As for the helping others part of AA's program, I'd say he has helped more, far more, with that book than most of us.
BubbaBob
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Mogqua
His action gives them credit and his voice destroys his credability.
From the Language of the Heart...
But many would not return with us. They said, “Let’s stay here and sort over those damned coins. We’ll pick only the ones that carry lucky inscriptions. For instance, those that say, ‘Power’ and ‘Glory’ and ‘Righteousness.’ You fellows are going to be sorry you didn’t stick around.” Not strangely, it was years before this part of our original company returned to the Highway.
Bill Wilson
Bill Wilson
He found a way and he's sharing it.
I might not like what I hear, but man, I hope I can at least be detached enough from myself to look at his message and find the keys offered.
What if his coins buy him something useful to manage his life?
Still haven't read the book.
Back to my corner.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by minnie
This is a fascinating thread. There seems to be a train of thought that all addicts/alcoholics know nothing about values and spirituality before they get into recovery. How's about if some weren't starting from scratch and simply needed to hit a bottom before those spiritual principles were brought into focus?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Mogqua
It's not about doing, but being.
Activites and striving for acomplishments are often the facade to hide the "bars behind the eyes" or "blinders."
"White-knuckling" is also holding on to things that bind us to fear of change.
And there are those that equally found rehab by the drunk on skidrow.
Thats only a begining.
It is clear to me by experience of living the same thing of acomplishments and activity.
I see in him what I once was and have outgrown.
Be Well
Such a patronising tone. I suggest you look up the word "logic" in the dictionary.
Just because the sun rises today, does not mean it will rise tommorrow.
Your largely holistic writings are, to some, are exactly the reason why most leave AA.
----
""White-knuckling" is also holding on to things that bind us to fear of change.
Who says?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Chy
Well my sobriety surely does Dan! That for me is the day I quit growng. When I quit being open minded to how others have achieved sobriety with their addiction. When I am on a quest of knowledge of how addicts and alcoholics deal with it there can never be enough resources for the next person coming through the door. For me as an individual that is huge. First I extedend the hand of AA, if it's rejected I offer another suggestion. Because of my ability to be in constant search of other methods for other people like James who did it his way with his belief and power found in the Tao it's just another tool in the box to offer the next person still looking for an answer.
Yes I am a member of the fellowship of AA and one of the first things I learned was to be Open minded.
Yes I am a member of the fellowship of AA and one of the first things I learned was to be Open minded.
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by minnie
And are often a result of a new zest for life when the bottom has been reached.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Mogqua
I might add that its real basis is thousands of years old and AA strived to find "universal principles" to live by and that it claims no monopoly on it.
It doesn't matter where you get it, so long as you get it.
Maybe reverse the "you" to "I", like Bill suggests.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Mogqua
Well, after reading numerous reviews on a few sites about this book, I have to say I wouldn't waste my time.
The general concenus is that it is "400 pages of raged filled fantasy, egotistical and poorly written."
Most found it tedious and unbelievable.
A couple good reviews but most were laughing at its ridiculousness.
This, along with what I see as obvious contradictions in his logic leads me to believe that reading about his predominate problem with very little solution would not even prove to be good as a cathardic venture.
I should like to suggest finding books that center more on the solution and less on a "Look at me, I won't listen to anyone" problem personality.
Just my opinion, but I won't waste the money or time on it.
Thanks for inspiring me to check it out 51Anna.
Be Well
The general concenus is that it is "400 pages of raged filled fantasy, egotistical and poorly written."
Most found it tedious and unbelievable.
A couple good reviews but most were laughing at its ridiculousness.
This, along with what I see as obvious contradictions in his logic leads me to believe that reading about his predominate problem with very little solution would not even prove to be good as a cathardic venture.
I should like to suggest finding books that center more on the solution and less on a "Look at me, I won't listen to anyone" problem personality.
Just my opinion, but I won't waste the money or time on it.
Thanks for inspiring me to check it out 51Anna.
Be Well
Not the center of the Universe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Orchard Lake, Michigan
Posts: 974
Originally Posted by BubbaBob
...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS.
I have to agree that any program that works for an individual is program that individual should be working. Isn't that the point behind the often asked question "So how is your program working for you?"
One Love, One Heart,
Tony
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by findingout
Now that does not sound like an easier, softer way to me, but I have to admit that I've never actually tried it
I have to agree that any program that works for an individual is program that individual should be working. Isn't that the point behind the often asked question "So how is your program working for you?"
One Love, One Heart,
Tony
I have to agree that any program that works for an individual is program that individual should be working. Isn't that the point behind the often asked question "So how is your program working for you?"
One Love, One Heart,
Tony
Not the center of the Universe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Orchard Lake, Michigan
Posts: 974
Originally Posted by Five
A point, thankfully, asked only by AA members. I am thankful that I have no friends who are patronising enough to ask me "how my programme is working for me".
All of us do the best we can with what we have available and I truly appreciate when anyone shares what works for them because I certainly didn't get where I am today all by myself.
One Love, One Heart,
Tony
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by BubbaBob
(and there IS a program, though unconventional)
It also helps family members that simply either don't have a clue, or that try to understand, but can't.
...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS. His obviously does, for him.
BubbaBob
It also helps family members that simply either don't have a clue, or that try to understand, but can't.
...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS. His obviously does, for him.
BubbaBob
Much like many beginning fourth steps I've read.
Just as lenghty and just as angry.
Although it lacks clarity.
His attempts at "unringing that bell" of going to a rehab rings ever louder.
A letigious logic sees it for what it is and isn't and tells the observer that everything else from that point on is an emotional opinion with no factual basis.
But on these other two points I agree with you.
I noticed that the best reviews were written by 'codies' seeking the vicarious experience and that is something.
Since I don't need vicarious experiences of this type I would be in the group of "been there, done that, no need to go back."
I also agree that ANY program you work will work if you want it to work.
And about him helping more than any of us?
That really can't be known, now can it?
There is no real way to find out either.
Now two books I keep hearing over and over that have seemed to help many more are:
"A New Pair of Glasses" By Chuck C.
(AA member) of which I have read and don't necessarily agree whole-heartedly with, but still a good read.
AND:
"Drinking: A Love Story" By Caroline Knapp
(A non AA member) of which I have only read many excerpts and found them to be insightful and well written.
I will eventually buy that book.
~~~~~~~~~~
To those that feel "patonized and threatened," you will have to take responsibilty for your own feelings and stop blaming others for them.
When viewed objectively I am considered by most as pro-logic and pro-recovery, regardless of method.
Not a fundamentalist to any per se.
Bitter or better is a choice. Your choice.
But y'all keep coming back and in the meen time,
think it through,
think beyond,
and...
Be Well.
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