Opinions-Is this disease hereditary?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mesquite TX
Posts: 244
I have alcoholism. i diagnosed myself by trying to stop on my own and continuing to go back to it. I went to AA and went in and out for a long time. while going in and out I was constantly asking the question, " why am I an alcoholic?" The answer is......IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY.
If I got it from mom or dad or off the toilet seat it just doesn't matter. On August 2, 1992 the only question that mattered was I am a sick and sorry drunk and druggy, what am I going to do about it? In the 4805 days {thats a little over 13 years} since my last drink or drug it still does not matter why I was the way I was, whether you call it a desease or not, the fact remains that I can not drink or take drugs and have a life worth living.
I found a design for living that works for me in the fellowship of AA.
If I got it from mom or dad or off the toilet seat it just doesn't matter. On August 2, 1992 the only question that mattered was I am a sick and sorry drunk and druggy, what am I going to do about it? In the 4805 days {thats a little over 13 years} since my last drink or drug it still does not matter why I was the way I was, whether you call it a desease or not, the fact remains that I can not drink or take drugs and have a life worth living.
I found a design for living that works for me in the fellowship of AA.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
My Jury is still out on this.
Is it important? Why for sure: it has moral, philosophical, spiritual, pschological connetations. How we understand ourselves is essential. The idea of not trying to figure out anything to do with our past is demented. I for one need to process a largely confusing part of my life...
Is it important? Why for sure: it has moral, philosophical, spiritual, pschological connetations. How we understand ourselves is essential. The idea of not trying to figure out anything to do with our past is demented. I for one need to process a largely confusing part of my life...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
I once called Stanton Peele a dodgy bloke. After reading much of his work my opinion is changing. He sees the problem on the largest scale possible and hones right down to the individuals pschology. I would urge anyone to read his work - he certainly has helped me gauge a rational and hopeful view of my "problem".
The Meaning of Addiction is an outstanding book, especially the last few paragraphs.
The Meaning of Addiction is an outstanding book, especially the last few paragraphs.
Been there and done.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Coast North America
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by chris k
I have alcoholism. i diagnosed myself by trying to stop on my own and continuing to go back to it. I went to AA and went in and out for a long time. while going in and out I was constantly asking the question, " why am I an alcoholic?" The answer is......IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY.
If I got it from mom or dad or off the toilet seat it just doesn't matter. On August 2, 1992 the only question that mattered was I am a sick and sorry drunk and druggy, what am I going to do about it? In the 4805 days {thats a little over 13 years} since my last drink or drug it still does not matter why I was the way I was, whether you call it a desease or not, the fact remains that I can not drink or take drugs and have a life worth living.
I found a design for living that works for me in the fellowship of AA.
If I got it from mom or dad or off the toilet seat it just doesn't matter. On August 2, 1992 the only question that mattered was I am a sick and sorry drunk and druggy, what am I going to do about it? In the 4805 days {thats a little over 13 years} since my last drink or drug it still does not matter why I was the way I was, whether you call it a desease or not, the fact remains that I can not drink or take drugs and have a life worth living.
I found a design for living that works for me in the fellowship of AA.
Second, I refuse to turn off my mind at the door of the meeting. I feel that one of the things that makes us human is the ability and freedom to ask why and how. Why should we put our addiction in a black box and say that it is out of bounds of analysis and interpretation?
Meetings, including AA meetings, are an important part of my recovery plan ongoing. However, when I am told that I may have trouble with the program because I think too much, I have studied too much, or I am too analytical, I get uncomfortable if not downright scared.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Genetics, gaba receptors, etc.
I read a dozen studies that prove the alcoholic gene has been found.
I've also read a dozen studies that prove we're going to be looking for a very long time before we find it.
If it exists.
I like the way Chris says he diagnosed himself. I did too. Countless times.
Alcoholics galore in my immediate family. Most of my uncles. My mother, to some extent. Yet, my mom's nephew Michael, son of my uncle Wilfrid, never developed alcoholic drinking.
Why me, and not him?
Dunno.
My children now...
How could I possibly show them the dangers of alcoholism, other than by trying to educate them as best I can on the circumstances and condition of their father? I can't see their DNA. But I can surely see their behavior and their patterns.
For all we know, the so called alcoholic gene is recessive, much like the gene that decides weather our kids will have the blue eyes of their parents or grandparents.
My children both have my eyes.
The same brownish, greenish hue that is so common.
I read a dozen studies that prove the alcoholic gene has been found.
I've also read a dozen studies that prove we're going to be looking for a very long time before we find it.
If it exists.
I like the way Chris says he diagnosed himself. I did too. Countless times.
Alcoholics galore in my immediate family. Most of my uncles. My mother, to some extent. Yet, my mom's nephew Michael, son of my uncle Wilfrid, never developed alcoholic drinking.
Why me, and not him?
Dunno.
My children now...
How could I possibly show them the dangers of alcoholism, other than by trying to educate them as best I can on the circumstances and condition of their father? I can't see their DNA. But I can surely see their behavior and their patterns.
For all we know, the so called alcoholic gene is recessive, much like the gene that decides weather our kids will have the blue eyes of their parents or grandparents.
My children both have my eyes.
The same brownish, greenish hue that is so common.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kingston, NY
Posts: 390
I think there is room for many views on alcoholism/addiction... *if* you are sober and committed to staying that way. To borrow an AA-ism I've heard - take what you need and leave the rest. Chris, as an individual human being, finds it unnecessary to know the origin/cause of his addiction. That's what works for him, as an individual. Millwall, on the other hand, has a personality that needs to know the why's behind the addiction - and that's what has been working for *him*, as an individual. Discussing the various views of addiction can be an interesting exercise. However, it all comes down to the same thing, in my opinion - are you sober? Are you doing work that will help you - as an individual - stay that way? Getting your back up because someone doesn't view things the same way you do is a waste of energy. We all see the world through different eyes - it's only logical that we would go about our individual recoveries in different ways. It's a beautiful thing, really.
just my opinion.
--anne
just my opinion.
--anne
Been there and done.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Coast North America
Posts: 269
Anne, really well put. We need to use whatever tools we have been given to get through life's challenges. These tools would include our own unique perspectives on life.
If we get confrontational when people have beliefs different from our own, we may as well go back to the age of Religious Wars. Er....wait a minute.....
If we get confrontational when people have beliefs different from our own, we may as well go back to the age of Religious Wars. Er....wait a minute.....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jasper, GA
Posts: 239
While I appreciate Mil's perspective, for a freshly recovering alcoholic/addict, I think the "whys" can be deadly.
For years, people laid on a psych's couch, an hour a day, 5 days a week, and worked really hard to discover WHY they were so screwed up. It was accepted psycotherapy...insurance companies paid THOUSANDS of dollars for their customers to lay on that couch.
At the end...after 5 years of laying on that couch, you know what we had? Lots of people who knew PRECISLY why they were screwed up, but had made no behavioral changes to act differently.
WHY I'm a drunk is something I may investigate as a way to pass time in my old age. Knowing that I am, and must change behaviors to live to that old age is something I must do now so I have time to spend on the WHYS. One doesn't have to know why they are self destructive to know they must quit the behavior.
BubbaBob
For years, people laid on a psych's couch, an hour a day, 5 days a week, and worked really hard to discover WHY they were so screwed up. It was accepted psycotherapy...insurance companies paid THOUSANDS of dollars for their customers to lay on that couch.
At the end...after 5 years of laying on that couch, you know what we had? Lots of people who knew PRECISLY why they were screwed up, but had made no behavioral changes to act differently.
WHY I'm a drunk is something I may investigate as a way to pass time in my old age. Knowing that I am, and must change behaviors to live to that old age is something I must do now so I have time to spend on the WHYS. One doesn't have to know why they are self destructive to know they must quit the behavior.
BubbaBob
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by BubbaBob
...snip...
For years, people laid on a psych's couch, an hour a day, 5 days a week, and worked really hard to discover WHY they were so screwed up. It was accepted psycotherapy...insurance companies paid THOUSANDS of dollars for their customers to lay on that couch.
At the end...after 5 years of laying on that couch, you know what we had? Lots of people who knew PRECISLY why they were screwed up, but had made no behavioral changes to act differently.
...snip...
BubbaBob
For years, people laid on a psych's couch, an hour a day, 5 days a week, and worked really hard to discover WHY they were so screwed up. It was accepted psycotherapy...insurance companies paid THOUSANDS of dollars for their customers to lay on that couch.
At the end...after 5 years of laying on that couch, you know what we had? Lots of people who knew PRECISLY why they were screwed up, but had made no behavioral changes to act differently.
...snip...
BubbaBob
Don S
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mesquite TX
Posts: 244
This is not ment to be confrontational, How will you be able to spare your son pain with this knowlege?
As I said in my previous post, I spent alot of time looking into why I had the problems in my life that I had.I didnt list them before, sorry about that I will now. I saw counsolors,therapists,clergyto help me understand my problem. I also had observed the my family. I saw the whole spectrum from non-drinkers to family members that died of serosis of the liver. There were heavy drinkers that just stopped. Some went to church. some went to AA,some sought medical help etc. My conclusion was that my family like the rest of the world around me had many different solutions. Grandma M. used to tell me when I was little not to drink, because I'd become an alkie like grandpa. Grandma K. would give us kids a totty when we had a cold. Grandpa M. died drunk, Grandpa K. died sober. All this information gathered over 25 years was good information but did not help me stop drinking. It did not stop me from starting to drink either.
Since my first meeting in AA in 1979 i have seen the children of drunks watch their parents tear up their lives,and then get sober. I have seen these same kids, after living thru their parents dinking and sobering up, go right ahead and drink themselves. Alot of them when they were younger said they would never drink, imagine that.
I hope this will clear up any misconception that I didnt give the subject any thought, that I just blindly went along with what I was told. What I came to understand was that all this information didnt help me solve the problem once I had it. The question that had to be answered if I was going to have a life worth living was what am I going to do about my drinking? What changes am I willing to make in my lifestyle in order to not drink?
If anyone new to recovery wants to go thru the exersise of looking at all these questions, I say GREAT! Go for it. The oldtimers told me the answers I needed to hear along time before I could hear them. Thats my opinion, I could be wrong.
As I said in my previous post, I spent alot of time looking into why I had the problems in my life that I had.I didnt list them before, sorry about that I will now. I saw counsolors,therapists,clergyto help me understand my problem. I also had observed the my family. I saw the whole spectrum from non-drinkers to family members that died of serosis of the liver. There were heavy drinkers that just stopped. Some went to church. some went to AA,some sought medical help etc. My conclusion was that my family like the rest of the world around me had many different solutions. Grandma M. used to tell me when I was little not to drink, because I'd become an alkie like grandpa. Grandma K. would give us kids a totty when we had a cold. Grandpa M. died drunk, Grandpa K. died sober. All this information gathered over 25 years was good information but did not help me stop drinking. It did not stop me from starting to drink either.
Since my first meeting in AA in 1979 i have seen the children of drunks watch their parents tear up their lives,and then get sober. I have seen these same kids, after living thru their parents dinking and sobering up, go right ahead and drink themselves. Alot of them when they were younger said they would never drink, imagine that.
I hope this will clear up any misconception that I didnt give the subject any thought, that I just blindly went along with what I was told. What I came to understand was that all this information didnt help me solve the problem once I had it. The question that had to be answered if I was going to have a life worth living was what am I going to do about my drinking? What changes am I willing to make in my lifestyle in order to not drink?
If anyone new to recovery wants to go thru the exersise of looking at all these questions, I say GREAT! Go for it. The oldtimers told me the answers I needed to hear along time before I could hear them. Thats my opinion, I could be wrong.
Originally Posted by AndrewBeen
I strongly disagree. First, I have a son and I want to know to what degree genetics is putting him at risk. If I can spare him any of the pain I went through I would like to do so.
Second, I refuse to turn off my mind at the door of the meeting. I feel that one of the things that makes us human is the ability and freedom to ask why and how. Why should we put our addiction in a black box and say that it is out of bounds of analysis and interpretation?
Meetings, including AA meetings, are an important part of my recovery plan ongoing. However, when I am told that I may have trouble with the program because I think too much, I have studied too much, or I am too analytical, I get uncomfortable if not downright scared.
Second, I refuse to turn off my mind at the door of the meeting. I feel that one of the things that makes us human is the ability and freedom to ask why and how. Why should we put our addiction in a black box and say that it is out of bounds of analysis and interpretation?
Meetings, including AA meetings, are an important part of my recovery plan ongoing. However, when I am told that I may have trouble with the program because I think too much, I have studied too much, or I am too analytical, I get uncomfortable if not downright scared.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 167
Absolutely. A person is genetically predisposed to become a drunk. Just like genes are passed along in relation to heigth, the same is true among alcoholics. The average height of the males in a family for example is 5'8" and along comes Johnny towering at 6'5". How did Johnny get so tall? Well, he got his gene from his mother's father who was tall also. It makes sense and it has been proven. I can't pinpoint articles on alcoholism and genes, but I have read it.
But on the flipside of this, nobody is Born anything. The environment in which a person exists plays a major role in what he or she becomes. I have gotten into arguments with people about this and it is an endless debate. Are people born gay?
I hear this argument all the time and say BS when someone says it's natural to be gay because they are born that way. Is someone born a mass murderer? No. The environment plays a role, but that person might have a gene that makes them more likely to become whatever.
Nobody was born with a bottle of Jack Daniels in their hands doing shots. But they were born with a constitution which makes them a prime candidate to become a lush if they abuse the bottle where others will not.
But on the flipside of this, nobody is Born anything. The environment in which a person exists plays a major role in what he or she becomes. I have gotten into arguments with people about this and it is an endless debate. Are people born gay?
I hear this argument all the time and say BS when someone says it's natural to be gay because they are born that way. Is someone born a mass murderer? No. The environment plays a role, but that person might have a gene that makes them more likely to become whatever.
Nobody was born with a bottle of Jack Daniels in their hands doing shots. But they were born with a constitution which makes them a prime candidate to become a lush if they abuse the bottle where others will not.
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
I come from a long line of alcoholics, both sides of the family. I'm an alcoholic, but my two sisters are not. Does it matter? No really, not when it comes to my recovery. It makes me wonder however. How can it not be hereditary? I can't help but worry about my children though. I don't want to see them suffer a senseless existence of insanity. When I hear about my 20 year old son going to Canada to drink and blacking out for three hours, yes I worry and feel guilty. Yes, it is his choice to drink. He has know idea, no idea at all where it could lead. I had not a clue drinking would lead me to the depths of h#ll at that age, or older for that matter.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
For me its DEMENTED. Just for me. Some of us need to know different things about our lives. Of course if someone just wants to get on with it, throw themselves into recovoring and not really be concerned with the problem then that is just as positive as someone who has a keen interest in why and how they arrived at the place they are in.
For me, I am using Stanton Peeles book to process and understand (and let go of) a whole messy part of my life. Without his investigation I would still, no doubt, be looking at my past thinking what the hell was THAT all about.
He has helped me. Of course that does not mean everyone should sit down and read his book and expect the same result.
Common sense prevails.
For me, I am using Stanton Peeles book to process and understand (and let go of) a whole messy part of my life. Without his investigation I would still, no doubt, be looking at my past thinking what the hell was THAT all about.
He has helped me. Of course that does not mean everyone should sit down and read his book and expect the same result.
Common sense prevails.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 63
Only really read the first post....Hi Im new! WOO HOO.lol
Anyway it IS genetic because you inherit your body chemistry which decides how your chemistry REACTS to alcohol.
I think the DISEASE concept sucks. It puts people in a mindframe of powerlessness which is totally counterproductive and enables an alcoholic to "live in the diagnosis", thus creating a sort of loop- hole, if ya fall off the wagon...It does kinda soften the blow doesn't it!?
I think maybe it should fall under the catagory of mental illness as opposed to disease. I dunno...that's just a random thought really.
I do hate the disease concept though. Too many reasons to mention here.
SOme other time maybe...lol
-wanderer
Anyway it IS genetic because you inherit your body chemistry which decides how your chemistry REACTS to alcohol.
I think the DISEASE concept sucks. It puts people in a mindframe of powerlessness which is totally counterproductive and enables an alcoholic to "live in the diagnosis", thus creating a sort of loop- hole, if ya fall off the wagon...It does kinda soften the blow doesn't it!?
I think maybe it should fall under the catagory of mental illness as opposed to disease. I dunno...that's just a random thought really.
I do hate the disease concept though. Too many reasons to mention here.
SOme other time maybe...lol
-wanderer
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